Ulrich wrote:I would take all that bitchin with a grain of salt...some people are just never happy.
You sir, need to get a clue. The UTU and BLE have been fighting this issue for years. And now as a BLE officer, I can attest there is no more single issue that upsets my members than vans and their drivers.
Ulrich wrote: Hey Zugman you have union representation...no? Then why not get them involved in this SAFETY issue instead of whining about it here?...just an IDEAR...hahahahahahahahaha
Hey Zugman you have union representation...no? Then why not get them involved in this SAFETY issue instead of whining about it here?...just an IDEAR...
hahahahahahahahaha
Sure laugh at this. For years this has been an issue. Carriers hires contactors. Complaints to carrier are sent to contractor. At one time, when a crew slid off an icy road in Central Iowa, the carrier said it was not responsible since it was a contractor, despite the crew still being on duty. Courts made short order of that issue. Carrier asked for "van" insurance, no dice. Contractor short of help, hires any mope that can walk and sign their name and are ill trained. Contractors have no way of handling and tracking complaints on drivers. Some contractors treat their drivers worse than railroads as far as rest issues.
To their credit. Carriers will no longer deadhead or send out crews on the branch when vans cannot run. Local van managers look at regional road conditions before sending a driver out in winter, and has authority over UP and the van HQ on this issue. Van company now has 4WD vehicles for use on branch line territory. No more will a large rear wheel van with no rear heat be sent out on icy roads to carry crews. Vans are cleaned every day. Employees are empowered to refuse a van or driver on sight.
Is it any wonder, the old heads jump off of road jobs in the winter months because of the van issues? I no longer have to worry, I work a yard job. This is not about whining, it is about our lives.
In Iowa depending where you, the UP uses Rentzenberger, Express Shuttle, a local company aroung Clinton whose name I can't remember, and Armadillo/Rail Crew Express. There is also a small company used for back up in the North Central Iowa area.
Armadillo was rumored to have ties to the UP through a relative of a board member. From what I understand, Rail Crew Express (RCX) is headquarted in Canada but is tied to Armadillo. One driver said when RCX took over they had to reapply for their jobs at lower pay.
I was told a story about a crew that was picked up over at Otis (near Cedar Rapids). They were dead on the law. Once loaded up, both crewmembers went to sleep while the van took off for Clinton. When one of them woke up, they found a driver who was close to running out of driving time and lost. Turns out the driver who was fairly new made a few wrong turn and ended up near Manchester, Iowa. They were able to get the driver back to Marion, Iowa. That's where the driver ran out of hours. They had called for another van. The one that shows up is also out of hours. Another call is made and a third van is dispatched. Meanwhile, the second van is going back to Clinton, so the original van wants to follow him, but neither can take passengers. The crew is made to take their luggage out and left at a convenience store while both vans take off. It's about 4AM and the crew calls the corridor manager. He immediately orders a taxi out of Cedar Rapids to pick them up, appologizes for what's happened and promises to talk to the van company. All told, they were close to 20 hours on duty before finally tying up at Clinton.
I've been lucky. I've never had that big of a problem like they had.
Jeff
Yes I am union, and yes, this issue is beat with a dead horse to the carriers. But the lowest dollar wins. Tell you what; how about you get a job with the railroad and actually ride these vans and then report back? Otherwise you are just blowing hot air.
Ulrich wrote:Hey Zugman you have union representation...no? Then why not get them involved in this SAFETY issue instead of whining about it here?...just an IDEAR...hahahahahahahahaha
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Murphy Siding wrote: As scary as these situations sound, why doesn't it become a bigger issue at contract time?
My guess is that the railroads don't want to pay more money for better drivers. Some of those companies pay their drivers somewhere around minimum wage. Some drivers I know are retired and do it because they like it, these are generally the best drivers.
Harry_Runyon wrote: Ulrich wrote:I would take all that bitchin with a grain of salt...some people are just never happy. Crews should be happy they are placed in an unsafe situation?Do you even work for a railroad? Obviously not or else he would understand where we are coming from. It's so easy for everyone to say that we female dog too much because they have never been in our shoes. Screw Six Flags save your money and just ride with some of these screw ball drivers, I promise it's way more of an adreniline rush. There are some good drivers out there but the bad ones far out weigh the good ones. Ulrich, lets strap you in with a driver who has been up 24 hours and has missing screws, driving a cab that is less than safe on an unfamiliar stretch of road at 2 am and see how happy that makes you.
Crews should be happy they are placed in an unsafe situation?
Do you even work for a railroad?
Obviously not or else he would understand where we are coming from. It's so easy for everyone to say that we female dog too much because they have never been in our shoes. Screw Six Flags save your money and just ride with some of these screw ball drivers, I promise it's way more of an adreniline rush. There are some good drivers out there but the bad ones far out weigh the good ones. Ulrich, lets strap you in with a driver who has been up 24 hours and has missing screws, driving a cab that is less than safe on an unfamiliar stretch of road at 2 am and see how happy that makes you.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Attention please!
Could some of you please check around your villages..it appears that your idiot is missing.
zugmann wrote:yeah... doing 80mph on the interstate with a van driver that can barely stay awake, and had little clue where he is going. We are just a bunch of whiners.
Or you wake up from your haze after 14 hours on duty to find your cab driver is in the eastbound lane going west. Yeah we are whiners.
Poppa_Zit wrote: wabash1 wrote:Yes there is more than 1 cab company and they haul for all the carriers. the class of driver is just 1 step higher than a drunk. some can just see the dash and others just over the dash. on are trips to the motel we are 60 % driving on the shoulder ( either side) the other 30% we are in are lane ( or the one they drifted to ) that leaves 10% I cant tell you what is going on at that time or can the others as this is the time we are changing are shorts. this is why we have had are off property insurance increased, and someone says that the ns uses a cab called PTI what terminals do they service Rail-Roadwarrior wrote:I've always thought they get those drivers from some kind of work release program. 98% should not be on the road. No matter how long I have been up and working, I could never muster up the nerve to go to sleep with some of these jokers at the wheel. Most had been up just as long as us so we had to stay awake to keep them up. I know some crew members who have actually had to drive theirself so the driver could sleep, but you didn't hear that from me. Boy, I guess it's a good thing we don't have many van drivers with lawyers here as members.
wabash1 wrote:Yes there is more than 1 cab company and they haul for all the carriers. the class of driver is just 1 step higher than a drunk. some can just see the dash and others just over the dash. on are trips to the motel we are 60 % driving on the shoulder ( either side) the other 30% we are in are lane ( or the one they drifted to ) that leaves 10% I cant tell you what is going on at that time or can the others as this is the time we are changing are shorts. this is why we have had are off property insurance increased, and someone says that the ns uses a cab called PTI what terminals do they service
Rail-Roadwarrior wrote:I've always thought they get those drivers from some kind of work release program. 98% should not be on the road. No matter how long I have been up and working, I could never muster up the nerve to go to sleep with some of these jokers at the wheel. Most had been up just as long as us so we had to stay awake to keep them up. I know some crew members who have actually had to drive theirself so the driver could sleep, but you didn't hear that from me.
Boy, I guess it's a good thing we don't have many van drivers with lawyers here as members.
I have no problem with that, if they want to take me to court fine, Ive had a few drivers fired and not behind thier backs either i told them to follow me and we report to the train masters office, and both exsplain what happen, then we go are seperate ways me to work and him fired going home, as if these drivers didnt stay distracted trying to hear what crews are talking about then they get on thier cell phones. we have stopped this for now,
You also have to remember that these vans/cabs/etc, are used for more than just taking crews between hotels and the on/off duty points. They take dogcatch crews to trains and bring the dead ones home. They take deadhead crews from one terminal to the other. They assist in taking trainmen from one end of the train (or yard) to the other for various duties.
In addition to the regular crew transport companies, we also get to deadhead terminal to terminal by charter bus. Lately while the track work project out in Nebraska is going on, they have two or three buses on a regular route. Sometimes only two or three crews are on the big bus. A few times they decide not to deadhead so the bus runs the route empty.
I haven't had a chance to get back to Gillette, WY in a few years, but the last few times I was there, they had a small fleet of Renzenberger vans there for the coal line.
I get to the BNSF HQ in Ft Worth every so often and there's often a Renzenberger van there picking up folks at the office. Must use them for some kind of suttle there too. If I recall, they're out of Shawnee KS.
Ulrich wrote:Why not give crews an allowance and they use that to arrange their own transportation? That way they can hire who they want and quit their griping over who their employer chooses.
By "contracting" with one company for all transportation the company pays less that it would cost to hire per need. Divide the present contracted cost amongst the crew and each individual would not get enough to pay for the transportation they need. One crew might need more because they get picked up 20 miles from the nearest lodging and another can pocket the allowance because they can just walk across the street.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Or use Enterprise and rent the cars? Or would that be too expensive? Or would the crews be collectively too tired to take the wheel?
csx has a crew company haul crews but they also had a crew and engines come from garrett to rescue the 509 in defiance yard.
stay safe
joe
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
Riding in a railroad contracted crew van is the one thing I miss LEAST about railroading! I always thought each time was going to end up as my last trip, except for the ride in the hearse.
At one time there was a driver in Gillette that could only drive 6pm-6am, he was on work release for first degree manslaughter. He actually was a good driver. Then there was a company in Bettendorf,IA that used only Checker cabs. It had been along time since they were new. They'd show up with the doors wired shut. Our favorite was the one with no floorboards in the rear. Just put your feet on the frame and watch the pavement go by.
Wow I had no idea it was that bad. Glad to hear there are a few good ones. I would guess the railroads try to get by as cheep as they can and get what they pay for. You would think with all they talk about safety they would have safe drivers hauling the crews. Thanks for all the info.
CSX uses "Quad A" in my neck of the woods. I have no idea how good they are. I'll agree with Carl - one of our 'old heads' here drove crew transport for quite a while, and I have no doubt she's an excellent driver. On the other hand, sometimes she had to pull some pretty long runs, which don't do anyone any good.
Haven't seen her here in a while, but maybe she'll chime in.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
J. Edgar wrote:if riding in a PTI van is scary.... and ive riden a few over the years....try this....many PTI drivers in Mi end up getting hired into train service.....i was hired by CSX in 97 out of Grand Rapids and there was 2 others in my class.....they both were PTI drivers.....and it took them 2 4 weeks longer to get set up.....even with cell phones maps and a CSX radio PTI drivers still get lost.....but realy its not as bad as riding in a regular taxi....ive rejected taxi cabs on account of unsafe cars or drivers....doesnt make the DSPR or TM's happy but hey.....safety first.....the other side of it is that there are a few safe responsible drivers on their payroll.......as well as some hotties
At least when they doze off they won't swerve and run off the tracks.
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