Mark did you read my previous hint. It involved another RR beginning in 1956. The Royal Gorge did something between Denver and Colorado Springs in both directions that involved another RR.
Al - in - Stockton
Oh, just between Colo Spgs and Denver. If whatever it was the Royal Gorge did involved any one of the C&S, Santa Fe or MP I think it would have taken place between Pueblo and Denver. But at Colo Spgs you throw the Rock Island into the mix so I'm guessing the RI was the other road. The only thing I can think of is that Rocky Mtn Rocket equipment was deadheaded between Colo Spgs and Denver on the Royal Gorge but for what reason I can't imagine. The schedules of the two trains and the 4 hour layover of the Rocket between its arrival and departure at/from Colo Spgs would rule that out anyway. Beyond this my powers of deductive reasoning fail me and unless I come up with a brainstorm I'm stumped.
Mark
Okay Mark and Al I guess I will have to give it to you.
In 1956 the CB&Q inaugurated the new Denver Zephyr and four cars from each days consist were forwarded by the Royal Gorge to and from Colorado Springs from Denver. The timekeeping of the Royal Gorge was liesurely so even a 30 minute to 1 hour late DZ could easily be accommodated. The timekeeping of the DZ ranked up there with the finest trains it being rarely late. The Royal Gorge stopped each day in its namesake for ten minutes to permit the passengers to get off stretch and view the gorge itself. This is where the famous hanging bridge is located.
Today a tourist operator in Colorado is taking full advantage of the Royal Gorge by operating a tourist train daily in the summer months to the famous canyon.
Al,
A very interesting arrangement of which I had no idea. That would put the Q in competetion with the RI for Colorado Springs passengers. How did the Chi - Colo Spgs time of the DZ compare with that of the Rocky Mtn Rocket?
Here's the next question for all to ponder. What two railroads comprised the "Natchez Route", how were the two physically connected and what were the two end points of the Natchez Route?
KCSfan wrote: Al,A very interesting arrangement of which I had no idea. That would put the Q in competetion with the RI for Colorado Springs passengers. How did the Chi - Colo Spgs time of the DZ compare with that of the Rocky Mtn Rocket?Here's the next question for all to ponder. What two railroads comprised the "Natchez Route", how were the two physically connected and what were the two end points of the Natchez Route?Mark
Now I have to ponder your question for awhile.
from prior post by passengerfan: "Mark the DZ time to the Springs was two hours faster than the Rocky Mountain Rocket. And the DZ equipment was brand new the last full service long distance train to enter service prior to Amtrak."
I have to assume long-distance precludes merely intercity, because Metroliner trainsets did not start running in revenue service until after the Penn Central merger (Feb. 1968).
KCSfan wrote:Al,A very interesting arrangement of which I had no idea. That would put the Q in competetion with the RI for Colorado Springs passengers. How did the Chi - Colo Spgs time of the DZ compare with that of the Rocky Mtn Rocket?Here's the next question for all to ponder. What two railroads comprised the "Natchez Route", how were the two physically connected and what were the two end points of the Natchez Route?Mark
Great Northern and Milwakee Road, Spokane and Seattle (just a shot in the dark)
chad thomas wrote: KCSfan wrote: Al,A very interesting arrangement of which I had no idea. That would put the Q in competetion with the RI for Colorado Springs passengers. How did the Chi - Colo Spgs time of the DZ compare with that of the Rocky Mtn Rocket?Here's the next question for all to ponder. What two railroads comprised the "Natchez Route", how were the two physically connected and what were the two end points of the Natchez Route?MarkGreat Northern and Milwakee Road, Spokane and Seattle (just a shot in the dark)
Re: KCS and IC, junction in LA connecting to Natchez (IOW, a wild guess).
al-in-chgo wrote: Re: KCS and IC, junction in LA connecting to Natchez (IOW, a wild guess).
You're warm, very warm. It wasn't the IC or the KCS but one of the roads later became a part of the IC and the other one became a part of the KCS.
KCSfan wrote: al-in-chgo wrote: Re: KCS and IC, junction in LA connecting to Natchez (IOW, a wild guess). Al,You're warm, very warm. It wasn't the IC or the KCS but one of the roads later became a part of the IC and the other one became a part of the KCS.Mark
Well, Mark, the one that later became part of the IC would be the Gulf, Mobile and Ohio but I can't off the top of my head think of any predecessor lines to KCS, except for a couple in Texas.
Once again, half a point???
Sorry Al but not the GM&O which didn't serve Natchez. I remember a trip on US84 (hint) in 1966 when I was lucky enough to see an ancient IC steam pile driver rebuilding a trestle on the old Natchez Route in Mississippi.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR wrote:Louisiana & Arkansas/Mississippi Central?
Very good Carl it was the L&A and the Miss Central. How about taking a stab at the other parts of the question: How were the two roads physically connected and what were the end points of the Natchez Route? It was promoted as a bridge route between the southeast and west but was doomed to fail because of the answer to one of these two remaining questions.
Carl,
It's time for another question anyway so since you got the two railroads correct I'll declare you the winner.
Actually there never was a railroad bridge across the Mississippi River at Natchez so the Miss Central and L&A were not physically connected. Rail cars were carried across the river between Natchez and Vidalia, LA on a ferry. Until 1930 when the Yazoo & Mississippi Valley (IC) bridge at Vicksburg was completed there wasn't a RR bridge south of the Frisco's at Memphis. With the opening of the bridge at Vicksburg most of the Natchez Route's through traffic was lost to the Y&MV/IC which effectively ended its days as a through route connecting the IC, Southern and GM&N at Hattiesburg to the KCS, T&P, T&NO and Cotton Belt at Shreveport.
Let's have another question Carl.
Hmmm.
Natchez...Vicksburg...I guess I need a reorientation trip down that way.
Meantime, what was the name of the MP subsidiary that went down the Louisiana delta, and which town did it ultimately reach?
CShaveRR wrote: Hmmm.Natchez...Vicksburg...I guess I need a reorientation trip down that way.Meantime, what was the name of the MP subsidiary that went down the Louisiana delta, and which town did it ultimately reach?
The railroad went as far as Buras deep in the Mississippi Delta some 60 miles south of New Orleans but its name eludes me. I'll think on it and maybe the name of the road will come back to me in a brainstorm.
Tuned in late today. But I believe it was the International Great Northern.
As I lay in bed last night the question kept nagging me. All I could think of was New Orleans and North Eastern which of course I knew wasn't right because the NO&NE was part of the Southern Railway's Washington-New Orleans main line. When I awoke this am the name New Orleans & Lower Mississippi popped into my head but that doesn't seem quite right either. If that wasn't the name maybe it was the NO & Lower Gulf or NO & Lower Coast. I just can't remember for sure.
P.S. Another possibility came to mind later; NO & Lower Delta. Not being able to remember exactly is beginning to frustrate me.
KCSfan wrote: As I lay in bed last night the question kept nagging me. All I could think of was New Orleans and North Eastern which of course I knew wasn't right because the NO&NE was part of the Southern Railway's Washington-New Orleans main line. When I awoke this am the name New Orleans & Lower Mississippi popped into my head but that doesn't seem quite right either. If that wasn't the name maybe it was the NO & Lower Gulf or NO & Lower Coast. I just can't remember for sure. MarkP.S. Another possibility came to mind later; NO & Lower Delta. Not being able to remember exactly is beginning to frustrate me.
It's in your response somewhere, fer shore! Just keep drifting and you'll stumble on it.
CShaveRR wrote: KCSfan wrote: As I lay in bed last night the question kept nagging me. All I could think of was New Orleans and North Eastern which of course I knew wasn't right because the NO&NE was part of the Southern Railway's Washington-New Orleans main line. When I awoke this am the name New Orleans & Lower Mississippi popped into my head but that doesn't seem quite right either. If that wasn't the name maybe it was the NO & Lower Gulf or NO & Lower Coast. I just can't remember for sure. MarkP.S. Another possibility came to mind later; NO & Lower Delta. Not being able to remember exactly is beginning to frustrate me.It's in your response somewhere, fer shore! Just keep drifting and you'll stumble on it.
Does the geographic description "West Point" figure into the name of the answer? (I mean the southern one, of course, not the military academy on the Hudson.)
I've ruled out two names but I'm still stuck with two possibilities, NO & Lower Delta and NO & Lower Coast. I've come to an answer by a very scientific method. I wrote down both names on slips of paper, closed my eyes, shuffled them up a bit and pulled out New Orleans & Lower Coast so that's my final answer (unless it's wrong in which case I'll be back at you with the other one).
New Orleans & Lower West Point? I don't think so, Tim...I mean, Al!
I'd better quit giving these hints!
Oops, I just saw that Mark came up with the correct answer. That takes care of my Saturday night entertainment and punny hints segment.
We all know that the Missouri Pacific was the major railroad serving Arkansas with more miles of trackage in that state than any other road. The same was true of the Illinois Central in Mississippi. Each of them made a minor incursion into the others "turf". Where and what was the nature of the MoPac's operations in Mississippi and the IC's operations in Arkansas?
KCSfan wrote: We all know that the Missouri Pacific was the major railroad serving Arkansas with more miles of trackage in that state than any other road. The same was true of the Illinois Central in Mississippi. Each of them made a minor incursion into the others "turf". Where and what was the nature of the MoPac's operations in Mississippi and the IC's operations in Arkansas?Mark
Did these two examples of "encroachment," if that's the word, take place at the same time?
If so, how'd you like to tell us in what decade these events took place? - a.s.
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