Railway Man wrote: Close enough. Utah & Northern Railroad incorporated 1871 to build Ogden-Butte, reorganized 1878 as Utah & Northern Railway, consolidated with Oregon Short Line in 1889 as Oregon Short Line & Utah Northern Railway, reorganized 1897 as Oregon Short Line Railroad, leased to Union Pacific Railroad in 1936, merged into Union Pacific Railroad in 1987. Standard-gauged in 1887 (all on one day). The first train arrived Butte December 21, 1881. UP interests subsequently built the Montana Union Railroad from Butte to the NP main line at Garrison. The Montana Union, including the Silver Bow-Butte line, was leased to NP for 999 years.RWM
Close enough. Utah & Northern Railroad incorporated 1871 to build Ogden-Butte, reorganized 1878 as Utah & Northern Railway, consolidated with Oregon Short Line in 1889 as Oregon Short Line & Utah Northern Railway, reorganized 1897 as Oregon Short Line Railroad, leased to Union Pacific Railroad in 1936, merged into Union Pacific Railroad in 1987. Standard-gauged in 1887 (all on one day).
The first train arrived Butte December 21, 1881. UP interests subsequently built the Montana Union Railroad from Butte to the NP main line at Garrison. The Montana Union, including the Silver Bow-Butte line, was leased to NP for 999 years.
RWM
RWM.
It might be stretching it a bit to call it a western railroad but the old Houston East & West Texas also qualifies. It was originally built as a narrow gauge road between Houston and Shreveport. The old "Rabbit" was later abosorbed by the SP (T&NO) and was a secondary line of that road until the UP acquired the SP. Today it is an integral part of the main UP route for southbound traffic from Chicago and St. Louis to Houston and points in south Texas.
Mark
nanaimo73 wrote: Next question,During 1967, there were 7 different freight railroads connecting Chicago with Omaha/Council Bluffs. From north to south, these were Chicago Great Western; Illinois Central; Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific; Chicago and North Western; Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific; Chicago, Burlington and Quincy; and the Norfolk and Western. Ten years later (1977) there were still 7 different freight railroads connecting Chicago with Omaha/Council Bluffs. What were they ?
Next question,
During 1967, there were 7 different freight railroads connecting Chicago with Omaha/Council Bluffs. From north to south, these were Chicago Great Western; Illinois Central; Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific; Chicago and North Western; Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific; Chicago, Burlington and Quincy; and the Norfolk and Western. Ten years later (1977) there were still 7 different freight railroads connecting Chicago with Omaha/Council Bluffs. What were they ?
I'm not sure if these were all in operation in 1977 but will swag it and say:
Chicago Central
Iowa Interstate
ICE
Norfolk Southern
Burlington Northern
Union Pacific
Soo
1. CNW
2. CRIP
3. MLWK
4. BN
5. NW
6. ICG
7. MP? (via trackage rights from KC)
I forgot the line extended to Garrison. Oops.
nanaimo73 wrote:The Utah and Northern (?), built from Utah (Ogden?) to Silver Bow (Butte), which was absorbed by, and still operated by, Union Pacific.
snagletooth wrote:I think its back to Railwayman, we were all somewhat right and somewhat wrong. Nobody really nailed it.
OK, hmmm, here's one ... I'm staring at the map on the wall ... on another interminable conference call on mute ...
Everyone mostly knows that the Denver & Rio Grande Western began as a narrow-gauge and later standard-gauged its main line between Denver and Ogden. Name the other Western main line that also built end-to-end narrow-gauge, then standard gauged it, that like the Rio Grande continues to exist today. Also, name its end points (when built and now). The fur-bearer and Mr. Mud know this one.
KCSfan wrote: Who's at bat and what's the next question?Mark
Who's at bat and what's the next question?
As an opinion, I would say Railwayman, or in his absence Snaggletooth. Snaggletooth answered the question pretty well IMHO but Railwayman's answer nailed down all the options.
Besides, it's too cold to be outside playing horseshoes; they might rust in the snow . - a. s.
CShaveRR wrote:RWM, you can imagine how far aback I was taken when you said I worked in an automatic yard!Compared to rider yards, I guess Proviso would be considered automated. But we still throw our switches individually (I think I wore out a toggle today!), and set and release our own retarders, making the judgement calls ourselves. I'm not sure that any other yard in the country uses this system any more.As for our retarders, they're mostly electro-hydraulic now. But for most of my career, they've been electro-mechanical--no hydraulics, no pneumatics, just motors, gears, and rods.
RWM, you can imagine how far aback I was taken when you said I worked in an automatic yard!
Compared to rider yards, I guess Proviso would be considered automated. But we still throw our switches individually (I think I wore out a toggle today!), and set and release our own retarders, making the judgement calls ourselves. I'm not sure that any other yard in the country uses this system any more.
As for our retarders, they're mostly electro-hydraulic now. But for most of my career, they've been electro-mechanical--no hydraulics, no pneumatics, just motors, gears, and rods.
Clearly, Rube Goldberg never saw a retarder! I once made the mistake of parking my truck 100 feet from a master retarder during a week-long business train trip. When I returned it was heavily spotted with oil and steel filings that spray out of the retarder. Then I understood why those parking spaces weren't taken at 0700 on a Monday morning.
"Automatic" is truly in the eye of the beholder marketing department.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
snagletooth wrote: Railway Man wrote: OK, but you can't answer this one Carl.Question: Carl works at at an "automatic" hump yard. How did "manual" hump yards work, and what were they usually called?RWM by manual, I think he means the earliest retarders and switches being controlled by the tower operater, as opposed to automatics, where cars are weigh on the hump and a computer controls the retarders and switches. From what I've read, it was something of an art. Knowing when and how air to give the retarder. early hump yards before retarders were called (iirc) gravity yards, and I believe it held over for early "manual" yards for several yaers until "someone started calling them retarder yards, then hump yards. "My final answer", manually controled air-pneumatic retarders controlled by yard tower operaters and they were called gravity yards. Did I win?! Did I win?!
Railway Man wrote: OK, but you can't answer this one Carl.Question: Carl works at at an "automatic" hump yard. How did "manual" hump yards work, and what were they usually called?RWM
OK, but you can't answer this one Carl.
Question: Carl works at at an "automatic" hump yard. How did "manual" hump yards work, and what were they usually called?
early hump yards before retarders were called (iirc) gravity yards, and I believe it held over for early "manual" yards for several yaers until "someone started calling them retarder yards, then hump yards.
"My final answer", manually controled air-pneumatic retarders controlled by yard tower operaters and they were called gravity yards.
Did I win?! Did I win?!
Three eras in hump yards. First was the "rider yard" with a switchman riding each car (or small cuts) to tie handbrakes to control speed, and switch tenders to throw the appropriate switches in the throat. Very labor-intensive and as noted, a death trap (as were all yards then).
Second era was the appearance of the automated hump yard circa 1930. They were considered automated by the railroad industry because the retarding action was performed by machine instead of by humans (though of course humans operated the retarders by either electro-pneumatic or electro-hydraulic action).
Third era is the computer controlled retarders, appearing circa 1960. The early computer-controlled retarders were pretty bad.
Railway Man wrote:OK, but you can't answer this one Carl.Question: Carl works at at an "automatic" hump yard. How did "manual" hump yards work, and what were they usually called?RWM
Trainman Ty described how they work.
rrnut named them
So 2 winners!
Dan
death traps.
rider yards?
Ann Arbor Railroad was the odd man out.
P&RSL was one of many subsidiary or jointly controlled railroads of the other six, in this case PC and RDG.
CShaveRR wrote: OK. While we're on the subject, sort of...Conrail was formed in 1976, supposedly from seven bankrupt northeastern railroads. Much trackage from these railroads was removed from service when the railroad went into operation. In fact, one of the seven railroads contributed no trackage at all to the completed system.Which one?
OK. While we're on the subject, sort of...
Conrail was formed in 1976, supposedly from seven bankrupt northeastern railroads. Much trackage from these railroads was removed from service when the railroad went into operation. In fact, one of the seven railroads contributed no trackage at all to the completed system.
Which one?
I'm assuming that the one RR in seven for whose track Conrail had no use might have have had a portion of its (prior = defunct RR co.) track go to one of the newly-formed regional-transit authorities of the 1970s. IOW even if some of the track was taken for commuter trains, it would not influence your question because it queries only for freight (Conrail) purposes.
That doesn't mean I've been able to reason which one it was.
Just a blind guess and of course no research: The Pennsylvania-Reading Seashore Line (or perhaps it was "Lines") ?? - a. s.
CShaveRR wrote: al-in-chgo wrote: CShaveRR wrote:I can't remember the precise bankruptcy date, but I'll go with 865. Keep trying! - a.s.Something tells me I was pretty close here! I'll add another week--how about 872?
al-in-chgo wrote: CShaveRR wrote:I can't remember the precise bankruptcy date, but I'll go with 865. Keep trying! - a.s.
CShaveRR wrote:I can't remember the precise bankruptcy date, but I'll go with 865.
Keep trying! - a.s.
Something tells me I was pretty close here! I'll add another week--how about 872?
DING! DING! DING! You hit it exactly!
For those who are playing along or have guessed, here's the math:
Nineteen sixty-eight: Subtract 31 (all days in January) from 366 (1968 was a Leap Year, remember?) [Every U.S. Presidential election year is also a Leap Year.]
1968: 335 days from February 1, inclusive thru December 31 of that year.
1969: 365 days (entire non-leap year).
1970: 172 days, inclusive, 1/1/70 thru 6/21/70 (date of filing for bankruptcy)*.
= 872 days.
The Penn Central kept running, of course, but IIRC it was in receivership all the way to Conrail. - a.s.
Way to go, CARL!! - The next question is yours. - a. s.
_________________
* Specifically, add January (31 days), February (28), March (31), April (30), May (31) and 21 days of June, inclusive. == 172 days.
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