I take it the junk wasn't for sale...
Maybe now it will get cleaned up.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
I don't see how you can make a statement like your headline and still feel that even some of the nice folks who work there are "ok", or that one single terse reply should colour your opinion of the railroad. It doesn't make sense that you could like the losers who work there (this is my terminology meant only for illustrative purposes...I don't feel that anyone who works for any organization is necessarily a "loser"...I'll get on with my point...) but still hate where they work. In other words, how can they be "ok" and still want to work for such a hateful organization. That makes them losers, doesn't it? It would for me.
My point is that one disgruntled, truculent, P.O.'d, hungry, angry, passed-over middle manager who replied in any way not meeting your favour should not reflect on the entire organization...or if I am wrong, then they all should...'cuz they work for this very loser organization that he works for. All for one, one for all.
If I were in your position, and I am not able to agree or disagree with your reaction or to the tone of the response, I would contact his VP superior and ask him/her if he/she feels that this was an appropriate response to the question you asked...which you will foward as well. Once you begin to get a feel for the "management" in general, then you can feel justified in feeling uneasy about the leadership at the organization. Maybe, just maybe, the person who replied to you needs to have his/her leash jerked. It happens. I had it happen to me once or twice.
So... one email from one person and now you hate the whole railroad? Interesting.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Dan
Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.
Lord Atmo wrote:what part of UP do you hate? UP railroad or UP corporation? i only hate the latter. Omahaha is the main reason behind almost everything UP has done to ruin any chance i had at reliving my beloved CNW past
Which I am sure Omaha is very broken up about.
An "expensive model collector"
"Lionel trains are the standard of the world" - Jousha Lionel Cowen
Hm. I received no response to similar request to the BNSF Community Relations person. But at least he wasn't terse, blunt, and rude.
I would expect a polite "no" answer to be something like, "I'm sorry, but we have to put all unused items through a materials reclamation and disposal process. However, thank you for your interest in the Union Pacific Railroad."
The last time I looked, clocks did not run backwards and time travel is physically impossible. The absorbtion of C&NW by UP may not have been inevitable but a lot of prior events definitely led up to it.
Erie Lackawanna and Monon vanished as separate entities many years ago and Alco/MLW stopped building locomotives some time back but I don't take anybody to task for it.
I think we have to see the text of both communications to make any decision.
However, if the situation is as you believe it is, posting the exchange here would be a sure-fire way of bringing it to the attention of a wide variety of people at the UP. I would not want to be in the shoes of the UP manager should that occur.
CSSHEGEWISCH wrote: The last time I looked, clocks did not run backwards and time travel is physically impossible.
The last time I looked, clocks did not run backwards and time travel is physically impossible.
Your headline indicates you now "hate" U.P.
Well, I take it you think U.P. really cares at all that you hate them...GUESS AGAIN!
As a final note, perhaps I should've titled my posting as "Add me to the UP middle-manager haters club". I don't have the e-mail reply anymore, but suffice it to say it was as I described. I've blown the steam-off I needed to release. I'd rather not post both messages anyway, since my original inquiry would identify the precise location of that junk and if it winds-up missing, I'd be the first person they'd want to investigate. As a collective, corporate entity, yes, I've disliked the UP for a long time after their celebrated trademark-licensing snit-fit with the model railroad manufacturers and their persecution of a railroad photographer for publishing a calendar with a photo of some UP equipment depicted. The response I received on Mon. morning further degraded my low opinion of UP management. It wasn't, however, something that I want to pursue further in terms of getting the attention of the person's supervisor or other railroad management. It's past history at this point and it's an issue that's not worth affecting someone's job over (nowhere near that kind of problem).
In reply to Eolafan, I don't expect UP would care whether I hate/love/dislike/like them or not. Like all of us, however, I am in a position to vote in local, state and federal elections, and that's the one time that a person who isn't interested in shipping 500 tons of wheat can have an influence on railroad issues.
I can dislike management and still respect the rank & file because in a railroad, just like any other business, it's management (mostly upper-management) who set the tone for corporate relations with the general public, and it's the workers who make the operation a success. I work in a white-collar, non-managerial position myself as an engineer, and rest assured my opinion of mid-to-upper-management in my own workplace isn't much better.
Atmo,
No offense, man, but have you ever made a post on this board where you weren't complaining about how the CNW is gone forever? I miss them too, but if you are so bent on not seeing them, you're not going to see what's around now.
I wuld say it's kind of like when steam departed and a good chunk of the railfans missed some really cool first generation diesels because they weren't steam.
Just my to help you make the most of your hobby.
-ChrisWest Chicago, ILChristopher May Fine Art Photography"In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams
CopCarSS wrote: Atmo,No offense, man, but have you ever made a post on this board where you weren't complaining about how the CNW is gone forever? I miss them too, but if you are so bent on not seeing them, you're not going to see what's around now.I wuld say it's kind of like when steam departed and a good chunk of the railfans missed some really cool first generation diesels because they weren't steam.Just my to help you make the most of your hobby.
I think you got this one nailed, Chris... Such negativity[Atmo's] can do no good, and is far from being able to find a constructive solution to any issue. The CNW was an interesting study of a company that had many problems and many fine points. The problem was that they seemed to be constantly having problems which they could not resolve, and so were wide open to being either picked up for their assets or abandoned[a la MILW]. Even the corporate sale to its employees was not a salvation.
The historical battle between coproprate rail management, and the practical , boots on the ballast employees, was indicative of some of the labor-management problems voiced by WIAR, who also seems to have continuing issues with his own co-workers. It has got to be really problematic for someone to go to work everyday, and do a job that outwardly he seems to espouse such latent negativity about his work environment.
Atmo...
Dude... ya gotta get over it, okay? I used to love watching the CNW work at Proviso Yard (I grew up a mile from there), and watching the slow freights through Elmhurst... The BN, ICG, and CNW are some of my earliest railroad memories.....but they're gone. And there isn't anything I can do about it. The UP didn't buy the CNW to spite you.
From a customer service standpoint, a courteous reply would have been the norm, but perhaps, WIAR you probably caught the one guy who was having a bad day for whatever reason.
Unfortunately, from a customer, or even public standpoint, one employee's attitude can make or break a relationship with a customer, or alter the public's perception of a company. You know how it goes: we are more likely, as consumers, to spread the word about bad service, then we are about good service, that's just the way it goes.
samfp1943 wrote: CopCarSS wrote: Atmo,No offense, man, but have you ever made a post on this board where you weren't complaining about how the CNW is gone forever? I miss them too, but if you are so bent on not seeing them, you're not going to see what's around now.I wuld say it's kind of like when steam departed and a good chunk of the railfans missed some really cool first generation diesels because they weren't steam.Just my to help you make the most of your hobby.I think you got this one nailed, Chris... Such negativity[Atmo's] can do no good, and is far from being able to find a constructive solution to any issue. The CNW was an interesting study of a company that had many problems and many fine points. The problem was that they seemed to be constantly having problems which they could not resolve, and so were wide open to being either picked up for their assets or abandoned[a la MILW]. Even the corporate sale to its employees was not a salvation. The historical battle between coproprate rail management, and the practical , boots on the ballast employees, was indicative of some of the labor-management problems voiced by WIAR, who also seems to have continuing issues with his own co-workers. It has got to be really problematic for someone to go to work everyday, and do a job that outwardly he seems to espouse such latent negativity about his work environment.
samfp1943:
Please note I said "mid-to-upper-management" in my own work-place, not my "co-workers". Believe me, there's a big difference.
In the interest of Fairness and Accuracy:
Since documentation to back up this claim isn't being provided, it is grossly unfair to UP.
The charges allegations therefore mean nothing and the thread should have never happened. It indicts a company of over 50,000 employees because of the alleged actions of one employee. Action of which no proof exists.
But, it did once again bring out the best in some people.
I changed the title of the post - hope you like it better.
WIAR wrote:In fairness & accuracy, it does not indict the entire company of 50,000+ employees, if you read the original text. The company can't possibly be composed solely of management personnel and still be as successful as they have been.
When someone says "I hate UP" how else can that be interpreted?
"I hate how one UP employee allegedly mistreated me" would be more accurate.
If you despise the UPRR so much why not send the exchanges to the Prez of the UPRR in Omaha NE instead of posting your rant here? I'm sure he will want to know that one of his employees lacks CS skills
WIAR wrote: Not that I have anything against the train crews or the other blue-collar folks the UP employs (they're great guys), but as far as their management goes, I'm now a proud member of the UP Dislikers Club.Not going to drop any names here - no need for that.I was over by one of the several UP yards in the Twin Cities area late this past Sat. afternoon (I was early for a dinner engagement and thought I'd snap a few photos from the public access road). I took a few shots and on the way back to the car I noticed a couple old UP property signs along with some other junk tossed in the ditch near the ROW, and close enough to the tracks for them to still legally be on UP property. It was obvious the junk had been discarded and from the looks of the signs they'd been there a while. Nevertheless I let them be - I'm no thief (I'm sure security cameras were watching even if I were).Instead I sent an e-mail to a UP manager for the area from their corporate web-site, explaining exactly where the signs were and I made an offer to buy them, not really expecting the offer would be accepted. I figured it'd cost nothing to ask - heck it's only junk, right? I framed the inquiry in friendly and courteous terms.The e-mail answer I got back this morning was terse, blunt and rude, and left me with the impression that just about every comment I've ever heard from people about UP management bein' a buncha jerks were dead on the money.
Not that I have anything against the train crews or the other blue-collar folks the UP employs (they're great guys), but as far as their management goes, I'm now a proud member of the UP Dislikers Club.
Not going to drop any names here - no need for that.
I was over by one of the several UP yards in the Twin Cities area late this past Sat. afternoon (I was early for a dinner engagement and thought I'd snap a few photos from the public access road). I took a few shots and on the way back to the car I noticed a couple old UP property signs along with some other junk tossed in the ditch near the ROW, and close enough to the tracks for them to still legally be on UP property. It was obvious the junk had been discarded and from the looks of the signs they'd been there a while. Nevertheless I let them be - I'm no thief (I'm sure security cameras were watching even if I were).
Instead I sent an e-mail to a UP manager for the area from their corporate web-site, explaining exactly where the signs were and I made an offer to buy them, not really expecting the offer would be accepted. I figured it'd cost nothing to ask - heck it's only junk, right? I framed the inquiry in friendly and courteous terms.
The e-mail answer I got back this morning was terse, blunt and rude, and left me with the impression that just about every comment I've ever heard from people about UP management bein' a buncha jerks were dead on the money.
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
it's not that i want CNW back. i only care about their locomotives because i saw those in my past. i only want 1 or CNW locomotives back. that's all. i don't need the whole company back. just 1 or 2 locomotives i can photograph and enjoy. i'm left with not a single picture because i was too young to take any at the time. and then my decade of isolation prevented me of saying goodbye to CNW. my last chance was 8575 and i failed. it was right there in altoona and i wasnt alerted. i could have seen it and gotten one last hurrah of CNW. but then Hinkle had to screw up and kill it off.
i can't get over any of this until i see a CNW locomotive and get its picture
WIAR,
To comprehend your original post it may have been helpful if you would have written the word-per-word response from UP without revealing the manager's name or the location of the items.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
zugmann wrote:And there is your recruiter for the Omahaha h8trz club.... perhaps he has an application handy?
fixed
Poppa_Zit wrote: WIAR wrote:In fairness & accuracy, it does not indict the entire company of 50,000+ employees, if you read the original text. The company can't possibly be composed solely of management personnel and still be as successful as they have been.When someone says "I hate UP" how else can that be interpreted?"I hate how one UP employee allegedly mistreated me" would be more accurate.
what PZ said...
Lord Atmo wrote: zugmann wrote:And there is your recruiter for the Omahaha h8trz club.... perhaps he has an application handy? fixed
Please don't ever change my posts like that. To me, a man's words are one of the few things he can call his own. So please don't alter mine.
It is a company - a business. they own CNW - so why wouldn't the slap their logo on those engines?
But they did do the CNW SD70ACE...more than other roads would do.
WIAR wrote:Guys, let's not get out-of-hand here, and even if it doesn't make any difference, I do apologize to the UP employees who are obviously on the forum (or at least some very ardent supporters). I should indeed have titled my rant in a more appropriate way. While I still am annoyed by the reply I received, it certainly didn't rise to the level of my complaining in a formal manner to UP management, president, etc. I was myself in a bad mood when I got the reply from a manager who may very well have been in a bad mood too, and possibly for better reasons. Right now, I don't bear the guy any grudge - I was blowin' off steam and I didn't word things the way I should have. I didn't want nor expect my gripe to ignite a forum fight and have things between participants get to the point of exchanging insults, and that goes for me too with the buncha jerks comment. Let's all simmer down.
Too little...too late, but I agree with the sentiment that everybody settle down and move on to another (more worthy) subject.
But the most important question of all:
did anyone wave?????
Oh crap....
I bet he would've gotten a wave had he put a penny on the tracks!
if UP wants to slap their logos on CNWs, they should have the decency to repaint them. nothing is more insulting than going to altoona and seeing that horrid 3042 leading a train. it's the biggest insult UP can throw at me. a CNW with a UP shield on the nose. that's just sick. the day it finally gets repainted will be so relieving for me
sure they did 1995, but i heard from a proviso employee that they dont like sending ACEs up the adams sub. so i'll never see it again anyway!
i'm sorry, but i cant sympathize for the older guys with the steam era in their past. every last museum has steam on display. green bay has a BIG BOY for crying out loud! there's plenty of places you can go to see steam in action. but nowhere to go if it's CNW you want
I'll defer this to someone else...
I have no response. None.
i know, but the track near you sees more action than mine. daytime trains for one thing. and the WC odd power (anything that isnt an SD45). i mean i'm glad i have SD40-2s instead of SD60Fatasses sure, but it'd be nice to see them when the sun's still out.
but that's not UP's fault.
i mean i've considered patched units to still be CNWs, but that didnt fly with rrpicturearchives.net at all. if i have to call them "UP", then they're dead to me. but 3042 is just insulting any way you look at it. same with 9087.
look, guys. i dont see the problem here. why cant you just let me hate on UP until i somehow get a chance to see a CNW locomotive again? sure they're all gone, but museums still take stuff. they might get an SD40-2 or something and repaint it. but until that day, i have no other way to cope with this tragic loss than to hate on those reponsible for it. omaha
Lord Atmo wrote: look, guys. i dont see the problem here. why cant you just let me hate on UP until i somehow get a chance to see a CNW locomotive again? sure they're all gone, but museums still take stuff. they might get an SD40-2 or something and repaint it. but until that day, i have no other way to cope with this tragic loss than to hate on those reponsible for it. omaha
It's simple, really. I don't know about anyone else, but I get tired about reading posts that make reference to "Omahaha," "Crash 9's," "SD60Fat***es," "Patching America" and every other stupid thing you reference on here.
If you really enjoy being a railfan, POST SOMETHING POSITIVE for once in your life. You're not going to see a standard cab EMD painted in CNW colors ever again, so if that's what railfanning is to you, I suggest taking up collecting stamps, cooking exotic cuisine, crocheting or some other hobby that isn't going to cause you grief every day of your existence.
I dread the thought of any UP thread ever coming up. No matter how intelligent the discussion is, it's bound to wind up in a deluge of anti-UP hatred that is simply amazing to me.
Because it's like you are taking the merger as a personal affront, like UP singled you out personally.
CopCarSS wrote: You're not going to see a standard cab EMD painted in CNW colors ever again
You're not going to see a standard cab EMD painted in CNW colors ever again
you can't prove that!
and stamp collecting is boring. i have several other hobbies FYI. and most of them are in big slumps too
zugmann wrote: But the most important question of all: did anyone wave?????
Do we always have to bring up my thread again and again? I think what Bergie told me was right, that post had a mind of its own and nobody was at fault.
I do credit UP for having the heritage schemes. At least they did something..... I would however prefer they had left a real CNW or WP engine in real paint schemes. The Rio Grande scheme looks totally different that the actual one.
Eola Jim is right. Too late. You wouldn't need to backpeddle like this if you had thought about the possible ramifications before hitting the "post" button to begin this thread.
There's a Alco S-1 in CNW paint at the museum in Green Bay for those of you still mourning the demise of that railroad 12 years ago. Illinois Railway Museum has a full double-deck commuter train with locomotives.
ALCO isnt EMD and 411 and the commuter cars arent a freight train with spartan cab units
why do people still not understand why some of us hate omaha? simply put, they ruined the past of people like me (assuming there are others). yeah i know it's a business. but do you think i care? and i'm sure UP doesnt care how much some people hate them. so there's no problem
oh and magicman, there still is one DRGW locomotive left. and under UP's protection. DRGW 5371, a mighty rio grande SD40T-2, carries out service in Utah now.
Lord Atmo wrote: ALCO isnt EMD, 411 and the commuter cars arent a freight train with spartan cab units, and 1518 is in an ancient scheme
Let's not forget the fact that none of them run through Altoona, either.
Poppa_Zit wrote: Eola Jim is right. Too late. You wouldn't need to backpeddle like this if you had thought about the possible ramifications before hitting the "post" button to begin this thread.
Whatever.
i understand you miss EL, WIAR, but i have heard that there's an EL SD45 preserved somewhere. i think Ohio. did you see those in your past at all?
Lord Atmo wrote: oh and magicman, there still is one DRGW locomotive left. and under UP's protection. DRGW 5371, a mighty rio grande SD40T-2, carries out service in Utah now.
I believe that SD40T was takin in to be patched, I read it in a railfan magazine. It was working in a town called Helper, Utah, right? If so, It was patched.
EDIT: Just checked on the internet, apperently 5371 will be saved. I credit UP with that too.
magicman710 wrote:I do credit UP for having the heritage schemes. At least they did something.....
Lord Atmo wrote:what's your point?
Shhhh...don't tell anyone, but it's all a big conspiracy, and they are all out to get you. There's a covert organization dedicated to the eradication of any and all CNW paint, especially on EMD spartan cab locomotives destined for Altoona...
Lord Atmo wrote: ALCO isnt EMD and 411 and the commuter cars arent a freight train with spartan cab unitswhy do people still not understand why some of us hate omaha? simply put, they ruined the past of people like me (assuming there are others). yeah i know it's a business. but do you think i care? and i'm sure UP doesnt care how much some people hate them. so there's no problem
Because there's no reason to hate Omaha, that's why people don't understand. I really don't know why you feel that Union Pacific "ruined the past of people like me". It's like you think the UP merged with CNW for the sole purpose of destroying your life. I guarantee you, they didn't.
You live in Wisconsin. The CNW heritage unit and the two unpatched units travel between Chicago and Council Bluffs, Iowa on a regular basis. Why not make a little trip down to Illinois or Iowa and see them some weekend? That seems like the reasonable solution to your problem. Of course, why be reasonable when you can also raise a never ending fuss on this forum about how terrible Union Pacific is?
Willy
CopCarSS wrote: Lord Atmo wrote: look, guys. i dont see the problem here. why cant you just let me hate on UP until i somehow get a chance to see a CNW locomotive again? sure they're all gone, but museums still take stuff. they might get an SD40-2 or something and repaint it. but until that day, i have no other way to cope with this tragic loss than to hate on those reponsible for it. omahaIt's simple, really. I don't know about anyone else, but I get tired about reading posts that make reference to "Omahaha," "Crash 9's," "SD60Fat***es," "Patching America" and every other stupid thing you reference on here. If you really enjoy being a railfan, POST SOMETHING POSITIVE for once in your life. You're not going to see a standard cab EMD painted in CNW colors ever again, so if that's what railfanning is to you, I suggest taking up collecting stamps, cooking exotic cuisine, crocheting or some other hobby that isn't going to cause you grief every day of your existence.I dread the thought of any UP thread ever coming up. No matter how intelligent the discussion is, it's bound to wind up in a deluge of anti-UP hatred that is simply amazing to me.
I have to agree. I don't know what UP ever did (and I am sure someone will tell me....please, let's not go there) to engender such a reaction. I spent quite a few years of my youth hanging out along the ICG...... Chicago Central took them over, and then IC bought it back, and now it's CN. Am I supposed to hate CN now? I mean after all, because of "them" the orange and white no longer chuffs along through Hillside, and part of my past has been removed.....Oh geez...will you get over yourself, Atmo? They didnt' ruin my past... you can't ruin a past, the past is the past, and it is what it is. You know what? I still have the great memories of summers as a young kid chasing trains. It was the best, I miss it, but then, time, and life, go on. So to blame the UP for "ruining your past" is about....well, I'll just leave it now. Like CopCarSS said....find something positive about railfanning, or find another hobby.
Hearing about how one railroad or the other is reviled around here, gets a little old.
Lord Atmo wrote: i understand you miss EL, WIAR, but i have heard that there's an EL SD45 preserved somewhere. i think Ohio. did you see those in your past at all?
Definitely - I distinctly remember the outline of the SD45s, especially one I saw on the lead running long-hood forward through Decatur. It wasn't often I saw EL low-nose hoods running that way on the lead. The preserved unit I think was in Missouri last I heard.
Willy2 wrote: Lord Atmo wrote: ALCO isnt EMD and 411 and the commuter cars arent a freight train with spartan cab unitswhy do people still not understand why some of us hate omaha? simply put, they ruined the past of people like me (assuming there are others). yeah i know it's a business. but do you think i care? and i'm sure UP doesnt care how much some people hate them. so there's no problemYou live in Wisconsin. The CNW heritage unit and the two unpatched units travel between Chicago and Council Bluffs, Iowa on a regular basis. Why not make a little trip down to Illinois or Iowa and see them some weekend? That seems like the reasonable solution to your problem. Of course, why be reasonable when you can also raise a never ending fuss on this forum about how terrible Union Pacific is?
i dont have gas money. and what good would seeing those do for my problem?
Lord Atmo wrote:ALCO isnt EMD and 411 and the commuter cars arent a freight train with spartan cab unitswhy do people still not understand why some of us hate omaha? simply put, they ruined the past of people like me (assuming there are others). yeah i know it's a business. but do you think i care? and i'm sure UP doesnt care how much some people hate them. so there's no problemoh and magicman, there still is one DRGW locomotive left. and under UP's protection. DRGW 5371, a mighty rio grande SD40T-2, carries out service in Utah now.
They didn't ruin your past. One corporate entity bought another one. Of ocurse they painted or logo'd the engines... that's what you do when you buy a company. Are there sprint fans that whined when embarq put the new logos on the trucks? (wait, there probably are!)
Lord Atmo wrote: Willy2 wrote: Lord Atmo wrote: ALCO isnt EMD and 411 and the commuter cars arent a freight train with spartan cab unitswhy do people still not understand why some of us hate omaha? simply put, they ruined the past of people like me (assuming there are others). yeah i know it's a business. but do you think i care? and i'm sure UP doesnt care how much some people hate them. so there's no problemYou live in Wisconsin. The CNW heritage unit and the two unpatched units travel between Chicago and Council Bluffs, Iowa on a regular basis. Why not make a little trip down to Illinois or Iowa and see them some weekend? That seems like the reasonable solution to your problem. Of course, why be reasonable when you can also raise a never ending fuss on this forum about how terrible Union Pacific is?i dont have gas money. and what good would seeing those do for my problem?
Well, I know that you have a very specific type of locomotive that you want to see, but I would think that the heritage unit and the unpatched units would count as something. Be glad there are two unpatched CNW engines left in mainline service, whether they meet your specifications or not.
there's another problem. aside from me never seeing crash 9s in my past or me hating any safety cabs. but remember how CNW bought those things. UP assumed 51% of CNW at the time and FORCED them to buy the crash 9s and AC44s. technically they arent real CNWs. i've seen 8646 in altoona 4 times. recently even. it does nothing for me. i dont choose to be picky about what type of unit i want to see, i have to go by what will make me feel like i'm 4 again from seeing it.
if anything, i'm worried that the duo is slowing down chances to get stuff donated. fans arent trying to see to it that an SD40-2 gets to IRM when they can fan the crash 9s.
i do enjoy 1995 very much though. i see it as UP apologizing to me
They aren't real CNW? If it has CNW reporting marks on it - then it is a real CNW.
Have to love those widecabs... A/C is great!
Lord Atmo:
Is there a specific EMD unit-type you're looking for? Maybe I can dig something up outta my archives, which, naturally, aren't digital images but I could borrow you the neg(s). I snapped a lot of CNW when I lived in Cedar Rapids for 6 years, most right after I heard about UP killing your dreams and I figured I'd better get 'em while I could out at Beverly Yard.
doesnt matter. UP forced CNW to buy them and they even paid for them. CNW simply ran them under their paint. but they're not CNWs by any means. not pure ones
safety cabs are only good for crews. and it's a good thing i want an SD40-2 as a static display at some museum. so that's not even a problem
i cant even accept CNW to be gone when UP wont let it die peacefully. sure they finally dropped royalties, but they're still using CNW power in their ugly paint. the only reason i can tolerate them is because i just pretend they were never CNW to begin with and it doesnt upset me. but i dont want to have to keep that up
It's true. Can't argue sense with the senseless.
Time to move on.
This whole "UP ruined my life" thing is sounding pretty childish.
As does the phrase "hating on," which is used by teenagers.
Time to grow up!
call it what you want. because of omaha, i can never railfan my favorite railroad.
but i AM a teenager. i'm 19!
Yikes!
I thought the waving thread was idiotic, but this must be the evil twin. UP is a great stock to own, in part because they are mighty good at railroading. By most standards that equates to a successful railroad. I think UP is great, and even more so because they did those heritage units.
P.S. UP crews wave all the time! One finger or five it still counts!
Lord Atmo wrote: call it what you want. because of omaha, i can never railfan my favorite railroad.but i AM a teenager. i'm 19!
WIAR wrote: Lord Atmo:Is there a specific EMD unit-type you're looking for? Maybe I can dig something up outta my archives, which, naturally, aren't digital images but I could borrow you the neg(s). I snapped a lot of CNW when I lived in Cedar Rapids for 6 years, most right after I heard about UP killing your dreams and I figured I'd better get 'em while I could out at Beverly Yard.
SD40-2, SD50, and SD60
Lord Atmo wrote: ... simply put, they ruined the past of people like me (assuming there are others). yeah i know it's a business. but do you think i care? ...
... simply put, they ruined the past of people like me (assuming there are others). yeah i know it's a business. but do you think i care? ...
Ruined, you say! Wow. Life goes on for most of us.
I know you don't. The problem for me is that your rationale, if it can be so characterized, offends my sensibilities. The merger, with all the ostensible benefits to both corporations, ought not to have been permitted because you don't like the paint jobs on what is left? I hope you have a better argument than that tucked away someplace.
Lord Atmo wrote:like i said. it's not UP i hate, it's omaha. THEY'RE the ones who made UP do what they did
The Union Pacific is just a puppet of the City of Omaha?
Lord Atmo wrote:well what did you expect?
But, hey, someday, you'll grow up and stop being so personally affected by a business merger whose only effect on you is that trains painted in a certain color scheme are no longer operated.
CopCarSS wrote: Lord Atmo wrote:like i said. it's not UP i hate, it's omaha. THEY'RE the ones who made UP do what they didThe Union Pacific is just a puppet of the City of Omaha?
not the city, i refer to the UP corp's HQ in omaha. which is also referred to as omaha
selector wrote:Ruined, you say! Wow. Life goes on for most of us. I know you don't. The problem for me is that your rationale, if it can be so characterized, offends my sensibilities. The merger, with all the ostensible benefits to both corporations, ought not to have been permitted because you don't like the paint jobs on what is left? I hope you have a better argument than that tucked away someplace.
not ruined for those who took pictures
the merger was fine. but they didnt need to kill off all of CNW's locomotives. you dont see CN having problems with WC, GTW, DMIR, and IC power getting lost all the time. UP could've afforded to keep an SD40-2 around. heck, they seem to have no problems keeping those GE scrap heaps running
Lord Atmo wrote:not the city, i refer to the UP corp's HQ in omaha. which is also referred to as omaha
I realize that. Of course, I also realize that Corporate Management is also inseperably tied to Corporate Identity. So, despite your protestations otherwise, it is impossible to hate Union Pacific management in Omaha without hating at least a part of the entity that is the Union Pacific. Of course, we would have never guessed that you disliked any part of the UP......
Lord Atmo wrote:well i'll stop hating them when they stop running ex-CNWs. because then i can just forget all about CNW hopefully and just enjoy myself with the GEVOs, ACEs, SD70Ms, and AC44s.
Seriously...have you looked into joining the CNW Historical Society like I suggested every time you start on one of your Anti-UP tirades. If the CNW means that much to you, and you are that desperate to relive the halcyon days of your youth, a historical society is probably the closest you will ever get. Here's the link. Yearly dues are $28. If you can't afford that, I'll pay for your first year if you promise to quit whining about the UP and your lost childhood.
Okay, I'm done.
Everyone has tried talking sense here....but....well, it does not appear to be having an effect on a certain person. Bowing out before it gets more preposterous.
Zug said it best.....
zugmann wrote: It's true. Can't argue sense with the senseless. Time to move on.
i looked into it. one of my friends is a member of the HS. and he knows me very well and honestly said it wasnt gonna be something i would be into. i paged through a few NWL issues. didnt do it for me. though the 8575 article made me very sad.
$30.00 is steep for me anyway. my money is where my other hobbies come into play. i'm a collector of sorts. but of a few toylines. so i cant shell out that money
if the CNWHS was actually going to try and restore an SD40-2 or something, i'd be interested. but the CNWHS focuses on CNW as the company it was. and i only care about CNW locomotives. and only ones of the types i saw in my past. in a sense, i care only about my past moreso than CNW
Lord Atmo wrote: $30.00 is steep for me anyway. my money is where my other hobbies come into play. i'm a collector of sorts. but of a few toylines. so i cant shell out that money if the CNWHS was actually going to try and restore an SD40-2 or something, i'd be interested. but the CNWHS focuses on CNW as the company it was. and i only care about CNW locomotives. and only ones of the types i saw in my past. in a sense, i care only about my past moreso than CNW
I wasn't joking when I said I'd pay for you. It appears you'd rather keep whining, though.
actually i need to give this one some thought......
can i at least keep my avatar? that one's not supposed to be against UP, just why i dislike SD60Ms
i need to fan the ALS. oh lord do i never need to fan the ALS...
There is a man in Portland, Oregon who dreamed of seeing a Nickel Plate PA1 run again... something he remembered from his younger days.
For decades he held on to that dream.
Today, he is rebuilding a PA1 unit (actually a slightly modified PA4 rebuild, but who can tell?). The unit is being painted in full Nickel Plate colors.
My point?
You are 19. Set yourself a goal of saving and reviving a CNW SD40-2 by the time you are, say, 35? Too long? Take a closer age.
Doesn't matter if you don't know how you are going to do it yet, just know you are going to do it. Start looking into it and making plans.
I know, I'm sounding like a guidance counselor, but I honestly believe you can do it if you just decide right now that you are going to do it.
Lord Atmo wrote: WIAR wrote: Lord Atmo:Is there a specific EMD unit-type you're looking for? Maybe I can dig something up outta my archives, which, naturally, aren't digital images but I could borrow you the neg(s). I snapped a lot of CNW when I lived in Cedar Rapids for 6 years, most right after I heard about UP killing your dreams and I figured I'd better get 'em while I could out at Beverly Yard. SD40-2, SD50, and SD60
Oh I definitely have the -2's, and possibly some of the SD50s and SD60s, but certainly the SD40-2's. I can go through them and I'll e-mail you to see about lending them out. When Conrail grudgingly accepted the EL into their deal at the last minute and then ripped-up the "Friendly Service Route", I hated Conrail's guts to no end. It wasn't until after Conrail managed to divest itself of some of the old cronies and good old boy middle management who ran the PC into the toilet (which wasn't hard to do since the PC was half in the toilet to begin with when the PRR & NYC merged) that they managed to make a success out of the operation, but the ill-feelings still lingered a while.
Then, after all that, I decided to resurrect the EL. The Wisconsin & Iowa was the knight in shining armour that bought the EL from the jaws of Conrail for its wide ROWs and comparative lack of major urban areas to traverse between Port Jervis and Chicago (perfect for high-speed stackers and TOFC after we rehabilitated the route). The WIAR also merged-in the CGW to gain direct access to Chicago, and for the Des Moines - Oelwein - St. Paul line. At this moment two EL GP35s are idling in the WIAR East Iron Mountain Yard (yes we're in Michigan too), ready for the march to Dubuque. We never decided to drop the EL or CGW logos or liveries - the heritage of those employees that worked those lines are preserved through the colors and the insignias. The WIAR can afford the paint. Because after all, it's not the corporate emblem that carries the freight and keeps the customers happy - it's the people (even the management sometimes) that make it work.
oh i've been trying to devise a little plan to get one donated. i know who all to email about it and everything and i'm waiting for the right time to step forward and do this.
but for now, i have ALS to keep me happy. something i overlooked in my rantings. and i need to go see them some day. i dont know where they are though. just somewhere in chicago
Lord Atmo wrote: actually i need to give this one some thought......can i at least keep my avatar? that one's not supposed to be against UP, just why i dislike SD60Ms
I suggest that you do join the C&NW Historical Society. I was once a member, and I buy their magazine often. My interest focused on the M&StL, and they cover that line as much as they can. Maybe change your avatar to C&NW.
But I think there is no point in lamenting what has been lost in the world of railroading. The list is endless. It ought to be consoling that such a massive body of books, documents, illustrations, diagrams, photographs, and hardware (including locomotives and rolling stock) survive and are preserved to tell the story of what the railroad industry has lost. So at least what is lost is not easily forgotten.
And just because it is gone does not mean that it cannot live on in one's focus of interest. After all is said and done, the whole experience is in only in the mind. Some people model railroads that disappeared decades ago. Other people make paintings. These attempts to recreate a lost era are especially facilitated by the massive body of documentation that fortunately survives.
My interest began in the then-present era of 1960. I could sense the age of steam, but it was gone, and I deeply regretted being born too late. Then I was pulled back into the 1930-1950 era and lived it vicariously through books, photographs, and other forms of study. And then I was pulled way back into the 1880-1900 era, which I found to be impossibly rich. I looked at old newspapers on microfilm, bought historical books, researched company records, and ran ads in small town newspapers offering to buy old photographs. I found that lost world and made it a part of me.
TimChgo9 wrote: Okay, I'm done. Everyone has tried talking sense here....but....well, it does not appear to be having an effect on a certain person. Bowing out before it gets more preposterous. Zug said it best..... zugmann wrote: It's true. Can't argue sense with the senseless. Time to move on.
Yes. Me, too. From now on I'll try to carry on discussions only with railfans who are not living with their parents.
You know it's a good thing red is in UP's paint scheme. That way when any of you UP loyalists and "company men" stick a pin in your finger you can bleed the corporate colors. Yes, the CNW is gone and nobody can restore it, but to go as far the other way in this debate about defending UP's honor when it's insulted borders on disturbing. Like any company, Union Pacific is a company. It's not your family no matter how you slice it. You can work for it, you can like working for it, you can even prefer to work there rather than anywhere else and if so then more power to you, but in the end you are a resource to the corporation, and they are your employer - nothing else. Company loyalists have always been a bit worrisome to me - they're the ones that make others watch their backs. Sooner or later, the day may come when that beloved corporation of your's tells you they don't want you as a member of the "family" anymore - you've outlived your usefulness. Would you tell your dad that because he's 93 and needs help to/from the toilet that because he's no longer useful to you, he's no longer your dad? No, but any employer could. And yes - that's happened to me once in my 23 years as a software engineer and there was no union there to back up me or the other 100+ employees who got whacked at the same time (though the severance was a blessing).
This is it for me on this thread.
I have never understood this of people on this forum.... I here all the time on here about "maturity" and "growing up" on here. People on here love to point out the kids and teens of these forums, for whatever reason I dont know. What I think is this: People saying "This is my last post on this thread" or "Im dont with this thread". You know what? To me, saying that is very immature and childish. If you want to quit, just forget it and dont post anymore, dont announce it. And, if you create a thread, if you dont like it, just dont post. I see hundreds of negative posts on all these forums, its like youtube. If you dont have anything better to say, dont say it at all. I see so many negative posts on here, just dont post them! If you dont like the thread, ignore it and move on, nobody probably wants to here what you have to say.
My I'm not trying to make enemies here, Im just trying to tell people what a kid thinks of some of the stuff they do, which is alot more immature than what I see many kids here do.
Someone needs a wave....
(don't get mad.. just a joke!)
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
zugmann wrote: Someone needs a wave.... (don't get mad.. just a joke!)
I beleive your a engineer.... Will you give me a wave next time I wave at you while I'm video taping your train?
Ahhh, a conductor, thats a boring job isnt it?
Zugmann: "Wah wah, I dont get to blow the horn, wah wah!!!"
Yeah.. it's a tough job. But someone has to do it! Blowing the horn kind of loses its appeal after the 3,000th grade xing.
Ok everybody...Group wave time...
23 17 46 11
edbenton wrote:Atmo called grow the HECK UP. You remind me of a kid that has had EVERYTHING handed to him on a SLIVER PLATTER THEN ALL OF SUDDEN IS THROWN TO THE REAL WORLD AND GETS A WAKE UP CALL when they find out what the real world is like. Try living my life never knowing when I will end up on the floor with a seizure. I had to give up almost everything I love in order to do this and lost everything I had twice now yet I keep coming back for more. The CNW was a small RR and was going to be bought out sooner or later by someone GET OVER IT.
this issue was done and finished before your post. you saw that, didnt you? and i hardly would describe seeing a railroad at work "getting stuff on a silver platter". it's more like.....watching trains. look i made a promise i wasnt gonna whine anymore. and i have to keep that. so now that you know i'm done, everyone please stop attacking me
Actually for a while there between 1920-1959 the UNION PACIFIC and the CHICAGO & NORTH WESTERN were equal partners. C&NW took over railroads like Chicago, Minneapolis & Omaha, Chicago Great Western, and Minneapolis and St. Louis. The only reason CNW was "small" in the 1990's was the large amount of abandoned tracks due to competition from short haul trucking. You might want to check the back and forth history of the two railroads.
By the Way, the best way to good health is emotional support from relatives, but that is not likely in these days.
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
Lord Atmo wrote: ALCO isnt EMD and 411 and the commuter cars arent a freight train with spartan cab units
I am not sure why I am posting this, as it seems like it will fall on deaf ears, but the IRM also has a CNW GP7 in CNW paint, Its both an EMD and a freight unit.
First of all. CN&W has 2 engines left, I would take that anyday. I would take that in a second, one is better than zero(example CSX 4617). You can't blame UP for everything, thats just like blaming Hank Aaron for the Braves losing last week against Houston, and he hasn't played for 25-30 years. UP has a ex SP switcher that I saw 8 years ago that is still the same way. Just happens that hasn't seen a paint shop in a long while. Just the way it is. I was not yet born when Southern and Seaboard roamed around here. I am just glad to see 4610 and 4617 around the system or since Wick got the F-units, I would like to see 4270 here again(April 2008). Can't have everything in life. If we did, oh boy.
Just had to post this an give out my .
Kevin
i'm sorry...i really dont care at all about 8646 or 8701. you like them? great. i'm happy for you. but they dont mean much to me.
Midnight Railroader wrote: Lord Atmo wrote: call it what you want. because of omaha, i can never railfan my favorite railroad.but i AM a teenager. i'm 19!No surprise there.
That hurts!
No I am not making you to like them. I don't know how you got that, but I am just saying that I would be glad that my favorite company has 2 engines left instead of none.
Lord Atmo,
You seem to have toned down your anti-UP rhetoric in response to the replies posted by others here. That's good.
The first 150 years of railroading were characterized by the big fish swallowing the little fishes. In the natural world that would be described as "survival of the fittest". Recently the trend has been reversed and there is now a proliferation of shortlines with their added diversity.
Where I live we once had the MoPac (nee T&P), the EssPee, the Cotton Belt and the IC. All now a part of either the UP or the KCS. Do I miss them? - yes and no. Yes because of their lost diversity and heritage. No because the two remaining roads still run all of the former lines and the number of trains is greater than ever before. The old IC line was in a sorry state of repair and would probably have been abandoned by now if the KCS hadn't acquired it and remade it into what today is known as the "Meridian Speedway". Regretably we can't turn back the clock and live in the past. If only we could I'd go back to the days of steam when I was a youngster without a worry in the world. My only advice to you is live in the present and enjoy the sometimes seemingly questionable progress that has been made in the railroad industry.
Hate the UP? - how can you hate the only railroad that maintains an active steam program. Thanks to them I've seen both the 844 Northern and the 3985 Challenger in mainline operation. I can't do anything but praise the UP for affording me that opportunity.
Best wishes for a lifetime of railfanning.
Mark
and some rail fans wonder why they dont get "respect" from railroaders... i am shaking my head and rolling my eyes after managing to sit and read all of this... and what i took away from this is...there goes 15 mins of my life i will never get back... but i have to add this....get over it..and get a life...
csx engineer
Poppa_Zit wrote: TimChgo9 wrote: Okay, I'm done. Everyone has tried talking sense here....but....well, it does not appear to be having an effect on a certain person. Bowing out before it gets more preposterous. Zug said it best..... zugmann wrote: It's true. Can't argue sense with the senseless. Time to move on. Yes. Me, too. From now on I'll try to carry on discussions only with railfans who are not living with their parents.
I resent that.
coborn35 wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: TimChgo9 wrote: Okay, I'm done. Everyone has tried talking sense here....but....well, it does not appear to be having an effect on a certain person. Bowing out before it gets more preposterous. Zug said it best..... zugmann wrote: It's true. Can't argue sense with the senseless. Time to move on. Yes. Me, too. From now on I'll try to carry on discussions only with railfans who are not living with their parents. I resent that.
Poppa_Zit wrote: Yes. Me, too. From now on I'll try to carry on discussions only with railfans who are not living with their parents.
See, now this is where I start to get worried. It's additudes like this that come out of discussions like the one that's been going on here, and often ruins it for the rest of us. I'll admit, I'm a teenager too, just turned 16 about a month ago. But some of us teen railfans actually try and act like the adults we are to become instead of like the children we once were. And it's when one or two of our fellow teenagers get into a thread like this, I'm always afraid that even a couple of people reading this will write teenage railfans off entirely. I'm guessing there was a little bit of sarcasm written into that post Poppa Zit, but perhaps there are others out there reading this who have the same sentiment without the sarcasm. And those are the people I hope will get something out of what I'm saying here. I know quite a few other teenagers that act with a good level of maturity and try and learn from those around them; but don't let your opinion of teenage railfans as a whole be ruined by one person.
And Max (Lord Atmo Max, not Coborn), as far as I'm concerned, you really need to learn to deal with something that we all face every day and will for the rest of our life. It's called change. Not everything is going to stay exactly like you want it. Sure, I'd love to have seen the CNW myself. I'd love to have seen the Green Bay and Western with their burbling ALCos. I'd have loved to have seen a trio of WC SD45s leading a train over Byron hill with two more pushing on the rear, but they were sold to the CN before I even realized there were tracks in places other than a mile from my house. Sure, sometimes I get a little bit sad that I don't have pictures of these things and that I was born too late to see them, but I've learned to deal with it. I don't go around compaining the UP or WC or CN (respectively) ruined my life and that I'll never get to railfan what I want. Instead, I've decided that I'm here now for a reason, so I take pictures of things that are here and now. Even though I never saw them in person, I enjoy seeing photos of the things I mentioned above. So I figure if I take pictures of the new CP ES44ACs and the BNSF SD70ACes to what would appear to be the end of the SD40 era on class ones and everything in between, someday I'll be able to share those photos with a teenager who wished he would have been born a little earlier. It's called learning to act with a little bit of maturity and learning to deal with change. I'm told by those who have, um, "gained more wisdom through experience" than myself that change will come often as I go through life, so I figure I better start learning how to dealing with it now. And I'd say it would be a good thing if you would do the same. I think all of us here on the forums would appreciate it.
Noah
Hi Noah,
You have cut right to the core of the matter and given Lord Atmo what is probably the best advice of any of the prior replies. Hopefully he will heed your advice coming as it does from one teenager to another instead of from some of us old heads. You have wisdom far beyond your years and I congratulate you on expressing it so well.
Best wishes-
Noah Hofrichter wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: Yes. Me, too. From now on I'll try to carry on discussions only with railfans who are not living with their parents. See, now this is where I start to get worried. It's additudes like this that come out of discussions like the one that's been going on here, and often ruins it for the rest of us. I'll admit, I'm a teenager too, just turned 16 about a month ago. But some of us teen railfans actually try and act like the adults we are to become instead of like the children we once were. And it's when one or two of our fellow teenagers get into a thread like this, I'm always afraid that even a couple of people reading this will write teenage railfans off entirely. I'm guessing there was a little bit of sarcasm written into that post Poppa Zit, but perhaps there are others out there reading this who have the same sentiment without the sarcasm. And those are the people I hope will get something out of what I'm saying here. I know quite a few other teenagers that act with a good level of maturity and try and learn from those around them; but don't let your opinion of teenage railfans as a whole be ruined by one person.And Max (Lord Atmo Max, not Coborn), as far as I'm concerned, you really need to learn to deal with something that we all face every day and will for the rest of our life. It's called change. Not everything is going to stay exactly like you want it. Sure, I'd love to have seen the CNW myself. I'd love to have seen the Green Bay and Western with their burbling ALCos. I'd have loved to have seen a trio of WC SD45s leading a train over Byron hill with two more pushing on the rear, but they were sold to the CN before I even realized there were tracks in places other than a mile from my house. Sure, sometimes I get a little bit sad that I don't have pictures of these things and that I was born too late to see them, but I've learned to deal with it. I don't go around compaining the UP or WC or CN (respectively) ruined my life and that I'll never get to railfan what I want. Instead, I've decided that I'm here now for a reason, so I take pictures of things that are here and now. Even though I never saw them in person, I enjoy seeing photos of the things I mentioned above. So I figure if I take pictures of the new CP ES44ACs and the BNSF SD70ACes to what would appear to be the end of the SD40 era on class ones and everything in between, someday I'll be able to share those photos with a teenager who wished he would have been born a little earlier. It's called learning to act with a little bit of maturity and learning to deal with change. I'm told by those who have, um, "gained more wisdom through experience" than myself that change will come often as I go through life, so I figure I better start learning how to dealing with it now. And I'd say it would be a good thing if you would do the same. I think all of us here on the forums would appreciate it.Noah
And sometimes it takes the railfan living at home with his parents to remind us what railfanning is really about. To share your memories with the next generation is the best reward any of us can ask. Thank you Noah for the best response on the thread.
Noah Hofrichter wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: Yes. Me, too. From now on I'll try to carry on discussions only with railfans who are not living with their parents. I'm guessing there was a little bit of sarcasm written into that post Poppa Zit, but perhaps there are others out there reading this who have the same sentiment without the sarcasm.
I'm guessing there was a little bit of sarcasm written into that post Poppa Zit, but perhaps there are others out there reading this who have the same sentiment without the sarcasm.
That's what the laughy-thing means, Noah. At least you got it.
Those hoping seeking who might be to be offended will interpret it any way they want.
Of course, everyone new that comes to these forums starts with a clean slate. And that includes people of all ages. But, over time, some people do "mark" themselves through repeated foolish behavior and childish attitudes. It is hard to have patience with those people and take them seriously.
Age makes no difference. And it doesn't require "acting like an adult", either. It all has to do with how a person carries himself or herself (decorum -- some adults act like children, and many teenagers here could be an example for them.)
Your response to the CNW-deprived youngster was dead on. Best he hear it from one of his peers, and not one of us.
nanaimo73 wrote:Well said, Noah.
I have to agree with Dale...
Noah has pretty well laid it out...'How the hog ate the turnip!'
And would that it is the last word on the issue.
Thanks, everyone, I'll move on.
Noah, nice writing and thinking.
Noah, very articulate, and very well put.....Great post.. I rather enjoyed reading it.
Well ,Noah, congrats on being one of the few who offered some good advice. Im just a wee lad too, 15 years young.
Alec
i'm afraid i haven't been completely honest around here. while everything i whined about was how i felt about it, i make it seem like Altoona is nothing great. but i'm wrong. and my railfanning life is NOT terrible. i've just been annoyed with the manifest power these days. but the train i catch the most, the roadrailer, has NS power on it almost always now. once an NS SD60 even led. and that was a great night for me. i admit i even jumped around like an idiot because of how excited i was (before the crews could see me. i was behind a shed. eheheheh). the manifest power is sometimes good. especially when that GEVO showed up. but often it's SD40-2s. the problem there is they're all ex-CNW. and it just makes me so sad to see those CNWs running in UP paint. and i'm not trying to whine here or anything. i'm just being honest. and i hope this post doesnt come off as angry. all i get up here is ex-CNW power. and i don't know how to cope with that. it makes me so sad. i know some have told me to like it because "at least they're still being used and run", but i see it more as. well if you had a pet dog you loved and had fun with. then the dog got old and died, wouldnt you want the dog buried peacefully instead of stuffed and kept like furniture?
when other power like SD70Ms or AC44CWCTEs come through, i love it and take their pictures. but then i showthose pictures off and i get grief for being excited about "the new stuff". but the older stuff in my area just makes me sad.
again, i'm not trying to whine or argue here. i'm honestly seeking advice to what i should do. how can i enjoy the newer power without getting grief for it? because that's where i find fun in this hobby. and how can i move on with all of these ex-CNWs up here? i'll be honest. that this is the problem with how i was unable when i asked for help a while back.
Lord Atmo wrote: i'm afraid i haven't been completely honest around here. while everything i whined about was how i felt about it, i make it seem like Altoona is nothing great. but i'm wrong. and my railfanning life is NOT terrible. i've just been annoyed with the manifest power these days. but the train i catch the most, the roadrailer, has NS power on it almost always now. once an NS SD60 even led. and that was a great night for me. i admit i even jumped around like an idiot because of how excited i was (before the crews could see me. i was behind a shed. eheheheh). the manifest power is sometimes good. especially when that GEVO showed up. but often it's SD40-2s. the problem there is they're all ex-CNW. and it just makes me so sad to see those CNWs running in UP paint. and i'm not trying to whine here or anything. i'm just being honest. and i hope this post doesnt come off as angry. all i get up here is ex-CNW power. and i don't know how to cope with that. it makes me so sad. i know some have told me to like it because "at least they're still being used and run", but i see it more as. well if you had a pet dog you loved and had fun with. then the dog got old and died, wouldnt you want the dog buried peacefully instead of stuffed and kept like furniture? when other power like SD70Ms or AC44CWCTEs come through, i love it and take their pictures. but then i showthose pictures off and i get grief for being excited about "the new stuff". but the older stuff in my area just makes me sad.again, i'm not trying to whine or argue here. i'm honestly seeking advice to what i should do. how can i enjoy the newer power without getting grief for it? because that's where i find fun in this hobby. and how can i move on with all of these ex-CNWs up here? i'll be honest. that this is the problem with how i was unable when i asked for help a while back.
Solution? Easy. This is a hobby, which is supposed to be fun. Do what pleases you -- enjoy the newer power. What anyone else thinks does not count for anything.
I think you're taking it much too seriously for it to be fun for you anymore. No one can tell you how to "move on", so help in that direction won't be forthcoming. Be glad you're in a place where there are trains to watch. There are a lot of places in America where the tracks see only one or two trains a week -- plus a lot of places without tracks. What if you lived in The Land of No Railroads -- southwest Wisconsin? Then what would you do for a hobby?
Sometimes, when we whine about what we don't have, we're forgetting to be grateful for what we do have.
but often it's SD40-2s. the problem there is they're all ex-CNW. and it just makes me so sad to see those CNWs running in UP paint. and i'm not trying to whine here or anything. i'm just being honest. and i hope this post doesnt come off as angry. all i get up here is ex-CNW power. and i don't know how to cope with that. it makes me so sad. i know some have told me to like it because "at least they're still being used and run", but i see it more as. well if you had a pet dog you loved and had fun with. then the dog got old and died, wouldnt you want the dog buried peacefully instead of stuffed and kept like furniture?
You cope with it by enjoying it because these "dogs" haven't "died" yet. Are you suggesting that the UP retire all of the old CNW engines just because you don't like seeing them in UP paint- or to run with your silly dog analogy "put them to sleep and bury them"?
The reason you see so many ex-CNW units is simple- it's ex-CNW territory!!! The ex-CNW SD40-2s are kept around in the Chicago/Wisconsin area because they are equipped with the old CNW cab signals- for the most part they stay close to Proviso and the midwest, although they do wander beyond that occasionally. I for one enjoy seeing the remaining ex-CNW SD40-2s on home rails still out running- that's more than I can say for the SD50s and SD60s which were returned to their lessor, and the SD45s, GP30s, and GP35s which were retired.
I for one hope that the remaining ex-CNW units have a nice long life running on former CNW lines, because with all the new power the UP has been getting and the recent marshalling up of a lot of UP's other SD40-2s I begin to wonder if these units are going to be around much longer. So my advice is- enjoy it, photograph every one you see and remember- THIS IS A HOBBY.
nordique72 wrote: I for one hope that the remaining ex-CNW units have a nice long life running on former CNW lines, because with all the new power the UP has been getting and the recent marshalling up of a lot of UP's other SD40-2s I begin to wonder if these units are going to be around much longer. So my advice is- enjoy it, photograph every one you see and remember- THIS IS A HOBBY.
And in that vein I would like to report that I saw two patched ex-UP SD 40-2's (one had that CNW bell on the nose, I think) heading to Horicon on WISOR's Chicago to Horicon daily. I think that SD 40-2 was such a good loco that the UP will likely sell most of them to other railroads, rather than retire them. WISOR is running all SD 40-2 sets on those Chicago trains, and it is a nice thing to see if you've got a little nostalgia running in the veins. Reminds me of the Milwaukee in Hartland, WI back when I was a kid. The only difference is that the WISOR keeps their locos looking nice and neat, while the Milwaukee's you could see through if they passed the sun in the wrong light.
I have also noticed some really beat up SD 40-2 CNW's in Butler yard in Milwaukee. They must be working the loco pool between Butler and the Twin Cities.
nordique72 wrote:but often it's SD40-2s. the problem there is they're all ex-CNW. and it just makes me so sad to see those CNWs running in UP paint. and i'm not trying to whine here or anything. i'm just being honest. and i hope this post doesnt come off as angry. all i get up here is ex-CNW power. and i don't know how to cope with that. it makes me so sad. i know some have told me to like it because "at least they're still being used and run", but i see it more as. well if you had a pet dog you loved and had fun with. then the dog got old and died, wouldnt you want the dog buried peacefully instead of stuffed and kept like furniture?You cope with it by enjoying it because these "dogs" haven't "died" yet. Are you suggesting that the UP retire all of the old CNW engines just because you don't like seeing them in UP paint- or to run with your silly dog analogy "put them to sleep and bury them"? The reason you see so many ex-CNW units is simple- it's ex-CNW territory!!! The ex-CNW SD40-2s are kept around in the Chicago/Wisconsin area because they are equipped with the old CNW cab signals- for the most part they stay close to Proviso and the midwest, although they do wander beyond that occasionally. I for one enjoy seeing the remaining ex-CNW SD40-2s on home rails still out running- that's more than I can say for the SD50s and SD60s which were returned to their lessor, and the SD45s, GP30s, and GP35s which were retired.I for one hope that the remaining ex-CNW units have a nice long life running on former CNW lines, because with all the new power the UP has been getting and the recent marshalling up of a lot of UP's other SD40-2s I begin to wonder if these units are going to be around much longer. So my advice is- enjoy it, photograph every one you see and remember- THIS IS A HOBBY.
i tried that. it didnt work. our idea on what makes a locomotive "dead" may be different. i see it as when it loses its CNW paint, it dies. but that's just me. i think the best thing i can do is pretend they never were CNWs at all. then it doesnt upset me to see them. and as for 3042 which comes here all the time, well i can trace it and simply not go to altoona if it's there.
those ex-CNWs might be gone soon? well if so, then my problem will be gone and i can move on all the more easily.
either way, i'll find some way to get past this and have fun again
Lord Atmo, would you like to see this locomotive if it was still around ? If not, a simple "not really" will suffice.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cnw/cnw811ary.jpg
Ya, Im not sure what Atmo's obsession with SD40-2s are. They were one of the many cool spartan cabs on the CNW. The GP30s(kinda),GP35s,GP38-2s,GP40s,GP50s,SD18s,SD40s,SD45,SD38-2s and so on. I'd much rather preserve an SD40 or a GP40 than an SD40-2.
well see, i thought and discussed what to preserve and run excursions on. and the SD40-2 has the least problems. but IRM would probably be able to afford the costs of running it. heck, they can afford to run that BN U30C after all. but the problems i've found with the others are:
GP30- well to be honest, i'm just not into GP30s. they look rather weird to me. and i was hoping for something a tad more modernGP35- i was not aware any ex-CNW ones were still around. i would not have a problem with seeing one be preservedGP40- after connie, NYC, and PC ran them to death, they were less than useful on the CNW. it could only give IRM a bigger headache. plus wouldnt you rather see a GP40 in NYC paint?GP50/SD50- i've heard these had a lot of problems. mainly overworking the 645s in them. so they wouldnt be effective to run at IRMSD60- same as the SD50, but just less problematic. i've heard the CNW ones had the most problems out of all the SD60s because they were the first ever made. then SOO line got an improved batch when they placed their order (speaking of SD60s, i wonder if i'll ever see UP 2201 again... that was an awesome day)SD45- all of the ones without db's were sold and modified into SD40-3s. several of them are still running in SP paint. i'd actually enjoy seeing those. and the other ones would be better off in the colors of the roads they were on before CNW. while there are several SD45s i'd rather see at museums, i know it's only right that we get one in SLSF and ATSF colors before we see a CNW or even WC SD45 SD38-2- those don't represent CNW very well. and i also dont see UP giving them up any time soon. as they have proven very useful in the massive yard that is Proviso.
now as for the SD40s, i would not be opposed to preserving one or a GP35. as long as they'd be in the OY scheme and not the oelwein scheme or the older streamliner scheme like 1518 is. and there's 4160 still fading away in janesville. actually there are GP7s and GP9s all over the place
but this will take lots of planning and i haven't yet figured everything out. i intend to wait about 20 years or so because it wont be long before UP starts getting rid of the SD40-2s. and then the leasers, regionals, shortlines, etc will probably start running them because of how useful they have been proven to be.
i am also considering looking into GP38-2s or GP15-1s. probably the latter if any. UP has done quite a bit to tyhe GP38-2s. while their modifications dont bother me (paint aside), i know several other CNW fans who dislike it and wouldnt be thrilled to see a GP38-2 in CNW paint with A/C and db's. plus we've got 2 great ALS GP38-2s that look CNW enough to make me happy
Lord Atmo wrote: GP35- i was not aware any ex-CNW ones were still around. i would not have a problem with seeing one be preserved
GP35- i was not aware any ex-CNW ones were still around. i would not have a problem with seeing one be preserved
Are DMVW still operating their 324, 325 and 326, which were CNW 800s ?
Lord Atmo wrote:the merger was fine. but they didnt need to kill off all of CNW's locomotives. you dont see CN having problems with WC, GTW, DMIR, and IC power getting lost all the time. UP could've afforded to keep an SD40-2 around. heck, they seem to have no problems keeping those GE scrap heaps running
The only reason CN keeps that old junk around is because they are too cheap to spend money on new power. They are finally buying new power these past few years because the SD40(-2)'s are literally falling apart. Our SD40-2's are junk and I hope they scrap every last one of them once the new SD70M-2's and ES44DC's arrive. BTW, the only CN SD40-2's(not counting the GTW, IC, DMIR, WC and BCOL units) left have the safety cabs, all of CN's spartan cab SD40's have been retired.
nanaimo73 wrote: Lord Atmo wrote: GP35- i was not aware any ex-CNW ones were still around. i would not have a problem with seeing one be preserved Are DMVW still operating their 324, 325 and 326, which were CNW 800s ?
that is a good question. i wasnt aware of those units at all. i couldnt find any pictures of them on rrpicturearchives. so i dont know their status i'm afraid
Tyler, actually there is still a handful of spartan cab CN SD40-2s left. The 5378 was down here recently.(as in a 2 or 3 weeks).
Yup, the DMVW still has them (in CNW paint too).
Lord Atmo wrote: But often it's SD40-2s. the problem there is they're all ex-CNW. and it just makes me so sad to see those CNWs running in UP paint. I'm not trying to whine here or anything. All I get up here is ex-CNW power. and i don't know how to cope with that - it makes me so sad. How can i move on with all of these ex-CNWs up here?
solzrules wrote: nordique72 wrote: I for one hope that the remaining ex-CNW units have a nice long life running on former CNW lines, because with all the new power the UP has been getting and the recent marshalling up of a lot of UP's other SD40-2s I begin to wonder if these units are going to be around much longer. So my advice is- enjoy it, photograph every one you see and remember- THIS IS A HOBBY.And in that vein I would like to report that I saw two patched ex-UP SD 40-2's (one had that CNW bell on the nose, I think) heading to Horicon on WSOR's Chicago to Horicon daily. I think that SD 40-2 was such a good loco that the UP will likely sell most of them to other railroads, rather than retire them. WSOR is running all SD 40-2 sets on those Chicago trains, and it is a nice thing to see if you've got a little nostalgia running in the veins. Reminds me of the Milwaukee in Hartland, WI back when I was a kid. Only difference is that the WSOR keeps their locos looking nice and neat, while the Milwaukee's you could see through if they passed the sun in the wrong light.I have also noticed some really beat up SD 40-2 CNW's in Butler yard in Milwaukee. They must be working the loco pool between Butler and the Twin Cities.
And in that vein I would like to report that I saw two patched ex-UP SD 40-2's (one had that CNW bell on the nose, I think) heading to Horicon on WSOR's Chicago to Horicon daily. I think that SD 40-2 was such a good loco that the UP will likely sell most of them to other railroads, rather than retire them. WSOR is running all SD 40-2 sets on those Chicago trains, and it is a nice thing to see if you've got a little nostalgia running in the veins. Reminds me of the Milwaukee in Hartland, WI back when I was a kid. Only difference is that the WSOR keeps their locos looking nice and neat, while the Milwaukee's you could see through if they passed the sun in the wrong light.
Solz, Nordique (+ others not requiring Ex-Lax should one of 111 nose bells cross your path):
WSOR acquired former UP 3186 and 3753 at the most recent auction; neither has CNW roots. This pair wore retirement black patches - not CNW/UP.
Of the 132 CNW SD40's assimilated to the UP roster, as of earlier this week 111 remain on the rails! New CNW units were delivered between 3/74 and 11/76 - they're all 30 years old! CNW number crunchers 111/135 [3 retired] = 82.2% still in service!
3 units, 2990, 3028, and 3042, are still in patched paint - the other 108 wear Armour Yellow.
A recent trace showed 650 active or stored UP system SD40-2's [UP + CNW + SP + MKT originals ≈ 1200]; 54% are still available. Some will disappear in 2 auctions scheduled 9/6 in St. Louis and 9/20 in Little Rock (perhaps 60-80? - lists are not yet available)
BNSF [ATSF & BN] at one time had 1000 of these; no data on how many remain in active or stored-ready service.
Gone are the days when 4-6 matched units would pull a manifest before your camera so the kiddies could practice counting to 100 - but 40-2's will be around for some time to come.
For those who may enjoy viewing/hunting the 32 remaining CNW patched units:
http://www.fuzzyworld3.com/3um/viewtopic.php?t=673
wctransfer wrote:Tyler, actually there is still a handful of spartan cab CN SD40-2s left. The 5378 was down here recently.(as in a 2 or 3 weeks).Alec
You're right Alec, I forgot about the ex-UP SD40-2's.
Why is it that Union Pacific and the now-defunct Milwaukee Road elicit such incredibly strong and not always rational emotional responses? I've really never noticed anything quite like it related to other roads.
CSSHEGEWISCH wrote: Why is it that Union Pacific and the now-defunct Milwaukee Road elicit such incredibly strong and not always rational emotional responses? I've really never noticed anything quite like it related to other roads.
I would say any bitterness on this forum directed at the Milwaukee Road, or Montana, is actually for Michael or Dave. This forum would be a lot more interesting if other fallen flags had knowledgeable strong supporters like the CMSP&P has in Michael.
In the Yahoo groups, the CMSP&P list is terrific, while the CRI&P list is pretty quiet and the EL list may as well be dead.
There is a lot of bitterness or this forum for CN and CSX as well. Both railroads seem to have too many accidents, and CSX seems unable of running Amtrak on time.
Nanaimo,
Your comment about CSX is right on for those of us here in the southeast. Even with some of the infrastructure problems the SCL did an overall decent job of running Amtrak's long distance trains on time between New York and Florida back in the late 70s-early 80s. In more cases than not, Amtrak schedules received priority. From what I have read, a number of SCL's dispatchers and managers were around during the pre-Amtrak period. These guys took some pride in making certain that the "varnish" ran on time.
Fast forward to today. There are fewer trains on this route yet reports of late runs are no longer surprises. Those old timers are gone and CSX's current CEO has openly expressed terse opinions regarding passenger service over their rails. What can we expect?
yougottawanta wrote:Remenber this when you hate it does not harm those that you hate but only yourself and friends who have to deal with you.Hate causes High blood pressure,which leads to heart attacks,which leads to death , which leads to pain for those left to mourn for you. Forgive and move on.
Wow! Didn't know that.
Thanks, doctor.
Sigh...
It is just PAINT. In the end - a railroad is a railroad. All pretty much the same, no matter what color the engines are.
i have no refute. you have me pinned, friend. you're right. since i care more about my life (and all human life as well really) than CNW locomotives, perhaps extreme hate is not a good idea in the end.either way, i made a deal with copcarSS and i never break promises. so with that said, i had a happy moment in Altoona today. i think this picture will better explain things
i was able to take this picture at just the right angle so that 2990's intrusive cab patch was hidden behind 3236. this shot perfeclty replicates my past and present side-by-side. i felt like i was 4 again after so long. and no i will not refer to 2990 as "UP"
CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:Why is it that Union Pacific and the now-defunct Milwaukee Road elicit such incredibly strong and not always rational emotional responses? I've really never noticed anything quite like it related to other roads.
According to the research and numbers offered by Mr. Sol, the MILW could have made it, if not for inept management. They had the traffic and the route. But the mgmt seemed more concerned on cashing out, taking every cent they could from the operation. And I believe that is why people are so passionate about the MILW.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
WSOR 3801 wrote: CSSHEGEWISCH wrote: Why is it that Union Pacific and the now-defunct Milwaukee Road elicit such incredibly strong and not always rational emotional responses? I've really never noticed anything quite like it related to other roads. According to the research and numbers offered by Mr. Sol, the MILW could have made it, if not for inept management. They had the traffic and the route. But the mgmt seemed more concerned on cashing out, taking every cent they could from the operation. And I believe that is why people are so passionate about the MILW.
Ah, but if it were only that simple.
Without going into needless details, management made some decisions to enhance the appeal of the MILW, which in hindsight turned out to be poor decisions because no other railroad was interested in merging with or acquiring the Milwaukee Road.
In an effort to make its finances more attractive to a possible merger or acquisition partner, some of the infrastructure was allowed to deteriorate. To save more money, the MILW also sold off some of its rolling stock and then leased it back to further burnish the financials. The neglected trackage began to slow down trains and delivery times. Then with revenues sagging, the railroad struggled to find enough funds to lease enough cars to handle the customers it had.
But if at any time during this period another railroad would have acquired or merged with the Milwaukee, it might still be around and its management would have been heralded as geniuses. They followed the playbook on polishing a company's financial reports to make it more attractive.
But no one "cashed out, taking every cent from the operation".
Lord Atmo wrote: nanaimo73 wrote: Lord Atmo wrote: GP35- i was not aware any ex-CNW ones were still around. i would not have a problem with seeing one be preserved Are DMVW still operating their 324 (837), (325) 856 and (326) 862, which were CNW 800s ?that is a good question. i wasnt aware of those units at all. i couldnt find any pictures of them on rrpicturearchives. so i dont know their status i'm afraid
nanaimo73 wrote: Lord Atmo wrote: GP35- i was not aware any ex-CNW ones were still around. i would not have a problem with seeing one be preserved Are DMVW still operating their 324 (837), (325) 856 and (326) 862, which were CNW 800s ?
Are DMVW still operating their 324 (837), (325) 856 and (326) 862, which were CNW 800s ?
This is from LocoNotes-
When I was up on the north end in 2005, the DMVW 862 was in the Crosby engine house getting a winter's long paint job. I can only assume it's still operating as the 862. The 324 was stored on the South end and out of service, then. The 856 had been sold to an elevator in Forman, ND and was still opeating then as well.
Lord Atmo wrote:and no i will not refer to 2990 as "UP"
and no i will not refer to 2990 as "UP"
Then you haven't moved on. Hope is lost.
ah but you forget that it'll one day be repainted and when that day comes, i will have no problems calling it "UP".
i honestly believe referring to patches by different reporting marks shouldn't bother anyone. it's certainly not whining on forums endlessly. and it keeps me happy. so ya know, why dislike it? i'm finding my way to still enjoy the hobby. and if this is what works best, so be it.
bummer about 862. but 7009 looks even more CNW than 862 did anyway. and i have ALS. and i spent all of yesterday just looking at 2990's front side. even after 8701 showed up
Midnight Railroader wrote: coborn35 wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: TimChgo9 wrote: Okay, I'm done. Everyone has tried talking sense here....but....well, it does not appear to be having an effect on a certain person. Bowing out before it gets more preposterous. Zug said it best..... zugmann wrote: It's true. Can't argue sense with the senseless. Time to move on. Yes. Me, too. From now on I'll try to carry on discussions only with railfans who are not living with their parents. I resent that.You mean, you resemble that.
TOUCHE!
ah here's the image:
CNW 8701 and CNW 2990
2990 looks better
Lord Atmo wrote:Here's the image:CNW 8701 and CNW 2990 2990 looks better
Both keen schemes - but 8701 has NO armour yellow - just its original colors! Good to see them side-by-side! The traffic jam due to the lack of crews at Adams [between Butler (Milwaukee) and the Twin Cities] has really got traffic clogged up.
Lord Atmo wrote: 2990 has a spartan cab with no UP alterations.
Isn't the "coffee can" receptacle above the far ditch light a UP modification ?
And what about the ditch lights ?
dont forget the horn on both of them. although 2990's doesnt look like a CNW or UP horn
and i said cab with no UP alterations, not pilot with no UP alterations
Lord Atmo-
5 ex C&NW GP35s are in Ontario, 825, 836, 841, 843 and 864. These are now INCO GP38M-4 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008.
http://www.trainweb.org/incorail/roster/2004.html
looks like they're all repainted. thanks for the info though. but i think at this point, my best solution is in several parts. i'm gonna:
- as i said before, pretend all repainted ex-CNWs were never CNW to begin with
- avoid any and every patched spartan cab at all costs
- move on to fan a new railroad. i'm trying to negotiate a deal with my parents to allow me to pay a monthly trip down to Alma and fan the BNSF all day. it's less frequent than my daily UP runs, but the number of trains more than makes up for it
perhaps more even. i'm figuring out new ways to enjoy the hobby
Or...you could move on and not repost your same "rules" over and over again...
Lord Atmo wrote:looks like they're all repainted. thanks for the info though. but i think at this point, my best solution is in several parts. i'm gonna: - as i said before, pretend all repainted ex-CNWs were never CNW to begin with - avoid any and every patched spartan cab at all costs- move on to fan a new railroad. i'm trying to negotiate a deal with my parents to allow me to pay a monthly trip down to Alma and fan the BNSF all day. it's less frequent than my daily UP runs, but the number of trains more than makes up for it perhaps more even. i'm figuring out new ways to enjoy the hobby
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