CShaveRR wrote: al-in-chgo wrote:WAG time! It was a branch of the Chicago Great Western that ran from Rondout to Aurora. Wrong on all counts?? - a.s.Nice try, Al! Think local affiliate of a major eastern railroad.
al-in-chgo wrote:WAG time! It was a branch of the Chicago Great Western that ran from Rondout to Aurora. Wrong on all counts?? - a.s.
Well I know locally it linked Mayfair to Evanstan, and that it was built between 1876 and 1895.
Ok finally found a map dated 1879 that calls it the "Indiana Bxxxx Line". xxx being unreadable. Belt? maybe
Ok here we go. EJ&E. Elgin, Joliet and Eastern. On the bigger scheme of things appears to still be in business linking Waukegan, Illinois, to Gary, Indiana.
Nice try, Al! Think local affiliate of a major eastern railroad.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
KCSfan wrote: Sorry about the Milwaukee Road guys but the Pacific in its name, Chicago Milwaukee St. Paul & Pacific, rules it out.Mark
Sorry about the Milwaukee Road guys but the Pacific in its name, Chicago Milwaukee St. Paul & Pacific, rules it out.
Mark
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
CShaveRR wrote: OK; I'll stick to Chicago, since everybody knows a lot about it .On the City's northwest side (east and a little bit south of O'Hare), there's a street, Forest Preserve Drive, that runs from southwest to northeast, cutting across the otherwise orderly grid of Chicago streets. Most people don't know it, but this was once a railroad--and one of the big guys! I've seen maps showing this line, yet can't confirm that it was actually built. My first knowledge of this line was from a map in a large study proposing electrification of main lines in Chicago, back in the early part of the Twentieth Century. Assuming that it existed:1. Whose line was it?2. From where to where did it run? (The street itself doesn't extend to either end-point, and both end-points are still well-known rail junctions.)Hint: The northern half of Chicago was dominated, historically, by three railroads: C&NW, MILW, and Soo Line. The railroad owning this line was not one of those three.
OK; I'll stick to Chicago, since everybody knows a lot about it .
On the City's northwest side (east and a little bit south of O'Hare), there's a street, Forest Preserve Drive, that runs from southwest to northeast, cutting across the otherwise orderly grid of Chicago streets. Most people don't know it, but this was once a railroad--and one of the big guys! I've seen maps showing this line, yet can't confirm that it was actually built. My first knowledge of this line was from a map in a large study proposing electrification of main lines in Chicago, back in the early part of the Twentieth Century. Assuming that it existed:
1. Whose line was it?
2. From where to where did it run? (The street itself doesn't extend to either end-point, and both end-points are still well-known rail junctions.)
Hint: The northern half of Chicago was dominated, historically, by three railroads: C&NW, MILW, and Soo Line. The railroad owning this line was not one of those three.
WAG time! It was a branch of the Chicago Great Western that ran from Rondout to Aurora. Wrong on all counts?? - a.s.
The third longest road was the Soo, Minneapolis St. Paul & Sault Ste. Marie. Since Carl was the first to correctly name all three roads he gets the cigar and is up to ask the next question.
KCSfan wrote: In pre-merger times many major US RR's had only cities in their corporate names; e.g., Spokane, Portland & Seattle. What were the three biggest roads in order of route miles that fit this category and actually served (unlike the St. Louis - San Francisco) all the cities in their names?
Second is Chicago Burlington & Quincy - Definitely served all those towns and while its main line was not as long as others with Pacific in the name.
Last place would be the Louisville & Wadley? 10 miles between the two. These days Louisville is no longer connected and they only have 2 miles of track.
Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago & St. Louis?
Minneapolis, St. Paul & Sault Sainte Marie?
CShaveRR wrote: Mark, my mother's older than you are by almost a decade.Anyway, to your challenge, I'd have to say:1. Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe2. Chicago, Burlington & Quincy3. Los Angeles & Salt LakeAnd, just in case...4. New York, New Haven & Hartford
Mark, my mother's older than you are by almost a decade.
Anyway, to your challenge, I'd have to say:
1. Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe
2. Chicago, Burlington & Quincy
3. Los Angeles & Salt Lake
And, just in case...
4. New York, New Haven & Hartford
1 & 2 are correct but not 3 or 4.
The third road had a good many more route miles than did either the LA&SL or the New Haven.
This thread's been quiet too long so here's another question.
In pre-merger times many major US RR's had only cities in their corporate names; e.g., Spokane, Portland & Seattle. What were the three biggest roads in order of route miles that fit this category and actually served (unlike the St. Louis - San Francisco) all the cities in their names?
CShaveRR wrote: Mark, unless you're older than my mother, you wouldn't have seen the C&O using the IC.
Mark, unless you're older than my mother, you wouldn't have seen the C&O using the IC.
Carl,
I don't know your mother's age but I'm a pretty old geezer. I'll be 76 on Sept. 30th. The only trace of the C&O that I ever saw was an infrequent glimpse of one of their Mikes at the IC's 23rd St passenger engine roundhouse.
Your Louisville Jct question was a toughie. While I finally got the C&O as the RR, I was way off in my thinking as to where the Jct was located. I had in mind a location in central or southern IL, not Chicagoland. I lived the first 27 years of my life along the IC (Flossmoor and Homewood) and often rode the IC "wickerliners" into the city. When most IC passenger trains were still steam powered they had a roundhouse at, IIRC, 23rd St. and as a kid remember seeing C&O Mikes on the leads there and was always fascinated by their smokebox mounted air pumps. I never saw a train with a C&O engine and caboose on IC rails which leads me to think they were handed off to the IHB for switching and only their engines run on to the IC roundhouse where they were serviced and turned.
Did Mudhicken ask a question or am I up for the next one?
Carl:
Your Louisville Junction question has an ironic second answer and it has nada to do with Illinois (But does involve another railroad that started in Illinois, is at one of the western ends of that railroad)
Al - It was indeed Cincinnati, IA on the CB&Q....The railroad was there 1876-1952 and started as the Burlington & Southwestern/ a coal mine railroad connection! CB&Q got a hold of it in 1902 which started a long decline.
With a little bit of steering, you've got the pertinent details, Mark. Here's the rest of the story, as much as I can piece together.
First of all, the line which became the C&O of Indiana was previously known as the Chicago, Cincinnati & Louisville. That's the best excuse I can come up with for the Louisville Junction name.
At some time, the CC&L/C&OofI built, acquired, or otherwise came to operate the Hammond Belt Railway. It crossed the Erie main line at the later location of HY Tower in Hammond, which was the end of the C&O of Indiana trackage. There was a large facility at this location, including engine servicing facilities. The railroad went east from this location to Osborn, and westward to to the Illinois border, where it curved northwestward and joined the Indiana Harbor Belt at Louisville Junction, a short distance west of the PRR crossing of the IHB and B&OCT at Calumet Park.
Here's where the conflicting information comes in. A map I saw showed the C&O then using the IHB main line to head west to about Dolton/Riverdale, where a connection brought it to the Illinois Central for entry into Chicago. The SPV Railroad Atlas (which, by the way, doesn't show the Louisville Junction name) suggests that the belt line crossed the IHB main line and the B&OCT at this spot, joining instead the IHB/Michigan Central main line up to Kensington Junction, where the MC connected with the IC.
The Hammond Belt was apparently abandoned in the mid-1920s. After that time, the C&O used Erie trackage to get from HY Tower to State Line and the Chicago & Western Indiana (an arrangement that lasted until Conrail Day in 1976). At some point, C&O and Erie began jointly using both of their main tracks between Griffith and HY Tower.
I think it's most likely to be the C&O so I'll make that my answer. I think the C&O reached Louisville by way of trackage rights over the L&N from Winchester.
The Southern had their own line running from Frankfort through Louisville and on west across IN and IL with direct connections at several points with the IC. It had no reason to use the L&N to access Louisville or to use any other roads to connect with the IC. I can't visualize the N&W having any connection to Chicago other than the PRR from Cincy.
That leaves the C&O but I'm hard pressed to understand the Louisville connection since they had their own line running from Cincy across OH and IN to Chicago. I'm guessing that the B&O and possibly also the Monon formed the route between Louisville and the connection with the IC.
Don't feel dumb, Mark--it is one of your three finalists.
I should warn you that the connection into Chicago (via IC and another line or two) is not the one that's normally thought of when considering this railroad through most of the 20th Century--at least up to 1976.
Westernmost instead of easternmost sure makes a difference in the possible cast of characters and makes it an eastern not a western or southwestern road as I had previously been thinking.
I can rule out the NYC, PRR and B&O since their westernmost reach was St. Louis and also all three had their own lines into Louisville. Unless I've overlooked another, this leaves only three possibilities; C&O, N&W, and Southern; all of which could have reached Louisville via the L&N from the east or southeast. I think I can rule out the N&W whose connection into Chicago would likely have been over the PRR from Cincinatti and not by a route through Louisville. I don't know when the C&O built or acquired its own line between Cincy and Chicago but is seems likely that prior to that time its connection into Chicago would not have been through Louisville but over the Big Four from Cincy.
If my reasoning is correct this leaves only the Southern. In the early years of the 20th century the SR may not yet have acquired its own line between Lexington and St. Louis and could possibly have a routing over over connecting roads through Louisville. If that's the right answer its subsidiary RR would be the CNO&TP. But there's a problem with the SR being the road in question since its westernmost point (prior to reaching St. Louis) would be Memphis.
I'm going to feel pretty dumb if another major road is the correct answer and I've overlooked it.
No to botm MILW and MoPac, Mark. I really did mean the westernmost point, and it's in Illinois (barely!).
I have conflicting information on which line Louisville Junction was also located--the name of the railroad is the same, though. At the time (and this is important!) the railroad involved used the Illinois Central to get to Chicago, and the L&N to get to Louisville.
I was going to say the Milwaukee Road (Chicago Terre Haute & Southeastern) which (I think) at one time may have reached Louisville, KY via the NYC. Your mention that Louisville Jct. was in Illinois rules that out since this Milw Rd line terminated in southern Indiana and also was its easternmost point not its westernmost point as stated in your original question.
As a alternative answer, and this is really just a SWAG, I'll say the MoPac and its subsidiary the Missouri Illinois. The other road by which it reached Louisville would then likely be the Southern Railway.
So's everyone else, it looks like.
So I'll answer a couple of them: Louisville Junction was in Illinois, and the end-point to which some of the trains went is Chicago.
When I first learned about this line, there was very little physical evidence that it ever existed. Since then, even some of that evidence has been lost to encroaching civilization.
CShaveRR wrote: There is. At one time it was on the Q.I have another multi-part question.For a while in the early 20th Century, Louisville Junction was the westernmost point on the main line of which major railroad?Which state are we talking about?Which other railroad was at this junction?Beyond this end point, which railroads did our mystery line use to get to where it was going?Hint: I'm not talkin' about Louisville.Bonus question: what was the name of the railroad's subsidiary on which Louisville Junction was really located?Another hint: Louisville, Kentucky, is the "Louisville" referred to in Louisville Junction. However, the line in question never went to, or toward, Louisville. The railroad itself reached Louisville via the rails of another line.
There is. At one time it was on the Q.
I have another multi-part question.
For a while in the early 20th Century, Louisville Junction was the westernmost point on the main line of which major railroad?
Which state are we talking about?
Which other railroad was at this junction?
Beyond this end point, which railroads did our mystery line use to get to where it was going?
Hint: I'm not talkin' about Louisville.
Bonus question: what was the name of the railroad's subsidiary on which Louisville Junction was really located?
Another hint: Louisville, Kentucky, is the "Louisville" referred to in Louisville Junction. However, the line in question never went to, or toward, Louisville. The railroad itself reached Louisville via the rails of another line.
Well, I'm stumped . - al
Is there a Cincinnati in Iowa.
Al - in - Stockton
Carl, why don't you go ahead and answer and ask your question. You and I seem to be the only ones who had a clue, and I know I had to refresh my memory as to were it was.
Strangely, I may have gone thru Cincinnati last year on vacation. I was going to turn to go thru Exline, but missed the turnoff and took a different route. Looking at a map, I notice Omaha isn't too far off over the state line. Not the Nebraska one, though.
Jeff
PS. MC, I hope I haven't ruffled any feathers by throwing out a hint or two.
I got one, but not so fast, there! We need an answer on that other Cincinnati first.
(I looked it up, sort of.)
CShaveRR wrote: Oooh! MC, how could you?You're the winner, though. Lang was a D&TS property, I believe.But Walbridge (the classification yard) and Presque Isle (the coal-dumping facility), though correctly identified as Hocking Valley in origin (at least for the 20th Century) were C&O facilities from 1930 until 1985 or whenever CSX became the surviving entity.
Oooh! MC, how could you?
You're the winner, though. Lang was a D&TS property, I believe.
But Walbridge (the classification yard) and Presque Isle (the coal-dumping facility), though correctly identified as Hocking Valley in origin (at least for the 20th Century) were C&O facilities from 1930 until 1985 or whenever CSX became the surviving entity.
Is it safe to come out yet? It be part of the old home state which I thought I knew a little about. I threw out a softball for someone to hit out of da park and nobody got it. Somebody throw out a new one!
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