Anybody else getting annoyed........

[jeffrey-wimberly]

What I don't like is when someone I did not ask tells me what I should do and buy as far as my hobby goes.

When I need help or want advice I am quite capable of asking, it would seem some people just don't get we all build our railways the best we can with the skills we have.

If others don't like it I figure they have the problem not me

regards John

[John Busby]

Hi 4884 big boy

I see it this way

Is the loco I want available good RTR yes Buy it, NO look at kits, is the kit simple yes Buy it No forget it. do I need to scratch build said loco yes then my MRR don't need it.

It is not what you buy or what you build yourself that creates the model railway but how the collective whole is blended together.

What I don't like is when someone I did not ask tells me what I should do and buy as far as my hobby goes.

When I need help or want advice I am quite capable of asking, it would seem some people just don't get we all build our railways the best we can with the skills we have.

If others don't like it I figure they have the problem not me

regards John

[Ted Marshall]

What inspired on30francisco to dig up this thread after a year and a half of dormancy?

Anybody else notice?

I'm getting a lil' annoyed here. LOL 

[Dallas Model Works]

The worst thing about just about any hobby is the people who want to impose "my way" on everybody else.

If you like RTR, fine.

If building locomotive/rolling stock/structure kits floats your boat, hooray.

If you like some combination of the above, swell.

Whatever keeps somebody happy and active in the hobby is what matters!

[Anonymous]

I love building the "shake-a-box" kits, but loco kits just seem hard. Anyway, I don't want to worry about messing up a $100 loco. I also like simple buildings.

[CAZEPHYR]

We all tend to look at models and how we acquire them differently.  For whatever reason they gave an opionion on the RTR SD60, it could have been ignored by you.  Just because someone believes they have to built kits to have an exact correct model overlooks the fact that many of us do not have the ability or need to build our own.   You will find this at many large clubs also since the older members might be building kits instead of purchasing RTR.  I have always believed a comment like you heard is the lack of how the hobby works on their part.  We would not have any selection of trains to purchase if everyone felt the need to build their own models from scratch.

Having belonged to an older established club as my first real operating experience, I heard a lot of comments about how their varney locomotives did not have problems like the new and latest brass we were running experienced on the layout.  The best way to handle that type of  comment is to ignore them.  Get over the fact that we have varied tastes and interest in this hobby and most any other things that all of do every day.   I used to ask more questions of the person to have them point everything they think is wrong with the model.  Sometimes, they are not as swift as they want you to believe.

 If you like the RTR, buy it and enjoy the hobby.  Most of us tend to purchase RTR that need some upgrades but that is the quickest way to enjoy the experience.    

 

   

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I used to build a lot of kits but in recent years severe nerve damage from diabetes and spinal meningitis has made kit building very difficult, so RTR has become very attractive. Also the BB kits aren't bad. I can put them together without too much of a problem. Not so for the Proto 2000 kits. I tried one of their covered hoppers, big mistake. I won't do that again. That kit let me know that my kit building days are behind me. If I can get a loco or car that's already assembled for just a little more than a kit would cost I jump at it. My most recent purchase was a Proto 2000 Union Pacific FA1-FB1 set.

[BRAKIE]

'LOCOMOTIVE (and other) KIT'S have alway's been 'minority' items for the hobby. LaBelle, Ambroid, and Intermountain's 'Craftsman' kit's primary appeal is to those with ''Look what I Built" motivation ... or possibly a hidden Masochistic streak - so what is wrong with that? ATHEARN's longtime popularity has been based on 'Shake the box' kit's that were cheap. (I wonder if there are still Athearn engine's running without their railing's that required soldeing?).

Dealer's have to stock what SELLS - if they want to stay in business.

If WE want to pay someone to assemble our product's for us (Chinese labor) that's our option. For those choosing to do their own, there is BOWSER, INTERMOUNTAIN, and other small specialty companies - but only if you hurry. Does anybody remember when car kit's were a block of wood or stripwood?

 

Don,By the thousands those old Athearn units solider on and will for years to come..

Oddly I don't know of anybody that solder their Athearn handrails.

And time was modelers did indeed like to show their lastest kit built locomotive or car..That gave way to their newest brass locomotive and that gave way to todays RTR.

Oddly RTR is nothing new as many smart mouth model modelers think.

[galaxy]

I'm getting really sick of people putting down RTR equiptment. Just the other day I was looking at getting an Athearn RTR SD60 and the 3 guys I was talking with gave me a dirty look and said "Don't go wasting your time on that Athearn or Kato or Atlas***, buy a kit and build it yourself". This made me lose it. I replied "Well, I don't really have the time to build kits, not to mention locomotive kits are usually somewhat challenging, and the RTR is way better looking than I could ever make it look". They were infuriated by this and yelled "How are you ever going to know if you don't do it yourself!?" After that they made a quick leave. What's the big deal with RTR locomotives and rolling stock? They offer a quick way to get your trains running and look great. I would consider Kato locomotives RTR, too, even if you do have to apply the detail parts. Most people including myself just don't have the time, the skills or the patience to build kits. And mind you I'm just talking locomotives (kit rolling stock is fun, but RTR is nice once in a while). So lay off, pro-kit builders.

Anyone else feel the same way as me?

 

Heres's how you solve problems such as this: Ask them, politely of course, when was the last time they hand/scratch built or assembled  their rolling stock ( I.E. their car, truck, suv).

That should shut them up. RTR doesn't sound bad then? Oh, ANd stay away from chevy, honda and porsche because they are just crap. A Caddillac is better and so is KIa.

I like to take it run it right away. I have aslo built a few rolling stock Athern BB (oh hte horror!)

[on30francisco]

I much prefer scratchbuilding and find it much easier than assembling craftsman kits. Although you can customize craftsman kits and kitbash, scratchbuilding allows you almost unlimited freedom when it comes to designing and building unique models. I prefer RTR for locos and have no desire to build a loco from a kit. If I want to customize it, I can do it at my leisure. A lot of today's RTR is supurbly detailed and runs excellent right out of the box (the way I like it). I've noticed there are a lot of supurb structural craftsman kits available for HO and On30. Although this is a good thing in that it helps promote the scales and encourages people's creativity, it discourages me because my incentive to scratchbuild is diminished. Why reinvent the wheel? Let's face it; with the high technology available (eg laser cutting and extremely precision machinery) to the makers of today's RTR, it is very difficult and tedious to kitbuild or scratch something of equal quality - especially in the smaller scales. I now model On30 as a secondary scale and use a lot more RTR. There is no incentive for me to build a model that's available in RTR that looks better and is cheaper than anything I could ever build. I have gravitated towards narrow gauge indoor Large Scale modeling (from a model railroader's perspective) due to my love of scratchbuilding unusual rolling stock, structures (especially with wood), the ease of super detailing, and building models that aren't available commercially, however, I still like and use RTR for locos.

[waltersrails]

i agree i like both i'm on your side on this.

[davekelly]

Some folks like operation, some scenery building, some just like watching trains go round and round.

[Anonymous]

I would imagine some people really like to weather train cars whether they are rtr or kits. That could be one option.

[Anonymous]

Still no one has answered my question.

What do you do since every RTR piece has had the fun taken out of it???

Respectfully and Inquisitivly Yours,

James

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by on30francisco

If it wasn't for Bachmann's line of RTR On30 locos, I probably wouldn't be into this scale. I really enjoy scratchbuilding rolling stock and structures using stripwood and detail parts, however, if there's an RTR product available for something I want at a reasonable price, I'll buy it. I have also built some rolling stock and structure kits and enjoy them. Some of the RTR products available today are very detailed and sometimes cost less than it would to scratchbuild them. In those cases I will buy RTR. What I strongly dislike is assembling very finicky and intricate parts (such as truck frames). If a kit involves this kind of assembly, I will buy an RTR version. Although I enjoy building things, I also like running trains. The rolling stock that I scratchbuild must operate flawlessly - even if it involves omitting or compromising some details.

When I started in G I was like you, RTR only, but as I got deeper into it, I found I really wanted lokies and cars that the mfrs simply refused to do so out came the razorsaw and Dremel tool and I started bashing and later scratchbuilding. Its only a matter of time before you get your first kit, I've seen some truely awesome HO to On30 conversion kits for sale, give one a try, you might just surprise yourself at how much fun it can be[;)][:D]

edit At least you On30 guys can GET kits, we dont even get THAT luxury...[V]

[Anonymous]

mrdls1
Don't let brakie discourage you from any forum, posting anything, participating in this or the hobby. There always has to be ONE person who thinks they are the "KING" of the hill. Brakie is a very negetative influence to new modelers. From previous posts you will find he thinks HIGHLY of himself. His attitude is obviously relevant to his level of education.

When you first get involved in the hobby there are many things people are not aware of. Only by asking questions do you learn. If brakie is annoyed by your post he should avoid it, just like I avoid ALL of his. Just because he has hit his enter button on this forum more times than most people doesn't mean he has given anything credible to the discussion.

As for Brakie it is long past due someone told you so. Your negative influence to new people give this hobby and the people who do it a bad name. If you don't like my statement shoot away. But I have come to disregard any post you make because of your attitude toward certain people on this forum. It is uncalled for.

[on30francisco]

If it wasn't for Bachmann's line of RTR On30 locos, I probably wouldn't be into this scale. I really enjoy scratchbuilding rolling stock and structures using stripwood and detail parts, however, if there's an RTR product available for something I want at a reasonable price, I'll buy it. I have also built some rolling stock and structure kits and enjoy them. Some of the RTR products available today are very detailed and sometimes cost less than it would to scratchbuild them. In those cases I will buy RTR. What I strongly dislike is assembling very finicky and intricate parts (such as truck frames). If a kit involves this kind of assembly, I will buy an RTR version. Although I enjoy building things, I also like running trains. The rolling stock that I scratchbuild must operate flawlessly - even if it involves omitting or compromising some details.

[Todd McWilliam]

I like putting together Athearn kits, but time is an issue, so I prefer to by Athearn rtr. I have about 10 kits I have never got around to doing. I really enjoy the kits.

[lyctus]

I think folk should adopt a more global view of the hobby. Each of us has different talents, electrical, scratch building,structures,scenery and some of us dabble in all aspects. I like to see the layout and all that is part of it "the hobby" , so if you prefer RTR locos or/and rolling stock, go for it. How you operate your railway is your hobby, your buzz. Just enjoy it, and BTW, there must be some of us buying RTR locos....there are hundreds on offer....and thousands sold....

[IRONROOSTER]

Wow, this thread took off.

First I have personally built locomotives, cars, and structures from kits - both plastic and craftsman. I have, also, scratchbuilt cars and structures as well as handlaying track. I have bought RTR locos, cars, and track (probaby will for structures when they are available).

My personal opinion is: life is short and this is a hobby, do the fun stuff and buy the rest. Whatever that is for you. For me it is an eclectic mix of all the above as mood and whimsy moves me.

Enjoy
Paul

[davekelly]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bukwrm

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

QUOTE: Originally posted by ngartshore350

QUOTE: Originally posted by ngartshore350

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

QUOTE: Originally posted by ngartshore350

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

QUOTE: Originally posted by bukwrm

(except you really cannot divide by zero)

Actually, there is one exception to that rule, where you can divide by zero. Anybody know what that exception is, and what the resultant value is (besides me, I mean)?
[:D]

I am sure any number divided by itself is one for all but zero, then it is infinity. But it has been a few years since leaving University. I remember something about using this in design a forth order Chebychev Filter (Excuse the spelling!)
Could it be zero divided by zero equals 1?

You can divide by zeroand any number divided by zero is infinity! (Pure Mathematics) Sorry Engineer coming out[:D]

But isn't it that by definition anything divided by itself is 1? Engineer in me is also coming out.

Sorry lets try again!

I am sure any number divided by itself is one for all but zero, then it is infinity. But it has been a few years since leaving University. I remember something about using this in design a forth order Chebychev Filter (Excuse the spelling!)

Actually, that's the tricky thing. In some fields of higher matheimatics the definition that any number divided by itself equals one is "superior" to the rule that any number divided by zero is undefined. So the correct answer to zero divided by zero equals one. That's one definition used in some higher mathematical fields. But usually it's just considered indeterminate.

So there is no real answer - it depends on what you're doing.

Kinda twists your brain around, doesn't it?

I think I learned this in abstract algebra, or perhaps it was in Partial Differential Equations.

Don't go to school for thirty years and they go and change EVERYTHING.

I remember specifically being told that 0/0 was NOT 1 but that was a long time ago. I thought (i) was going to come up in this, I never did get that square root of -1 stuff. That's probably why I became a mechanic.

Ah the joys of imaginary numbers!!! What was it? i x i = -1, thus the square root of -1 equals i? Or something like that . . . . . .

[Pruitt]

Here's my take on the subject at hand -

Model railroading is like life - it 's different for each of us.

If RTR is your thing, that's fine by me! I'm not going to presume to declare that you aren't a Model Railroader just because everything you own came full-up out of the box, or that your efforts are somehow inferior to my own just because you pursue the hobby in a way I don't. In fact, the only way I'll even suggest that you change your approach to the hobby is if you tell me you aren't having any fun with it.

Other than that - do whatever floats your boat. I only ask the same consideration for myself.

[douginut]

Please, In a way I agree with you, but many of us are Kit BUYERS. NOT kit builders.
also it's YOUR railroad. You are the sole stock holder. You are the Mechanical department. What anyone else does with his money and time is their business, if they want to BUY you the kits, they listen to them.

ENJOY!
Doug, in Utah

[Anonymous]

Brakie,
yea i understand and this will be my last post in this fourm. and as for the hobby i think ill find something else to do......................@ssHole

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by timthechef

I'm a kit builder too. I"m worried that kits are dissapearing from the market. I have to go to e-bay to find a simple steam engine kit. I've been trying to get chimneys for my railroad station project and can't find any at my local hobby stores. I understand that kits and scratch building is not for everybody, I'm just worried that the products in the hobby that I love are dissapearing.

I stopped at Davis Trains Friday and they have more wall space devoted to HO kits than to N scale rolling stock. I did see 1 N scale kit but nothing that I could use on my layout. Wood, styrene and brass for scratch building are easily available at the closest Hobby Lobby or art store if the LHS does not carry them. I don't think anything is disappearing but in some places it might be easier to find them.

[BRAKIE]

mrdls1,There are questions that should be ask..Then there are the no brainer questions we see every day on every forum that should never be ask..
Now how do you think we learn before the age of the computer and there was nobody to ask? Model railroading doesn't require a PHD..It does require common sense.A 10 year old child can put down a basic loop of track with industry spurs on a 4x8..So,again its not a rocket science but good common sense works wonders..
You don't go to the store and come home and say I got a yellow box..I THINK they are Cheerios.So by you saying "i did buy a few Athearn (i think thease are what u call blue box kits but being dumb im not sure" makes no sense at all..You see if you really bought any of those blue boxes it should say "Athearn..That is all you need to know because the moniker of BLUE BOX is just a nick name given to the Athearn kits that comes in blue boxes.Common sense son,common sense use it.
Now..Understand?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

QUOTE: Originally posted by ngartshore350

QUOTE: Originally posted by ngartshore350

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

QUOTE: Originally posted by ngartshore350

QUOTE: Originally posted by davekelly

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brunton

QUOTE: Originally posted by bukwrm

(except you really cannot divide by zero)

Actually, there is one exception to that rule, where you can divide by zero. Anybody know what that exception is, and what the resultant value is (besides me, I mean)?
[:D]

I am sure any number divided by itself is one for all but zero, then it is infinity. But it has been a few years since leaving University. I remember something about using this in design a forth order Chebychev Filter (Excuse the spelling!)
Could it be zero divided by zero equals 1?

You can divide by zeroand any number divided by zero is infinity! (Pure Mathematics) Sorry Engineer coming out[:D]

But isn't it that by definition anything divided by itself is 1? Engineer in me is also coming out.

Sorry lets try again!

I am sure any number divided by itself is one for all but zero, then it is infinity. But it has been a few years since leaving University. I remember something about using this in design a forth order Chebychev Filter (Excuse the spelling!)

Actually, that's the tricky thing. In some fields of higher matheimatics the definition that any number divided by itself equals one is "superior" to the rule that any number divided by zero is undefined. So the correct answer to zero divided by zero equals one. That's one definition used in some higher mathematical fields. But usually it's just considered indeterminate.

So there is no real answer - it depends on what you're doing.

Kinda twists your brain around, doesn't it?

I think I learned this in abstract algebra, or perhaps it was in Partial Differential Equations.

Don't go to school for thirty years and they go and change EVERYTHING.

I remember specifically being told that 0/0 was NOT 1 but that was a long time ago. I thought (i) was going to come up in this, I never did get that square root of -1 stuff. That's probably why I became a mechanic.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: What gets me annoyed are people putting down Athearn.
I've said it once, I'm gonna say it again " You can't go wrong with Athearn!'

no you can't -Athearns are affoardable, reliable, and long lasting There is a good number of Athearn engines i will be getting- Let those people put down Athearn then the prices of used Athearns will plummit[:D][;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

I'm a smart, gifted and talented individual, and can build, assemble or repair just about anything you put in front of me - or at least I'll try. However, I don't put other people down because they can't. It took many years of trial and error for me to learn what I know and develop my skills. We're not all put together exactly alike. I also buy RTR any time I can.

Tracklayer

[Anonymous]

Bigboy you are right, some of the RTR cars Athearn has been coming out with are top of the line. I just picked up 2 of their new PS 3bay covered hoppers ,Wow the detail and the paint jobs are first rate. Check out their new 65ft mill gons, nice!!
Another thing annoying me and its on this forum once or twice aweek is the whining about price.