Railroad History Quiz Game (Come on in and play)

[blhanel]

I'm not much of a trivia source, and since I kinda sorta cheated to help answer this one (although I never left the forum), I'll defer to that great source of all knowledge, nanaimo73, who provided me with my answers!  I just couldn't resist the urge to pull up his Mississippi Crossings thread...

[KCSfan]

Between Brian, Murphy, RWM and Snaggletooth you have named all six bridges. RWM gets an A+ (as usual) for correctly naming the railroads, past and present, that run over the bridges at Vicksburg and Baton Rouge. The roads that originally used the bridge at Thebes were the MoPac, SSW (Cotton Belt) and C&EI which of course today are all part of the UP. IIRC the Harahan Bridge at Memphis was originally used by both the MoPac and the Rock Island (Choctaw Route) while the SL-SF was the sole user of the Frisco Bridge. The Vicksburg Bridge is owned by Warren County Mississippi and, in addition to the railroad, carried US Hwy 80 across the River until shortly after the Interstate 20 bridge was built when it was closed to highway traffic. The bridges at Baton Rouge and New Orleans are both named the Huey P. Long Bridge (they were built when he was governor), are both owned by the State of Louisiana and are both rail and highway bridges. The HPL at New Orleans was used by the T&P and T&NO (subsidiary of the SP) which are both UP today. I'm not 100% sure but it may also be used by the New Orleans Public Belt. Snaggletooth, there is no other bridge between Thebes and Memphis. I believe you were thinking of the C&EI line that ended at Joppa on the Ohio River but did not cross it. 

I think Brian should be declared the winner since he was the first responder and correctly identified three of the six bridges. Also he hasn't had an opportunity to ask a question recently so fire away Brian, let's hear your question.

Mark 

[al-in-chgo]

Since this particular game is over and I've been declared the winner I'll name the two interurabans that I found by searching google. First was the Joliet Plainfield and Aurora. Following a bankruptcy it was reorganized into two distinct roads, the Joliet and Eastern and the Aurora Plainfield and Joliet.

You really know your interurbans, Mark. THe Trainwatchers Guide to Chicago shows 4 of them in Aurora. The CA&E from Chicago, and the AP&J from Joliet are two. You mentioned the Aurora, Elgin and Fox River Electric, which ran beside the River. The 4th was the Chicago, Aurora and De Kalb, which went west to De Kalb, parallel to the CMSP&P. 

Mark, Dale, whoever, I took the liberty of adding boldface and underlining a phrase that makes me ask a question:  Is a portion of that former (interurban?) (traction?) company the site of the Fox River Valley Electric Trolley Museum today?  (Despite the initial caps, I'm quite sure I didn't get the name exactly right, but it's fine if you want to correct me....) 

Also, and I speak now to everyone who's ever been to the museum, not just to traction and interurban mavens [I myself don't much care for the slang "wirehead"], is it a good museum to visit and how many hours at minimum do you think should be budgeted?  I'm ashamed to say that it's one of the "round tuit" places I haven't visited yet in my 20+ years in Chi, but in partial defense, when we've budgeted a good whole daylight day, Union calls!  -- al

[nanaimo73]

Since this particular game is over and I've been declared the winner I'll name the two interurabans that I found by searching google. First was the Joliet Plainfield and Aurora. Following a bankruptcy it was reorganized into two distinct roads, the Joliet and Eastern and the Aurora Plainfield and Joliet.

You really know your interurbans, Mark. THe Trainwatchers Guide to Chicago shows 4 of them in Aurora. The CA&E from Chicago, and the AP&J from Joliet are two. You mentioned the Aurora, Elgin and Fox River Electric, which ran beside the River. The 4th was the Chicago, Aurora and De Kalb, which went west to De Kalb, parallel to the CMSP&P. 

[snagletooth]

Vicksburg is used by KCS. Before that MidSouth, ICG, GM&O(?, or was it IC?), and before that the original railroad was... Vicksburg & Meridian?

Also, I believe there is a GM&O or KCS bridge in Baton Rouge. I seem to recall another (besides Thebes) near Cairo, Illinois owned by C&EI.  

[Railway Man]

The Vicksburg bridge was built by the Vicksburg Bridge & Terminal Co., a private toll-bridge company, and remains non-railroad owned.

Original user was the Yazoo & Mississippi Valley Railroad Co. (part of the Illinois Central System)., then Illinois Central, Illinois Central Gulf, Mid-South, then Kansas City Southern Railway.

Then Baton Rouge (Louisiana & Arkansas, T&P trackage rights, now L&A (KCS System) with UP rights), then New Orleans (T&NO, then SP, then UP, then BNSF with UP rights).  If I recall correctly -- this is from memory instead of looking at Dale's Excellent Page. 

RWM 

[KCSfan]

Oops, the Harahan Bridge is actually UP.  The next one down is also in Memphis- the Frisco Bridge, now used by BNSF.

Correct so we've got Thebes and the two at Memphis pinned down. RWM identified the one at Vicksburg but not the user. Also how about the others further south.

Mark

[blhanel]

Oops, the Harahan Bridge is actually UP.  The next one down is also in Memphis- the Frisco Bridge, now used by BNSF.

[KCSfan]

Twp more bridges to go but I also asked you to name the railroads that use each of them. The UP for the Thebes bridge is correct but the CN does not use the bridge across the Mighty Miss at Memphis. The only place the its predecessor, IC, ever operated in Arkansas was at Helena which it reached by means of a car ferry. The UP is also a user of the H P Long bridge at NO but other roads use it as well.

Mark

[Railway Man]

And my favorite, the Vicksburg bridge, which I last crossed on a back platform of an office car on an early spring evening, listening to the croak of bullfrogs and the creak of the intermodal cars. A fog bank was laying down on the river as if the black steel trestle bents were floating on a cloud.  Looking down we could see the lights of the barge tows glimmering through the fog, and a searchlight from a tugboat briefly flick on, glance across our train, then go dark. One of those moments when the railroad is truly wonderful (unlike looking glumly at my email at 0500 7 days a week).

RWM 

[blhanel]

Oops, I misread that, I thought you had asked for the next TWO.  There are two more besides mine and Murph's addition...

[Murphy Siding]

     The Huey P. Long bridge at New Orleans, UP, former SP?

[blhanel]

The Thebes Bridge at Thebes, IL (UP) and the Harahan Bridge at Memphis (CN).  Dale gets the credit for this one.

[KCSfan]

OK here's the next question. Where are the railroad bridges across the Mississippi River downstream from St. Louis located and what railroads currently use each of them? As a bonus name the railroads that formerly ran over each of them.

Mark

[KCSfan]

Since this particular game is over and I've been declared the winner I'll name the two interurabans that I found by searching google. First was the Joliet Plainfield and Aurora. Following a bankruptcy it was reorganized into two distinct roads, the Joliet and Eastern and the Aurora Plainfield and Joliet.

I'll think of a new question and post it in bit.

Marl

[KCSfan]

There was one road to Joliet and another to Dekalb. They later came under control of a class 1 road, and that's what I'm looking for. But extra points for anyone who can name those two lines original roads

Snaggletooth, in light of the info nananimo posted I'll add the Milw Road to my original four, the CB&Q, C&NW, EJ&E and CA&E. I still can't name the sixth road.

Mark

Snaggletooth,

My curiosity got the best of me so I searched the net and found the names of two interurbans that served Aurora in addition to the CA&E. Since that's considered "cheating" I'll hold off posting them and let someone else see if they can name them.

Mark

[snagletooth]

There was one road to Joliet and another to Dekalb. They later came under control of a class 1 road, and that's what I'm looking for. But extra points for anyone who can name those two lines original roads

Snaggletooth, in light of the info nananimo posted I'll add the Milw Road to my original four, the CB&Q, C&NW, EJ&E and CA&E. I still can't name the sixth road.

Mark

Actually, I erred in quoting 6 roads. It is only five. I apologize, and it makes KCSfan the winner. I was counting the Dekalb & Joliet roads, the lines the MLWK used to get into Aurora from the west

[CShaveRR]

There was one road to Joliet and another to Dekalb. They later came under control of a class 1 road, and that's what I'm looking for. But extra points for anyone who can name those two lines original roads

Snaggletooth, in light of the info nananimo posted I'll add the Milw Road to my original four, the CB&Q, C&NW, EJ&E and CA&E. I still can't name the sixth road.

Mark

Those five, plus the Aurora, Elgin & Fox River Electric?  The person who suggested that the interurban line along the Fox River should probably get credit.

[KCSfan]

There was one road to Joliet and another to Dekalb. They later came under control of a class 1 road, and that's what I'm looking for. But extra points for anyone who can name those two lines original roads

Snaggletooth, in light of the info nananimo posted I'll add the Milw Road to my original four, the CB&Q, C&NW, EJ&E and CA&E. I still can't name the sixth road.

Mark

[KCSfan]

I certainly could be wrong but I don't think the Milw Road ever ran to or thru Aurora.

The Milwaukee reached Aurora from De Kalb with a line that was abandoned in 1943. From there, they had trackage rights on the EJ&E to Joliet, and then another line to Momence.

Thanks nanaimo for enabling me to meet my objective of learning something new each day. I remember the Milw road operation from Joliet southeast to around Momence where it met  their former CT&SE line from Chicago to southern Indiana but was not aware of the Joliet - Aurora -Dekalb line.

Mark

[nanaimo73]

I certainly could be wrong but I don't think the Milw Road ever ran to or thru Aurora.

The Milwaukee reached Aurora from De Kalb with a line that was abandoned in 1943. From there, they had trackage rights on the EJ&E to Joliet, and then another line to Momence.

[snagletooth]

There was one road to Joliet and another to Dekalb. They later came under control of a class 1 road, and that's what I'm looking for. But extra points for anyone who can name those two lines original roads

[KCSfan]

I certainly could be wrong but I don't think the Milw Road ever ran to or thru Aurora.

Off the top of my head I can think of only four.

CB&Q, C&NW, EJ&E, CA&E

I seem to remember that at one time Aurora was served by at least one other interurban road  that possibly ran between Aurora and Joliet but I'm at a loss to come up with its name. I vaguely recall that there may have been a road with Fox River as part of its name but I can't remember any more than that.

Unless it was the CRI&P (and I don't actually believe it ever did) I can't think of any other major road that might at one time have served Aurora.

Mark

[nanaimo73]

The Milwaukee Road was one of them.

[snagletooth]

Well, it looks like I finally got one.

OK, my hometown of Aurora, IL. is well known for the CB&Q, now BNSF. At one time, Aurora had 6 railroads serving it (not including the local streetcar operations). Name those 6 six railroads.

[al-in-chgo]

Is it now time for someone to post a new question?  - al

 

[Zwingle]

Oops, I missed snagletooth's response.  My apologies.

[Zwingle]

I forgot the line extended to Garrison. Oops.

Next question,

During 1967, there were 7 different freight railroads connecting Chicago with Omaha/Council Bluffs. From north to south, these were Chicago Great Western; Illinois Central; Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific; Chicago and North Western; Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific; Chicago, Burlington and Quincy; and the Norfolk and Western. Ten years later (1977) there were still 7 different freight railroads connecting Chicago with Omaha/Council Bluffs. What were they ?

I'm pretty good at anything involving maps.  Railroad maps from all time periods are burned into my brain.   It's interesting how we all have our areas of specialty.  (For example, I know nothing about diesel locomotives - they mostly look the same to me.)

Let's see....

The CGW was aquired by C&NW in 1968.  Most of the Illinois portion of this line was abandoned by 1972.

 1977:

1. ICG

2. CMStP&P  (Just a few years before this line was discontinued.  I remember those trains blasting by at 10 MPH.  Smoke would be everywhere.)

3. C&NW

4. CRI&P (Rock Island shut down in 1980; IAIS didn't come around until 1984.  The interim Iowa Railroad Co. never reached Chicago, stopping at Bureau, IL.)

5. BN

6. N&W (NS in 1982.  They later discontinued their track to Council Bluffs.)

7. Mo-Pac (via aquired C&EI trackage into Chicago.)

[nanaimo73]

1. CNW 2. CRIP 3. MLWK 4. BN 5. NW 6. ICG 7. MP  

Well done. These are the seven I was looking for. MP joined the club in 1976.

Dale, aren't we due something of a hint at this point?  Or at least indicate where any of us has erred?   - a. s.

Sorry about that Al, something came up and I've been dealing with it for the last 8 hours.

[al-in-chgo]

 

Re: Railroad History Quiz Game (Come on in and play)

During 1967, there were 7 different freight railroads connecting Chicago with Omaha/Council Bluffs. From north to south, these were Chicago Great Western; Illinois Central; Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific; Chicago and North Western; Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific; Chicago, Burlington and Quincy; and the Norfolk and Western. Ten years later (1977) there were still 7 different freight railroads connecting Chicago with Omaha/Council Bluffs. What were they ? 

Dale, you are one stern taskmaster!  A correct answer calls not only for comprehensive historical knowledge but also the complicated logic I recall from the Grad Record Exam!  " border="0" width="25" height="20" />

I hope I won't be any wronger than the norm . . .  not sure, but here's a guesstimate, and no attempt to order them geographically:

1. CNW

2. Burlington Northern

3. Soo

4.  CRI&P, but only if the "suitors" hadn't struck yet.   (I do recall the co. had to run a Rocket post-1971 because, like Sou.Rwy. and D&RGW, they hadn't joined Amtrak, not that the arrangement necessarily lasted after CRI&P entered receivership.)  Note that you asked for seven roads that "stretched" Chgo to Council Bluffs; so even if the line was in receivership and not operating, it would still "stretch", no?  (assuming the track was extant in 1977, and I believe it was). 

5. IC (if 1977 was pre-Whitman Corp. severance of branch lines fr mainlines) 

6. CN

7.  [old] Wisconsin Central

<<alternate substitute answer for nos. 4 and 5 above:  ATSF; Iowa Interstate; Milwaukee Road>>

(Note to contestants:  Readers, IIRC from the book MAIN LINES, at some point the Chgo Gt Western lines were ripped up; remember Saunders relating that the N-S, E-W axis of company lines X'ing at Oelwein, IA, were ripped up and no trace remaining.  Track may have been ripped up post-Staggers act in the early eighties but as far as I know no one ever took over CGW and tried to run it; according to Saunders, their lines were hilly, and they didn't upgrade to heavier rail when they should have, lack of $$$.  That's why I scratched CGW entirely.)

Dale, aren't we due something of a hint at this point?  Or at least indicate where any of us has erred?   - a. s.

 

---

al-in-chgo

PS:  Sorry for the redundant and awkward formatting.  I kept getting 404's when I tried to post so cut-and-pasted the whole durn thing.  -- hope it worked!