Harassed in Fostoria

[csxengineer98]

this is a case study in railroad/railfan relations.. insted of being respectfull when you come into "our house" (on public proporty or not you are watching the actions of our place of work..and the actions of us doing our jobs) and should be respectfull of US the EMPLOLYEES!!! that means if we ask you not to take pics then dont do it.. just move on to another location or something.. im sure that if we where to come to your place of work and take pics of you or your company doing what it dose and you didnt want your pic or the actions of the company photograghed you would say something to the person takeing the pics too... but this isnt about taking pics or the right to take pics from public proporty of trains..this is all becouse someone got there feelings hurt by a brash employee...bottom line!!!!

csx engineer 

If you can stand on public property and take photos of me at work, have at it.

 

if i knew what you did and where you worked out of..maybe i would in my time off.. but that isnt the point here.. this isnt about photos or the rights to do it from where.. its about someone being confronted granted in a less that profecinal mannor..and having his feelings hurt becouse the person used the word terrorist... re-read the letter dude.. it is all about that word and how his feelings where hurt and feeling insulted becouse the employee used it.. that is what this is all about.. some of you want to make this an issue of it was public proporty crap..that isnt what this is about at all..reread the first posting and the letter.. you will see the tone of his posting turn when that word was used.. not becouse he was asked not to take pics.. THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE..DEAL WITH IT!!!!

 

Well, DUDE, I did go back and read the 1st post, I also re-read the 2nd reply, and if I were to  get excited over anyone, it would be that person.  Do you recognise that person??  His mention of THE word was a secondary point, his main issue was that of the person and yelling inaccurate information and doing so in a unprofessional manner.

I happen to agree with the original post, and also with all of what was said by Poppa_zit.  AND, it really does come down to the issue of being on public property and being on private property.  When on public property, one is allowed to take photo's of (in this instance) trains.  It is not illegal!!  Like another poster said, "when they are used commercially" that is a different issue.  I also believe that he did the proper thing in not confronting, however, if I were him, I would have completely ignored the person on the "porch BEHIND the engine" and went about my business.  I would rather deal with the local law enforcement than with a wannabe security person who has absolutely no authority beyond property lines.  So, DUDE. chill and deal with it goes both ways.  You were the 1st one to go hyper over this post.

thanks,

Jared 

here is my responce to this....... this is OUR house..public proporty or not.. if asked not to take pics regardless of the demeaner of the person saying it.then dont do it.. be respectfull to the job and the employees.. i stand by my statment that is has nothing to do with the pics as it is the exchange between the employee and the person... posting such as yours and this one that started this whole tread are a prime example of why some of use railroaders dont like rail buffs.. its the oh i wasnt doing anything wrong..but yet you where taking pics of me while i was working and maybe i was haveing a bad day and in a very POed mood and just didnt want my pic taken.. maybe i missed out on going to a wedding that day becouse i got called into work and there you are on a nice saterday afternoon track side taking pics injoying yourself when i have to work and "proform" for you like a circuse animal for your amusement and injoyment.. you might only think of it as equimpment or a building..but there is more to it then that.. the human side of things and being human myself there are days where i dont want to deal with people im working with let alone someone trying to take my pic while im working...so DUDE.. be respectfull if anyone asks you not to take any more pics regardless of where it is or what it of..  public proporty isnt a free licence to invade my place of work if i am not feeling photogenic that day!!!!

csx engineer 

[zugmann]

as csx says.. there's a difference between what is legal.. and waht is common courtesey.  The legal stuff will keep you out of jail, the common courtesey stuff will give you happy joy-joy feeling and good karma..

[csxengineer98]

and for the reason why i was the first to get "hot" over this thread was that a fellow sister in service could get in some kind of trouble with the company due to the actions of one hurt feelings train buff...i cant stand people that have to make issue out of not being told they couldnt do something..there are alot of things i have been told i couldnt do..some in polite ways and others in ways that make what this woman said sound respectfull.. yet i didnt go off and have to write a letter..i sucked it up and moved on with my life.. 

csx engineer 

[Anonymous]

Hmmm...Seems the original poster is placing this on all the popular rail sites:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,1739347

Coincidence?...YOU make the call

 

 

[RRKen]

Hmmm...Seems the original poster is placing this on all the popular rail sites:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,1739347

Coincidence?...YOU make the call

 looks kinds suspicious to me.

[zugmann]

Trainorders is popular??

Popularity must cost pennies a day then... 

 

[Modelcar]

.....And of course you have the right to disagree Murray.

[RRKen]

Trainorders is popular??

Popularity must cost pennies a day then...

That is why he had to get rid of the freeloaders.

[zugmann]

RRers are the finest in the practice of freeloading...

[Soo 6604]

Hmmm...Seems the original poster is placing this on all the popular rail sites:

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,1739347

Coincidence?...YOU make the call

 

 

Your point is?

There is only 1 other popular rail site? If so, then it would be on "all the popular rail sites"

[RRKen]

RRers are the finest in the practice of freeloading...

 

What ever you do, never get near a line of railroaders when someone says free food!

[zugmann]

Did it once.. still have a limp in that leg...

[EJE818]

One question I have to ask, are scanners legal in Ohio? I know they are legal here in Illinois but it is illegal to use portable scanners in Indiana.

[RRKen]

Did it once.. still have a limp in that leg...

\

I found out the hard way too.    I worked second shift, there was never any left overs.

[sandiego]

After reading 120 messages on this I have two things to say:

1. Kevin, I know what you are saying, I am ready to give up trainwatching and photography because of the hassles from ignorant clods like the one you ran into. This Hopeless Insecurity BS just gets worse every year, both from LEO and RR, and what's so stupid is that the bad guys can get the photos and information if they want to without anyone ever knowing. Think cell phone cameras for example, everyone has cell phones and no one notices them. How about videocams, two people in a vehicle driving down the street with one videoing, would anyone notice?

2. After reading the illiterate rants from railroad employees I am ashamed to say that I was a railroader also, with 25 years of total service and 16 years in TYE. I never had a problem with anyone taking photos if they were off the property, I was photographed many times but so what? If you are doing your job properly you have nothing to worry about. As for ops testing I have probably have a dozen letters stating "on (date), checked on (rule), result (passed, good job)" and I had no idea at the time I that was being tested; same thing do your job properly and you have no problems.

As for being photographed at work, I now work for a company locating underground utilities, and I'm out on the street with my reflectorized vest including being near RR tracks at crossings so photo away!

Finally, to you RR jerks writing here, if I see something wrong on your train do you think that I will report it? After this, NOT LIKELY!!

Kurt Hayek
(Not afraid to sign my name)

[zugmann]

So don't report the problems.  THen when the train derails and kills someone you know that was sitting at the crossing... have fun washing that blood off your hands.  Ashamed to say you were a railroader?  Well I'm ashamed that you were one.  

 

After reading 120 messages on this I have two things to say:

 

2. After reading the illiterate rants from railroad employees I am ashamed to say that I was a railroader also, with 25 years of total service and 16 years in TYE. I never had a problem with anyone taking photos if they were off the property, I was photographed many times but so what? If you are doing your job properly you have nothing to worry about. As for ops testing I have probably have a dozen letters stating "on (date), checked on (rule), result (passed, good job)" and I had no idea at the time I that was being tested; same thing do your job properly and you have no problems.

As for being photographed at work, I now work for a company locating underground utilities, and I'm out on the street with my reflectorized vest including being near RR tracks at crossings so photo away!

Finally, to you RR jerks writing here, if I see something wrong on your train do you think that I will report it? After this, NOT LIKELY!!

Kurt Hayek
(Not afraid to sign my name)

[Anonymous]

After reading 120 messages on this I have two things to say:

1. Kevin, I know what you are saying, I am ready to give up trainwatching and photography because of the hassles from ignorant clods like the one you ran into. This Hopeless Insecurity BS just gets worse every year, both from LEO and RR, and what's so stupid is that the bad guys can get the photos and information if they want to without anyone ever knowing. Think cell phone cameras for example, everyone has cell phones and no one notices them. How about videocams, two people in a vehicle driving down the street with one videoing, would anyone notice?

2. After reading the illiterate rants from railroad employees I am ashamed to say that I was a railroader also, with 25 years of total service and 16 years in TYE. I never had a problem with anyone taking photos if they were off the property, I was photographed many times but so what? If you are doing your job properly you have nothing to worry about. As for ops testing I have probably have a dozen letters stating "on (date), checked on (rule), result (passed, good job)" and I had no idea at the time I that was being tested; same thing do your job properly and you have no problems.

As for being photographed at work, I now work for a company locating underground utilities, and I'm out on the street with my reflectorized vest including being near RR tracks at crossings so photo away!

Finally, to you RR jerks writing here, if I see something wrong on your train do you think that I will report it? After this, NOT LIKELY!!

Kurt Hayek
(Not afraid to sign my name)

Must have had a stellar railroad career that you are no longer in the industry.

 

[RRKen]

2. After reading the illiterate rants from railroad employees I am ashamed to say that I was a railroader also, with 25 years of total service and 16 years in TYE. I never had a problem with anyone taking photos if they were off the property, I was photographed many times but so what? If you are doing your job properly you have nothing to worry about. As for ops testing I have probably have a dozen letters stating "on (date), checked on (rule), result (passed, good job)" and I had no idea at the time I that was being tested; same thing do your job properly and you have no problems.

Finally, to you RR jerks writing here, if I see something wrong on your train do you think that I will report it? After this, NOT LIKELY!!

Kurt Hayek
(Not afraid to sign my name)

Aren't   you special.   You forgot Arrogant.

[JT22CW]

(Carmen) Sandiego's post casts major aspersions on the claim that he was a rail.

Nice try.  Real convincing.

[tstage]

Gentlemen,

Can we please stop the sparring and the personal whacks at one another?  This thread is getting dangerously close to the "property lines"...

Tom

[Soo 6604]

When I go railfanning, nature hikes, or just out and about taking pictures, this is what I do. I mind my own business. If somebody questions me, I ask them show me some credentials saying that you can question me on what I am doing. 90% don't but the 10% that do, I listen and respect what they say, and do what they tell me to do. As for the confrontational ones (I get that a lot cause of my size, 6'6" 265 lbs), bring it on. If they don't show me credentials, then I clam up. I don't tell them anything. Some will call the cops. So be it. I'll wait for them. I'll wait for them to ask me questions. I tell them exactly what I am doing there and I ask them if they want me to leave. I don't give out more information than need be. I don't show them pictures. They are my pictures for my pleasure. I am never on RR property, illegally. Only with permission that I am on RR property. Getting harder and harder to do so. I've been jailed twice and tazed once because I wouldn't tell the cops more than I wanted them to know as in: where am I going next, where do I plan to stay, where did I come from (I usually say my Mom), just a bunch of useless questions, to me. I've had an officer repremended because of his actions. I don't lose sleep over that.  If you confront me, make sure that it is in your best interest to do so. Remember, I am on public property. Don't give me crap saying "it's their railroad, it's their property". BS. If they don't want you to photograph it, put up a fence. Whats the difference if I am right there, or far away with a telephoto lens or even on google earth? The one thing I don't photograph are the employees. They mean nothing to me.

On nature walks, people that have trails in their backyards have fences so people can not see their house, backyard, activites that are going on...ect. They were smart enough to do so.

Time to step off my and get change for my

Paul

PS. If your in a public place, you have no privacy

[JT22CW]

Brilliant reply.  Now we all know that you're a troublemaker.  Cops don't tase people who aren't being aggressive with them ("where do you come from?" "My mom"…that's wising off and being disrespectful; well done).  Police aren't intimidated by size.  Be thankful you're on the outside and not locked up for another episode of acting up like you admitted herein.

[Goober]

this is a case study in railroad/railfan relations.. insted of being respectfull when you come into "our house" (on public proporty or not you are watching the actions of our place of work..and the actions of us doing our jobs) and should be respectfull of US the EMPLOLYEES!!! that means if we ask you not to take pics then dont do it.. just move on to another location or something.. im sure that if we where to come to your place of work and take pics of you or your company doing what it dose and you didnt want your pic or the actions of the company photograghed you would say something to the person takeing the pics too... but this isnt about taking pics or the right to take pics from public proporty of trains..this is all becouse someone got there feelings hurt by a brash employee...bottom line!!!!

csx engineer 

If you can stand on public property and take photos of me at work, have at it.

 

if i knew what you did and where you worked out of..maybe i would in my time off.. but that isnt the point here.. this isnt about photos or the rights to do it from where.. its about someone being confronted granted in a less that profecinal mannor..and having his feelings hurt becouse the person used the word terrorist... re-read the letter dude.. it is all about that word and how his feelings where hurt and feeling insulted becouse the employee used it.. that is what this is all about.. some of you want to make this an issue of it was public proporty crap..that isnt what this is about at all..reread the first posting and the letter.. you will see the tone of his posting turn when that word was used.. not becouse he was asked not to take pics.. THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE..DEAL WITH IT!!!!

 

Well, DUDE, I did go back and read the 1st post, I also re-read the 2nd reply, and if I were to  get excited over anyone, it would be that person.  Do you recognise that person??  His mention of THE word was a secondary point, his main issue was that of the person and yelling inaccurate information and doing so in a unprofessional manner.

I happen to agree with the original post, and also with all of what was said by Poppa_zit.  AND, it really does come down to the issue of being on public property and being on private property.  When on public property, one is allowed to take photo's of (in this instance) trains.  It is not illegal!!  Like another poster said, "when they are used commercially" that is a different issue.  I also believe that he did the proper thing in not confronting, however, if I were him, I would have completely ignored the person on the "porch BEHIND the engine" and went about my business.  I would rather deal with the local law enforcement than with a wannabe security person who has absolutely no authority beyond property lines.  So, DUDE. chill and deal with it goes both ways.  You were the 1st one to go hyper over this post.

thanks,

Jared 

here is my responce to this....... this is OUR house..public proporty or not.. if asked not to take pics regardless of the demeaner of the person saying it.then dont do it.. be respectfull to the job and the employees.. i stand by my statment that is has nothing to do with the pics as it is the exchange between the employee and the person... posting such as yours and this one that started this whole tread are a prime example of why some of use railroaders dont like rail buffs.. its the oh i wasnt doing anything wrong..but yet you where taking pics of me while i was working and maybe i was haveing a bad day and in a very POed mood and just didnt want my pic taken.. maybe i missed out on going to a wedding that day becouse i got called into work and there you are on a nice saterday afternoon track side taking pics injoying yourself when i have to work and "proform" for you like a circuse animal for your amusement and injoyment.. you might only think of it as equimpment or a building..but there is more to it then that.. the human side of things and being human myself there are days where i dont want to deal with people im working with let alone someone trying to take my pic while im working...so DUDE.. be respectfull if anyone asks you not to take any more pics regardless of where it is or what it of..  public proporty isnt a free licence to invade my place of work if i am not feeling photogenic that day!!!!

csx engineer 

As in the my last response, you need to get something correct, you may ask me to not take your photo, and being a decent human being I should respect your request.  Tell me that it is illegal to take your photo and we will continue to argue the point.  Yes it is your house, don't make exceptions, because (and you are not going to like this) public property is NOT your house.  Sorry!! Public property is not your place of work, then you would be a public employee and subject to different codes of conduct (probably be required to wear a vest).

As far as your "sister" is concerned, she made a decision to do the wrong thing, don't make it worse by condoning it just for the sister/brotherhood.  She made a mistake, if that causes her  a penalty, welcome to the real world.

Kudos to Paul a fellow railfan from Appleton in a following post.

Jared 

 

[Modelcar]

.....A hundred forty-three replies to this thread....Who would have thunk it.....

[chad thomas]

.....A hundred forty-three replies to this thread....Who would have thunk it.....

Yea, the popcorn machine is getting a workout

[Soo 6604]

Brilliant reply.  Now we all know that you're a troublemaker.  Cops don't tase people who aren't being aggressive with them ("where do you come from?" "My mom"…that's wising off and being disrespectful; well done).  Police aren't intimidated by size.  Be thankful you're on the outside and not locked up for another episode of acting up like you admitted herein.

I was tazed for obstructing. Here are his exact words from the court report "Answer me now or i will taze you" Officer ******* said. That was over a question of "where are you staying" If the police would have treated me with respect right away and continued it, i would have treated them the same way. I push the envolope into the gray but I leave it up to the courts to find it the right direction. I know the police aren't intimidated by size. Read again. I was writing about people that confront me. Not the Police. Now, when the Police get disrespectful, that's when I push the envelope. I am an adult. Nobody tells me how I should or shouldn't act. Nobody needs to know what I am doing, going to do, or have done. You can ask, and I can refuse to answer you. Depends on how you ask.

I want to know is how I am the trouble maker? Photographing trains, nature, lightning, is that me being the trouble maker? Is it being respectful to the people that show me respect when they question me? Is it when I am appraoched in an aggressive manor and demanded their questions answered?  I still don't see where I am the trouble maker.

Within the first few sentences, most Police officers already decided how they are going to go about, just a few questions or resorting to waterboarding. All I have to answer to is: what I am doing there, why and give them my name, phone number, license, registration and proof of insurance (in some states). It's my right to clam up if I so choose to. I'll deal with it later.

I've been on the short quick questions of "What are you doing here?" "Watching trains" "OK, just stay off the tracks". and they move on. The worst one i've been in (in 1996 pre-9/11 fear) was that I've had my car stripped and searched. The seats were actually taken out. The cop kept on telling me that I better conscent to a vehicle search or he's going to make it a really long night for me. I had nothing to lose, I had nowhere to be. I was along the tracks, about 50 feet back from the gates, watching trains. Labor Day weekend and he had to get a judge off the golf course so he could sign the search warrant. 7 hours later and 9 squads responded, the search came up nothing. I was asked if I didn't have anything to hide, why i just didnt conscent to the search. It was my car, my property and I didnt feel like he needed to violate my personal property since he didnt have any probably cause whats-so-ever.

Yeah, I know i have an attitude problem. You give me lip, i give you lip. You ask a stupid question, i give you a stupid answer (which i am very good at). eye for eye. If you think you can change me, go for it, if not, keep your personal opinions about me to yourself. You dont know me, just "my kind". I've given the shirt off my back so many times but its the negative the people remember you by.

"Trouble Maker" Paul

[Erie Lackawanna]

i just hope that a fellow railroad employee dosnt get in some kind of trouble for what i feel is an over reaction to being asked not to take pics.. granted she might have gone about it alittle bit more tactfull but no everyone will... if she dose end up on some kind of suspention as a ressult of this "letter" it is one more reason for railroaders to have a contempt for rail fans if you ask me..

csx engineer 

It would have been much better for this employee to have said something like "We've been told by our employer to report anyone taking pictures here or with a scanner to the railroad or local police" rather than to improperly quote the laws (this fellow was NOT doing anything illegal from what I just read.

 

I was stopped exactly that way by a UP rail some years back.  He was a very nice guy.  We spoke for awhile, he understood who I was, and then he said, "Have fun... just don't trespass..." and I did just that.

[tree68]

.....A hundred forty-three replies to this thread....Who would have thunk it.....

Yea, the popcorn machine is getting a workout

I have to believe this could be a record of some sort.  When I saw the size of the thread I figured it had been resurrected from the depths and was surprised to find that it started today.

As for the topic at hand - I support the OP's basic premise that the "employee" (something that hasn't been proved conclusively) in question was out of line.  I'm certain that had she said something along the lines of "we strongly discourage photos of this area, please move along" this thread would never have been started.

Instead she apparently copped an attitude.  I might just have been tempted to hang around until someone with some credentials showed up.  Who knows - if she got belligerent enough to cross the tracks and confront me in person, I might have been dialing 9-1-1...

[Soo 6604]

Just by her sitting in the chair on railroad property, one could assume that she was a RR employee.

"Trouble Maker" Paul

[Mookie]

You know - if instead of giving me grief about being within the 100 foot distance a railroad employee would stop and visit with me, I would be thrilled out of my mind.