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Train crew transportation

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Posted by RRKen on Sunday, November 4, 2007 1:00 PM

 Ulrich wrote:
I would take all that bitchin with a grain of salt...some people are just never happy. 

 

You sir, need to get a clue.   The UTU and BLE have been fighting this issue for years.   And now as a BLE officer, I can attest there is no more single issue that upsets my members than vans and their drivers.  

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Posted by RRKen on Sunday, November 4, 2007 12:55 PM
 Ulrich wrote:

Hey Zugman you have union representation...no? Then why not get them involved in this SAFETY issue instead of whining about it here?...just an IDEAR...

hahahahahahahahaha

 Sure laugh at this.    For years this has been an issue.   Carriers hires contactors.   Complaints to carrier are sent to contractor.   At one time, when a crew slid off an icy road in Central Iowa, the carrier said it was not responsible since it was a contractor, despite the crew still being on duty.   Courts made short order of that issue.   Carrier asked for "van" insurance, no dice.  Contractor short of help, hires any mope that can walk and sign their name and are ill trained.   Contractors have no way of handling and tracking complaints on drivers.   Some contractors treat their drivers worse than railroads as far as rest issues.  

To their credit.  Carriers will no longer deadhead or send out crews on the branch when vans cannot run.  Local van managers look at regional road conditions before sending a driver out in winter, and has authority over UP and the van HQ on this issue.    Van company now has 4WD vehicles for use on branch line territory.  No more will a large rear wheel van with no rear heat be sent out on icy roads to carry crews.   Vans are cleaned every day.   Employees are empowered to refuse a van or driver on sight.  

 

Is it any wonder, the old heads jump off of road jobs in the winter months because of the van issues?    I no longer have to worry, I work a yard job.     This is not about whining, it is about our lives. 

I never drink water. I'm afraid it will become habit-forming.
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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, November 4, 2007 11:36 AM

In Iowa depending where you, the UP uses Rentzenberger, Express Shuttle, a local company aroung Clinton whose name I can't remember, and Armadillo/Rail Crew Express.  There is also a small company used for back up in the North Central Iowa area.

Armadillo was rumored to have ties to the UP through a relative of a board member.  From what I understand, Rail Crew Express (RCX) is headquarted in Canada but is tied to Armadillo.  One driver said when RCX took over they had to reapply for their jobs at lower pay. 

I was told a story about a crew that was picked up over at Otis (near Cedar Rapids).  They were dead on the law.  Once loaded up, both crewmembers went to sleep while the van took off for Clinton.  When one of them woke up, they found a driver who was close to running out of driving time and lost.  Turns out the driver who was fairly new made a few wrong turn and ended up near Manchester, Iowa.  They were able to get the driver back to Marion, Iowa.  That's where the driver ran out of hours.  They had called for another van.  The one that shows up is also out of hours.  Another call is made and a third van is dispatched.  Meanwhile, the second van is going back to Clinton, so the original van wants to follow him, but neither can take passengers.  The crew is made to take their luggage out and left at a convenience store while both vans take off.  It's about 4AM and the crew calls the corridor manager.  He immediately orders a taxi out of Cedar Rapids to pick them up, appologizes for what's happened and promises to talk to the van company.  All told, they were close to 20 hours on duty before finally tying up at Clinton. 

I've been lucky.  I've never had that big of a problem like they had. 

Jeff  

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, November 4, 2007 10:03 AM

 

Yes I am union, and yes, this issue is beat with a dead horse to the carriers.  But the lowest dollar wins.  Tell you what; how about you get a job with the railroad and actually ride these vans and then report back? Otherwise you are just blowing hot air.  

  Blindfold [X-)]

 Ulrich wrote:

Hey Zugman you have union representation...no? Then why not get them involved in this SAFETY issue instead of whining about it here?...just an IDEAR...Banged Head [banghead]

hahahahahahahahaha

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 4, 2007 9:48 AM

 Murphy Siding wrote:
     As scary as these situations sound, why doesn't it become a bigger issue at contract time?

 

My guess is that the railroads don't want to pay more money for better drivers. Some of those companies pay their drivers somewhere around minimum wage. Some drivers I know are retired and do it because they like it, these are generally the best drivers.

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 4, 2007 9:36 AM
 Harry_Runyon wrote:

 Ulrich wrote:
I would take all that bitchin with a grain of salt...some people are just never happy. 

Crews should be happy they are placed in an unsafe situation?

Do you even work for a railroad? 

 

 

Obviously not or else he would understand where we are coming from. It's so easy for everyone to say that we female dog too much because they have never been in our shoes. Screw Six Flags save your money and just ride with some of these screw ball drivers, I promise it's way more of an adreniline rush. There are some good drivers out there but the bad ones far out weigh the good ones. Ulrich, lets strap you in with a driver who has been up 24 hours and has missing screws, driving a cab that is less than safe on an unfamiliar stretch of road at 2 am and see how happy that makes you.

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Posted by SFbrkmn on Sunday, November 4, 2007 9:36 AM
We use to have Alex Transportation @ our location. Their drivers were paid close to $10.00 per hour, were unionized, then Rezenberger took over  and made it a lower paying, non union operation. I have been  w/drivers that have backed up into a standing cut of rail cars which shattered the rear window, one wasn't paying attention and ran a red light which thankfully no cross traffic was approaching and another kept putting ice down his neck in order to stay awake.Riding in a contract van is the most dangerous part of a train crewmembers job. Also last summer while on vac in Okla City,  on I40 a van lettered Train Crew Transportation passed me. Never heard of that outfit. Anyone know of this?
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, November 4, 2007 9:01 AM
     As scary as these situations sound, why doesn't it become a bigger issue at contract time?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 4, 2007 8:23 AM
 Ulrich wrote:

Hey Zugman you have union representation...no? Then why not get them involved in this SAFETY issue instead of whining about it here?...just an IDEAR...Banged Head [banghead]

hahahahahahahahaha

Attention please!

Could some of you please check around your villages..it appears that your idiot is missing. 

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 4, 2007 8:21 AM

 Ulrich wrote:
I would take all that bitchin with a grain of salt...some people are just never happy. 

Crews should be happy they are placed in an unsafe situation?

Do you even work for a railroad? 

 

 

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Posted by Ulrich on Sunday, November 4, 2007 7:49 AM

Hey Zugman you have union representation...no? Then why not get them involved in this SAFETY issue instead of whining about it here?...just an IDEAR...Banged Head [banghead]

hahahahahahahahaha

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Posted by Cris_261 on Sunday, November 4, 2007 1:43 AM
UP uses Armadillo in Utah, and possibly in Wyoming, since a lot of the Armadillo vans have Wyoming license plates. Or maybe that's just because Armadillo can save money by not having to pay out so much in sales taxes by purchasing the vans in Wyoming versus Utah.
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Posted by RRKen on Saturday, November 3, 2007 11:12 PM

 zugmann wrote:
yeah... doing 80mph on the interstate with a van driver that can barely stay awake, and had little clue where he is going.  We are just a bunch of whiners.

 

Or you wake up from your haze after 14 hours on duty to find your cab driver is in the eastbound lane going west.  Yeah we are whiners.

I never drink water. I'm afraid it will become habit-forming.
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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, November 3, 2007 11:08 PM
yeah... doing 80mph on the interstate with a van driver that can barely stay awake, and had little clue where he is going.  We are just a bunch of whiners.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Ulrich on Saturday, November 3, 2007 9:53 PM
I would take all that bitchin with a grain of salt...some people are just never happy. 
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Posted by lrfogle on Saturday, November 3, 2007 12:01 PM
I am sure there are many unfortunate incidents that have, and will continue to happen with "contracted shuttle services" and the railroads.  I am currently a driver for Express Shuttle serving the BNSF our of Creston, Iowa.  Yes, we have had some cases of unqualified drivers, but they have been dealt with swiftly.  We continue to train with safety personnel from our headquarters every three months.  I personally encourage all of my fellow drivers to remember it is customer service first, last and always.  We always remember to cheerfully greet all our clients who come on board and always thank them for the privlege of getting to transport them.  We remind each other that the most important thing we have to do is SAFELY transport the "souls" we have on board with us to their destination.  It is sad that other companies are not on top of their drivers better.  Hope to have the honor of hauling some of you in the future.
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Posted by wabash1 on Saturday, November 3, 2007 9:49 AM
 Poppa_Zit wrote:

 wabash1 wrote:
Yes there is more than 1 cab company and they haul for all the carriers. the class of driver is just 1 step higher than a drunk. some can just see the dash and others just over the dash.  on are trips to the motel we are 60 % driving on the shoulder ( either side) the other 30% we are in are lane ( or the one they drifted to ) that leaves 10% I cant tell you what is going on at that time or can the others as this is the time we are changing are shorts.  this is why we have had are off property insurance increased, and someone says that the ns uses a cab called PTI what terminals do they service

 Rail-Roadwarrior wrote:
I've always thought they get those drivers from some kind of work release program. 98% should not be on the road. No matter how long I have been up and working, I could never muster up the nerve to go to sleep with some of these jokers at the wheel. Most had been up just as long as us so we had to stay awake to keep them up. I know some crew members who have actually had to drive theirself so the driver could sleep, but you didn't hear that from me.

Boy, I guess it's a good thing we don't have many van drivers with lawyers here as members. Whistling [:-^]

I have no problem with that, if they want to take me to court fine, Ive had a few drivers fired and not behind thier backs either i told them to follow me and we report to the train masters office, and both exsplain what happen, then we go are seperate ways me to work and him fired going home, as if these drivers didnt stay distracted trying to hear what crews are talking about then they get on thier cell phones. we have stopped this for now,

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Posted by Philcal on Saturday, November 3, 2007 2:35 AM
Locally,(Montgomery Alabama) CSX uses Yellow Cab for crew transportation. It's been a long time since I've heard any " reviews" concerning the service.
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Posted by Poppa_Zit on Saturday, November 3, 2007 12:20 AM

 wabash1 wrote:
Yes there is more than 1 cab company and they haul for all the carriers. the class of driver is just 1 step higher than a drunk. some can just see the dash and others just over the dash.  on are trips to the motel we are 60 % driving on the shoulder ( either side) the other 30% we are in are lane ( or the one they drifted to ) that leaves 10% I cant tell you what is going on at that time or can the others as this is the time we are changing are shorts.  this is why we have had are off property insurance increased, and someone says that the ns uses a cab called PTI what terminals do they service

 Rail-Roadwarrior wrote:
I've always thought they get those drivers from some kind of work release program. 98% should not be on the road. No matter how long I have been up and working, I could never muster up the nerve to go to sleep with some of these jokers at the wheel. Most had been up just as long as us so we had to stay awake to keep them up. I know some crew members who have actually had to drive theirself so the driver could sleep, but you didn't hear that from me.

Boy, I guess it's a good thing we don't have many van drivers with lawyers here as members. Whistling [:-^]

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, November 2, 2007 10:39 PM

You also have to remember that these vans/cabs/etc, are used for more than just taking crews between hotels and the on/off duty points.  They take dogcatch crews to trains and bring the dead ones home.  They take deadhead crews from one terminal to the other.  They assist in taking trainmen from one end of the train (or yard) to the other for various duties.

In addition to the regular crew transport companies, we also get to deadhead terminal to terminal by charter bus.  Lately while the track work project out in Nebraska is going on, they have two or three buses on a regular route.  Sometimes only two or three crews are on the big bus.  A few times they decide not to deadhead so the bus runs the route empty.

Jeff         

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Posted by Doublestack on Friday, November 2, 2007 10:28 PM

I haven't had a chance to get back to Gillette, WY in a few years, but the last few times I was there, they had a small fleet of Renzenberger vans there for the coal line.  

I get to the BNSF HQ in Ft Worth every so often and there's often a Renzenberger van there picking up folks at the office.  Must use them for some kind of suttle there too.  If I recall, they're out of Shawnee KS.

Thx, Dblstack
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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Friday, November 2, 2007 10:16 PM

 Ulrich wrote:
Why not give crews an allowance and they use that to arrange their own transportation? That way they can hire who they want and quit their griping over who their employer chooses.

By "contracting" with one company for all transportation the company pays less that it would cost to hire per need.  Divide the present contracted cost amongst the crew and each individual would not get enough to pay for the transportation they need.  One crew might need more because they get picked up 20 miles from the nearest lodging and another can pocket the allowance because they can just walk across the street.

 

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by al-in-chgo on Friday, November 2, 2007 10:14 PM

 Ulrich wrote:
Why not give crews an allowance and they use that to arrange their own transportation? That way they can hire who they want and quit their griping over who their employer chooses.

Or use Enterprise and rent the cars?  Or would that be too expensive?  Or would the crews be collectively too tired to take the wheel? 

 

al-in-chgo
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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, November 2, 2007 9:59 PM
Why not give crews an allowance and they use that to arrange their own transportation? That way they can hire who they want and quit their griping over who their employer chooses.
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Posted by JoeKoh on Friday, November 2, 2007 7:43 PM

csx has a crew company haul crews but they also had a crew and engines come from garrett to rescue the 509 in defiance yard.

stay safe

joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

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Posted by rrboomer on Friday, November 2, 2007 5:33 PM

Riding in a railroad contracted crew van is the one thing I miss LEAST about railroading! I always thought each time was going to end up as my last trip, except for the ride in the hearse.

At one time there was a driver in Gillette that could only drive 6pm-6am, he was on work release for first degree manslaughter. He actually was a good driver. Then there was a company in Bettendorf,IA that used only Checker cabs. It had been along time since they were new. They'd show up with the doors wired shut. Our favorite was the one with no floorboards in the rear. Just put your feet on the frame and watch the pavement go by.

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Posted by Expresslane on Friday, November 2, 2007 5:21 PM

 

   Wow I had no idea it was that bad. Glad to hear there are a few good ones. I would guess the railroads try to get by as cheep as they can and get what they pay for. You would think with all they talk about safety they would have safe drivers hauling the crews. Thanks for all the info.

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, November 2, 2007 4:01 PM

CSX uses "Quad A" in my neck of the woods.  I have no idea how good they are.  I'll agree with Carl - one of our 'old heads' here drove crew transport for quite a while, and I have no doubt she's an excellent driver.  On the other hand, sometimes she had to pull some pretty long runs, which don't do anyone any good.

Haven't seen her here in a while, but maybe she'll chime in.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 2, 2007 4:00 PM

 J. Edgar wrote:
if riding in a PTI van is scary.... and ive riden a few over the years....try this....many PTI drivers in Mi end up getting hired into train service.....i was hired by CSX in 97 out of Grand Rapids and there was 2 others in my class.....they both were PTI drivers.....and it took them 2 4 weeks longer to get set up.....even with cell phones maps and a CSX radio PTI drivers still get lost.....but realy its not as bad as riding in a regular taxi....ive rejected taxi cabs on account of unsafe cars or drivers....doesnt make the DSPR or TM's happy but hey.....safety first.....the other side of it is that there are a few safe responsible drivers on their payroll.......as well as some hottiesEvil [}:)]

At least when they doze off they won't swerve and run off the tracks.

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Posted by Andy Cummings on Friday, November 2, 2007 1:22 PM
Express Shuttle Inc. out of Bismarck, N.D., has a lot of the BNSF contracts in the Midwest.

When I worked for DM&E, we generally used Express Shuttle as well, though I hear they've moved out since then and a new outfit has moved in.

I agree that, as much as the rail taxi service had some drivers that left me ill at ease, often the local cab companies were worse. One day we called a local cab service in a college town we served. I climbed into the cab, and noticed a funny smell in there. I asked the driver, "Has somebody been smoking reefer in here?" He laughed and said yes. He said the guy was in the back seat and asked him, "Mind if I smoke?" The driver told him, fine, so long as you roll down a window. And the passenger pulled out a great big fat smokable device of some kind and proceeded do smoke up. By the time I got in the cab, it was still pretty strong.

That same cab company, which we used quite a bit for short runs, ran exclusively with early 1990s-era Chevy Luminas. Because it was a college town and most of their business consisted of hauling drunks around after bar close, there was a faint odor of vomit in many of these old beasts. They were always beat up and had some ridiculous mileage on them. They ran loud, and often smelled of burning oil as well.

One Sunday morning one of my engineers was coming through Byron, Minn., and saw an old Lumina stalled on the tracks ahead of him and a guy trying to push the car off the tracks. The engineer threw the train in emergency, stuck his head out the window, and began waving to the motorist, signalling him to clear away. Finally the motorist wised up, stepped back from the tracks, and watched his Lumina get obliterated by an SD40. Turned out the guy was the local pastor on his way home from delivering his sermon.

When the engineer told me that story, I suggested he contact the pastor and recommend he try and sell the Lumina to the cab company in question. Even after getting mauled by a 3,000-ton freight, I said, it was probably in better condition than half the wrecks that outfit was driving around!

Andy Cummings
Associate Editor
Trains Magazine
Waukesha, Wis.
(former DM&E conductor)
Andy Cummings Associate Editor TRAINS Magazine Waukesha, Wis.

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