Is the hobby shop doing the right thing? I want your opinion... (SOLVED)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwr_1986

... I'm just trying to figure out where you get this notion that they can just call their post office.
Jesse

That´s the way it works in Europe. Throughout western Europe, if you have the parcel´s shipping number, chances are they´ll find your (lost) stuff rather fast. [:)]

I guess electrolove thinks that business in the USA is done the same way it is over here. Yes, I DID get a refund when the wrong stuff was shipped, and they sent me a postage paid package along with a few neat Herpa cars as an apology. That was a German dealer though. Another one goofed on my 8-40CW pre-order (I wanted the sound equipped, he mistakenly ordered the non-sound). I got it at half price, along with a voucher for a fine meal at Mövenpick´s.

Same in Switzerland - I was the one who goofed on the order (3-rail instead of 2-rail). The dealer took the engine back, and I had received my refund one day after I sent the parcel on its way.

[electrolove]

Still no answer from Tony's.

[Anonymous]

Believe it or not, the rest of the world is not as obsessed about this minor misunderstanding as you seem to be.

Chill.

Mike Tennent

[Anonymous]

Since it took so long, I'd just call VISA and complain that merchant billed me for the wrong item and isn't taking care of it. Chances are VISA will give a refund (and possibly bill it to merchant). They handle these kinds of problems every day by probably by hundreds.
I understand why the guys is obsessed - he got screwed. What should he do, forget about the whole thing?

Having said that, I can't belive Tony didn't fix this already. I used Tony's once and the other guy took my order and he did screw up, but then Tony himself straightened it all out.

[electrolove]

ironpenguin:

Don't be rude!

If you look at all the answer to this post you will understand that a lot of people are interested in this. If you are not interested, that's ok.

dimastep:

Tony's have charged my VISA, and I will wait until I know why they did it before doing anything else. Maybe everything is done correctly this time. They will send me an invoice soon, I hope.

[Anonymous]

electrolove,

just curious: what amount of money are we talking about here?

[electrolove]

Kiel-Holtenau:

About 140 USD.

[Virginian]

What ever happened to the first shipment of track?

Inquiring minds want to know !!!!!!!!

[electrolove]

Virginian:

I really don't know because the tracking number did not give me any answers.

[palallin]

That's just it: you don't know what happened to the track, and they don't either. As far as they know, you have it. We understand why you're reluctant to give up on $140. What some of us can't understand is why YOU can't understand the same reluctance on their part.

It's your hobby. It's their livelihood.

[electrolove]

I really don't care what they think. They shipped me the wrong track, and I did exactly what they told me to do to return it. It's their livelyhood, yes. They can pay their bills because guys like me are buying things from them. Do you think I will buy anything more from them after this? And how many people on this forum will stop buying from them after this? If it's importent for them to have a succesfull business, they must handle their customers much much better then this. Thanks for your opinion.

[palallin]

You know, I really do hope you get this resolved, but, if your patronage is no longer a goal of theirs, they're going to be less motivated to resolve it on favorable terms with you. If they feel like they can't win, they're certainly less likely to cooperate. IOW, threatening them with cutting off their payment while still not being able to produce the merchandise (since you were imprudent enough to never bother veriying its arrival or its destination) means they've already lost just about everything they can on the deal. Given your attitude, it's no wonder they're not being helpful. There is no incentive for them to do anything to help, and, if you cancel the payment without being able to produce proof you returned the package, they've perhaps got a case against you for investigation of theft or mail fraud.

As I said, I know nothing about them. But you acted imprudently, and they are acting prudently. I wouldn't have many qualms about doing business with them,but, given my interests, it's unlikely that I need to. Many (if not all) others who ARE satisfied with their services are unlikely to be swayed by your experience considering the amount of responsibility you bear for its occurance.

[Virginian]

Next time it happens, and it will, maybe with another supplier, but all people make mistakes, go to the Post office, receive the item, THEN ship it back insured with a tracking number and hold onto that number. Also, ask the shipper to give you a return authorization number, and a UPS call number (but some will not pay the freight).
I just knew no post office could be trusted with a phone call.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Virginian

Next time it happens, and it will, maybe with another supplier, but all people make mistakes, go to the Post office, receive the item, THEN ship it back insured with a tracking number and hold onto that number. Also, ask the shipper to give you a return authorization number, and a UPS call number (but some will not pay the freight).
I just knew no post office could be trusted with a phone call.

You have said it right. Get the return authorization and send it back with a return receipt to show they received it.

This problem is really amplified by the fact it has two nations involved and probably customs. The post office might just have a new layout in the future.

[Pruitt]

I can understand electrolove's frustration - the vendor made a mistake, electrolove made a good-faith effort to correct it, and now the product has apparently disappeared in transit somewhere, and he is screwed. The package could even have arrived at Tony's and been erroneously credited to someone else or stuck on a shelf by someone who was involved in something else when the package arrived, and they simply forgot. Perhaps in his own country the postal workers are generally trustworthy. I know better than to ever trust the Post Office in America.

I hope this can finally work out, but right now electrolove is out $140, and Tony's is probably waiting for the product to be returned so he can issue the appropriate refund. Both parties will probably suffer.

[Anonymous]

I'm not being rude, just telling it like it is. Posting repetitive "Still haven't heard from Tony" messages was getting tiresome.

And you still seem to be in denial about your part in the whole thing - leaving it up to a munchkin in your post office (via a phone call, no less) to return $140 worth of merchandise.

Mike Tennent

[dwRavenstar]

"I didn't even touch this package, just called the post office and explained the situation."

Perhaps the person who packed the track did it correctly and the one who issued the invoice made a mistake. You'd never verified that the wrong track had been shipped and did nothing personally to return it to the hobby shop. If you had opened the package perhaps the whole matter would have been moot. If you had taken it home, made a proper shipping label and then posted it you would have accepted responsibility for tracking and verifying it's proper return.

The hobby shop can't verify that you actually received an improper shipment and neither can you. If they had sent an email stating that they had never shipped anything and yet the package had arrived on your door step you'd think they were idiots. One can only imagine what they are thinking when told the customer didn't even open the shipment to verify its contents. I don't know the Swedi***erm but I can almost hear your local postmaster, as he/she loaded the track into the backseat of his/her car whistling and saying "yeah, right" while thinking of your directions for returning an unaccepted shipment.

Having dealt in retail and product shipment in my checkered past, I don't imagine i would ever tell a dissatisfied customer to return a supposedly mistaken shipment without checking it out first.

"I didn't even touch this package, just called the post office and explained the situation."

Even a journey of a million miles begins with the first step. Some may say you've yet to put down your map and left the house. Good luck and I hope it all turns out to your satisfaction. "Wish I knew the Swedish for that."

Dave (dwRavenstar)

[ARTHILL]

The hobby shop should give you a full refund!!!! Matt Hill

[tutaenui]

Quote
"And you still seem to be in denial about your part in the whole thing - leaving it up to a munchkin in your post office (via a phone call, no less) to return $140 worth of merchandise.

Mike Tennent"



Sorry Mike but you must realise that in many foreign countries the Postal systems have a much better reputation for efficiency than the US post apparently has. Electrolove's action to me is quite reasonable particularly if his PO is a small town one.

[Virginian]

Thanks to this thread, I hope everyone in every country now realizes that anytime you trust anyone else, at anyone's post Office or whatever, with the equivalent of your $140 US, that you have just rolled the dice and you may well be trying to make it the hard way.
Being smart is learning from your mistakes. Being intelligent is also learning from other's mistakes.

[peterjenkinson1956]

when you buy from overseas as i do i have to pay tax on the item when i recieve it ..so.. if i had touched the package and returned it i would have still had to pay for the tax 30%.. it would have been approx $40.00..so by not accepting the item and sending it straight back i save$40..00,,,, perhaps it is the same where electrolove lives... ps i find this topuic good..just like days of our lives...,,peter

[Derailedtoosoon]

Previously having an embroidery business and doing lots of returns to manufacturers, I can tell you this much about returning merchandise to any large business. RULE NUMBER ONE: allways ask for a "RETURN AUTHORIZATION NUMBER" from the retailer, wholesaler or manufacturor and be sure to personally apply the number to the package. Here's the reason. When they receive the package back in the receiving department, without a R.A.N. no one receives the information and the merchandise is generallly replaced in stock and everyone looses; the customer money, the business a good customer. Any number the post office might apply is only for their tracking purposes, not information the business needs to properly credit their customers account. I'm sorry you are learning this lesson the same way I did the first time I returned several hundred dollars worth of sweatshirts. Even though I realized the misstake was mine, I still was angry with the distributor but eventually sent them more orders for merchandise.
I understand your anger, but try to understand the retailers point of view.
I hope someone finds your package and the matter gets resolved favorably.
[banghead]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Sorry Mike but you must realise that in many foreign countries the Postal systems have a much better reputation for efficiency than the US post apparently has. Electrolove's action to me is quite reasonable particularly if his PO is a small town one.

This isn't about the Post Office. This is about a guy who, as dwRavenstar has pointed out, didn't even bother to verify that it WAS the wrong track. Then he told someone else (by phone) to take care of something that was his responsibility. And now he's blaming the hobby shop.

The shop (may have) shipped the wrong track and they have agreed to replace it when he sends back what he got. They've done their part. The blame for the rest of the mess lies elsewhere.

Mike Tennent

[electrolove]

ironpenguin:

Can you please stop your stupid posts now?

Ken at Tony's told me that he did a mistake, he told me that he shipped the wrong track. Is that not enought for you? So why should I bother verifying what I got?

I live in a very little town, where everyone knows everyone. So a phone call to the post office is nothing wrong, that's the way it works here. How can you be so sure that it's the people at my post office that is the ones to blame? It can even be Tony that received it, who knows? Or anyone in between. And it's a fact. The postal system in Sweden is a very good system. No system is perfect but you can't compare the US system to the Swedish.

There is one more reason I did not touch this package. If I had touched it, it had costed me tax as well as someone else stated earlier.

I talked to a lot of people a couple of days ago about this. I was on the phone for several hours trying to sort it out. So it's not true that I have done nothing at all. But as far as I know Tony has done nothing. They didn't even answer my email about the shipping number.

One more thing. There is a lot of 'we' when you are explaining what you think. Remember that it's only your opinion. Not everyones. So stop using the word we all the time.

I thank you for your opinion. But I know what you think about this now so please don't answer.

[Anonymous]

Elecro I agree with you!

People please think before you make a reply!! Electro was posting to make know what happened and for advise on how to handle it not ask for you to slam him and tell him its all his fault and how a company couldnt possible be at fault.

No person or company is perfect and I see no good comming from the harassment to electro over this by a few persons who feel it easy to blame him for doing as he was told. These are only my views so I will not even pretend to speak for anyone else but to you Electro my aplogies for you having to endure this critisism over this issue I hope it works out for you....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: One more thing. There is a lot of 'we' when you are explaining what you think. Remember that it's only your opinion. Not everyones. So stop using the word we all the time.

LOL.

Dude, I haven't used the the word "we" once. Check it out.

Mike Tennent

[palallin]

No, what electrolove wants is sympathy--and revenge: "Let me ruin theis business by causing other people to not buy from the" (don't bother denying it: he has stated that is his goal). The problem is, no matter how chummy he is with the local postman, he screwed up the business side of it. Whatever the guy at Tony did wrong in the shipment, electrolove screwed up the return. If he has to eat the tax, he can complain to his government or start a revolution over it (there is precedent). Otherwise, he simply has to eat it as a cost of doing business overseas.

We (I'll use "we" because my judgment is not mine alone, given the number of posters who agree) are trying to point out to him that his hasty action contributed significantly to the mess in which he finds himself, and, though it may comfort him mightily to smear the business in public (which business, I might add, has no way of defeneding itself), those of us who have dealt with other sides of the issue may sympathize with him, but we'd like to educate him, too, (or at least someone else who might actually pay attention) so he can avoid such a mess in the future.

And the posts are not "stupid": it may be painful to hear that you've screwed up, but that's how you learn. In any case, as the saying goes: "Don't ask the question unless you can stand all the possible answers."

[electrolove]

I will not answer any more questions regarding Tonys before I have heard from them. I do NOT want to be a part of this. I respect everyone, and I love this forum. That's it!

Happy modelling to everyone.

[Anonymous]

Polizi,

With all due respect, please think before YOU reply, or at least review what I've actually written.

I've never said it was all his fault. I've never said Tony's isn't at fault for shipping him the wrong item. I (and others) have pointed out where electrolove contributed to the problem of getting the correct item to him.

Who knows why the track hasn't gotten back to Tony? But it sure as heck isn't Tony's fault! But electrolove keeps slamming them here. That's what bothers me.

Why is Tony's ignoring him? Based on his postings here, I think I can guess.

Mike "Please note the lack of the word we" Tennent

[Anonymous]

Mike, and palallin, quit it. Your aggrevated tone is imho inappropriate.

Electro did nothing wrong, he did what the guys at the store told him to, and yet he is stiffed for $140,-- plus several overseas phone calls. Maybe he was a little too trustful, but the whole trouble has been initiated by Tony´s sending the wrong track. From that point on, Electro simply did what he had been told by Tony´s.

I am aware that ethics seem outdated these days, but to me it seems is is still the moral duty of the store to sort this out, no matter if they (yet) received the stuff or not. This may lose them a few rails, but win them a satisfied customer. The way Tony´s is handling the problem, both sides lose.

When I make mistakes at work, which happens, I feel that it is my obligation to admit it and to solve the problem I have created in a satisfactory way for our clients. No matter what it takes. If I can do it, Tony can do it, too.

Afaik, the Swedish postal service is as efficient as the German one, so Electro may very well be able to prove that he instantly returned the wrong order and sent it back. This should provide enough proof for Tony´s that the raild have been sent back, if he chooses not to trust his customers.

Tom