Does anyone know what happended to Rickey Gates of Conrailwho caused the big Wreck in Chase, Marylan

[Anonymous]

Ricky I'm glad you steped up and you have the guts to do so.

[Saxman]

CSXengineer: Rule G did not arrive in the rule books during Ronald Regans 8 years in office or as the result of the collision at Gunpow. Mandatory drug testing and engineer certification were the results of this incident. Rule G had been a part of the railroad fabric for many years before this.

You do bring up a valid point regarding crew fatique however. This is a serious problem that both management and the union refuse to deal with. Management does not want to hire (people cost money and cut profits) and on the union side: less trime on the road or in the yard means less per week in the pay check. Neither side can have it both ways. Management: Just enough crews and Union: Work as much as I want and be off when I want. Unfortunately, this will only change when a catastrophic incident like Gunpow happens. Then we will have government intervention and what is pushed on us will not be good.

[csxengineer98]

i stand corrected on Rule G....
csxengineer

[edblysard]

So CSX,
Correct me if I mis read you, but you still want to get stoned and run a locomotive?
Like getting *faced, and driving around town on a saturday night?
You want the people around you the be wasted?
Like, maybe being stoned all the time dosnt contribute to crew fatigue?

Well, if thats what you want, and thats you opinion, your welcome to it.

Just one favor though....
Dont include me in you statement when you use the term "brother".

All of my "brothers" show up for work clean and sober, not wasted and drunk.
Have done so for years, because we understand that running a locomotive when your stoned, or working around a railroad when your drunk is stupid and deadly.

As for "taking care of ourselves", you were apparently doing a pretty crappy job of it.
After all, no one seemd to be "taking care" of Mr Gates, were they?

By the way, I am one of those "rats" you refer to.
Show up on my crew drunk or stoned, and I will turn you in to the trainmaster, in a heartbeat.
I wont trust my life, or any member of my crew's life to someone who is stoned.

What you do off property, in private, on your time, is your business.
What you do when your on property, working around and with me, is mine.

Ed

[dharmon]

So CSX,

You don't mind if I have a drink or two or maybe a little hit on the crack pipe before I fly your family to Disney this summer do you?

[csxengineer98]

doggy....
like i said...no more brotherhood....
and my point about bill is that he was looking down the barrowl of a loaded gun...and to save his ***.... finked on eveyone.... that is my point.... the brotherhood in this job is gone......
you hear about bill...he was the one runngin..what about the rest of his crew.....what about them.... where where that at.... if they where doing thier jobs also..billy would have never gotten past that block.... if i remember correctly....their is a thing called joint responsibilty on the rail road.... when 1 man on your crew messes up...you all take the fall....
where where they at the congretional hearings.... you dont hear about them saying that all thier coworkers where drunk or stoned... only rick....

[kenneo]

CSX

Each of us has an opinion on this subject. And we know yours. And we now know some of the others here on the Forum, also.

I understand your being upset about this. I remember vividly seing the wire come over my teletye that day about this event. I felt a wave of fear and panic knowing just how close some had come to being dead, how their families would be having to deal with it and just how close I had come several times to being the victim. Having to clean the brain tissue from my hair and clothes of a best friend because Charlie had just punched a 30 cal hole in his head, then having to cure the headache that same slug caused me when it hit me (head wound). I remember having to call on soldiers families to inform them that their son or husband was dead.

All they could do was to cope with the present and the future. They - and you, too, can not change the past.

Rick killed one of his friends that day. He killed 12 others, also. Please, until you can walk the mile Rick has had to walk, and do it in his shoes, please ease up on the rhetoric. Believe me, we know how upset your are. But the time has come for healing. You do not have to forgive - or forget. But you do have to heal, both for yourself and for all of the others.

God Bless

Inserting Sock - again. (This thing is beginning to need to see the wash.)

[CShaveRR]

My, you never know whom you'll get to talk to on these forums!

As someone who's never smoked or done anything illicit, I can only shake my head at the incident. But as a railroader who has caused a bad accident (I got fired, but also got back after 60 days), I know a few things that must have been going through your mind in the days following the disaster. Prescription drugs may have contributed to my inattention, so I guess I'm thankful that my accident was before yours.

I'm glad, though, that railroads and railroaders have awakened to the fact that there are problems, and you have to be given a lot of credit for that. I know how bad things had been. And even though the random tests never got the "harvest" that was expected, I have no doubt that things are cleaner because of them.

To the folks that doubted it: Rule G has been around for a very long time. However, it only pertained to alcoholic beverages until the incident. After that, it eventually was broadened to include narcotics and other drugs. I don't begrudge the company a cupful now and then for a random test, or even a probable-cause incident, because I fully expect not to run afoul of what used to be Rule G (the GCOR number isn't as easy to remember). And I really think that there's less of a chance that anyone I'm working with nowadays is being influenced by alcohol or drugs, though I do know of people who have still slipped through the net (only to get fired for other things).

Again, welcome, and good luck!

Carl

(Whew...I think I deserve a star for this one!)

[Allen Jenkins]

So..... what? Theeeeeeeeeee Ric Gates? wwaht? But///////amd-and so...............&Yes. boy, did you change lives,,,,,,,,,,and so. Oh, oh, i heard you became spokesman, sort of poster boy, for the drug war! Great. All I had in this world, is Mr. Kalmbach, and his personal interests to get me through the tension of the trouble which befell the entire transportation industry. So I'm explaining the circumstances that brought about the one hour of orientation to the factor of the render of an sample of my presents upon my job. Thank you for the rapoire in the office to the such of aim. The out come is that the dea needed an excuse for tax substantiation to the event that four thousand crashies ocurred on the highway involving fatalities, and it was al blamed on substance abuse. Great! I agree that the users need a little help, so are you finding the solution? Or just a part of the problem? I've heard that you attracted $50,000 per visit to the lectures you generated. Great. We should have known that a divorce, long hours+the next crew out should have took it's toll, but you accepted full responsibility for the accident that changed the reality of even the rescuers. It was my understanding that you were challenged to the event which occured. Not to say locking three B-36's down helped. Bad choices prevailed. But the event of sleepwalking, and assuming responsilility for the such, is a cut above. The jar-lid bulls-eye aside, Conrail Engineer Rick Gates, I want you to know I've been praying for you, God Loves You!, and I forgive you though we went through a catastrophic event together, thanks for showing up tonight, just work your butt off, whatch Dr. Phill, from time to time, (set your VCR), and good Luck! Remember, I care!...........I became a tree man! Enjoy Your Hobby!ACJ.

[Rick Gates]

Sorry Allen...I'm not certain of the language/dialect however; I have never done lectures that I recieved any remuneration for. I have never been any kind of "poster boy" for the "drug war," and was not working quick turns nor was I divorced at the time of the accident. I do take responsibility for my actions/inactions. I can't take responsibility for everyone elses. Thanks for your prayers and God bless you.

[Allen Jenkins]

Rick, This is foots,
Thanks for the quick comback, the info I was into was either public tele, or a doc,(sixty min, or such). The factors of the incident not withstanding, thanks for the comeback. However, you see, someone was paying attention. Later on tonight, go to Planet Auran, www.Auran.com they've made the best of a Christmas with no money for me , after all, Christmas is not about the kids, it's about a baby. I figure, since you still pay attention to the Worlds Greatest Hobby, you might observe something to use, maybe contribute, and believe, you have something to add. Remember to see "The Passion." We done that, to Him, and He still loves us!..........Enjoy..........Acj.;-)

[Anonymous]

It's good to have you on the forums, Rick. As others have mentioned before, it takes a real man to admit to his mistakes and realise what he did wrong. We all make screw-ups, but the important thing is that we learn from them. People are more likely to listen to someone who knows first hand the dangers of drugs than someone who doesn't. There's now more awareness about this whole issue because of you and that's a good thing.

[Anonymous]

What is the reason Hertiage Cars can't go 125 MPH like Amfleets because I know their was one on the Colonal

[Rick Gates]

Doggy- Don't know the exact technical reason. I know it has to do with the older truck assembly design. Heritage cars pre-date all of the Amfleet and metroliner style cars.

[Anonymous]

Thank Rick for the Amfleet Info

[Anonymous]

Thank Rick for the Amfleet Info

[Anonymous]

Were their empty cars on the train and where was the Hertiage and what number was it.

DOGGY

[AntonioFP45]

Guys,

[8)]Not trying to throw in a monkey wrench, but those same type of "Heritage" cars ran in trains pulled by E7s and E8s in the 1950s. While not the norm, 90 to 100+ mph passenger train speeds could still be seen in the U.S.[^]

Back in the mid 1980s, I had the good fortune to hear from a former Atlantic Coast Line Railroad locomotive engineer who, on several occasions pushed "The Champion" to 110 mph" to make up time. Several retired CSX employees could cooberate this. I believe it was either in the Carolinas or North Florida where the high quality of the tracks could tolerate these speeds. The ride in the cars supposedly was smooth (so was the track work). [4:-)] In the northeast, GG1s pulled passenger trains at 100mph plus speeds between Washington and New York City.

I've ridden in Heritage Fleet cars as well as the "Amcans". The ride in the Amfleet cars, IMHO, is bouncier and at time "jolty". I assumed it was due to the cars light weight on rough track. I really enjoyed riding the old streamlined equipment which even on rough track seemed to ride decently.[;)]

On a trip from Florida to New York in the early 90s on the Amtrak Silver Meteor, my mom and I left our Amfleet coach, went and sat in the Heritage Fleet lounge car. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! After eating a snack, my mom didn't want to leave the car as she noticed that the riding qualities of the heavier car were much better than the Amcan.

[Anonymous]

AnttonioFP45 Thank You for your 2 cents owrth and those AMCAN'S ARE BOUNCY I LIKE THE HORIZON BETTER THAN THE AMCANS

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Mr. Gates,

I'm skeptical, but I will assume that it is really you visiting these threads about the "Collision at Gunpow" as Reader's Digest called it.

I saw the national news flash about 1 hour after the collision. It was "heart breaking". I must admit that when the facts came out days later, I felt absolutely furious with you as I was a frequent Amtrak rider and in my rage I had hoped that you would be tortured. I also felt that at the same time, you must have felt horrified as well as you did not intend to kill or hurt anyone..

Today, as a tech-teacher, I talk to the kids a lot about drugs and the transportation industry. Every year since 1997, I've talked to new students about the Collision at Gunpow in detail. This school year, a 14 year old 9th grade boy in my class was bragging about and praising getting high on weed. After letting him talk, I went to the board, slowly drew the track layout , and told them the story. In describing the events, when I got to the part about the point of impact, I yelled out "BAM!" and made some kids jolt in their seats. I was surprised at how somber the class became for the remainder of the period. No one was laughing.

I stil have the reader's digest article, but I haven't looked at it since 1995 since I had memorized most of the article.

[tup]
I'm glad that you are doing someting positive and productive with your experiences.
If you are really Mr. Gates, then I hope that if you ever visit Florida, you'd be willing to speak to school students about your experiences, especially in Tampa. It's also impotant to point out the positive thing that you've been accomplishing also.

As for the "ratting" that CSXEngineer is talking about, I don't totally agree or more accurately understand all of his points though he makes them intelligently. I'm going to re-read his responses carefully as I did breeze through them since I was in a rush.

When I worked at a transit authority years back, I was a member of Almagamated Transit Union and was a Shop Steward until I left for a career change in 1997. We had similar issues as the railroad industry, however, I was one of the few union officials that supported drug testing. I pointed out to my union brothers and sisters that my mother and close friends rode transit buses frequently. I wanted drivers and maintenance personnel to be clear headed when working so the traveling public would be safe. We had a tumultuous relationship with our management, but in the ratified agreement, an employee testing positive for illegal substances would be suspended 90 days, required to attend a drug treatment program, and then allowed to return to full status and seniority upon successful completion.

[Anonymous]

Antoino FP45 I agree with you with CSXENGINEER with ratting he's talking about I don't get and I will reread them also and I'm glad you talk about that kind of stuff it's good for kids

DOGGY

[Anonymous]

Not to re-open old wounds and memories for Ricky and the victims but this accident , footage, and narrative can be seen on "Runaway Trains 2" produced by the Discovery Channel and Unipix. BTW- his loco # was 5044. Thanks for sharing Ricky- I can only begin to imagine what you and many others went through on that sad day.History has shown that it takes devastating events like this to promote change.Keep on keeping on!

[Rick Gates]

Thank-you guys for the kind and hopeful words. It made me think about a Dr. that I was sent to shortly after the accident. He gave me a copy of a newspaper article of a Ship's Captain some years earlier that had incorrectly navigated his ship under a bridge in Fla. and caused some injuries and death as well as the damage(can't recall the details). The story told of the Captain's turmoil and that he went on to get his degree and was counseling and hepling others. At that time, I was considering suicide, though I did not tell the Dr. or others, and that article inspired a small glimmer of hope in me that I might get through this. The reason that I went into counseling and many other odd jobs, was in part, to put myself in the shoes and dreams of some of the victims of the crash. For instance, I had read that Christy Johnson (one of the victims) was inspired by her experiences to become an addiction counselor and give something back. Her young life was cut short and; with some similarities, I was motivated to do the same. I have learned that we can use our worst experiences to help others avoid and /or recover from theirs'. Negative thoughts and feelings may help us to vent though if we continue to dwell in them, they will only harm their owner. As I have stated before, I testified in front of the Congressional committie at the request of the victims and for the same reason, went on to do inteviews with the likes of TV's 20/20 and 48 hours (footage in the Discovery Channel program), even though it was in was aired and edited originally to liable me. The purpose ultimately was for public awareness of problem issues within the RR industry and society as a whole. I commend anyone who takes the responsibility and effort to make a difference in someone's life through awareness and mentoring as AntonioFP45 has. Toyomantrains has also, eloquettely phrased what we need to learn from our history and has shown that he remembers. When I worked on the RR I was Intimidated and annoyed with Railfans on several occasions because they seemed to know more statistical and sometimes technical details than I did. I had the attitude that they should "get a life." Now I am the railfan, and have been re-inspired by the knowledge and ideas of each and every one of you. Also, many of you are using this knowledge to get positve changes made, to address problems, and keep our heritage. Finally, Doggy, I'm sorry that I don't remember where the Heritage car was positioned on the Colonial that day, though I think there were probably passengers on every car as there were over 600 aboard already and 4 more stops to make before NYC. Thank-you all.

[kenneo]

Rick - You are certainly welcome. It is - and has been - an honor to know you even though it is only via this Forum. As toyomantrains said, Keep on Keeping On. An old DS friend of mine would say "that the train ain't in until the marker's there. So, I don't see no red light on your ***. You can't quit until the back shop installs one. And they ain't agoin to."

God Bless

[daveklepper]

I try to judge people on what they are and doing now. We are commanded by the Eternal to show forgiveness: "Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord." Because Rick Gates is now a useful citizen who has repented for past errors and is doing really good things, I think we should welcome him back to the Human Race. At least that is my own personal opinion. Dave Klepper

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

I try to judge people on what they are and doing now. We are commanded by the Eternal to show forgiveness: "Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord." Because Rick Gates is now a useful citizen who has repented for past errors and is doing really good things, I think we should welcome him back to the Human Race. At least that is my own personal opinion. Dave Klepper

I agree very much, Dave. [;)]

Rick is a member of our msn messenger chat group. And everyone enjoys him being in chat. I invited him and he came willingly and is a good person. Anyone wanting to talk with him in chat is welcome as long as they remain civil toward him and the others in chat.

[csxengineer98]

blaa blaa blaa...
hes still a rat

csx engineer

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

blaa blaa blaa...
hes still a rat

csx engineer

The old engineer retired in 1981. This was long before this all happened. At that time, he said the railroad was becoming a scary place with all the drugs. They always had to deal with drinking, but now the drugs were becoming a real problem. So the change in the railroads came long before this accident happened. I don't think you are being very fair to blame all the railroad changes and problems on this particular person.

[zardoz]

There are two problems with urine testing.

1. You are being presumed guilty until you are proven innocent. (I think our Constitution had something to say about that)

2. The test has no bearing on whether a person is either currently under the influence, or toked weeks ago while on personal time.

I'm all in favor of a test that accurately shows current level of impairment; however, what a person does on their own time should be their own business.

And spare me the inevitable lecture about legality, because that is not the issue here.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

blaa blaa blaa...
hes still a rat

csx engineer

If I remember correctly you became a CSX engineer in ummmm 98? ..... and this incident happened in ummm 87? or so...so your PERSONAL experience with this is...............??????? And your empirical evidence to support this allegation is...???

....I stand by what I said earlier.....you don't mind if I have a couple hits before I fly your family somewhere....off duty off course you know ....an hour or two before preflight....do you.......well....???

..........THEN GIVE IT A REST