Add me to the UP dislikers club

[wctransfer]

Well ,Noah, congrats on being one of the few who offered some good advice. Im just a wee lad too, 15 years young.

Alec

[Lord Atmo]

i'm afraid i haven't been completely honest around here. while everything i whined about was how i felt about it, i make it seem like Altoona is nothing great. but i'm wrong. and my railfanning life is NOT terrible. i've just been annoyed with the manifest power these days. but the train i catch the most, the roadrailer, has NS power on it almost always now. once an NS SD60 even led. and that was a great night for me. i admit i even jumped around like an idiot because of how excited i was (before the crews could see me. i was behind a shed. eheheheh). the manifest power is sometimes good. especially when that GEVO showed up. but often it's SD40-2s. the problem there is they're all ex-CNW. and it just makes me so sad to see those CNWs running in UP paint. and i'm not trying to whine here or anything. i'm just being honest. and i hope this post doesnt come off as angry. all i get up here is ex-CNW power. and i don't know how to cope with that. it makes me so sad. i know some have told me to like it because "at least they're still being used and run", but i see it more as. well if you had a pet dog you loved and had fun with. then the dog got old and died, wouldnt you want the dog buried peacefully instead of stuffed and kept like furniture?

when other power like SD70Ms or AC44CWCTEs come through, i love it and take their pictures. but then i showthose pictures off and i get grief for being excited about "the new stuff". but the older stuff in my area just makes me sad.

again, i'm not trying to whine or argue here. i'm honestly seeking advice to what i should do. how can i enjoy the newer power without getting grief for it? because that's where i find fun in this hobby. and how can i move on with all of these ex-CNWs up here? i'll be honest. that this is the problem with how i was unable when i asked for help a while back.

[Poppa_Zit]

i'm afraid i haven't been completely honest around here. while everything i whined about was how i felt about it, i make it seem like Altoona is nothing great. but i'm wrong. and my railfanning life is NOT terrible. i've just been annoyed with the manifest power these days. but the train i catch the most, the roadrailer, has NS power on it almost always now. once an NS SD60 even led. and that was a great night for me. i admit i even jumped around like an idiot because of how excited i was (before the crews could see me. i was behind a shed. eheheheh). the manifest power is sometimes good. especially when that GEVO showed up. but often it's SD40-2s. the problem there is they're all ex-CNW. and it just makes me so sad to see those CNWs running in UP paint. and i'm not trying to whine here or anything. i'm just being honest. and i hope this post doesnt come off as angry. all i get up here is ex-CNW power. and i don't know how to cope with that. it makes me so sad. i know some have told me to like it because "at least they're still being used and run", but i see it more as. well if you had a pet dog you loved and had fun with. then the dog got old and died, wouldnt you want the dog buried peacefully instead of stuffed and kept like furniture?

when other power like SD70Ms or AC44CWCTEs come through, i love it and take their pictures. but then i showthose pictures off and i get grief for being excited about "the new stuff". but the older stuff in my area just makes me sad.

again, i'm not trying to whine or argue here. i'm honestly seeking advice to what i should do. how can i enjoy the newer power without getting grief for it? because that's where i find fun in this hobby. and how can i move on with all of these ex-CNWs up here? i'll be honest. that this is the problem with how i was unable when i asked for help a while back.

Solution? Easy. This is a hobby, which is supposed to be fun. Do what pleases you -- enjoy the newer power. What anyone else thinks does not count for anything.

I think you're taking it much too seriously for it to be fun for you anymore. No one can tell you how to "move on", so help in that direction won't be forthcoming. Be glad you're in a place where there are trains to watch. There are a lot of places in America where the tracks see only one or two trains a week -- plus a lot of places without tracks. What if you lived in The Land of No Railroads -- southwest Wisconsin? Then what would you do for a hobby?

Sometimes, when we whine about what we don't have, we're forgetting to be grateful for what we do have.  

[nordique72]

but often it's SD40-2s. the problem there is they're all ex-CNW. and it just makes me so sad to see those CNWs running in UP paint. and i'm not trying to whine here or anything. i'm just being honest. and i hope this post doesnt come off as angry. all i get up here is ex-CNW power. and i don't know how to cope with that. it makes me so sad. i know some have told me to like it because "at least they're still being used and run", but i see it more as. well if you had a pet dog you loved and had fun with. then the dog got old and died, wouldnt you want the dog buried peacefully instead of stuffed and kept like furniture?

You cope with it by enjoying it because these "dogs" haven't "died" yet. Are you suggesting that the UP retire all of the old CNW engines just because you don't like seeing them in UP paint- or to run with your silly dog analogy "put them to sleep and bury them"?

The reason you see so many ex-CNW units is simple- it's ex-CNW territory!!! The ex-CNW SD40-2s are kept around in the Chicago/Wisconsin area because they are equipped with the old CNW cab signals- for the most part they stay close to Proviso and the midwest, although they do wander beyond that occasionally. I for one enjoy seeing the remaining ex-CNW SD40-2s on home rails still out running- that's more than I can say for the SD50s and SD60s which were returned to their lessor, and the SD45s, GP30s, and GP35s which were retired.

I for one hope that the remaining ex-CNW units have a nice long life running on former CNW lines, because with all the new power the UP has been getting and the recent marshalling up of a lot of UP's other SD40-2s I begin to wonder if these units are going to be around much longer. So my advice is- enjoy it, photograph every one you see and remember- THIS IS A HOBBY.

[EJE818]

I think UP is doing a good job preserving its heritage. They have 6 heritage engines, the 844 and 3985, the Es, the Centennial, plus the president sent a letter to Roper shops telling the people at the shop NOT to patch a DRGW. The CNW dash 9s are also not to be patched. In fact, thanks to UP, I have seen numerous consists of 3 specially painted engines plus the Es on display in Franklin Park. I also know many engineers and conductors from UP. I'm 17 and like the UP. Lord Atmo, I understand that you get a lot of ex-CNW SD40-2s and I wouldn't like seeing the same engines over and over either. I would hate to see the EJ&E engines runing around in some other railroad's paint but nothing lasts forever, just look at how long the DM&IR was around before the merge with CN. I would suggest going to get your photos of the CNW Dash 9s and 1995 because they won't last forever either. Just look at how UP 3300 was temporaraly retired. Specially painted engines are not invincible and they can have a major problem just as easily as a regular UP engine can, so enjoy them while they are around. One day, you may not see the SD40-2s at all. I would feel lucky to have all of those running on the Geneva Sub.

[solzrules]

I for one hope that the remaining ex-CNW units have a nice long life running on former CNW lines, because with all the new power the UP has been getting and the recent marshalling up of a lot of UP's other SD40-2s I begin to wonder if these units are going to be around much longer. So my advice is- enjoy it, photograph every one you see and remember- THIS IS A HOBBY.

And in that vein I would like to report that I saw two patched ex-UP SD 40-2's (one had that CNW bell on the nose, I think) heading to Horicon on WISOR's Chicago to Horicon daily.  I think that SD 40-2 was such a good loco that the UP will likely sell most of them to other railroads, rather than retire them.  WISOR is running all SD 40-2 sets on those Chicago trains, and it is a nice thing to see if you've got a little nostalgia running in the veins.  Reminds me of the Milwaukee in Hartland, WI back when I was a kid.  The only difference is that the WISOR keeps their locos looking nice and neat, while the Milwaukee's you could see through if they passed the sun in the wrong light.

I have also noticed some really beat up SD 40-2 CNW's in Butler yard in Milwaukee.  They must be working the loco pool between Butler and the Twin Cities.   

[Lord Atmo]

but often it's SD40-2s. the problem there is they're all ex-CNW. and it just makes me so sad to see those CNWs running in UP paint. and i'm not trying to whine here or anything. i'm just being honest. and i hope this post doesnt come off as angry. all i get up here is ex-CNW power. and i don't know how to cope with that. it makes me so sad. i know some have told me to like it because "at least they're still being used and run", but i see it more as. well if you had a pet dog you loved and had fun with. then the dog got old and died, wouldnt you want the dog buried peacefully instead of stuffed and kept like furniture?

You cope with it by enjoying it because these "dogs" haven't "died" yet. Are you suggesting that the UP retire all of the old CNW engines just because you don't like seeing them in UP paint- or to run with your silly dog analogy "put them to sleep and bury them"?

The reason you see so many ex-CNW units is simple- it's ex-CNW territory!!! The ex-CNW SD40-2s are kept around in the Chicago/Wisconsin area because they are equipped with the old CNW cab signals- for the most part they stay close to Proviso and the midwest, although they do wander beyond that occasionally. I for one enjoy seeing the remaining ex-CNW SD40-2s on home rails still out running- that's more than I can say for the SD50s and SD60s which were returned to their lessor, and the SD45s, GP30s, and GP35s which were retired.

I for one hope that the remaining ex-CNW units have a nice long life running on former CNW lines, because with all the new power the UP has been getting and the recent marshalling up of a lot of UP's other SD40-2s I begin to wonder if these units are going to be around much longer. So my advice is- enjoy it, photograph every one you see and remember- THIS IS A HOBBY.

i tried that. it didnt work. our idea on what makes a locomotive "dead" may be different. i see it as when it loses its CNW paint, it dies. but that's just me. i think the best thing i can do is pretend they never were CNWs at all. then it doesnt upset me to see them. and as for 3042 which comes here all the time, well i can trace it and simply not go to altoona if it's there. 

those ex-CNWs might be gone soon? well if so, then my problem will be gone and i can move on all the more easily.

either way, i'll find some way to get past this and have fun again 

[nanaimo73]

Lord Atmo, would you like to see this locomotive if it was still around ? If not, a simple "not really" will suffice.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cnw/cnw811ary.jpg

[wctransfer]

Ya, Im not sure what Atmo's obsession with SD40-2s are. They were one of the many cool spartan cabs on the CNW. The GP30s(kinda),GP35s,GP38-2s,GP40s,GP50s,SD18s,SD40s,SD45,SD38-2s and so on. I'd much rather preserve an SD40 or a GP40 than an SD40-2.

Alec

[Lord Atmo]

well see, i thought and discussed what to preserve and run excursions on. and the SD40-2 has the least problems. but IRM would probably be able to afford the costs of running it. heck, they can afford to run that BN U30C after all. but the problems i've found with the others are:

GP30- well to be honest, i'm just not into GP30s. they look rather weird to me. and i was hoping for something a tad more modern
GP35- i was not aware any ex-CNW ones were still around. i would not have a problem with seeing one be preserved
GP40- after connie, NYC, and PC ran them to death, they were less than useful on the CNW. it could only give IRM a bigger headache. plus wouldnt you rather see a GP40 in NYC paint?
GP50/SD50- i've heard these had a lot of problems. mainly overworking the 645s in them. so they wouldnt be effective to run at IRM
SD60- same as the SD50, but just less problematic. i've heard the CNW ones had the most problems out of all the SD60s because they were the first ever made. then SOO line got an improved batch when they placed their order (speaking of SD60s, i wonder if i'll ever see UP 2201 again... that was an awesome day)
SD45- all of the ones without db's were sold and modified into SD40-3s. several of them are still running in SP paint. i'd actually enjoy seeing those. and the other ones would be better off in the colors of the roads they were on before CNW. while there are several SD45s i'd rather see at museums, i know it's only right that we get one in SLSF and ATSF colors before we see a CNW or even WC SD45
SD38-2- those don't represent CNW very well. and i also dont see UP giving them up any time soon. as they have proven very useful in the massive yard that is Proviso.

now as for the SD40s, i would not be opposed to preserving one or a GP35.
as long as they'd be in the OY scheme and not the oelwein scheme or the older streamliner scheme like 1518 is. and there's 4160 still fading away in janesville. actually there are GP7s and GP9s all over the place

but this will take lots of planning and i haven't yet figured everything out. i intend to wait about 20 years or so because it wont be long before UP starts getting rid of the SD40-2s. and then the leasers, regionals, shortlines, etc will probably start running them because of how useful they have been proven to be.  

i am also considering looking into GP38-2s or GP15-1s. probably the latter if any. UP has done quite a bit to tyhe GP38-2s. while their modifications dont bother me (paint aside), i know several other CNW fans who dislike it and wouldnt be thrilled to see a GP38-2 in CNW paint with A/C and db's. plus we've got 2 great ALS GP38-2s that look CNW enough to make me happy 

[nanaimo73]

 GP35- i was not aware any ex-CNW ones were still around. i would not have a problem with seeing one be preserved
 

Are DMVW still operating their 324, 325 and 326, which were CNW 800s ?

[enr2099]

the merger was fine. but they didnt need to kill off all of CNW's locomotives. you dont see CN having problems with WC, GTW, DMIR, and IC power getting lost all the time. UP could've afforded to keep an SD40-2 around. heck, they seem to have no problems keeping those GE scrap heaps running

The only reason CN keeps that old junk around is because they are too cheap to spend money on new power. They are finally buying new power these past few years because the SD40(-2)'s are literally falling apart. Our SD40-2's are junk and I hope they scrap every last one of them once the new SD70M-2's and ES44DC's arrive. BTW, the only CN SD40-2's(not counting the GTW, IC, DMIR, WC and BCOL units) left have the safety cabs, all of CN's spartan cab SD40's have been retired. 

[Lord Atmo]

 GP35- i was not aware any ex-CNW ones were still around. i would not have a problem with seeing one be preserved
 

Are DMVW still operating their 324, 325 and 326, which were CNW 800s ?

that is a good question. i wasnt aware of those units at all. i couldnt find any pictures of them on rrpicturearchives. so i dont know their status i'm afraid

[wctransfer]

Tyler, actually there is still a handful of spartan cab CN SD40-2s left. The 5378 was down here recently.(as in a 2 or 3 weeks).

Alec

[wctransfer]

Yup, the DMVW still has them (in CNW paint too).

Alec

[Lord Atmo]

dont forget DMVW 862. still sporting OY as of 2005. with any luck, it still hasnt been repainted

[da Milwaukee beerNut]

But often it's SD40-2s. the problem there is they're all ex-CNW. and it just makes me so sad to see those CNWs running in UP paint. I'm not trying to whine here or anything. All I get up here is ex-CNW power. and i don't know how to cope with that - it makes me so sad. How can i move on with all of these ex-CNWs up here?

A laxative and a good hug should make you feel better!

[Lord Atmo]

i think the hug should probably come before the lax. heh

[da Milwaukee beerNut]

I for one hope that the remaining ex-CNW units have a nice long life running on former CNW lines, because with all the new power the UP has been getting and the recent marshalling up of a lot of UP's other SD40-2s I begin to wonder if these units are going to be around much longer. So my advice is- enjoy it, photograph every one you see and remember- THIS IS A HOBBY.

And in that vein I would like to report that I saw two patched ex-UP SD 40-2's (one had that CNW bell on the nose, I think) heading to Horicon on WSOR's Chicago to Horicon daily.  I think that SD 40-2 was such a good loco that the UP will likely sell most of them to other railroads, rather than retire them.  WSOR is running all SD 40-2 sets on those Chicago trains, and it is a nice thing to see if you've got a little nostalgia running in the veins.  Reminds me of the Milwaukee in Hartland, WI back when I was a kid.  Only difference is that the WSOR keeps their locos looking nice and neat, while the Milwaukee's you could see through if they passed the sun in the wrong light.

I have also noticed some really beat up SD 40-2 CNW's in Butler yard in Milwaukee.  They must be working the loco pool between Butler and the Twin Cities. 

Solz, Nordique (+ others not requiring Ex-Lax should one of 111 nose bells cross your path):

WSOR acquired former UP 3186 and 3753 at the most recent auction; neither has CNW roots. This pair wore retirement black patches - not CNW/UP.

Of the 132 CNW SD40's assimilated to the UP roster, as of earlier this week 111 remain on the rails! New CNW units were delivered between 3/74 and 11/76 - they're all 30 years old! CNW number crunchers 111/135 [3 retired] = 82.2% still in service!

3 units, 2990, 3028, and 3042, are still in patched paint - the other 108 wear Armour Yellow.

A recent trace showed 650 active or stored UP system SD40-2's [UP + CNW + SP + MKT originals ≈ 1200]; 54% are still available. Some will disappear in 2 auctions scheduled 9/6 in St. Louis and 9/20 in Little Rock (perhaps 60-80? - lists are not yet available)

BNSF [ATSF & BN] at one time had 1000 of these; no data on how many remain in active or stored-ready service.

Gone are the days when 4-6 matched units would pull a manifest before your camera so the kiddies could practice counting to 100 - but 40-2's will be around for some time to come.

For those who may enjoy viewing/hunting the 32 remaining CNW patched units:

http://www.fuzzyworld3.com/3um/viewtopic.php?t=673

[EJE818]

Ok, there are only 3 patched CNW SD40-2s left? I am going to have to keep tabs on those and see them before they get UP yellow. I know on UP 2990 you can read CNW on the front, it UP patch on the front is missing. It is getting a bit beat up but thats what you expect from an engine that hasn't been painted for a long time. Only 32 patched CNWs left, wow, that isn't that many. At least they are planning to keep the 8646 and 8701 unpatched. They may be Dash 9s, but they are still the last unpatched CNWs left and once those are gone, it will truely be a end of an era.

[enr2099]

Tyler, actually there is still a handful of spartan cab CN SD40-2s left. The 5378 was down here recently.(as in a 2 or 3 weeks).

Alec

 

You're right Alec, I forgot about the ex-UP SD40-2's. 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Why is it that Union Pacific and the now-defunct Milwaukee Road elicit such incredibly strong and not always rational emotional responses?  I've really never noticed anything quite like it related to other roads.

[nanaimo73]

Why is it that Union Pacific and the now-defunct Milwaukee Road elicit such incredibly strong and not always rational emotional responses?  I've really never noticed anything quite like it related to other roads.

I would say any bitterness on this forum directed at the Milwaukee Road, or Montana, is actually for Michael or Dave. This forum would be a lot more interesting if other fallen flags had knowledgeable strong supporters like the CMSP&P has in Michael.

In the Yahoo groups, the CMSP&P list is terrific, while the CRI&P list is pretty quiet and the EL list may as well be dead.

There is a lot of bitterness or this forum for CN and CSX as well. Both railroads seem to have too many accidents, and CSX seems unable of running Amtrak on time. 

[AntonioFP45]

Nanaimo,

Your comment about CSX is right on for those of us here in the southeast.  Even with some of the infrastructure problems the SCL did an overall decent job of running Amtrak's long distance trains on time between New York and Florida back in the late 70s-early 80s.  In more cases than not, Amtrak schedules received priority.   From what I have read, a number of SCL's dispatchers and managers were around during the pre-Amtrak period. These guys took some pride in making certain that the "varnish" ran on time.  

Fast forward to today.  There are fewer trains on this route yet reports of late runs are no longer surprises.   Those old timers are gone and CSX's current CEO has openly expressed terse opinions regarding passenger service over their rails.  What can we expect? 

 

 

[yougottawanta]

Remenber this when you hate it does not harm those that you hate but only yourself and friends who have to deal with you.Hate causes High blood pressure,which leads to heart attacks,which leads to death , which leads to pain for those left to mourn for you. Forgive and move on.

[Poppa_Zit]

Remenber this when you hate it does not harm those that you hate but only yourself and friends who have to deal with you.Hate causes High blood pressure,which leads to heart attacks,which leads to death , which leads to pain for those left to mourn for you. Forgive and move on.

Wow! Didn't know that.

Thanks, doctor.

[zugmann]

Sigh...

 It is just PAINT.  In the end - a railroad is a railroad.  All pretty much the same, no matter what color the engines are. 

[Lord Atmo]

Remenber this when you hate it does not harm those that you hate but only yourself and friends who have to deal with you.Hate causes High blood pressure,which leads to heart attacks,which leads to death , which leads to pain for those left to mourn for you. Forgive and move on.

i have no refute. you have me pinned, friend. you're right. since i care more about my life (and all human life as well really) than CNW locomotives, perhaps extreme hate is not a good idea in the end.either way, i made a deal with copcarSS and i never break promises. so with that said, i had a happy moment in Altoona today. i think this picture will better explain things

i was able to take this picture at just the right angle so that 2990's intrusive cab patch was hidden behind 3236. this shot perfeclty replicates my past and present side-by-side. i felt like i was 4 again after so long. and no i will not refer to 2990 as "UP"

[WSOR 3801]

Why is it that Union Pacific and the now-defunct Milwaukee Road elicit such incredibly strong and not always rational emotional responses?  I've really never noticed anything quite like it related to other roads.

 

According to the research and numbers offered by Mr. Sol, the MILW could have made it, if not for inept management.  They had the traffic and the route.  But the mgmt seemed more concerned on cashing out, taking every cent they could from the operation.  And I believe that is why people are so passionate about the MILW. 

[Poppa_Zit]

Why is it that Union Pacific and the now-defunct Milwaukee Road elicit such incredibly strong and not always rational emotional responses?  I've really never noticed anything quite like it related to other roads.

 

According to the research and numbers offered by Mr. Sol, the MILW could have made it, if not for inept management.  They had the traffic and the route.  But the mgmt seemed more concerned on cashing out, taking every cent they could from the operation.  And I believe that is why people are so passionate about the MILW. 

Ah, but if it were only that simple.

Without going into needless details, management made some decisions to enhance the appeal of the MILW, which in hindsight turned out to be poor decisions because no other railroad was interested in merging with or acquiring the Milwaukee Road.

In an effort to make its finances more attractive to a possible merger or acquisition partner, some of the infrastructure was allowed to deteriorate. To save more money, the MILW also sold off some of its rolling stock and then leased it back to further burnish the financials. The neglected trackage began to slow down trains and delivery times. Then with revenues sagging, the railroad struggled to find enough funds to lease enough cars to handle the customers it had.

But if at any time during this period another railroad would have acquired or merged with the Milwaukee, it might still be around and its management would have been heralded as geniuses. They followed the playbook on polishing a company's financial reports to make it more attractive.

But no one "cashed out, taking every cent from the operation".