EMD and GE - Why so much anti GE feeling on the list? Light the blue touchpaper and retire

[kenneo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1



kenno dont leave the disscusions here on engines.. this is why i made my statement . a bit wordy but the main thing is not to argue with opinion but state the facts. and i was thinking i did this with the b30-7 to emds gp38.

Please don't misunderstand. Statement of opinion, proving of our point and educating each other are all valid here. Whether done softly, or as The Mook said, vigorously. All of that is OK and actually an important part of these forums.

Take a look at the first few messages in this thread. I speak only for myself, but it reminds me of Missouri, and I absolutely do not want to go there again. What hurts worse, well it hurts me, anyway, is that these folks that are bashing each other are each one a valuable member of our group. My life is richer because of them and this absolutely includes you and Kevin. I'm sure that yours is also. You can say the same thing two different ways. One will make people angry, the other way will make them happy.

I am not going to leave the Forums. But my time is limited and I really don't have any extra time to wade through messages filled with anger or the "I'm going to have the last word even if I have to beat you bloody to get it" messages. One of the things we are here to do is to have fun with each other such as teasing MC about detouring around Lincoln to avoid beeing "Food-dujour-ala-Mook". Let's work hard to keep it that way. And teaching each other while we, in turn, are being taught.

Now, off my [soapbox] and putting a sock in it.

[Anonymous]

I have nothing against GE locomotives . we must remember that GE was not always GE . from what i understand GE came from a list of loco builders. was it not ALCO LOCOMOTIVE WORKS . was it apart of FAIRBANKS MORSE LOCOMOTIVE WORKS . if not then my mistake.. but i do know that GE's are good engines. and at one point they ran some of our best trains. just like AMTRAK . yes EMD IS A VERY GOOD LOCOMOTIVE. BUT SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO GIVE RESPECT WERE RESPECT IS DO...

[BaltACD]

GE's under load just sound BAD.

I can't explain it,GE's just aren't pleasing to the ear, at least not my ears.

[Anonymous]

GE IS WORTHLESS BECAUSE LOOK AT THE SD40-2 THEY'ED LASTED 30 YEARS COMPARDE TO THE C30-7 WHICH LASTED ABOUT 20

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Doggy

GE IS WORTHLESS BECAUSE LOOK AT THE SD40-2 THEY'ED LASTED 30 YEARS COMPARDE TO THE C30-7 WHICH LASTED ABOUT 20

Dear Doggy,
I don't want to start bashing people, but please don't judge a company on one product a long time ago. You wouldn't judge humanity based on one person, now would you? I admit, the C30-7 was pretty much a doosy, but I agree with antbro: let's give respect where respect is due. I like GE's and Alco's, but EMD makes nice products too (especially those E-units...it puts a smile on my face to just think about them[:)]). And so did Baldwin (although their passenger diesels didn't do very well), F-M, Lima (and B-L-H), Cooke, Davenport, Porter, Vulcan, Rogers, MLW, and everyone else (including DWB--Daniel's Work Bench[:)]). Now, I admit that being a railfan I am somewhat biased--GE's DASH-9's and such look better in my photos, but that's not the only reason I like them. I have cited numerous quotes from more learned authorities than me, and I can tell BaltACD that DASH-9's sound pretty nice to me under load on Tehachapi Loop (or Marias Pass for that matter). And let us not forget one other, very important thing--companies' products evolve (and hopefully improve) over time, so what GE (or EMD) made 30 years ago is probably much different than what they make today.

You all know what I'm going to say about steam, so I'll skip the size six letters and Lime Green color this time.

Most respectfully yours,
Daniel

[Anonymous]

Look, If I may interjecy about Ge's and EMD's

Each compnay is their own, They build their own Products, and they believe they are the best, in the 50's the GM slogan Or EMd, excuse me was.. "Good Trains follow GM locomotives."

Perhaps tyhe point I am trying to make is that the fact that is has 6 Axels, a horn, and lights. Seems picture perfect to me doesn't it?

Oh and good news, pictures usually don't capture sound.. So the admirers of your picture won't be dumb-struck by the pitch of a GE.

[wabash1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Doggy

GE IS WORTHLESS BECAUSE LOOK AT THE SD40-2 THEY'ED LASTED 30 YEARS COMPARDE TO THE C30-7 WHICH LASTED ABOUT 20

If i remeber correctly the sd40-2 is a tweeked version of the sd40. we have both sd40 and sd40-2. now i can give my opinion of the c30-7 but there is no need. they are no longer around and thank god for this. but you cant judge a company by one bad engine. back in 1970 the auto manufactor had a race to see who could build a small econo car the ford line came out with pinto and of course the gm version was the chevy version was the vega followed by pontiac sunbird even dodge had one. ( what ever it was) now the pinto was pretty good til you got hit from the rear. and the vega was a fun toy but rusted like crazy. yet nobody holds this agains the manufactures and these cars are not made anylonger either. except for the sunbird and it is now called the sunfire. (seems pontiac got it right ) why all this GE builds good locos ( sometimes) and emd builds good locos each has its place . neither would be in buisness if it didnt try to meet the demands of its customers. I am guilty of bashing ge on a regular basis but my reason for not likeing them is for reasons that most people love them or think the service they should be in. the dash 8 and 9s are great in slow drag flood dump and load coal service could not beat them or would i want anything else if working this type service. but in fast freight give me emd. Now back to the topic on c30-7s i found that one of these engines in your consist would give great light shows. a 4ft flame out the stack can get the dispatchers phone ringing by well meaning conserned citizens telling him the engine is on fire. and to convice the dispatcher that the engine was not on fire was another feet. the conversation went something like this ns dispatcher to train abc over.... train abc over.... i have a report that you have a engine on fire over .... not true its just flame out of the stack over... well they say it is need you to check it out over... dispatcher there is no need to i can see that it is not on fire over..... i need you to stop and check it out now over.. ok we will stop and look at the lead engine we are on to make sure it is not on fire over..... your lead engine over..... yes this is the engine throwing the flames over ... never mind then dispatcher out.

[AlcoRS11Nut]

Get any ALCO's over there?

[espeefoamer]

Even the best builder can turn out a turkey once in a while .A good example of this is the SD 50.EMD got complaints about this unit, so they came up with the SD60.The rest is history.[:)] ...Hmmm,It has 6 axles,horns and a light...IT MUST BE A PA!![:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

Look, If I may interjecy about Ge's and EMD's

Each compnay is their own, They build their own Products, and they believe they are the best, in the 50's the GM slogan Or EMd, excuse me was.. "Good Trains follow GM locomotives."

Perhaps tyhe point I am trying to make is that the fact that is has 6 Axels, a horn, and lights. Seems picture perfect to me doesn't it?

Oh and good news, pictures usually don't capture sound.. So the admirers of your picture won't be dumb-struck by the pitch of a GE.

Dear Kevin,
They won't be dumbstruck by the sound. They'll be dumbstruck by how horrible the picture is! (Except for the one that's going to win the Railfan and Railroad photo contest any day now).

Dear wabash1,
Actually, aside from the name and number of wheels the SD40 and SD40-2 have very little in common. The -2 is larger, more powerful, and more likely to be cited as an example of EMD locomotives!!!!

Saw an EMD E8, UP 2-8-2, Pacific Electric Red Cars, and a 2-6-2 undergoing boiler work today. Whoever can tell me what museum I went to today wins a prize!

See you around the forum,
Daniel

[Anonymous]

MAN! You saw an E8??

I hope you got a picture, CP rail only ever had 3, of which none ever showed up in Montreal..

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29
[br
Saw an EMD E8, UP 2-8-2, Pacific Electric Red Cars, and a 2-6-2 undergoing boiler work today. Whoever can tell me what museum I went to today wins a prize!

Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29
[br
Saw an EMD E8, UP 2-8-2, Pacific Electric Red Cars, and a 2-6-2 undergoing boiler work today. Whoever can tell me what museum I went to today wins a prize!

Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris?

Dear dharmon,
Congratulations! you win the prize! What's the prize? You are one step closer to learining my full name (I think there are more than one Daniel's that are members of OERM). By the way, are you a member?

Man, you know your railway museums a bit too well,
Daniel

[Anonymous]

I don't see why these railfans and railroaders are so Anti-GE.

It seems no matter what EMD does, like now improving their products and dominating the export market, GM as seem to want to unload EMD. While GE has never never even hinted at selling the Erie plant.

You guys seem to have more faith than EMD'd corporate parent.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29
[br
Saw an EMD E8, UP 2-8-2, Pacific Electric Red Cars, and a 2-6-2 undergoing boiler work today. Whoever can tell me what museum I went to today wins a prize!

Orange Empire Railway Museum in Perris?

Dear dharmon,
Congratulations! you win the prize! What's the prize? You are one step closer to learining my full name (I think there are more than one Daniel's that are members of OERM). By the way, are you a member?

Man, you know your railway museums a bit too well,
Daniel

No I'm not a member and to tell the truth, it's only one of a couple that I''ve been to. But it was in Oct that I went there last, for the pumpkin train. Had a great time.

[wabash1]

the sd40 and sd40-2 the dash2 is bigger? more powerful? all i can tell you is in tonnage ratings they are both the same, they dont rate it any more than a regular sd40. bigger in size? ive never measured one, In using one you cant tell the differance in units. All sd40s are the same to most who use them. noisy but a good engine. very few problems very dependable. and to a railroader you never here us report them as a sd40-2 when ask what we have its always a sd40 only.

[Anonymous]

Dear dharmon,
I'm glad you enjoyed the Pumpkin train.

Sincerely,
Daniel

[Anonymous]

One thing I like about the steam loco is, it will run on anything that will boil water, wood,
coal, oil, uranium, or whatever. The SP's 4449 & SP&S 700 are oil burners and according to the 4449's engineeer it is as easy to operate as a diesil/electric loco.
And a person I read about on his own website fulfilled his dream of operating a
steam loco. It was the SP&S 700 4 8 4 northen type loco running on the MRL and he
seamed to enjoy every moment of it. personally I am glad he got to fullfill his dream,
been meaning to write to him but haven't yet. You may know him, he is an engineer
out of Sherridon Wyoming on the BNSF, Witch to me is still just the good ol' Burlington
Northern becaus it's first name is Burlington Northern and Santa Fe is just along for
the ride. The deep roots grow out of the Northern Pacific and the Great Northern,
hence the GN orange and NP green. (long live memories of the 2 8 8 4 Yellowstones
and 4 8 4 Northens. The NP envented both and a 4 8 4 by any other name is still a
NORTHERN.

[daveklepper]

Maybe the March issue proves lots of operating people like the newest GE's? Dave

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29

Dear dharmon,
I'm glad you enjoyed the Pumpkin train.

Sincerely,
Daniel

This chair is as hard as a rock.... oops sorry, didn't realize i was ON AIR.

Okay can someone please explain the Pumpkin train?

I have a lot of images floating through my head, one involves cinderella.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: [i]
Actually, aside from the name and number of wheels the SD40 and SD40-2 have very little in common. The -2 is larger, more powerful, and more likely to be cited as an example of EMD locomotives!!!!

Since when is 3000 Horsepower more powerful than 3000 Horsepower???????

[Mookie]

darn - gotta go home, but can't wait to see the answer on this one!

Mook

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by antbro

I have nothing against GE locomotives . we must remember that GE was not always GE . from what i understand GE came from a list of loco builders. was it not ALCO LOCOMOTIVE WORKS . was it apart of FAIRBANKS MORSE LOCOMOTIVE WORKS . if not then my mistake.. but i do know that GE's are good engines. and at one point they ran some of our best trains. just like AMTRAK . yes EMD IS A VERY GOOD LOCOMOTIVE. BUT SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO GIVE RESPECT WERE RESPECT IS DO...

Antbro:

Please take some time and hit the books.....GE has been around quite a while. At one point or another, they have provided componets (traction motors, main generators and electrical gear) to most of the other locomotive builders along with Westinghouse. GE was around before GM/EMD/EMC....[;)]

The GE/EMD ...chicken/egg thing is somewhat emotional and never will resolve itself. Take the time and see how the locomotive builders got into the market, which somewhat explains the different philosophies. I agree with ED on the quality issue and also saw the individual corporate attitude towards loco builders as a source of the problem. (Sulzers and Kraus-Maffei's might be great in Europe, but they did not survive here because of the greater strains, abuses and smaller mainenance budgets allowed; FMs ALCOs & GE's in the proper hands will endure - but are prone to fail if the owners are more used to EMD majority maintenance practices.) As a roadmaster with a ballast train, I would cringe when saddled with 25 cars of rock pulled by a B23-7 or U23B....no sweat with most GP-30s or GP-35s in the same case.
(and my railroad took a stab at building GE's)

Enjoy the variety and hope that the diversity continues, as long it does not adversely affect the financial health of the railroads. For that matter, there still are a few Baldwins and Limas out there pulling like champs. How many on this board know where to find one running and/or have ever seen one? (Hint: there are 3 Lima's , 1 running, within 10 miles of Connersville, IN)

[kenneo]

MC --- or run them! S-12's, DRS 6-6-15's, DRS 6-6-16's and AS 616's.

Frozen Muddy Avion - Do you know where the Baldwins from the ONW and TRONA ended up? One of the ONW engines (originally an SP unit) has a blown turbo and is owned by the PNWR of the NRLHS, but I lost track of the others. Last I remember was someone in Texas buying them to use as an attraction someplace.

[daveklepper]

GE must be doing something right to sell as many of their AC units as they are doing! Dave Klepper

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rdganthracite

QUOTE: [i]
Actually, aside from the name and number of wheels the SD40 and SD40-2 have very little in common. The -2 is larger, more powerful, and more likely to be cited as an example of EMD locomotives!!!!

Since when is 3000 Horsepower more powerful than 3000 Horsepower???????

I think the SD40-2 indeed is longer than the SD-40 because it used the same frame as the SD45-2 - for economy reasons (standardization) I guess. Or is it only the tunnel motors? Probably pulls more, too, because of the improved electronics ("-2" meaning modular electronics, an improvement over the older models.)

Regarding GE vs EMD vs steam vs..., I'll say nothing. I'm a railfan and a modeler and I love them all.

[#offtopic] Btw. this post should be my 0-6-0!

[oubliette]

I think whatever country you are an enthusiast for the rail scene you are bound to have preferences. Its each to his own. As far as I am concerned coming from the UK, the US rail scene is so interesting, so many operators and such a variety of loco's in so many different colours. We don't get any where near the length of trains you do here or so many loco's on the front of a train. It's just good to see so much weight pounding the rails.

As for GM v GE, we all have preferences but I must admit I do like loco's from both builders. I work on GM loco's here in the UK but still like the sound of the GE loco's when I visit the US.

Cheers

Rory

[Anonymous]

Who built the first dieselelectric engine at the United States ????

ALCo ? No !
Baldwin ? No !
EMC ? No !
EMD ? No !

Yes, it was GE in 1917 - near 20 years befor the creating of EMD !!! And in the 20´s as part of AGEIR (ALCo / GE / INGERSOLL-RAND).

Most of the older EMD engines, also the ALCo´s, are equipped with electric components build by GE. I think all exept only one EMD DD 35 had traction motors built by GE!

This topic is 100 % a discussion about personal preferences.

One prefer Alco, the second EMD, and the third GE. - It´s the same with the roads.
UP against BNSF or N&W against WP.

You will never find a goal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mark W. Hemphill

Gentlemen: EMD vs. GE is a fine topic for this list. But U.S. vs. U.K.? That will not encourage people to come to this forum and become interested in railroads, but will drive them away. That doesn't serve any of our goals.

[#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29

Dear dharmon,
I'm glad you enjoyed the Pumpkin train.

Sincerely,
Daniel

This chair is as hard as a rock.... oops sorry, didn't realize i was ON AIR.

Okay can someone please explain the Pumpkin train?

I have a lot of images floating through my head, one involves cinderella.

Dear Kevin,
Okay--you can stop thinking about Cinderella. I think you have Halloween up in Canada (or do you call it All Hallows Eve???). The pumpkin train is a special train that Orange Empire runs in October to a pumpkin field, people pick pumpkins, and then they go home. However, I don't think we did it this year for some reason.

Dear everyone,
Since when is 3000 horsepower greater than 3000 horsepower???? I really don't know. I'm sorry...it appears I was misinformed. Thanks for correcting me.

Sincerely,
Daniel

P.S.Steam is, was, and always will be king!!!!