Alton Junction
Sheldon, Thanks for posting your track plan. I really like the design of the staging in the Cumberland Peninsula section. You are getting a lot bang for your buck with the curved staging and having the 3 tracks loop under and back to “H”. It is an excellent use of the space you allocated. I also like the the use of spiral tunnels to get additional mainline length.
Mark
Henry,
The photobucket test was to see if the picture would still post after first posting it from my general "bucket", then moving it to an album.
Seems it does work, so I can clean up my Photobucket page into better organized albums without any pictures getting "lost".
As for the names, I'll stick to something a little more wife and grandchild friendly.....
Sheldon
Your Photobucket works for the moment.
ATLANTIC CENTRALThe place names all have regional and personal significance
No argument with that, but given that halfway you and Randy Rinker are some Amish towns with very interesting names, you could have gone in that direction.
Better yet, imagine if, in the transition era, those towns were named by Amish who were 'woke' in 2020 style. I like the idea so much I am going to do it. There will be a Genderville and Woketown. My grandmother was born in Frugality PA, which no longer exists, we can rename that Intersectionality.
I have more ideas on the subject, but I don't wish to go on extended moderation again, so I leave it up to the audience to come up with their own woke towns.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
This post is a test of my photo hosting:
Here are the changes adding the coal mine, and naming all the places.
A note about the place names and the layout theme.
The layout does not try in any way to fit into the actual geography of the Mid Atlantic. Its only goal is to be "representitive" of the region.
The place names all have regional and personal significance, and a few relate roughly (very roughly) to the geography of the layout.
But it is all just fiction, there is NO attempt to fit the ATLANTIC CENTRAL into the geography or relationships of actual places or actual trackage of the B&O, C&O or WM.
Your thoughts are welcomed.
With some help from several people who contacted me directly, I have settled on a plan for the coal mine. revised drawings to follow.
Also I have named all the places.......
And added control panel locations......
Now I am working on refining the list of staged trains, and reviewing available structures on hand in an effort to target what additional industries I might add.
ROBERT PETRICK ATLANTIC CENTRAL Yes, there will be east bound loads and west bound empties, on both the WM and the ACR. I am now considering a plan to put the coal mine on the WESTERN MARYLAND line, and I have all the places named. I will be in touch soon. Sheldon Okay, good. The reason I ask is because I know you are working on the idea of adding a coal mine and/or a coal-fired power plant. Do you plan to run the coal trains into the mine proper? or onto the power plant site? entirely or partially? If so, what sort of loading/unloading facilities do you have in mind? Can you find enough space to accommodate either or both? Robert
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Yes, there will be east bound loads and west bound empties, on both the WM and the ACR. I am now considering a plan to put the coal mine on the WESTERN MARYLAND line, and I have all the places named. I will be in touch soon. Sheldon
Yes, there will be east bound loads and west bound empties, on both the WM and the ACR.
I am now considering a plan to put the coal mine on the WESTERN MARYLAND line, and I have all the places named. I will be in touch soon.
Okay, good.
The reason I ask is because I know you are working on the idea of adding a coal mine and/or a coal-fired power plant.
Do you plan to run the coal trains into the mine proper? or onto the power plant site? entirely or partially? If so, what sort of loading/unloading facilities do you have in mind? Can you find enough space to accommodate either or both?
Robert
I am thinking that most of the coal traffic will still be run thru bridge traffic to/from locations off stage. But cars could be switched from the mine, and brought to the main yard via interchange, for movement to off stage destinations.
My latest idea for the mine would be small, and would only generate 15-20 loads per "move". The mine would have three tipple tracks each about 3' long and a passing siding maybe 12' long.
From the early days, well into 1950's, and beyond, Western Maryland and West Virginia were full of small mines. Often vertical shaft mines sometimes tapping mineral rights under other properties. These can be modeled in in just a few square feet with small processing plant/loading tipples.
Often the whole "mining town" was built right there, walking distance from the plant/tipple.
I think the power plant idea is off the table. As you said before, even small ones are huge.
More later,
LINK to SNSR Blog
Doughless The plan is very impressive. At first look, it reminds me a lot of Tony Koester's Allegheny Midland, which was an impressive layout. There's not much help that I can offer.
The plan is very impressive. At first look, it reminds me a lot of Tony Koester's Allegheny Midland, which was an impressive layout.
There's not much help that I can offer.
Douglas, thank you for those very kind words.
- Douglas
Hey Sheldon -
Do you normally run coal drags on your layout? You've mention that typical trains are 30 or 35 cars, but I don't recall any specific description or makeup.
ROBERT PETRICK Hey Sheldon - I have a question regarding staging/storage and how you will implement the idea into your typical operations . . . I see four distinct staging yards, from about 20 to 25 feet long with about 6 to 10 tracks each (plus the large open freight yard and several smaller industry yards). Three are double ended and one is stub ended. Do you have names or designations for these yards? It would be easier for me to relate the written narrative and discussion to the spatial track plan if we could call out the 'Western Maryland' staging or the 'Commonwealth Motors' staging (and see where they are) instead of vaguely referring to ' . . . the yard that runs along the bottom right wall and up the side', or something. Just a suggestion. Also, am I right to assume that the stub end yard that runs up and along the rightmost wall will serve as a fiddle yard in addition to staging and/or storage? Robert
I have a question regarding staging/storage and how you will implement the idea into your typical operations . . .
I see four distinct staging yards, from about 20 to 25 feet long with about 6 to 10 tracks each (plus the large open freight yard and several smaller industry yards). Three are double ended and one is stub ended. Do you have names or designations for these yards? It would be easier for me to relate the written narrative and discussion to the spatial track plan if we could call out the 'Western Maryland' staging or the 'Commonwealth Motors' staging (and see where they are) instead of vaguely referring to ' . . . the yard that runs along the bottom right wall and up the side', or something. Just a suggestion.
Also, am I right to assume that the stub end yard that runs up and along the rightmost wall will serve as a fiddle yard in addition to staging and/or storage?
Yes, lots of things NEED names and agreed the staging yards are at the top of this list.
I am working on names now. They were a low priority when it was just me......
The stub end yard does present the opportunity to be a fiddle yard. In fact that area of the basement will be the workshop.
I only see "fiddle yard work" as something that happens "before an operating session" to stage trains based on train orders and timetables. But again yes, it will be partly out in the open near my workbench.
The three double ended six track yards will generally only hold four trains, two in each direction so as not to block the continuous mainline route.
Trains in the stub end yard will be staged facing out at the beginning of a session, after trains pull out, terminating trains can pull in, and will be turned after the session by backing them around the wye.
More later, I will be in touch. Thanks again for everything.
hon30critter ATLANTIC CENTRAL So yes, I am looking to add a few more sidings/industries, but the desire is to limit their impact on the mainline. Hi Sheldon, Thanks for explaining your operations. I now have a much better understanding of what the primary operations will consist of. I hadn't recognised the potential for switching large cuts of cars from train to train, especially where passenger trains are concerned. Quite frankly, I don't recall studying such a large layout before so I apologise for my lack of understanding. My criticisms were naive. I should have known better! Your operations will be impressive and they will be of a size that most modelers can only dream of. Cheers!! Dave
ATLANTIC CENTRAL So yes, I am looking to add a few more sidings/industries, but the desire is to limit their impact on the mainline.
Hi Sheldon,
Thanks for explaining your operations. I now have a much better understanding of what the primary operations will consist of. I hadn't recognised the potential for switching large cuts of cars from train to train, especially where passenger trains are concerned. Quite frankly, I don't recall studying such a large layout before so I apologise for my lack of understanding. My criticisms were naive. I should have known better! Your operations will be impressive and they will be of a size that most modelers can only dream of.
Cheers!!
Dave
Dave,
Not naive at all, it was a great question, and one I wrestled with while designing the layout.
I resisted the temptation to try and include too much and worked hard to get a correct balance.
And the number of industries is limited as a result.
Two other things I should share here. My previous layout, built on almost the exact same theme, attempted to depict a much larger distance between east and west, including a waterfront industry scene and a coal mine.
As you can see, at this moment the new layout does not include either. I am considering the coal mine.
There is separate idea to built a totally separate waterfront industrial switching layout, not sure if that is going to work out or not.
One other operational note. You may have noticed the cutoffs to the staging in the area behind the yard on the east end and at the interlocking on the west end of the yard.
These have two purposes. They turn the mainline into four dedicated display loops, and during operating sessions they act as the interchange connections with the B&O and C&O. So both freight and passenger trains will come and go from there as well, adding to the yard activity and switching.
And I will add a few more industries, I just want to do it very carefully.
Thanks for the interest and your insightful comments.
ATLANTIC CENTRALSo yes, I am looking to add a few more sidings/industries, but the desire is to limit their impact on the mainline.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter ATLANTIC CENTRAL And without any further delay, here is the track plan: That's impressive Sheldon! ATLANTIC CENTRAL Please offer your comments Okay, here goes: When I designed the track plan for my old club, one of the things I feel that I got wrong was the number and size of the industrial sidings. The plan had two large yards that could easily accomodate several long freight trains but none of the sidings were anywhere near that long. For local freight operations that was fine because there were several destinations that a couple of cars could be delivered to. However, there were no locations that could handle unit trains off of the mainlines. Here is my question: Do you have enough destinations that you can take those trains to that can accommodate larger numbers of cars in a single cut? Certainly with respect to passenger trains that is not a problem. You have several large passenger stations. But what about freight train destinations? I realize that I am asking this question without having a detailed understanding of how the layout will operate. Maybe I'm focused too much on local freight operations. Cheers!! Dave
ATLANTIC CENTRAL And without any further delay, here is the track plan:
That's impressive Sheldon!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Please offer your comments
Okay, here goes:
When I designed the track plan for my old club, one of the things I feel that I got wrong was the number and size of the industrial sidings. The plan had two large yards that could easily accomodate several long freight trains but none of the sidings were anywhere near that long. For local freight operations that was fine because there were several destinations that a couple of cars could be delivered to. However, there were no locations that could handle unit trains off of the mainlines.
Here is my question: Do you have enough destinations that you can take those trains to that can accommodate larger numbers of cars in a single cut? Certainly with respect to passenger trains that is not a problem. You have several large passenger stations. But what about freight train destinations?
I realize that I am asking this question without having a detailed understanding of how the layout will operate. Maybe I'm focused too much on local freight operations.
OK Dave, I think I understand the question.
So first I should explain the basic theory of operation.
Hopefully everyone is clear on the hidden staging. There are 22 mainline train length hidden staging tracks on the ATLANTIC CENTRAL trackage and 3 on the WESTERN MARYLAND trackage.
12 of the ACR staging tracks are "thru" staging, 10 are the stub end yard on the wye.
There are 4 locations where it is expected that trains will be staged in view.
There are some cutoff turnouts (not visible on the plan because we did not show the details of the staging under the passenger terminal) that convert two of the long tracks into 4 short staging tracks.
So, depending on train length, that is either 29 or 31 staged trains. Typical full length freight train 20', or about 35-40 averge cars + motive power. Some tracks are longer.
Since Dave asked about local switching, I will focus there first.
A freight train will arrive at the yard, from the east or west. It will contain cars destined for industries located in or near the city.
As you may have noticed, most of the industries shown so far are located directly off the two yard leads which also function as belt lines to those industries. So the the incoming train will be broken up as needed for delivery of those cars to their respective east and west end belt line industries.
Additionally, cars destined for Commonwealth Motors will be blocked and set up for that local run which requires going out on the main for a short distance.
While setting out these cars, pickups wil be made and returned to the yard for makeup into outbound trains.
Right now there are only industrial sidings for about 25 or 30 cars, not counting the piggyback yard which will hold about 35 to 40 50' and 40' piggyback flats. The piggyback operation is simple, whole trains pull in, get switched into the piggy yard as others get switched out to the main yard for departure.
So I am looking to increase the number of industrial spots a little bit, but I do not want to clutter the mainline with a lot of sidings.
Ideally I would like to have spots for about 10-20 more cars in the urban area.
So Dave, the layout is designed to support industrial switching, but not as a primary focus.
Much of the operations will be bridge traffic that will run thru, or only stop for power changes. Another common operating scheme involves trains that set out only part of their train, and pick up an outbound block of cars.
During a full crew operating session, the mainline traffic will be controlled by a Dispatcher and a simplified version of CTC with signals. The mainline will support as many as three trains in each direction at the same time depending on train length and type.
Passenger operations will be an important factor. Nearly a third of the staged trains will be passenger trains. There will be some switching operations for RPO, express, and a few trains will originate/terminate here, and need switching.
So yes, I am looking to add a few more sidings/industries, but the desire is to limit their impact on the mainline.
ATLANTIC CENTRALAnd without any further delay, here is the track plan:
ATLANTIC CENTRALPlease offer your comments
ROBERT PETRICKMight be a little clearer because you can zoom in and pan around to see the details and read the text and whatnot. Hope this helps.
That helped a lot! Thank you.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Here's a link to a .PDF version of Sheldon's layout.
Atlantic Central Railroad
Might be a little clearer because you can zoom in and pan around to see the details and read the text and whatnot.
Hope this helps.
I am considering adding a coal mine somewhere on the Brunswick peninsula, your thoughts on how and where are welcomed.
Also looking to add a few more general industries without cluttering up the mainline.
Your thoughts?
That is a lot of hidden staging! I can see how you are going to get enough traffic to simulate a heavy use double track mainline.
Robert did a masterful job on the track plan.
And without any further delay, here is the track plan:
So, before I go any farther, we all need to thank our own Robert Petrick here on the forum for taking my hand drawn developement drawings and producing these beautiful CAD images. He has the patience of a saint, and is very skilled.
A few notes:
There are some added details to be worked out, and I will be asking for your suggestions and comments - more on that later.
From anywhere that you stand looking, the layout is viewed as if you are looking north, to your left is west, to your right is east.
The long dimensions of the room are 42'-6" x 38'-3", the squares are 2'.
The dispatchers panel will be in recessed area directly across from the swing bridge scene. Other control panel locations will be added later.
The backdrops shown will not be tall, they will not block a normal person's view across the room. They will generally limit your view of the scene on the other side.
The "zero" track elevation will most likely end up being 36" or 38", making the main yard 40"-42", and the highest track around about 48".
There are some 32" curves in the hidden trackage of the WESTERN MARYLAND, all ACR mainline trackage is 36" radius and above, many curves are well into the mid and high 40's.
Maximum grade - 2%, many are less.
Right now the names on the plan are for reference only, there is no attempt to model actual places.
Feel free to copy and paste the drawing so you can inlarge it as you might need.
Please offer your comments and questions. I will follow up later with some of the things I would like suggestions on.
Thanks to all for your interest,
ATLANTIC CENTRALThe track plan should be ready for electronic publication this week.
Sheldon,
You certainly know how to get us sitting on the edge of our seats and biting our nails!!
Seriously, I'm really looking forward to seeing your plan.
ATLANTIC CENTRALStay tuned.
Standing by...
UPDATE: The track plan should be ready for electronic publication this week.
Your comments will be welcomed, and your input on a few final details will be requested.
Stay tuned.
Progress is good on drawings that will publish well here on the forum.
The more detailed drawings have only required a few changes from the original developement drawing shown above.
Some of the desired staging tracks simply did not fit, so I had a backup plan for that which adds a little more construction complexity, and a little length to the hidden mainline. But we do what we have to do.
Work continues in the basement getting it ready for layout construction.
More soon,
SeeYou190 That is a nice long mainline run. It looks like you have made excellent use of the space. -Kevin
That is a nice long mainline run.
It looks like you have made excellent use of the space.
The visible mainline run is about 250'. There are two view block scenes designed to divide the visible portion into three distict areas, to create a feel of greater distance.
This is done with a single loop helix on each peninsula. The train disappears just long enough to feel like it traveled a while thru unseen country before it reappears on the other side of the view block. But not so long as to make it feel "lost".
The goal is to make the visible 4 scale mile portion feel like 20-25 miles as it leads up to the small city/divison point yard, and then leaves for locations not modeled.
Off stage there will be extensive staging and on stage multiple exits/entrances to staging will simulate various junctions and interchanges.