Anybody else getting annoyed........

[Anonymous]

I'm getting really sick of people putting down RTR equiptment. Just the other day I was looking at getting an Athearn RTR SD60 and the 3 guys I was talking with gave me a dirty look and said "Don't go wasting your time on that Athearn or Kato or Atlas***, buy a kit and build it yourself". This made me lose it. I replied "Well, I don't really have the time to build kits, not to mention locomotive kits are usually somewhat challenging, and the RTR is way better looking than I could ever make it look". They were infuriated by this and yelled "How are you ever going to know if you don't do it yourself!?" After that they made a quick leave. What's the big deal with RTR locomotives and rolling stock? They offer a quick way to get your trains running and look great. I would consider Kato locomotives RTR, too, even if you do have to apply the detail parts. Most people including myself just don't have the time, the skills or the patience to build kits. And mind you I'm just talking locomotives (kit rolling stock is fun, but RTR is nice once in a while). So lay off, pro-kit builders.

Anyone else feel the same way as me?[V][?]

[TrainFreak409]

I'm all for Ready to Run locomotives. I feel that I don't have the skill to build them yet. Nor do I have the space. I don't have a workbench, and I'd rather not do it at the kitchen table with dogs and brothers running around. Nor do I want to do it at my computer desk. And I'm N scale, and there aren't many loco kits in my scale. Before I work on locomotive kits, I'm going to start with kitbashing and playing around with building stuff.

I wish Athearn had an N scale blue box series, because I loved opening a blue box and building the HO models.[:D]

[Anonymous]

i love RTR engines and freight cars but i'm willing to buy either RTR or kits to get what i want- i'm in this hobby beacause i want to run trains, not to build kits (although i'm willing to build them if neccesary)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

I'm getting really sick of people putting down RTR equiptment. Just the other day I was looking at getting an Athearn RTR SD60 and the 3 guys I was talking with gave me a dirty look and said "Don't go wasting your time on that Athearn or Kato or Atlas***, buy a kit and build it yourself". This made me lose it. I replied "Well, I don't really have the time to build kits, not to mention locomotive kits are usually somewhat challenging, and the RTR is way better looking than I could ever make it look". They were infuriated by this and yelled "How are you ever going to know if you don't do it yourself!?" After that they made a quick leave. What's the big deal with RTR locomotives and rolling stock? They offer a quick way to get your trains running and look great. I would consider Kato locomotives RTR, too, even if you do have to apply the detail parts. Most people including myself just don't have the time, the skills or the patience to build kits. And mind you I'm just talking locomotives (kit rolling stock is fun, but RTR is nice once in a while). So lay off, pro-kit builders.

Anyone else feel the same way as me?[V][?]

My thought as I read this was what business is it of theirs how you enjoy your hobby? Ignore them.

[RedGrey62]

Its your money and your time, do what you want. I've done both and I have to say that if I can get an RTR loco with the paint scheme and features I want, I'm going to get it. Better yet, my wife is going to get it, happily, cause she won't see it on the "kit shelf" and she won't hear me grumble when I 1) lose a part, 2) need a tool I don't have (like the right size bit for the pin vise), and 3) I figure out how to screw it up!

There are alot of "holier than thows" out there. I have another term for them, "haters", no matter what, they'll hate something. Have fun.

Rick

[UNIONPACIFIC4018]

I didnt realize everything was avaiable in kit form. Well unles you are doing PRR then Bowser has most of them. I mean 90% of locomotives are assembled, you should of asked them how many brass locos they had.
Those seem to show up assembled.

[Anonymous]

I get annoyed whenever someone tells someone else what they should do or believe. (except you really cannot divide by zero)

I get annoyed that there are not N scale kits so I can at least try one.

[railroadyoshi]

I am all for RTR locos. I just don't have the skill for Loco building. Heck, i don't have the skill for maintaining RTR locos. However, I don't buy RTR rolling stock or structures.

I don't push my belief on anyone else, and I expect they won't push on me. And that applies far beyond railroading.

[elauterbach]

Love running them, hate building them! That is why I buy mostly RTR.
Eric

[fievel]

I'm glad there are plenty of RTR locos and freight cars, as it gives me more
time to build structure kits. I built several n scale Roundhouse kits ( rolling
stock ). They were all right, but RTR seems to not wobble around as much.
I'm not sure if it's my fault, or MDC's, but I do prefer RTR. Maybe it'll cost me
a little more, but it usually runs well.

[Anonymous]

All of my Locos and much of my rolling stock is RTR. I get great satisfaction out of assembling structure kits, scratch building trees and scenery and painting and weathering.

But assembling a loco is a little much for me. If I mess up a part on a building, I can usually "weather it" away or, move the building to a not so obvious location. If I messed something up on a loco, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself!

[howmus]

I have built locos from kits, and I have RTR. At this point in my life, I prefer to buy locos ready to set on the track and run. Of course I will still have to add a decoder, do some minor changes, add some details, and weather and decal the locomotive for my road. The only person you have to pease is you! I let stuff like that go in one ear and right out the other. I often nod my head approvingly, say thank you, and then go home call my son and say, "You should have seen the jerk I was talking with at the LHS..... What an @$$hole!".

Have fun with you're trains!

[tangerine-jack]

I don't see what right anybody has to tell somebody else how to enjoy something. I have mostly RTR, and a few kits, but I don't understand what all the fuss is about. I simply tell the close minded idiots where exactly on their anatomy a kit or RTR will fit with the proper forcing. Do these knuckle draggers (on BOTH sides of the non existent argument) have no lives? Do they really get a kick out of controlling what other people want to do?

I buy what I want, when I want, and from whom I want. I tell the naysayer to get stuffed and just enjoy my hobby.

[tigerstripe]

Just tell them that you are following prototypical practice, I think they get all of their loco's from GE & EMD, RTR. Sometimes they even get them "undec" primer grey or without stripes and numbers. I have seen a few that came from "kits" from EMD and assembled by Conrail. But the vast majority are ready to run.

[bwftex]

Not me...............

I recently bought an RTR Trainman boxcar that I was really pleased with. It’s the first RTR car I've bought since I was a kid. It’s a very good-looking, very well made and painted model. Even the cast on detail is excellent.

I've got nothing against RTR. I'm only a little disappointed. Even though I live not far from one of the better model train stores in the country car kits have almost completely disappeared from the shelves, locomotive kits have completely disappeared, and scratch building supplies are fewer every time I visit. The store has a massive inventory but it's almost all RTR, scenery supplies, built ups, and Walthers plastic kits. The one hobby shop in our area that did have almost everything for a person who likes to build his own stuff closed a few years ago. Fortunately it’s easy to find supplies and parts on the Internet.

I think that some guys get upset that things are changing in the way people and manufactures approach model railroading. They miss the old ways of sharing the same interests and goals as most everyone else in the hobby. A few don’t seem to understand that some folks are not interested in building models, don’t have a 20 + year collection of tools and skills or simply have not reached a point where they are ready to bash and scratch locomotive’s, cars or structures. Unfortunately it appears a few can't project their feelings in an articulate and non-abrasive fashion either.

People such as myself who take a more craftsman type approach to the hobby are few. We typically spend less, nit pick more and are not the main group supporting the hobby. People who approach the hobby from an operational or collecting interest are much greater and now dominate the hobby. But every one loves trains and we can all still pursue our individual interests even if we **** off each other once in awhile. I remember about 40 years ago when I was about 10 some guys bashing RTR and telling me that my little Docksider was junk. In retrospect it was junk but it was exactly what I wanted then and it served me well. Thirty years ago I visited a club that was starting up and brought along my HOn3 models to see if they might be interested in possibly having a narrow gauge branch. They laughed me out of the room. You can still say “narrow gauge” and some folks will look at you like you’re a leper.

Some things change some don't. I wouldn't worry about it much or get too annoyed, as there is little benefit in it.

Bruce

[Anonymous]

Kinda torques me off, too. I really enjoy scratch building things, but had it not been for Bachmann's Spectrum RTR On30 series locomotives, I likely would not have gotten into that scale. Now, I have scratch built several On30 locomotives. I'll buy at least one or two more RTR locos, and I'm sure a lot of my rolling stock will be RTR. I think people need to mind their own beeswax.

[Don Gibson]

'LOCOMOTIVE (and other) KIT'S have alway's been 'minority' items for the hobby. LaBelle, Ambroid, and Intermountain's 'Craftsman' kit's primary appeal is to those with ''Look what I Built" motivation ... or possibly a hidden Masochistic streak - so what is wrong with that? ATHEARN's longtime popularity has been based on 'Shake the box' kit's that were cheap. (I wonder if there are still Athearn engine's running without their railing's that required soldeing?).

Dealer's have to stock what SELLS - if they want to stay in business.

If WE want to pay someone to assemble our product's for us (Chinese labor) that's our option. For those choosing to do their own, there is BOWSER, INTERMOUNTAIN, and other small specialty companies - but only if you hurry. Does anybody remember when car kit's were a block of wood or stripwood?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy
[What's the big deal with RTR locomotives and rolling stock?

I must claim that I am in the Kit Building Camp.

Here are my bones of contention with ready to run/ready to install model railroad items.

1. They are more expensive than kits of similarly detailed items.

2. They are harder to customise because if you want to change something. You have to dissassemble it in order to re work it. While this isn't that big a deal on Rolling Stock. Ready to Install buildings it causes serious problems, Instead of changing them on the sprue, It has to done another way.

3. All the "Fun" is gone.

4. I personally have terrible luck with ready to run purchases. Every piece of RTR equipment that I was given or have broke down and purchased. (Just for sake of comparison. I am only discussing "New" items) Have had what I deem to be serious quality control issiues.

5. If everything goes to ready to run. Who is going to put the Model in Model railroading? We will have to change it to Miniature Railroading.

Just how I feel about it.

James

[Train 284]

I agree with you brother all the way! I would never even think of building my own loco. That guy is just a big dumb s***

[CNJ831]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

'LOCOMOTIVE (and other) KIT'S have alway's been 'minority' items for the hobby. LaBelle, Ambroid, and Intermountain's 'Craftsman' kit's primary appeal is to those with ''Look what I Built" motivation ... or possibly a hidden Masochistic streak - so what is wrong with that? ATHEARN's longtime popularity has been based on 'Shake the box' kit's that were cheap. (I wonder if there are still Athearn engine's running without their railing's that required soldeing?).

Don, locomotive (and other) kits have always been minority items in the hobby? I'm not sure where you've been but let's face facts, from the 1930's up through the mid 1980's our hobby was all about kits of every kind! For many years the only RTR stuff was mainly low end junk that no serious modeler even wanted...or very expensive brass.

What I think folks have to appreciate is that the craftsmanship is slowly going out of the hobby and this is what may have upset those two guys in the hobby shop. The current excuse is that the hobbyist has less time to build locos and cars, needing it to work on his layout. But an ever increasing range of RTR structures, roadbed, trees, etc. are becoming the standard and I'm sure finished commercial layout modules will be commonplace and popular before this decade is out. We are clearly moving away from the older craftsman's hobby that dominated for so many years and toward one of simple collecting and it is this that many established modelers resent.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

I think it is up to each individual and their own talents, and of course I agree time. Never enough time. I buy ready to run and some kits, but if I had a choice it would be all ready to run items.

[wctransfer]

I love RTR locomotives. the reason is most of the time the company gets the details correct, does well with the font and color. I dont have and airbrush,workbench, any of that. The only thing i have is glue! I even get satisfaction of glueing some details on, it may sound stupid , but thats all i have. For looks i go RTR, but if i want to do something , and i have a lot of time, i get a kit. I buy a lot of RTR stuff, and am pleased with them all. Some guys think too highly of themselves, and all i say is shove it.

Alec

[Anonymous]

my athearn b-b gp38-2 is missing the handrailings and #boards and i'm happy w/ the detail, it's one of my favorite engines

[selector]

Here's to RTR. May they populate every layout where they are needed and/or desired. I spend enough time on things trains, thank-you very much, and I don't need to get my skin alabaster white by staying indoors any longer than I already do by taking up train building. I'll leave that to others who are so inclined. Me, I like the turn-key approach....turn the key and the loco approaches. [:D]

[BRAKIE]

RTR engines isn't anything new..They have been around as long as I care to remember.You ever of PFM/United? Tenshodo? Balboa? Trains Inc ? Alco Models? Hallmark and other brass locomotive companies? Varney,Athearn and Mantua all had RTR engines..Companys like AHM,Lionel and Cox had RTR Engines and cars..
Nope nothing new under the sun here except todays RTR models are highly detailed.
As for me I love RTR engines and cars..I no longer want to look at a kit.After all I started building engine and car kits at the age of 10.

Now..I hope you have notice the influx of prebuilt structures..

RTR and prebuilt structures are the future of the hobby..

[dwRavenstar]

Some will criticize for the sake of criticism.

If you're not into railroad modelling you should be, if you're a modeller and run RTR you should scratch build everything, if you try your hand at scratching your talents are never going to be good enough. The guys who were messing with BigBoy would never run out of room for their own attacks.

It's a Hobby, a Past time, something to do that delivers personal enjoyment. Just as water finds its own level so do modellers. Do what satisfies YOU and revel in the satisfaction and enjoyment of your efforts and participation. Tell the nay-sayers to catch the next freight to a warmer climate.

dwRavenstar

[Anonymous]

I buy blue boxes. I buy RTR loco's. Will I buy RTR rolling stock. If the price is right you bet I will. As had already been stated. This is a fun hobby not a " I can out do you" hobby. Another thing to consider is age. Sooner or later the eyes and hands fail. Its your railroad, your money and what you spend it on is your business and yours alone. Phil

[bwftex]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Don Gibson

'LOCOMOTIVE (and other) KIT'S have alway's been 'minority' items for the hobby. LaBelle, Ambroid, and Intermountain's 'Craftsman' kit's primary appeal is to those with ''Look what I Built" motivation ... or possibly a hidden Masochistic streak - so what is wrong with that? ATHEARN's longtime popularity has been based on 'Shake the box' kit's that were cheap. (I wonder if there are still Athearn engine's running without their railing's that required soldeing?).

Dealer's have to stock what SELLS - if they want to stay in business.

If WE want to pay someone to assemble our product's for us (Chinese labor) that's our option. For those choosing to do their own, there is BOWSER, INTERMOUNTAIN, and other small specialty companies - but only if you hurry. Does anybody remember when car kit's were a block of wood or stripwood?

Don,
Most of the craftsman type kits from the companies you mentioned are not particularly difficult or painful to build. Unless following directions is difficult or painful. And the Intermountain’s are plastic stick on the parts type kits, you don’t have to make or form anything. One of the reasons folks build theses kits is because they fit the era and or prototype they are modeling because little else is available. Older steam era cars are poorly represented by RTR. One of the reasons these kits especially those in wood aren’t stocked much is because after you’ve built several you know how a car goes together and in what sequence so you don’t need any kits just some plans and some material. Some folks have fun building stuff, some don't. But how is a guy who builds craftsman kits a masochistic opposed to a guy doesn’t. Some folks get a lot of pleasure having a "look what I built " mentality, probably just as much as those who have a "look what I bought mentality". Bruce

[Anonymous]

I would buy a RTR any day of the week before I would buy a kit. Why spend the money on the kit and mess it up and make it look like crap. I'm also sure the resale value of a RTR is alot higher than one of a kit build. Just my thoughts.

[jrbernier]

You should ask the 'kit builder' just where he is going to buy a good HO diesel model(RTR or kit) if not from Kato, Athearn, P2K, Stewart or Spectrum. If I want a SD60 or a GP9 ph1, who do I get a 'kit' from? The kind of folks who make these statements have done no real modeling in years(or at least purchased model engines in the past 10 years).
Myself, a good undec 'kit' of any of the above engines would be nice, but I doubt if the price will be any better. Back in the 70's, I kitbashed Athearn GP7's into Milw GP9's, detailing/painting/decaling them. Those old engines do not compare with fleet of P2K engines I now have, and the P2K engines have correct paint jobs/numbers!
I attend a lot of flea markets/train shows and still see a lot of old stuff that the owners are trying to sell off(usually at prices too high for the market). The marketplace has changed, and we have to adjust to it.

Jim