Does anyone know what happended to Rickey Gates of Conrailwho caused the big Wreck in Chase, Marylan

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

There are two problems with urine testing.

1. You are being presumed guilty until you are proven innocent. (I think our Constitution had something to say about that)

2. The test has no bearing on whether a person is either currently under the influence, or toked weeks ago while on personal time.

I'm all in favor of a test that accurately shows current level of impairment; however, what a person does on their own time should be their own business.

And spare me the inevitable lecture about legality, because that is not the issue here.

I go through metal detectors, which in my mind is the same presumed guilty. I would pee in a bottle, gladly, if it would insure my safety at work. I am monitored constantly on closed-circuit tv when I shop. I don't feel my rights are less - I feel a little more secure (maybe foolishly). You can't have total freedom - that is why we have laws. If I was going to "do drugs" - I would do it in a job like mine - I push a pen and work on a puter. I don't handle anything much more electrical than a radio for music and don't drive anything except my point of view!

[AntonioFP45]

Mr. Gates,
Regarding the ship:


For those that want to reasearch this, it happened during the spring of 1980 when I was in high school.

A large cargo ship called the Summit Venture was in stormy, foggy weather on Tampa Bay. The pilot, John Lero, not the Captain made a miscalculation and at low speed slammed into one of the support pylons that held up the span of the Sunshine Skyway Bridge. The decking over the water collapsed. A Greyhound bus and several cars plunged below. One car stopped just in time and was sitting right at the very edge of the section that remained. When I got home from school, it was on every channel.

If I remember correctly, John realized that a mistake had been made, but of course stopping or turning a ship suddenly is even more futile than stopping a train.

John went through trials, tribulations, hate mail, etc. His license was revoked. Last I read, he was an instructor for the maritime industry. He too speaks of his experience to help up and coming mariners.

CSX Engineer: I've read some of your other posts before and you always offer great info. I was a former union rep myself and was protective of my members but, while Rick was looking at serious time, don't you think that what he did had to be done? I don't think I could have remained quiet. Also, if I had known that train crews members were frequently high or "buzzed" I would have never stepped aboard any Amtrak train with my family, as I was a frequent rider in the 80s. And yes, we know that this happened in the airline industry also. You're absolutely right about crew fatigue, which is just as dangerous, but that point can't justify any union member or officer keeping quiet about drug/alcohol abuse! Not when human life is at stake! Think of it if the lives saved were that of your family members.


I was very fortunate to know Engineer Randall Hodges who often ran the Silver Meteor when I rode it. Solid, decent man that handled passenger trains smoothly and always did his job with a smile. He retired in 86. CSX's loss.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

blaa blaa blaa...
hes still a rat

csx engineer

csxengineer[:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!][:(!]
You attatuede towards towards this nice man is UTTERLY PATHETOIC would you please stop with RAT BUSINESS he served his time and he steped foward and addimmied what he did. SO PLEASE STOP

DOGGY

[Anonymous]

Antoino
You bring up a good point about crew fatige I ride Amtrak frequntly and I wouldn't if the crew was always high and I hate flying because of crew fatige

[csxengineer98]

doggy or puppy or what ever your name is agin
i have the right to my oppion...you dont like what i have to say....then dont read my postings..simple as that...
the last time i looked the 1st ammendment was still in in the Constitution....but i guess it only applys anymore in here to the status quo...
and to make a one more point.....i am not alone in my feelings... a good friend of mine that is also an engineer for a major rail road feels the same way as i do...... and the 2 of us are not alone in our view of Billy " THE RAT" Gates...
rail roaders are divided on the issue..some say it was for the best...and some say he sold out to save his own ***....
bottom line.... yes he screwed up.....and i will give him this..he did claim responsibily for his actions.... but when it came down his *** going to jail for life... he rolled over on his brothers.....
this is how i feel...you dont like it...fine.... but you cant expect all the butt kissing of bill gates from people in this forum to be met without some resistance.....
csx engineer

[espeefoamer]

CSX, It took a lot of guts for Mr.Gates to come onto this forum and admit what he did. I think he could use a little compassion instead of being slammed.

[edblysard]

CSX,
We got it,
You think T&E employees should be allowed to report for duty stoned and drunk.
We got it.

You dont like Mr Gates,
We got it.

You belive your entitled to your opinion.
I agree, you are, and we have read it, several times.

You think he is a rat, even though he didnt name names...
We got that too!

What we dont have is the example where you screwed up, and were as up front about it as he has been.
Or are you perfect, and never screwed the pooch?

Wonder how many times you used the engineers favorite defense, "I was just doing what the conductor told me too" ?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

doggy or puppy or what ever your name is agin
i have the right to my oppion...you dont like what i have to say....then dont read my postings..simple as that...
the last time i looked the 1st ammendment was still in in the Constitution....but i guess it only applys anymore in here to the status quo...
and to make a one more point.....i am not alone in my feelings... a good friend of mine that is also an engineer for a major rail road feels the same way as i do...... and the 2 of us are not alone in our view of Billy " THE RAT" Gates...
rail roaders are divided on the issue..some say it was for the best...and some say he sold out to save his own ***....
bottom line.... yes he screwed up.....and i will give him this..he did claim responsibily for his actions.... but when it came down his *** going to jail for life... he rolled over on his brothers.....
this is how i feel...you dont like it...fine.... but you cant expect all the butt kissing of bill gates from people in this forum to be met without some resistance.....
csx engineer

1st of all I'm doggy not puppy also you have your right to free speech but I don't like your swear words you are saying on this Mr. Gates dosne't deserve to be treated like that. We've got it you dislike this man so lets give this a rest[B)][B)

[dharmon]

So CSX I get I get it too.... your pissed cause you can't get al &^%ed and go drive trains......

By the way...I am CSX shareholder......if you pop positive, I hope they fry you...from a purely financial perspective......a negligent homicide lawsuit is a lot more expensive than canning you hoss.

You see whiz quizzes are way of life for me, and so is not being drunk on duty.....last month I took a stripe from a dude who was drunk while on duty. Six months ago, I took one from a guy who stopped drinking eight hours before work.....drove in, and BAC'd .09. He's lucky I got him and not the cops or hurt someone.

You never did answer the question....if it's okay for trains how about planes, or semi's???

So yes, you are entitled to your opinion. However, when that opinion includes allegations, derogatory name calling and all that trash, you are also entitled to get it tossed back at you. And you don't have to read this either.

[Anonymous]

Mr. Gates,
I am very sorry if this forum has made you bring back bad memories I truly apolgize about this forum and don't pay attention to what csxenginner says again I'm sorry if this made you feel bad.

DOGGY[*^_^*][*^_^*][*^_^*][*^_^*][*^_^*][*^_^*][*^_^*][*^_^*][*^_^*][banghead][banghead][banghead]

[Anonymous]

CSX,
It sounds to me that you don't like 'change'. Perhaps you are stuck in the past with the memories, passion, and comraderie of the Brotherhood that was. I tend to fight change also but then ultimately acclimate my outlook and attitude towards it for the benifit of the whole.
I wonder if you would have a problem if I performed work on your vehicle- say a brake job- if I were under the influence of a controlled (or not) substance? Tell you what... drop your vehicle off with me right before you go on your Disney plane trip.
I commend Rick Gates for joining in on this forum, for admitting his fault, for accepting his responsibility, for being the catalyst for ruleG, for changing his life and not ending it, and being open to us about a very painful and tragic event. My Dad always told me to find the positive in each negative situation (I was a pretty bad kid and he is a Pastor so we had many talks) and I think Rick is doing that.
CSX- you need to let go and move on and I hope to GOD that we never unexpecte:)dly meet at a grade crossing :)

[Rick Gates]

It appears as if I am the one who has "opened the can of worms" by my presence and comment in this forum. I remember (to my embarassment) that the first words quoted by me after the accident in the media were "What I do on my own time is my own business, I'm not hurting anyone then." I had hurt so many and still didn't get it. Please do not be harsh with CSX98 for his "opinions." It doesn't bother me. In fact, it is like looking in a mirror to myself and my past. I was 32 years old when this accident occured and my thoughts were quite impassioned and similar. Since he was not in the business then, he has apparently confederated himself with like thinking others with a percieved fear of the change they belive is occurring. For instance, I never ran a steam hog and romance the idea, however I know if I worked on one in their era, I would dislike aspects of the job, and also the procedure and rule changes that came about with the intoduction of diesel. I always get a chuckle when someone evades the legal issues they are talking about while invoking the constitution. Alcohol and drugs may always be a problem in any industry. We hope for progress in making it safer. In my case, not until too late for those harmed. Even white collar workers under the influence, may inadvertently affect the lives, reputations and finances of those they are paid to serve. Most people I think are good. No one may intend to harm others, yet we might at times do so with all of the best motives. From time to time I chat with Jim and others in the MSN chat as he has mentioned. I am glad he invited me and hope to learn your experiences and opinions there as well. Being here, I think we have alot in common. A love of TRAINS!

[Anonymous]

Rick, while I'm glad CSX's comments don't bother you- I think they DO bother the rest of us and imply a plausible reasonalization that he,somehow, is above the law and above any code of decency and moral standards. Hopefully not- but maybe HE will be the next poster boy for "Runnaway Trains'.

[Anonymous]

Rick, It's good it doseen't bother you csx98 comments bother me

[Anonymous]

One thing to remember, which I think most of us realize is that you cannot change the past. And things happen for a reason. Things also change because of what has happened in the past. What csxengineer98 needs to realize is that if Rick Gates accident did not occur it would have happened to someone else!!! And then that guy would have been the one sitting there on the hot seat. I for one am very happy that things have changed. I just started working on the railroad and I couldn't tell you how happy I am that drug/alcohol abuse are not prevalent anymore. I am from a new generation of railroad workers who have an entirely different mindset than the old timers. We have the benefit of learning from their mistakes as well as bad company policies. I don't know any other way to operate on the railroad than the way that I was taught, the same goes for the old timers. They used to do all kinds of dangerous stuff because everthing was about moving the trains along. The companies saw the workers as expendable. My instructors told me that they would be exluded by their co-workers if they did not join in on the "festivities" of drug use. Don't get me wrong, I value what the veterans have to say, and most of them do what they can to help me out, but they even tell me to do as they say, not as they do. And from day one I am not gonna let some hard head who can't move on from the old days screw things up. If some engineer refused to operate safely, i.e. speeding, etc. I'd pull that emergecy valve and call that dispatcher in no time. I'd tell that engineer he could cut his engines and keep going, but he's not going to take my train with him!!! I may only be 23 years old, but I have more sense than to sit there and let something happen when I have the control to stop it. That's just the way things are now. From all that has happened and all that I learned I have no excuse to turn the other cheek. I know there is a darker side to "safety, safety, safety" i.e. the rail companies pushing to change to paying out workmans comp instead of the better deal we have now, but believe me I will walk the line because working for the railroad is still one of the best jobs you can have!!!

Nathan "Out" [soapbox]

[Anonymous]

As is the way it shoulld be. Eventually, the industry and its measures will weed-out all of the CSX's (from this post) Hopefully anyway!

[csxengineer98]

i have never had an issue at work....i have been 100% rules complyinent....and have never had a displanary investigation...and the few derailments i have been involed in have never been by any fault of mine.... i dont speed.... i obey all singal rules... i comply with Rule G....
but someone made the commment that billy didnt name names..... thats only a half truth.... you dont need to name names when you say that all rail roaders are on drungs or drunks... that incumpaues eveyone...such as he did in his testimony at the government hearings....
you people only read what you want to read.... try reading all of what i say..insted of picking and chossing some words i say to use aginst me in some twisted battle of whits
csx engineer

[bnsfkline]

.....I feel this is getting out of hand, leave CSXengineer alone, or this channel may go into a civil war. Do we REALLY want to have a "War amongst the Forums?"

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bnsfkline

.....I feel this is getting out of hand, leave CSXengineer alone, or this channel may go into a civil war. Do we REALLY want to have a "War amongst the Forums?"

bnsfkline I have to agree woth you 110% that this is getting out of hand I thought this was going a good question then when we found out what ever this would stop but no this is turning into the Packers Vs. the Bears rivaly so please let it stop.

DOGGY

[Goober]

I think that we all need to realize that the actions of the few have affected the many. Not necessarily right or wrong, just reality. This has been an interesting topic, and I have enjoyed the give and take on the subject. I think that we need to put ourselves in his position and what would we have done. Not an excuse, but something for us all to think about. Keep in mind that we have 20/20 hindsight on this, and we are/were not in Rick's position at the time. I wonder if he had a "muligan" to use, how many times do you think he wished he could use it.

enjoy the ride

[Anonymous]

Right on Goober. Let's end the bantering back and forth and talk some good railroad stuff. We know where everyone stands, so let's all just move on. I didn't intend any malice towards CSXengineer98 by my statement, just letting everyone know where I stand. [^]

[Anonymous]

CRAP...

I'm lost...

Was this Derailment before my time?

And to sum everything up, were talking with the person who caused this...??

Either A) I have a fever, which certainly could be.
B) i'm very lost...
C) i have things straight...
D) whatever other posibilities may exist...

So are we trying to Tell me, we are speaking with the Actual engineer that caused this Derailment?

I must be feeling worse then i thought...

[AntonioFP45]

Kevin,


I haven't read the article in a very long time but in a very condensed nutshell:

This happened in the mid 80s. The Amtrak "Colonial" cruising at 100+ mph, slammed into the 3rd locomotive of a trio of locomotives being operated by Conrail Engineer Richard Gates in what is called a "Light Engine Move". Mr. Gates had been moving the units on a track that crossed the mainline that the Colonial was traveling on. He passed a "stop" signal. When he did stop, the 3rd unit, a 4 axle GE unit, was not clear of the Colonial's right of way. It was later determined Mr. Gates was impaired due to the effects of having smoked Marijuana.

The trajedy make news nationwide. I'm still a bit skeptical but apparently, Rick Gates, the former Conrail Engineer has been responding to questions and opinions. I must admit to being surprised as back then I wondered what kind of person he was. He knows that for a while, he was the most despised man in the news and the transportation world.

One interesting "backlash" effect that came out of this: In addition to reports of trains crews working high, many reports started quickly circulating about drug abuse in the cockpits of MANY commercial airliners!

On a personal note though, I find it so hard to believe that many, many, many railroaders were getting high during the 70s and 80s. I would hope that it was a small number. It stands to reason that a lot of railroaders, like the ones I've met, while working with faitigue did not believe in compromising their standards and endangering lives.

[jeaton]

I can understand where CSXengineer98 is coming from. Anyone who is anywhere behaving themselves and doing their job as they should hates to be painted with the same brush as the bad actors in their class. "All" or "everyone" in train service in that era were not on drugs or alcohol. There may have been significant numbers, but that not only reflected bad judgement or attitude on the part of those who indulged, but also pretty sloppy management.

One has to remember something about the "war on drugs" of that era. In many areas, expecially political, there was a very high degree of ferver among those seeking to stop any drug use anywhere, anyway, period. Rick Gates became a sort of a poster boy for those who wanted to make the point that drug useage was the preeminent threat to our way of life. (Sort of like terrorism these days). I am in agreement on one point, anyone who is high or drunk ought to be prohibited from any activities that could endanger others. I also think that employers have the right to expect or demand that employees on the job are sober, no mater the job assignment. However, if one is compelled or simply desires to indulge in some substance, I'd prefer that it would be slept off before hitting the streets. At least that would reflect being personally responsible for one's behavior.

[Anonymous]

People change.

Rick has changed.

The railroad industry has changed because of that accident.

And as someone else has said in this thread, If Rick didn't cause an accident, someone else would have.

There have been other posts in other threads about employees smoking or drinking on the job. It happens in every industry period. Is it better today than it was? I hope so, but I really don't know for sure.

Rick paid his dues for this accident. Give the man a break.

[Anonymous]

Ok now this is going to make me look like the black Sheep.. But

I can't believe he is Rick Gates.

Look Internet 101 class srictly tells you not to believe everything you hear, which is also a good practice in society.

Look, If i told you my name Was kevin, i'm 19 years old and live in Quebec, And you don't believe me, thats fine, thats the interent. I'm not going to forward documents to prove i'm who I am, If you don't want to beleieve me, that is fine..

So Mr. Gates, If you feel like E-mailing me to talk to me about this more, you can.

Until thne, I don't know, and I just can't believe your him.

[Anonymous]

hmmm... 12 hours later no-email

Let me be abit more Clear, I'd like you to E-mail me Mr. Gates.

[Anonymous]

Kev [:p]

Rick emailed me proof. I am very satisfied it is him. Why would anyone want to take the abuse he is receiving in the forums and has at other times elsewhere?

Kev, don't be so fuddy duddy. [;)] [}:)] [:p]

[Anonymous]

Why should he e-mail you.
What is he to gain.He paid his dues and does not have to prove
any thing to any one.
There was alot of drug and booze in the 70's and 80's.
I know I seen alot of it and alot of use took are fellow workers
home to cover it up.
And again if it was not him it would of be some one else.

[Rick Gates]

Sorry Kevin........There is no such thing as "Internet 101 class" however; there is "Networking For Dummies!" lol Just kidding. I've already talked with you on MSN. You must have been in a Permissive Block.......somewhere in the Twilight Zone........I'll try to email something or other..............maybe.......just because you got brass kid.[:-^]