Does anyone know what happended to Rickey Gates of Conrailwho caused the big Wreck in Chase, Marylan

[Anonymous]

Very good point csxengineer. The more I read about another point of view, the more I understand the way they think. even though I may not agree, I can at least understand what the message is and everyone's opinion is valid![#ditto]

[csxengineer98]

doddy,
your the one that opened this can of worms..and now you want to move on.... i dont think so.. this is a hot topic and it has inpsired alot of debate on both sides...which is exactly what this forum is about...and needed agin... this forum was starting to get dry...more people making issues over how many stars they got now..insted of a real heart felt argument or debate over an issue... you look at threads of the past that have keep going and going..with fire and pashion on both sides of the issues...such as one that happend on here some time back over rail road crossing safty/who is liable... when the fourms are "lets start the ever ending story" are posted...its time to have someone post an issue that can and will start a good debait...which is what you did.... even though my views on this have been met with alot of resistance becouse of my feelings about ricky gates... it has keep this topic in the top 10 for weeks... besides.....debait and freedom to do so was 1 of the frounding prinsables of this country... to be allowed to express your oppion on something..even if it wasnt what the status qoe was talking.... our founding fathers where a bunch of people that connstilly annoyed and pissed eachother off on issues.....which as a result started this great nation in which you and i can express how we feel.....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Doggy

OK Can we move on?

*yawns*

[Anonymous]

OK Can we move on? He paid his dues and admitted what he did and lets move on

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by creosote

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman


I'm still in somewhat of disbelief, But i much rather talk to people one on one rather then over a big forum, that way i can understnad each and every one of you better.

Four stars and 1157 posts... and you'd rather not talk on a forum?

Re-read what i worte, then reply again. Correct, you get to know no one on a forum the way you can by e-mail.
E-mails are a lot more personal, more can be said, and the threat of the whole world knowing isn't such a serious one.

Society and people tend to operate better on a 1-1 basis. Did you know that?

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by creosote

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman


I'm still in somewhat of disbelief, But i much rather talk to people one on one rather then over a big forum, that way i can understnad each and every one of you better.

Four stars and 1157 posts... and you'd rather not talk on a forum?

....and who's second, third, fourth,.......etc screen name are you?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman


I'm still in somewhat of disbelief, But i much rather talk to people one on one rather then over a big forum, that way i can understnad each and every one of you better.

Four stars and 1157 posts... and you'd rather not talk on a forum?

[Anonymous]

Kevin you have alot of opions about the 1970's for some one who never
lived them.You were still in pampers in the 80's.
Not making excuses it just the way it was.
Even management turned a blind eye to alot of things they knew that was going on.
You were not working for the railroads in the 70's 80's or the 90's.You
seen to think you know alot since you worked for the railway for the short time
that you have.The reason why we have drug testing is because of some of the
things that have happened.You should know by now
the railways to not changes things buy them self unless a problem comes up
or it can save them money.
Let me ask you this have you ever driven a car after a beer or two.I sure
about 98 percent of the who drink have driven a car after they had a few beers
same thing car or locomotive.

[tree68]

"Everybody's doing it" is rarely an excuse, but it may very well be (or have been) a fact. Attitudes change. Many people in the 60's thru the 80's firmly believed that they could perform as well intoxicated as they could sober. Research and experience has proved them wrong. Some people still don't get it (why else would a person get a third DWI?), but most of us have.

Drug testing (and screening in airports, etc) does smack of presumed guilt. If someone can come up with another way to discover these problems, let's hear it. We are protected against unreasonable search and seizure. Some feel that drug testing, et al, is unreasonable. That's fine, unless you are charged with the safety and/security of others. Then you owe it to me. Your right to do what you want conflicts with my right to know that the person to whom I've entrusted my safe passage is fully capable of doing the job.

It's funny that no one thinks of school exams as "presumed guilt." We all know that unless you pass the test, you fail. Same for life.

My day job requires random drug testing. It also involves national security. Any questions?

My volunteer work as a firefighter and an EMT requires a clear head. You want me picking drugs to inject in your body or trying to save your kid from a fire if I'm not sober? You trust me to do the right thing. I owe that to you. Besides, I kinda like my truck and my car. No sense giving it to you because I screwed up.

"Rule G" has been around so long it's legend. There's a reason for that.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Rick Gates

Sorry Kevin........There is no such thing as "Internet 101 class" however; there is "Networking For Dummies!" lol Just kidding. I've already talked with you on MSN. You must have been in a Permissive Block.......somewhere in the Twilight Zone........I'll try to email something or other..............maybe.......just because you got brass kid.[:-^]

I'm not saying your not a nice guy, and i'm not saying people don't change for the better, thats not what i'm trying to convey. What I am merely saying is i have a hard time believing that you are actually this man.

Thats like syaing that someone who Signed up with the internet WAyne_gretzky_99 is wayne Gretzeky

I'm still in somewhat of disbelief, But i much rather talk to people one on one rather then over a big forum, that way i can understnad each and every one of you better.

I know i might appear to be on the diffensive, But it's jsut my state of mind rather.. Last time I was on MSN, you weren't talking! I kept making jokes thta you were my boss monitoring my behavior.

I'm sorry if i came across like a giant Grump, i'm really not in a bad mood, it's jsut that, I need sopme time to grasp this situation properly, because it's hard to comprehend the scenerio when all of the sudden you read that your Speaking to the engineer who killed people. It takes a while to comprehend that.

And if anyone is anyhting like me, Big discoveries have to be taken in small strides, otherwise i'll fold up like Windows ME or the MLW.

Still, i would rather communicate with you VIA e-mail.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bigedd

Why should he e-mail you.
What is he to gain.He paid his dues and does not have to prove
any thing to any one.
There was alot of drug and booze in the 70's and 80's.
I know I seen alot of it and alot of use took are fellow workers
home to cover it up.
And again if it was not him it would of be some one else.

So suddenly, that is a valid Excuse, Jusr because the year ended in 70 or 80, means you were allowed to not practice moderation and self control?

Come on, Thats lame.

[Rick Gates]

Sorry Kevin........There is no such thing as "Internet 101 class" however; there is "Networking For Dummies!" lol Just kidding. I've already talked with you on MSN. You must have been in a Permissive Block.......somewhere in the Twilight Zone........I'll try to email something or other..............maybe.......just because you got brass kid.[:-^]

[Anonymous]

Why should he e-mail you.
What is he to gain.He paid his dues and does not have to prove
any thing to any one.
There was alot of drug and booze in the 70's and 80's.
I know I seen alot of it and alot of use took are fellow workers
home to cover it up.
And again if it was not him it would of be some one else.

[Anonymous]

Kev [:p]

Rick emailed me proof. I am very satisfied it is him. Why would anyone want to take the abuse he is receiving in the forums and has at other times elsewhere?

Kev, don't be so fuddy duddy. [;)] [}:)] [:p]

[Anonymous]

hmmm... 12 hours later no-email

Let me be abit more Clear, I'd like you to E-mail me Mr. Gates.

[Anonymous]

Ok now this is going to make me look like the black Sheep.. But

I can't believe he is Rick Gates.

Look Internet 101 class srictly tells you not to believe everything you hear, which is also a good practice in society.

Look, If i told you my name Was kevin, i'm 19 years old and live in Quebec, And you don't believe me, thats fine, thats the interent. I'm not going to forward documents to prove i'm who I am, If you don't want to beleieve me, that is fine..

So Mr. Gates, If you feel like E-mailing me to talk to me about this more, you can.

Until thne, I don't know, and I just can't believe your him.

[Anonymous]

People change.

Rick has changed.

The railroad industry has changed because of that accident.

And as someone else has said in this thread, If Rick didn't cause an accident, someone else would have.

There have been other posts in other threads about employees smoking or drinking on the job. It happens in every industry period. Is it better today than it was? I hope so, but I really don't know for sure.

Rick paid his dues for this accident. Give the man a break.

[jeaton]

I can understand where CSXengineer98 is coming from. Anyone who is anywhere behaving themselves and doing their job as they should hates to be painted with the same brush as the bad actors in their class. "All" or "everyone" in train service in that era were not on drugs or alcohol. There may have been significant numbers, but that not only reflected bad judgement or attitude on the part of those who indulged, but also pretty sloppy management.

One has to remember something about the "war on drugs" of that era. In many areas, expecially political, there was a very high degree of ferver among those seeking to stop any drug use anywhere, anyway, period. Rick Gates became a sort of a poster boy for those who wanted to make the point that drug useage was the preeminent threat to our way of life. (Sort of like terrorism these days). I am in agreement on one point, anyone who is high or drunk ought to be prohibited from any activities that could endanger others. I also think that employers have the right to expect or demand that employees on the job are sober, no mater the job assignment. However, if one is compelled or simply desires to indulge in some substance, I'd prefer that it would be slept off before hitting the streets. At least that would reflect being personally responsible for one's behavior.

[AntonioFP45]

Kevin,


I haven't read the article in a very long time but in a very condensed nutshell:

This happened in the mid 80s. The Amtrak "Colonial" cruising at 100+ mph, slammed into the 3rd locomotive of a trio of locomotives being operated by Conrail Engineer Richard Gates in what is called a "Light Engine Move". Mr. Gates had been moving the units on a track that crossed the mainline that the Colonial was traveling on. He passed a "stop" signal. When he did stop, the 3rd unit, a 4 axle GE unit, was not clear of the Colonial's right of way. It was later determined Mr. Gates was impaired due to the effects of having smoked Marijuana.

The trajedy make news nationwide. I'm still a bit skeptical but apparently, Rick Gates, the former Conrail Engineer has been responding to questions and opinions. I must admit to being surprised as back then I wondered what kind of person he was. He knows that for a while, he was the most despised man in the news and the transportation world.

One interesting "backlash" effect that came out of this: In addition to reports of trains crews working high, many reports started quickly circulating about drug abuse in the cockpits of MANY commercial airliners!

On a personal note though, I find it so hard to believe that many, many, many railroaders were getting high during the 70s and 80s. I would hope that it was a small number. It stands to reason that a lot of railroaders, like the ones I've met, while working with faitigue did not believe in compromising their standards and endangering lives.

[Anonymous]

CRAP...

I'm lost...

Was this Derailment before my time?

And to sum everything up, were talking with the person who caused this...??

Either A) I have a fever, which certainly could be.
B) i'm very lost...
C) i have things straight...
D) whatever other posibilities may exist...

So are we trying to Tell me, we are speaking with the Actual engineer that caused this Derailment?

I must be feeling worse then i thought...

[Anonymous]

Right on Goober. Let's end the bantering back and forth and talk some good railroad stuff. We know where everyone stands, so let's all just move on. I didn't intend any malice towards CSXengineer98 by my statement, just letting everyone know where I stand. [^]

[Goober]

I think that we all need to realize that the actions of the few have affected the many. Not necessarily right or wrong, just reality. This has been an interesting topic, and I have enjoyed the give and take on the subject. I think that we need to put ourselves in his position and what would we have done. Not an excuse, but something for us all to think about. Keep in mind that we have 20/20 hindsight on this, and we are/were not in Rick's position at the time. I wonder if he had a "muligan" to use, how many times do you think he wished he could use it.

enjoy the ride

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bnsfkline

.....I feel this is getting out of hand, leave CSXengineer alone, or this channel may go into a civil war. Do we REALLY want to have a "War amongst the Forums?"

bnsfkline I have to agree woth you 110% that this is getting out of hand I thought this was going a good question then when we found out what ever this would stop but no this is turning into the Packers Vs. the Bears rivaly so please let it stop.

DOGGY

[bnsfkline]

.....I feel this is getting out of hand, leave CSXengineer alone, or this channel may go into a civil war. Do we REALLY want to have a "War amongst the Forums?"

[csxengineer98]

i have never had an issue at work....i have been 100% rules complyinent....and have never had a displanary investigation...and the few derailments i have been involed in have never been by any fault of mine.... i dont speed.... i obey all singal rules... i comply with Rule G....
but someone made the commment that billy didnt name names..... thats only a half truth.... you dont need to name names when you say that all rail roaders are on drungs or drunks... that incumpaues eveyone...such as he did in his testimony at the government hearings....
you people only read what you want to read.... try reading all of what i say..insted of picking and chossing some words i say to use aginst me in some twisted battle of whits
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

As is the way it shoulld be. Eventually, the industry and its measures will weed-out all of the CSX's (from this post) Hopefully anyway!

[Anonymous]

One thing to remember, which I think most of us realize is that you cannot change the past. And things happen for a reason. Things also change because of what has happened in the past. What csxengineer98 needs to realize is that if Rick Gates accident did not occur it would have happened to someone else!!! And then that guy would have been the one sitting there on the hot seat. I for one am very happy that things have changed. I just started working on the railroad and I couldn't tell you how happy I am that drug/alcohol abuse are not prevalent anymore. I am from a new generation of railroad workers who have an entirely different mindset than the old timers. We have the benefit of learning from their mistakes as well as bad company policies. I don't know any other way to operate on the railroad than the way that I was taught, the same goes for the old timers. They used to do all kinds of dangerous stuff because everthing was about moving the trains along. The companies saw the workers as expendable. My instructors told me that they would be exluded by their co-workers if they did not join in on the "festivities" of drug use. Don't get me wrong, I value what the veterans have to say, and most of them do what they can to help me out, but they even tell me to do as they say, not as they do. And from day one I am not gonna let some hard head who can't move on from the old days screw things up. If some engineer refused to operate safely, i.e. speeding, etc. I'd pull that emergecy valve and call that dispatcher in no time. I'd tell that engineer he could cut his engines and keep going, but he's not going to take my train with him!!! I may only be 23 years old, but I have more sense than to sit there and let something happen when I have the control to stop it. That's just the way things are now. From all that has happened and all that I learned I have no excuse to turn the other cheek. I know there is a darker side to "safety, safety, safety" i.e. the rail companies pushing to change to paying out workmans comp instead of the better deal we have now, but believe me I will walk the line because working for the railroad is still one of the best jobs you can have!!!

Nathan "Out" [soapbox]

[Anonymous]

Rick, It's good it doseen't bother you csx98 comments bother me

[Anonymous]

Rick, while I'm glad CSX's comments don't bother you- I think they DO bother the rest of us and imply a plausible reasonalization that he,somehow, is above the law and above any code of decency and moral standards. Hopefully not- but maybe HE will be the next poster boy for "Runnaway Trains'.

[Rick Gates]

It appears as if I am the one who has "opened the can of worms" by my presence and comment in this forum. I remember (to my embarassment) that the first words quoted by me after the accident in the media were "What I do on my own time is my own business, I'm not hurting anyone then." I had hurt so many and still didn't get it. Please do not be harsh with CSX98 for his "opinions." It doesn't bother me. In fact, it is like looking in a mirror to myself and my past. I was 32 years old when this accident occured and my thoughts were quite impassioned and similar. Since he was not in the business then, he has apparently confederated himself with like thinking others with a percieved fear of the change they belive is occurring. For instance, I never ran a steam hog and romance the idea, however I know if I worked on one in their era, I would dislike aspects of the job, and also the procedure and rule changes that came about with the intoduction of diesel. I always get a chuckle when someone evades the legal issues they are talking about while invoking the constitution. Alcohol and drugs may always be a problem in any industry. We hope for progress in making it safer. In my case, not until too late for those harmed. Even white collar workers under the influence, may inadvertently affect the lives, reputations and finances of those they are paid to serve. Most people I think are good. No one may intend to harm others, yet we might at times do so with all of the best motives. From time to time I chat with Jim and others in the MSN chat as he has mentioned. I am glad he invited me and hope to learn your experiences and opinions there as well. Being here, I think we have alot in common. A love of TRAINS!