Paul_D_North_Jr Extraversion <====> Introversion (E or/ vs. I) Sensing <====> INtuition (S or/ vs. N) Thinking <====> Feeling (T or/ vs. F) Judging <====> Perceiving (J or/ vs. P)
Extraversion <====> Introversion (E or/ vs. I)
Sensing <====> INtuition (S or/ vs. N)
Thinking <====> Feeling (T or/ vs. F)
Judging <====> Perceiving (J or/ vs. P)
I took the test and was told I was a "JPN".
They seemed reluctant to tell me what that meant.
I pressed them for an explanation.
They said it meant "Just Plain Nuts".
Or: "He warp !" - from a science fiction short story by Kurt Vonnegut Jr. (?) like 35 or 40 years ago.
Paul_D_North_Jr Hey Murphy - How'd you get that out of my personnel file ?!? You keep reading stuff like that, we'll have to throw you outta here !!! Actually, you beat me to it - that's a thread topic I've had in mind for a while. Except that I was going to frame it around the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator ("MBTI") or "personality type", which is based on the following 4 scales and dichotomies (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator ): Extraversion <====> Introversion (E or/ vs. I) Sensing <====> INtuition (S or/ vs. N) Thinking <====> Feeling (T or/ vs. F) Judging <====> Perceiving (J or/ vs. P) My wife and her study group prefers to analyze such things with the "9 types" of the "Enneagram of Personality". See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enneagram_of_Personality and http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ and http://www.9types.com , etc. Then there's always horoscopes, ouija boards, voodoo, . . . - Paul North. (an MBTI "INTJ" - 2.1 %).
Hey Murphy - How'd you get that out of my personnel file ?!?
You keep reading stuff like that, we'll have to throw you outta here !!!
Actually, you beat me to it - that's a thread topic I've had in mind for a while. Except that I was going to frame it around the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator ("MBTI") or "personality type", which is based on the following 4 scales and dichotomies (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator ):
My wife and her study group prefers to analyze such things with the "9 types" of the "Enneagram of Personality". See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enneagram_of_Personality and http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/ and http://www.9types.com , etc.
Then there's always horoscopes, ouija boards, voodoo, . . .
- Paul North. (an MBTI "INTJ" - 2.1 %).
It seems to me that perceiving can only occur through the means of sensing, intuition, thinking, or feeling. And moreover, none of those four can occur without perceiving. So why is perceiving a stand-alone item as contrasted to judging?
Oh NO, you are trying to insert logic into this thread.
john_edwards It seems to me that perceiving can only occur through the means of sensing, intuition, thinking, or feeling. And moreover, none of those four can occur without perceiving. So why is perceiving a stand-alone item as contrasted to judging? Oh NO, you are trying to insert logic into this thread.
Well sure......logic works for introverts.....can I think it over, and get back to you?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding Did we all marry extroverts?
No, not all of us married extroverts. At least, I did not. Ricki and I are quite happy at home by ourselves. We are not "party people," and simply do not enjoy idle conversation. We do enjoy the company of some other people (such as Carl and Pat), and when we are traveling we usually enjoy the company of other people in a diner. Indeed, on our last trip, all of our table companions were pleasant company; we even ate with one man twice, on two different trains, and he seemed to enjoy the companionship at both meals. We have had some table companions who were not companionable at all, but such were rare.
At home, Ricki and I are quite happy staying out of each other's way, and Ricki says that she does not regret my having retired (10-2-06).
When I lived in Reform, Alabama, I participated in the activities of the Birmingham chapter of the NRHS, but when we moved here, participation in the local chapter was impracticable for several years, and I simply have not felt moved to participate in recent years. I have really enjoyed the interaction on various threads of the various Trains forums since I started following them, and I regret that I waited as long as I did before taking part. As has been said, we can interact as we see fit, and there is no pressure to participate if we do not want to.
Johnny
BucyrusIt seems to me that perceiving can only occur through the means of sensing, intuition, thinking, or feeling. And moreover, none of those four can occur without perceiving. So why is perceiving a stand-alone item as contrasted to judging?
The MBTI is based on Carl Jung's theories on personality. His assertion was that there are two basic ways to perceive: by intuition and by sensing. Perceiving in turn leads to cognition, and that would be the "thinking" component.
-Crandell
Didn't this thread just start off with a basic question....?
I think it was the book LISTENING TO PROZAC that offered the thesis that many Americans on the drug are (possibly not knowing themselves) medicating their introversion into extraversion. And that in many countries the count is 60 percent intravert, 40 percent extrovert, here in the USA it's the opposite: 60 percent extrovert, 40 percent intravert. I don't know if that thesis works perfectly, but if it did then a fifth of Americans are medicating themselves or otherwise jollying themselves into extraversion -- it needn't be an entire personality change, but Prozac and similar drugs can give a bit of a boost to extraverted tendencies.
I can tell you that if someone (human resource dept. for example), gives you the Myers-Briggs Personality test (sometimes called Personality Inventory), they are checking to see how you rate (this is very general) (1) as Extravert or Intovert, (2) at your decision-making style, (3) at your way of gathering information, and (4) at taking charge or leading people. Big corporations, naturally enough, prefer most of their hirees to be extraverts who enjoy working with people, basing decisions on precedent (NORAC would be one example) rather than self-judgment, and able to fold their experience into all that. They don't always insist on Extraverts, but it is a desire for most job positions.
Introverts, if someone gives you this test, feel free to cheat. The categories possible under Myers-Briggs are polar opposites, but most people are near the dividing line.
OTOH there are so many successful people here who have worked or are working for RR companies, as professionals, in business, etc., that either we can't ALL be introverts or that introverts can be quite flexible depending on circumstance. Some of you want to give up Option Three, 'That Test Is B.S." Actually iIMHO and experience, the testt can work quite well when properly administered, but much of the time it is given (at least here in the USA) the people giving the test and interpreting it don't do it quite right.
If I am accidentally duplicating someone else's information, please forgive me. This topic got hot and caught fire really fast! Murph, did you have any idea how many responses you would get? - al
trainfan1221 Didn't this thread just start off with a basic question....?
selector BucyrusIt seems to me that perceiving can only occur through the means of sensing, intuition, thinking, or feeling. And moreover, none of those four can occur without perceiving. So why is perceiving a stand-alone item as contrasted to judging? The MBTI is based on Carl Jung's theories on personality. His assertion was that there are two basic ways to perceive: by intuition and by sensing. Perceiving in turn leads to cognition, and that would be the "thinking" component. -Crandell
That seems sensible enough, and the terms of the four dichotomies have clear meanings to me. But when I read about the structure and meaning of the whole test, and how the four dichotomies interact with each other, and sometimes reverse their meanings depending the outcome of other dichotomies, I can truly say that I have never seen anything explained in such a confusing way. I don’t trust it.
For one thing the test seems to assume that people can be classified by measuring those personality behavioral characteristics. Yet in many, if not most personalities, I think that those characteristics are actually shifting in strength and dominance all the time.
The inventory, which is what it is legitimately called, is based on a theory, and manifested on the interpretation of the theory that Myers and Briggs, Mother and daugher team IIRC, filtered through their biases and limitations (and learning, to be fair) to derive something that they enjoyed and that made sense to them. Neither person had any graduate training in statistical analysis, and none in psychology's relevant field of "Personality". The senior partner did avail herself of expert advice and guidance in running the tests of significance, validity and reliability on the data.
Unfortunately, despite all the analysis, the theory is suspect, so the validity of the inventory (i.e., that it measures what it purports to measure) is doubtful. Any derived results should never be used for selection purposes (this from a fellow whose user-name is selector because that is what I did for a living at one time). If it were a good predicitve inventory, it would be used more widely. But no schools of any repute use it to select their candidates, and the Canadian Armed Forces has no use for it...period. For any organization to deny employment (a chance to earn a living) on the basis of the results is, in my opinion, unethical.
What we don't know is how the results can be correlated with "self-selection" in terms of what people will do if given the option. For example, relevant to Norris' question at the outset, do many more introverts than extraverts elect to build layouts and run trains, or maybe just lurk or participate on forums and groups here and there? As a whole, do "model railroaders", or "railfans", or "foamers" gravitate to groups where they actually belong to a club and participate and socialize if they show a preference (the correct terminology in MBTI-speak) for extraversion over introverson? Maybe there is no statistical difference. If so, then it would cast some doubt on the efficacy of the model. If the construct called "introversion" is valid, and if accurately characterized by those measuring it with any given instrument, then one would expect more extraverts than introverts to routinely appear at club meetings, and the introverts to cackle at their keyboards when they feel they've scored a point.
Ok Murphy,
Then a little test/opinion poll.
Would you consider me an introvert?
I belong to this forum, and two other, both being pen turning and woodworking forums, all three dealing with detailed, specialized subject matter and topics.
I have been a regular member of all three for many years.
I enjoy detail and precise work.
I enjoy the company of other train fans, and other woodworkers.
I rarely meet anyone I dislike instantly.
I read one to two books a week, on subject matters ranging from science fiction, horror, to history and current events, I don't enjoy much of what is on TV unless it is a teaching program, or one that explains how things work or are made.
One the other hand, I belonged to a US Calvary Group, rode in many parades, ride still when I can, love performing in front of large audiences, and drive a very eye catching and noticable car.
You and I have had several private conversations, and I have had other conversations with many forum members, met quite a few in person, so...where would you/they place me in your theory and theme?
I already know what the professional answer is..my oldest daughter suffers from clinical chronic depression, which produces many "umbrella" effects, the most common is a diagnosis of Attention Deficit Disorder and extrem introversion, so I have spent many hours in professional consultation with her doctors, undergone several extensive test my self in order to better understand her condition, and can live comfortably with their assessment of my own personality.
I have met Carl in person, and agree with his assessment of his own personality...by the way, he "collects" freight cars and belongs to a car spotters organization/club.
When a car or a series of cars come by that he has been hunting, out comes the pocket notebook and pen, and he ceases to pay attention to anything but the cars, like a coin collector searching for that one mint piece, he ignores all distractions and does his note taking...I bet you could set off a small bomb behind him and he would intentionally ignore it.
But away from trackside, he is outgoing, funny, friendly and knowledgable on many, many subject not in the least bit releated to trains...so it begs the question...
So, based on what you do know about me, what would you consider me to be, an extrover or an introvert?
And no, I will take no insult from what ever opinion you or others may have formed, this is simply a way to measure other peoples idea of the two personalities mentioned.
Murphy Siding trainfan1221 Didn't this thread just start off with a basic question....? Sometimes, we just never know where we're headed. My main interest, was in that introverts seem to be attracted to internet forums, and to be able to revel in narrowly defined subject matters that require some thought> trains, for example.
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edblysard Ok Murphy, Then a little test/opinion poll. Would you consider me an introvert? ............... ...................So, based on what you do know about me, what would you consider me to be, an extrover or an introvert? And no, I will take no insult from what ever opinion you or others may have formed, this is simply a way to measure other peoples idea of the two personalities mentioned.
Would you consider me an introvert? ...............
...................So, based on what you do know about me, what would you consider me to be, an extrover or an introvert?
Let me back up a bit and clarify something. I'm not trying to pass any kind of judgement about extroverts/introverts. It was my observation, that introverts, like me, are attracted to forums like this, because we're more comfortable with it. That's not to say, that all people who enjoy and use this forums are introverts.
That being said, I don't know that I could or would want to *classify* someone, based on their interaction on the forum. (How's that for a wimpy non- answer?) You seem to pocess the best attributes of both.
I don't know how I would be classified...I work well with people however prefer alone time or time with close friends and family over social gatherings. The internet is a great medium for sharing interest and for exchange of information regardless of your personality type.
Oh we Americans like to pigeon hole, quantify, qualify and segregate foibles, personalities, music, likes, dislikes, similarities, disimilarities, demographics, idiosyncrosies, hair color, eye color, sex, height, ...well you name it, and we do it. If we don't have that information handy at the stroke of an internet key, we are lost. Let's move on and enjoy the likenesses and unliknesses of each of us and talk about trains and railroading.....
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
Train watching can often times become a solitary hobby. My kids were taken trackside but did not become railfans. My one son is an excellent photogragher but has no interest in trains as a subject. Sometimes I will have my grandson tag along; he has a real interest in trains right now.Many times, however, I go alone. I do not consider this bad or introverted. Once a few years ago I drove from Pittsburgh to Horse Shoe Curve alone and had a wonderful time while my wife went to an Amish show. While there I did meet other railfans and talked railroading. I resent anyone who assumes that there is something bizarre about liking trains or a solitary hobby.
aricat I resent anyone who assumes that there is something bizarre about liking trains or a solitary hobby.
I agree.....Not sure just why some seem to resort to indicating railroad activity interests, are weird, etc....As for doing this activity alone, sometimes it just seems to work that way as not every friend happends to have this interest. And being alone at times, really does give the individual his opportunity to really hone in and concentrate and extract all the interests from the hobby, without distractions....
Quentin
Murphy Siding edblysard Ok Murphy, Then a little test/opinion poll. Would you consider me an introvert? ............... ...................So, based on what you do know about me, what would you consider me to be, an extrover or an introvert? And no, I will take no insult from what ever opinion you or others may have formed, this is simply a way to measure other peoples idea of the two personalities mentioned. Oofda! Where's the Rodney Dangerfield icon? The one with a bright red face, bulging eyes, a collar that is too tight, and sweating like a bullet. Let me back up a bit and clarify something. I'm not trying to pass any kind of judgement about extroverts/introverts. It was my observation, that introverts, like me, are attracted to forums like this, because we're more comfortable with it. That's not to say, that all people who enjoy and use this forums are introverts. That being said, I don't know that I could or would want to *classify* someone, based on their interaction on the forum. (How's that for a wimpy non- answer?) You seem to pocess the best attributes of both.
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Mookie [clip] . . . basically introverts that have had to adjust to being extroverts, at times, . . . . And I suspect that a true introvert or extrovert is a fairly rare animal.
. . . Kind of like one of my cats, methinks.
- Paul.
It should be noted that many introverts don't realize how extroverted they really may be. Often those in the entertainment industry are quite introverted but they become extroverted with public performances which covers up thier persona. Comedians and disk jockies...er...radio personalities..., are the first to come to mind, but so do actors, singers and musicians, and dancers.
I agree with the general premise that it is harder to classify personality by types than is sometimes assumed. I would say that this is also true with the classic introvert/extrovert labels, yet this is the one that most people apply to each other with great confidence. However, this particular classification does come with just a tinge of stigmatization.
I have noticed that people who are thought to be extroverts generally believe that they are “normal” and introversion is an affliction or dysfunction. But of course introverts can see that extroverts naturally come to this flawed conclusion just because they are extroverts. Somebody once said that people who need people are the luckiest people in the world. That sounds like something an extrovert would say. Enjoying being around people is fine, but somebody has got to be able to get inside and do the deep thinking.
Bucyrus Somebody once said that people who need people are the luckiest people in the world. That sounds like something an extrovert would say.
OR a song writer. OR Barbra Striesand!
henry6 Often those in the entertainment industry are quite introverted but they become extroverted with public performances which covers up thier persona. Comedians and disk jockies...er...radio personalities..
Believe a good example of the above would be former comedian and personality, Johnny Carson. And he was one of the best at what he did professonally.
Mookie Murphy Siding edblysard Ok Murphy, Then a little test/opinion poll. Would you consider me an introvert? ............... ...................So, based on what you do know about me, what would you consider me to be, an extrover or an introvert? And no, I will take no insult from what ever opinion you or others may have formed, this is simply a way to measure other peoples idea of the two personalities mentioned. Oofda! Where's the Rodney Dangerfield icon? The one with a bright red face, bulging eyes, a collar that is too tight, and sweating like a bullet. Let me back up a bit and clarify something. I'm not trying to pass any kind of judgement about extroverts/introverts. It was my observation, that introverts, like me, are attracted to forums like this, because we're more comfortable with it. That's not to say, that all people who enjoy and use this forums are introverts. That being said, I don't know that I could or would want to *classify* someone, based on their interaction on the forum. (How's that for a wimpy non- answer?) You seem to pocess the best attributes of both. Psst - Murphy - he's both. So is Carl. They are both basically introverts that have had to adjust to being extroverts, at times, as adults. Won't add more than that, but there are at least 3 of us on the forum. And I suspect that a true introvert or extrovert is a fairly rare animal.
Murph,
Was not trying to put you on the spot at all...
("Take my wife, please")
Mookie has the answer though...both.
What I was trying to bring out is that it is easy to classify people based on casual observation, like what you see on a forum.
But in reality, some of us intorverts have learned to be extroverts when it suits our purpose or needs.
As was pointed out in another response, we here tend to pigon hole people, we love to box everything up and have a place for them in our own "ordered world" because that helps us releate to those folks.
But when they step out of the persona we have assigned them, it freaks us out because it is an unexpected action.
But my "ordered world" might be vastly different from yours!
I would suspect most intorverts use their "personal time" in the same manner I do...it is really my problem solving time, the detail work and seemingly obsessive attention to small details is actualy a way to filter out distractions so we can approach problems from several directions.
Having met Mookie, and her extrovert Driver, Carl and his extrovert Pat, Mudchicken and his Pat, (who is like me, both ex and introvert at the same time) and a few other forum members, my conclusion is that we tend to pair up, the old opposites attract thing, because it is easier for us to allow the extrovert half to run things at times so we can concentrate on our hobbies/passions/interest.
If you ever get to meet my extrovert, you will understand.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
edblysard But in reality, some of us introverts have learned to be extroverts when it suits our purpose or needs.
But in reality, some of us introverts have learned to be extroverts when it suits our purpose or needs.
-Norris, the salesman, of all things I do most of my problem solving when I drive.
Ulrich I don't know how I would be classified...I work well with people however prefer alone time or time with close friends and family over social gatherings. The internet is a great medium for sharing interest and for exchange of information regardless of your personality type.
Hopefully most if not all of us can agree on that.
edblysardWould you consider me an introvert?
One of the simplest explanations for differentiating an introvert from an extrovert is how they unwind or decompress. Introverts do it by taking time for themselves, extroverts do it by associating with other people. Introverts will tend to have fewer but deeper friendships, where extroverts tend to have more but less deep friendships.
There's quite a bit of evidence that the introversion/extroversion differences are neurologically based.
Perhaps the best takeaway of the introvert/extrovert discussion is that the differences are innate and it doesn't make sense to make an extrovert out of an introvert.
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