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Does anyone know what happended to Rickey Gates of Conrailwho caused the big Wreck in Chase, Marylan

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 8, 2004 8:26 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by bigedd

Why should he e-mail you.
What is he to gain.He paid his dues and does not have to prove
any thing to any one.
There was alot of drug and booze in the 70's and 80's.
I know I seen alot of it and alot of use took are fellow workers
home to cover it up.
And again if it was not him it would of be some one else.


So suddenly, that is a valid Excuse, Jusr because the year ended in 70 or 80, means you were allowed to not practice moderation and self control?

Come on, Thats lame.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 8, 2004 8:35 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Rick Gates

Sorry Kevin........There is no such thing as "Internet 101 class" however; there is "Networking For Dummies!" lol Just kidding. I've already talked with you on MSN. You must have been in a Permissive Block.......somewhere in the Twilight Zone........I'll try to email something or other..............maybe.......just because you got brass kid.[:-^]


I'm not saying your not a nice guy, and i'm not saying people don't change for the better, thats not what i'm trying to convey. What I am merely saying is i have a hard time believing that you are actually this man.

Thats like syaing that someone who Signed up with the internet WAyne_gretzky_99 is wayne Gretzeky

I'm still in somewhat of disbelief, But i much rather talk to people one on one rather then over a big forum, that way i can understnad each and every one of you better.

I know i might appear to be on the diffensive, But it's jsut my state of mind rather.. Last time I was on MSN, you weren't talking! I kept making jokes thta you were my boss monitoring my behavior.

I'm sorry if i came across like a giant Grump, i'm really not in a bad mood, it's jsut that, I need sopme time to grasp this situation properly, because it's hard to comprehend the scenerio when all of the sudden you read that your Speaking to the engineer who killed people. It takes a while to comprehend that.

And if anyone is anyhting like me, Big discoveries have to be taken in small strides, otherwise i'll fold up like Windows ME or the MLW.

Still, i would rather communicate with you VIA e-mail.
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Posted by tree68 on Monday, March 8, 2004 8:57 AM
"Everybody's doing it" is rarely an excuse, but it may very well be (or have been) a fact. Attitudes change. Many people in the 60's thru the 80's firmly believed that they could perform as well intoxicated as they could sober. Research and experience has proved them wrong. Some people still don't get it (why else would a person get a third DWI?), but most of us have.

Drug testing (and screening in airports, etc) does smack of presumed guilt. If someone can come up with another way to discover these problems, let's hear it. We are protected against unreasonable search and seizure. Some feel that drug testing, et al, is unreasonable. That's fine, unless you are charged with the safety and/security of others. Then you owe it to me. Your right to do what you want conflicts with my right to know that the person to whom I've entrusted my safe passage is fully capable of doing the job.

It's funny that no one thinks of school exams as "presumed guilt." We all know that unless you pass the test, you fail. Same for life.

My day job requires random drug testing. It also involves national security. Any questions?

My volunteer work as a firefighter and an EMT requires a clear head. You want me picking drugs to inject in your body or trying to save your kid from a fire if I'm not sober? You trust me to do the right thing. I owe that to you. Besides, I kinda like my truck and my car. No sense giving it to you because I screwed up.

"Rule G" has been around so long it's legend. There's a reason for that.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 8, 2004 9:21 AM
Kevin you have alot of opions about the 1970's for some one who never
lived them.You were still in pampers in the 80's.
Not making excuses it just the way it was.
Even management turned a blind eye to alot of things they knew that was going on.
You were not working for the railroads in the 70's 80's or the 90's.You
seen to think you know alot since you worked for the railway for the short time
that you have.The reason why we have drug testing is because of some of the
things that have happened.You should know by now
the railways to not changes things buy them self unless a problem comes up
or it can save them money.
Let me ask you this have you ever driven a car after a beer or two.I sure
about 98 percent of the who drink have driven a car after they had a few beers
same thing car or locomotive.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 8, 2004 1:40 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman


I'm still in somewhat of disbelief, But i much rather talk to people one on one rather then over a big forum, that way i can understnad each and every one of you better.




Four stars and 1157 posts... and you'd rather not talk on a forum?
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Posted by dharmon on Monday, March 8, 2004 2:21 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by creosote

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman


I'm still in somewhat of disbelief, But i much rather talk to people one on one rather then over a big forum, that way i can understnad each and every one of you better.




Four stars and 1157 posts... and you'd rather not talk on a forum?


....and who's second, third, fourth,.......etc screen name are you?
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 8, 2004 2:48 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by creosote

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman


I'm still in somewhat of disbelief, But i much rather talk to people one on one rather then over a big forum, that way i can understnad each and every one of you better.




Four stars and 1157 posts... and you'd rather not talk on a forum?


Re-read what i worte, then reply again. Correct, you get to know no one on a forum the way you can by e-mail.
E-mails are a lot more personal, more can be said, and the threat of the whole world knowing isn't such a serious one.

Society and people tend to operate better on a 1-1 basis. Did you know that?
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 8, 2004 4:12 PM
OK Can we move on? He paid his dues and admitted what he did and lets move on
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 8, 2004 6:24 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Doggy

OK Can we move on?


*yawns*
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Posted by csxengineer98 on Monday, March 8, 2004 6:40 PM
doddy,
your the one that opened this can of worms..and now you want to move on.... i dont think so.. this is a hot topic and it has inpsired alot of debate on both sides...which is exactly what this forum is about...and needed agin... this forum was starting to get dry...more people making issues over how many stars they got now..insted of a real heart felt argument or debate over an issue... you look at threads of the past that have keep going and going..with fire and pashion on both sides of the issues...such as one that happend on here some time back over rail road crossing safty/who is liable... when the fourms are "lets start the ever ending story" are posted...its time to have someone post an issue that can and will start a good debait...which is what you did.... even though my views on this have been met with alot of resistance becouse of my feelings about ricky gates... it has keep this topic in the top 10 for weeks... besides.....debait and freedom to do so was 1 of the frounding prinsables of this country... to be allowed to express your oppion on something..even if it wasnt what the status qoe was talking.... our founding fathers where a bunch of people that connstilly annoyed and pissed eachother off on issues.....which as a result started this great nation in which you and i can express how we feel.....
csx engineer
"I AM the higher source" Keep the wheels on steel
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 8, 2004 7:07 PM
Very good point csxengineer. The more I read about another point of view, the more I understand the way they think. even though I may not agree, I can at least understand what the message is and everyone's opinion is valid![#ditto]
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Posted by csxengineer98 on Monday, March 8, 2004 7:55 PM
see,
im not as big a A-HOLE as some of you think...ahahahha
csx engineer
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 8, 2004 8:16 PM
Originally posted by csxengineer98

doggy or puppy or what ever your name is agin
i have the right to my oppion...you dont like what i have to say....then dont read my postings..simple as that...
the last time i looked the 1st ammendment was still in in the Constitution....but i guess it only applys anymore in here to the status quo...
and to make a one more point.....i am not alone in my feelings... a good friend of mine that is also an engineer for a major rail road feels the same way as i do...... and the 2 of us are not alone in our view of Billy " THE RAT" Gates...
rail roaders are divided on the issue..some say it was for the best...and some say he sold out to save his own ***....
bottom line.... yes he screwed up.....and i will give him this..he did claim responsibily for his actions.... but when it came down his *** going to jail for life... he rolled over on his brothers.....
this is how i feel...you dont like it...fine.... but you cant expect all the butt kissing of bill gates from people in this forum to be met without some resistance.....
csx engineer







CSXENGINEER You do have a right to say what you want also the point with the constution I was reading over it and the 1st amdnedment is still in it surprsly with BUSH WHO HIS SITS THEIR AND DOES NOTHING BUT GIVE HALLIBURTON CONTRACTS it's still in it and We're sorry if we made you fell bad by critizing you badly and I'm sorry I asked you to stop[B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)][B)]. Also my name IS DOGGY so you won't mess up for the future not PUPPY OR DOTTY
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 8, 2004 8:20 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

doddy,
your the one that opened this can of worms..and now you want to move on.... i dont think so.. this is a hot topic and it has inpsired alot of debate on both sides...which is exactly what this forum is about...and needed agin... this forum was starting to get dry...more people making issues over how many stars they got now..insted of a real heart felt argument or debate over an issue... you look at threads of the past that have keep going and going..with fire and pashion on both sides of the issues...such as one that happend on here some time back over rail road crossing safty/who is liable... when the fourms are "lets start the ever ending story" are posted...its time to have someone post an issue that can and will start a good debait...which is what you did.... even though my views on this have been met with alot of resistance becouse of my feelings about ricky gates... it has keep this topic in the top 10 for weeks... besides.....debait and freedom to do so was 1 of the frounding prinsables of this country... to be allowed to express your oppion on something..even if it wasnt what the status qoe was talking.... our founding fathers where a bunch of people that connstilly annoyed and pissed eachother off on issues.....which as a result started this great nation in which you and i can express how we feel.....
csx engineer


THAT"S FUR SURE IT WAS GETTING DRY AND YOU BRING UP A POINT ABOUT NEVER ENDING STORIES THIS ONE WILL NEVER END UNLESS THE WORLD DOES
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, March 8, 2004 8:34 PM
Awww, it's so sweet to see we're all getting along again... sniff, sniff. I'm getting velcempt, talk amongst yourselves! Topic of discussion: what do you railroad guys think of the new Power Break Law going into effect April 1?[#dots]
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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, March 8, 2004 10:52 PM
N_Stephenson,

Forgive my ignorance please. What is this "Power Brake Law"?

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 6:04 AM
Basically, the names of the air brake tests are changing from Initial Terminal to Class 1, 1000 mile to class 1A, there's also a Class 2 and a Class 3. Conductors will have to fill out a piece of paper on the air brake test and document any cars that brakes don't operate and where they are in a train, etc. The air brake tests are also a little more extensive. This extra piece of paper sounds like more liability to me, and it doesn't suprise me in this blame-happy society. So like anything else in your line of work, make sure you cover your @$$. I'm still a newbie, so the veterans can probably give you a little more info on this.[C):-)]
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Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 7:03 AM
Mookie is pretty simple, but does enjoy the back and forth topics such as this. It makes you think a little and let's people express themselves. Kind of a roundtable discussion and usually very enlightening! Instead of just insulting each other, maybe we should try to nicely "challenge" each other to explain their words, Now there's a concept!

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 8:04 AM
N_Stephenson,

Thank you for the info! Seems like bueracracies continue to grow in this wonderful "lawsuit" world that, IMHO, "lack of accountability thinking" people have created.

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 8:10 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by bigedd

Kevin you have alot of opions about the 1970's for some one who never
lived them.You were still in pampers in the 80's.
Not making excuses it just the way it was.
Even management turned a blind eye to alot of things they knew that was going on.
You were not working for the railroads in the 70's 80's or the 90's.You
seen to think you know alot since you worked for the railway for the short time
that you have.The reason why we have drug testing is because of some of the
things that have happened.You should know by now
the railways to not changes things buy them self unless a problem comes up
or it can save them money.
Let me ask you this have you ever driven a car after a beer or two.I sure
about 98 percent of the who drink have driven a car after they had a few beers
same thing car or locomotive.



Never. Never in my Life Have i driven Any Equipment That Requires 100% attention and focus after having one or two beer. The minute i even have a sip of alcohol, I'm not Driving. I'll walk home, And i like the exercise, i'll go pick up my car tommorow.

I'm not lying, that is the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

I would neevr get in the car with someone who has drank AT ALL, And when i go to clubs with Mu girlfriend, we don't have anyhtign to drink, because it's a lot more fun watching the Drunk people around you.

And i will say this, It does not matter how the year ends, Be it in a 70, 80, 50, 60, 61,65,72,86, And any other Bingo number i didn't call, Does that Justify, because it is 1972, that You no longer have to practice self moderation, self control, self ability ot say no, Just because it is 1972?

Thats Blamming Society for your individual problems. Bat start.

Thats like telling me Oh the 90's Were Mcdonalds years, And we went to McDonalds BECAUSE everyone was doing it, And we all ordered burgers and got Fat, BUT hey, thats not our Fault, it's the fault of the ninties, man.

Yeah, must be the '00's now, I'll try blamming the '00's next time i get in trouble with alchol, If i ever do ofcourse.

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Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 1:31 PM
Well, Kevin you do bring up a good point - accountability. Sometimes I think it went the way of Common Sense, but we do still need to have accountability.

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

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Posted by Rick Gates on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 3:26 PM
Kevin...I've tried to send something to you a couple of times now and it keeps getting returned and unsent. Not enough memory on server access to get it to you. As for the comments to others on times past. They are refering to the "social climate" of the times. This is not something you can understand while applying your ideals, morals, and values . This is not an excuse for ditching any responsibility/accountability, just a revisionist view of how things were in those days. Hindsight may be 20/20, however you may never understand all of the dynamics that came into play to let this horrible accident occur without first keeping an open mind. Anger, resentments, and hostility in any form defocus the ability to understand and learn from our mistakes. So, if you wish, email me something on your main ISP account or clean up a messenger and, I will send you something. [X-)]
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 4:42 PM
As csxenginner said last night this has been on the top 10 for alomost a month now and we need more debates like this not on the same subjects but on others instead of people wining about starts they got so I Think we need to have more good debates but they prorably wont match this one

DOGGY
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Posted by Nora on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 5:08 PM
Kevin,

When I was little I remember riding around in the "way back" of my parents' station wagon with no seat belt or anything. One of my earliest memories, in fact, is of sitting on my mom's lap, "driving" the car around the back roads where we lived. Neither of those things were any big deal back then even though they could have been extremely dangerous had there been an accident. Now it's rare to see that sort of thing and when it does happen it draws disapproving looks and comments. It's also illegal most places now, as far as I know.

I'd never, ever drive my kids around if they weren't in their car seats. But if I'd been born 30 years earlier, I probably would have done the same as my parents did with me and never thought twice about it. My parents weren't bad parents, but it's hard in hindsight to see how it didn't occur to them that what they were doing was potentially dangerous. They probably never thought about it because that was just what a lot of people did then.

It's not a perfect analogy, but my point is that unless you have lived through a certain time and situation, you can't totally understand what it was like.

I'm not going to comment on the specific situation/accident in question, because I'd never even heard about it until this thread came up a couple months ago. The two articles I've read about it since that time had contradictory details, so I'm just figuring I don't really know anything about it for sure except that there WAS an accident. My point is just that I can see how culture, society, and the railroads could have been very different at that time, and I don't think that automatically translates to "blaming society for their individual problems."
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 6:08 PM
Never. Never in my Life Have i driven Any Equipment That Requires 100% attention and focus after having one or two beer. The minute i even have a sip of alcohol, I'm not Driving. I'll walk home, And i like the exercise, i'll go pick up my car tommorow.

I'm not lying, that is the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

I would neevr get in the car with someone who has drank AT ALL, And when i go to clubs with Mu girlfriend, we don't have anyhtign to drink, because it's a lot more fun watching the Drunk people around you.

And i will say this, It does not matter how the year ends, Be it in a 70, 80, 50, 60, 61,65,72,86, And any other Bingo number i didn't call, Does that Justify, because it is 1972, that You no longer have to practice self moderation, self control, self ability ot say no, Just because it is 1972?

Thats Blamming Society for your individual problems. Bat start.

Thats like telling me Oh the 90's Were Mcdonalds years, And we went to McDonalds BECAUSE everyone was doing it, And we all ordered burgers and got Fat, BUT hey, thats not our Fault, it's the fault of the ninties, man.

Yeah, must be the '00's now, I'll try blamming the '00's next time i get in trouble with alchol, If i ever do ofcourse.




Kevin I think that's a good point you bring up accountablilty and it's a good point about never blaming society
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 6:56 PM


So he did go to his sociology Classes after all!



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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 7:29 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman



So he did go to his sociology Classes after all!




Kevin,
So who are talking about with this sociology Class if you are taliking about me I don't get what you talking about

DOGGY
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Posted by dharmon on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 7:45 PM
I think Nora has put it best. It was a different time and things the we did and that were accepted as normal, aren't anymore. You can't measure yesterday's actions with today's yardstick. It doesn't fit.........We didn't use car seats, folks smoked in restaurants, kids carried BB guns or Oh My God....22's around and shot them down by the river.....without eye, ear, or common sense protection. Heck, there was a time that it was accepted that blacks and whites couldn't even share a restroom. That has changed, so has attitudes with regards to drugs and alcohol.

That being said, that's no justification to go around saying "yeah whatever..he's a rat, because he said everyone is doing it".....cause they were......so was everyone else....pilots, PDs, Firefighters, doctors, everyone......Eventually, just as in about every field that testing or a Rule G type rule is in effect had some incident which led to change.............Northwest had the famous drinking pilots and such... ...Tailhook,....which I didn't even go to...I was on deployment in another freaking half of the world, postponed my promotion as well as everyone else's while it was investigated....that's like me saying that LT Paula Coughlin changed the Navy and made it worse, can't have the boy's club anymore.......whatever.....I blamed her, so did everyone else that touched by it..but we got over it and pressed on.....whatever.....It was a different time and things were different and if it hadn't been that then it would have been something else....so get over over it......at least I can say Tailhook personally affected me.
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Posted by dharmon on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 7:46 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Doggy

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman



So he did go to his sociology Classes after all!




Kevin,
So who are talking about with this sociology Class if you are taliking about me I don't get what you talking about

DOGGY


If it's in red it's not Kevin ..it's his girlfriend.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 8:13 PM
OH SORRY KEVIN

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