Anybody else getting annoyed........

[Anonymous]

mrdls1
Don't let brakie discourage you from any forum, posting anything, participating in this or the hobby. There always has to be ONE person who thinks they are the "KING" of the hill. Brakie is a very negetative influence to new modelers. From previous posts you will find he thinks HIGHLY of himself. His attitude is obviously relevant to his level of education.

When you first get involved in the hobby there are many things people are not aware of. Only by asking questions do you learn. If brakie is annoyed by your post he should avoid it, just like I avoid ALL of his. Just because he has hit his enter button on this forum more times than most people doesn't mean he has given anything credible to the discussion.

As for Brakie it is long past due someone told you so. Your negative influence to new people give this hobby and the people who do it a bad name. If you don't like my statement shoot away. But I have come to disregard any post you make because of your attitude toward certain people on this forum. It is uncalled for.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by on30francisco

If it wasn't for Bachmann's line of RTR On30 locos, I probably wouldn't be into this scale. I really enjoy scratchbuilding rolling stock and structures using stripwood and detail parts, however, if there's an RTR product available for something I want at a reasonable price, I'll buy it. I have also built some rolling stock and structure kits and enjoy them. Some of the RTR products available today are very detailed and sometimes cost less than it would to scratchbuild them. In those cases I will buy RTR. What I strongly dislike is assembling very finicky and intricate parts (such as truck frames). If a kit involves this kind of assembly, I will buy an RTR version. Although I enjoy building things, I also like running trains. The rolling stock that I scratchbuild must operate flawlessly - even if it involves omitting or compromising some details.

When I started in G I was like you, RTR only, but as I got deeper into it, I found I really wanted lokies and cars that the mfrs simply refused to do so out came the razorsaw and Dremel tool and I started bashing and later scratchbuilding. Its only a matter of time before you get your first kit, I've seen some truely awesome HO to On30 conversion kits for sale, give one a try, you might just surprise yourself at how much fun it can be[;)][:D]

edit At least you On30 guys can GET kits, we dont even get THAT luxury...[V]

[Anonymous]

Still no one has answered my question.

What do you do since every RTR piece has had the fun taken out of it???

Respectfully and Inquisitivly Yours,

James

[Anonymous]

I would imagine some people really like to weather train cars whether they are rtr or kits. That could be one option.

[davekelly]

Some folks like operation, some scenery building, some just like watching trains go round and round.

[waltersrails]

i agree i like both i'm on your side on this.

[on30francisco]

I much prefer scratchbuilding and find it much easier than assembling craftsman kits. Although you can customize craftsman kits and kitbash, scratchbuilding allows you almost unlimited freedom when it comes to designing and building unique models. I prefer RTR for locos and have no desire to build a loco from a kit. If I want to customize it, I can do it at my leisure. A lot of today's RTR is supurbly detailed and runs excellent right out of the box (the way I like it). I've noticed there are a lot of supurb structural craftsman kits available for HO and On30. Although this is a good thing in that it helps promote the scales and encourages people's creativity, it discourages me because my incentive to scratchbuild is diminished. Why reinvent the wheel? Let's face it; with the high technology available (eg laser cutting and extremely precision machinery) to the makers of today's RTR, it is very difficult and tedious to kitbuild or scratch something of equal quality - especially in the smaller scales. I now model On30 as a secondary scale and use a lot more RTR. There is no incentive for me to build a model that's available in RTR that looks better and is cheaper than anything I could ever build. I have gravitated towards narrow gauge indoor Large Scale modeling (from a model railroader's perspective) due to my love of scratchbuilding unusual rolling stock, structures (especially with wood), the ease of super detailing, and building models that aren't available commercially, however, I still like and use RTR for locos.

[galaxy]

I'm getting really sick of people putting down RTR equiptment. Just the other day I was looking at getting an Athearn RTR SD60 and the 3 guys I was talking with gave me a dirty look and said "Don't go wasting your time on that Athearn or Kato or Atlas***, buy a kit and build it yourself". This made me lose it. I replied "Well, I don't really have the time to build kits, not to mention locomotive kits are usually somewhat challenging, and the RTR is way better looking than I could ever make it look". They were infuriated by this and yelled "How are you ever going to know if you don't do it yourself!?" After that they made a quick leave. What's the big deal with RTR locomotives and rolling stock? They offer a quick way to get your trains running and look great. I would consider Kato locomotives RTR, too, even if you do have to apply the detail parts. Most people including myself just don't have the time, the skills or the patience to build kits. And mind you I'm just talking locomotives (kit rolling stock is fun, but RTR is nice once in a while). So lay off, pro-kit builders.

Anyone else feel the same way as me?

 

Heres's how you solve problems such as this: Ask them, politely of course, when was the last time they hand/scratch built or assembled  their rolling stock ( I.E. their car, truck, suv).

That should shut them up. RTR doesn't sound bad then? Oh, ANd stay away from chevy, honda and porsche because they are just crap. A Caddillac is better and so is KIa.

I like to take it run it right away. I have aslo built a few rolling stock Athern BB (oh hte horror!)

[BRAKIE]

'LOCOMOTIVE (and other) KIT'S have alway's been 'minority' items for the hobby. LaBelle, Ambroid, and Intermountain's 'Craftsman' kit's primary appeal is to those with ''Look what I Built" motivation ... or possibly a hidden Masochistic streak - so what is wrong with that? ATHEARN's longtime popularity has been based on 'Shake the box' kit's that were cheap. (I wonder if there are still Athearn engine's running without their railing's that required soldeing?).

Dealer's have to stock what SELLS - if they want to stay in business.

If WE want to pay someone to assemble our product's for us (Chinese labor) that's our option. For those choosing to do their own, there is BOWSER, INTERMOUNTAIN, and other small specialty companies - but only if you hurry. Does anybody remember when car kit's were a block of wood or stripwood?

 

Don,By the thousands those old Athearn units solider on and will for years to come..

Oddly I don't know of anybody that solder their Athearn handrails.

And time was modelers did indeed like to show their lastest kit built locomotive or car..That gave way to their newest brass locomotive and that gave way to todays RTR.

Oddly RTR is nothing new as many smart mouth model modelers think.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I used to build a lot of kits but in recent years severe nerve damage from diabetes and spinal meningitis has made kit building very difficult, so RTR has become very attractive. Also the BB kits aren't bad. I can put them together without too much of a problem. Not so for the Proto 2000 kits. I tried one of their covered hoppers, big mistake. I won't do that again. That kit let me know that my kit building days are behind me. If I can get a loco or car that's already assembled for just a little more than a kit would cost I jump at it. My most recent purchase was a Proto 2000 Union Pacific FA1-FB1 set.

[CAZEPHYR]

We all tend to look at models and how we acquire them differently.  For whatever reason they gave an opionion on the RTR SD60, it could have been ignored by you.  Just because someone believes they have to built kits to have an exact correct model overlooks the fact that many of us do not have the ability or need to build our own.   You will find this at many large clubs also since the older members might be building kits instead of purchasing RTR.  I have always believed a comment like you heard is the lack of how the hobby works on their part.  We would not have any selection of trains to purchase if everyone felt the need to build their own models from scratch.

Having belonged to an older established club as my first real operating experience, I heard a lot of comments about how their varney locomotives did not have problems like the new and latest brass we were running experienced on the layout.  The best way to handle that type of  comment is to ignore them.  Get over the fact that we have varied tastes and interest in this hobby and most any other things that all of do every day.   I used to ask more questions of the person to have them point everything they think is wrong with the model.  Sometimes, they are not as swift as they want you to believe.

 If you like the RTR, buy it and enjoy the hobby.  Most of us tend to purchase RTR that need some upgrades but that is the quickest way to enjoy the experience.    

 

   

[Anonymous]

I love building the "shake-a-box" kits, but loco kits just seem hard. Anyway, I don't want to worry about messing up a $100 loco. I also like simple buildings.

[Dallas Model Works]

The worst thing about just about any hobby is the people who want to impose "my way" on everybody else.

If you like RTR, fine.

If building locomotive/rolling stock/structure kits floats your boat, hooray.

If you like some combination of the above, swell.

Whatever keeps somebody happy and active in the hobby is what matters!

[Ted Marshall]

What inspired on30francisco to dig up this thread after a year and a half of dormancy?

Anybody else notice?

I'm getting a lil' annoyed here. LOL 

[John Busby]

Hi 4884 big boy

I see it this way

Is the loco I want available good RTR yes Buy it, NO look at kits, is the kit simple yes Buy it No forget it. do I need to scratch build said loco yes then my MRR don't need it.

It is not what you buy or what you build yourself that creates the model railway but how the collective whole is blended together.

What I don't like is when someone I did not ask tells me what I should do and buy as far as my hobby goes.

When I need help or want advice I am quite capable of asking, it would seem some people just don't get we all build our railways the best we can with the skills we have.

If others don't like it I figure they have the problem not me

regards John

[jeffrey-wimberly]

What I don't like is when someone I did not ask tells me what I should do and buy as far as my hobby goes.

When I need help or want advice I am quite capable of asking, it would seem some people just don't get we all build our railways the best we can with the skills we have.

If others don't like it I figure they have the problem not me

regards John

[Gandy Dancer]

'LOCOMOTIVE (and other) KIT'S have alway's been 'minority' items for the hobby.

I've never considered kits or RTR to be a one or the other sort of thing.  Let me think,  If I only ran models made from kits (I'm not considering Athearn BB to be a kit here). ...... I would have a few Roundhouse steam engines, 1 Bowser, a Hobbytown RS-3, and 20-30 freight cars, and 10-15 or so passenger.  Most of those cars are the almost trivial Roundhouse type kits.  So if I go further and only count craftsman type kits I would have 5-10 freight cars, and 5 passenger (which I did not build myself).  Not much of a showing.  I would guess that is less than 3% of my operational fleet.  If I counted the non-operational fleet it is probably much higher percentage of kits - but hey, that is why they are non-operational.  I don't have time to assemble them.  Don't even have time to add weight and put Kadee's on the RTRs in the non-operational fleet.

to dig up this thread after a year and a half of dormancy?  Anybody else notice?

OOps, no I didn't notice.  I sometimes like old threads.

[Train Master]

I have very few kits. just a couple of buildings. Everything else is rtr.

[Cederstrand]

If I even bothered with them, I might have said, "And I still use rapido couplers!" (sorry if I caused anyone here to lose their lunch, but it is the truth)

Who cares what someone else thinks...it's your time, money, interest that matters to you. And even if you did nothing but kits, there would be someone else to come along and suggest you did it wrong. Enjoy whatever aspect of the hobby interests you most.

  Rob

[fwright]

It's a Friday, and I feel like trolling....

As a kit builder, I would say, "Girlie men buy RTR.  Manly men build kits."

The scratch builders would of course say, "Girlie men buy RTR and build kits.  Manly men build from scratch."

And the RTR folks would say, "Girlie men don't make enough money to buy RTR.  They sit in the LHS complaining about others.  Manly men just fork over real cash to buy what they want."

TGIF

[Train Master]

Manly men just fork over real cash to buy what they want."

Sounds good to me.

[Ted Marshall]

If I even bothered with them, I might have said, "And I still use rapido couplers!" (sorry if I caused anyone here to lose their lunch, but it is the truth)

Who cares what someone else thinks...it's your time, money, interest that matters to you. And even if you did nothing but kits, there would be someone else to come along and suggest you did it wrong. Enjoy whatever aspect of the hobby interests you most.

  Rob

Y'all know what this is coming to, don't you? Eventually nobody will want to share the hobby because of the criticism they may expect to receive because they build kits or prefer RTR or whatever.

I remember in November last year at a HO & N scale train show sponsored by a local club in Ft. Myers, a beautiful 3' long display of a scratchbuilt double track mainline with left crossover. Every rail, hand cut, bent, laid and spliced. Every spike hand driven. I mean...It was sweet.

I said to my girlfriend...Honey, doesn't this look familiar? I asked her this because the day before I was doing trackwork at home and she was there with me when I finished my third set of crossovers using Atlas Code 100 #6's. The guy, and I mean he was old with a long beard and mustache and thick glasses. I'll always remember those thick glasses. They caused his eyes to look three times larger than they already were, staring at me as I was marveling at his work.

He stood up, looked me square in the eye and asked me, how can this look familiar to you? Do you scratchbuild? Of course by now I'm a little intimidated by this guy despite the fact that he's old, blind and quite frail. "This is scratchbuilt and unless you scratch build your own track, you can't say this looks familiar!"  I was left speechless. Mr., I admire your work, I replied and walked away.

I was so excited to see such a magnificent piece of work. One that certainly must have taken this man months, if not years to make by hand. And mind you, it was only a three foot section, only to have all my questions that I was prepared to ask him vanish from my mind because all I wanted to do was get away from him.

He wasn't there to share, I say. He was there to shove "my way is the right way and your way is the wrong way" down my throat. Needless to say, this turns me off, big time and causes me to be reluctant to share.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Unfortunately I have come across the a lot of those 'I'll shove my way down your throat and make you like it!' types, some on this forum. I try to keep my distance from such types. I like RTR, I like Bachmann EZ track and the EZ Command. I also like Athearn BB locos and kits and I like using plywood as a base for my layout. I tried foam, had unbelievable static electricity problems with it and abandoned it. Call me square but I don't like sound locos either.

[Ted Marshall]

Call me square but I don't like sound locos either.

Ok Jeff, you're square. lol

[jeffrey-wimberly]

Call me square but I don't like sound locos either.

Ok Jeff, you're square. lol

I know, I'm old-school too.

[snagletooth]

 I didn't even know they still made kits for loco anymore. I thought it was all RTR, prepainted and detailed with DCC and sound. Who makes kits? When I hear kits, I think the old Bowser steamers.
 Any of those three guys build a Bowser? They probably buying undec BB's and think their building a kit.

[emdgp92]

I think there's enough kits and other goodies for us all to enjoy things. I like to build kits myself, but if there's nothing available that I want, I'll get an RTR. Most RTR stuff isn't *really* ready-to-run anyway. It's too clean! With that said, I have no problems about taking my RTR cars apart, dirtying them up a bit, and sometimes swapping out the couplers and/or wheelsets.

Also, I think the BB series by Athearn is great. They're simple, and easy enough for a beginner to assemble...who then might move into more difficult kits. If that's the case, I think we all win. 

 

[R. T. POTEET]

Am I the only one with a repertoire of insulting comebacks like "Have you three thought about changing the air in your heads this weekend?"

[brothaslide]

If we want this hobby to grow then we need to be more inclusive.  This type of "my way or the high way" attitude turns people off.

[One Track Mind]

Amen brothaslide! On my way to work this morning, I heard:

"I am no better, and neither are you...we're all the same, whatever we do...different strokes for different folks..."

Sly & the Family Stone had it right in 1969 and it's still right today.

there is a scratchbuilder who doesn't like the kitbasher who doesn't dig R-T-R...c'mon, everyday people! sing it with me! Get on the Love Train!

no I'm not on anything, just listened to the oldies station all day...

it's taken awhile, but for what it's worth, I've tried to discourage a lot of this kind of talk in my shop over the years. It's just not productive.