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A possible scratch build project for richotrain.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 8, 2014 4:25 AM

zstripe

  

Doughless

Build it.

 

Will they come? LOL Laugh

Nothing, further to add....I'm being cool. Cool

Bow

Frank

 

LOL
 
Frank, don't leave me now.  Blame it on Wayne.  He was the first to accuse me of overthinking it, which, of course, I am doing.  That's me.  I overthink everything.
 
But, I have to do this one right, because it could cost well over one hundred in parts to finish what I start.   So, any false start could be costly.
 
No golf for me this coming week with temps only in the 30s, so my plan is to buy one of the DPM kits and experiment with different combinations.  It sure looks like I will have the time inside with the cold temps outside.   Crying
 
Stay tuned....................and be cool.  Cool
 
Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Friday, November 7, 2014 7:33 PM

Doughless

Build it.

 

Will they come? LOL Laugh

Nothing, further to add....I'm being cool. Cool

Bow

Frank

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, November 7, 2014 7:22 PM

Rich:

The cornice adds a lot to the overall balanced appearance. My only suggestion is to substitute another freight door for one of the window sections on the lower floor.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by "JaBear" on Friday, November 7, 2014 1:08 PM

Doughless
Build it.

I will just add as long as you're happy with it.

Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, November 7, 2014 8:23 AM

Build it.

- Douglas

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, November 7, 2014 4:48 AM

I have built several buildings with Walthers modulars, so it sounds like DPM modulars are constructed the same way, using pilasters to join the sections and provide a more finished look.

So, in the photo that follows, I have added pilasters, cornices, and dock to give a better idea of the finished look (before painting) and dimensions.

Thoughts ?

Rich

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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, November 6, 2014 11:35 PM

richhotrain

OK, I am going to try that.  Here is what it should look like.

 

 


As was mentioned previously, I still think that you'll need to add the cornice in order to keep the proportions right. 
And no, I couldn't have done the building in that time, but I'm sure that I could've altered the DPM walls, giving you a bit of a kick-start.  Wink

 

Doughless
Just a technicality since thats a photoshop....stringing DPM modulars together will result in only one vertical pilaster between each section, not two...and you don't place sections together, but leave a gap in between since the pilasters are a bit wide...you'll see. Edit: I just realized that you may not know that the pilasters are applied separately, they are included with the sections, but must be glued on...not a big deal.

 

Adding the pilasters is definitely not a big deal, but the design also offers the opportunity to decrease the width of the wall sections when needed:  simply lop-off the excess, then use a mill- or body-file to create a new flat area onto which the pilaster can be cemented.
I prefer to use solvent cement for anything styrene-to-styrene.  If you do the assembly work on a sheet of glass and use a straightedge, the entire DPM wall can be done pretty much as quickly as you can move your hands.
Likewise for any wall sections which need to be shortened in height by removing a portion and rejoining the upper and lower pieces.  If you don't like the utility knife score-and-snap procedure, use a handsaw to make the cuts, then file or sand to size.  Add a full-width backer strip of 3/4" wide .060" sheet styrene to one piece, with 3/8" cemented to one piece, then add the other portion onto the exposed remaining 3/8" of the backer, cementing it both to the backer and, as a butt joint, to the lower wall section.

This is part of National Grocers on my layout, all made with DPM modular wall sections:


There's nothing at all fancy or complicated about it.  I did add a foundation of .060" styrene, but there's only enough rear wall to support the roof, which itself is braced with strips cut from the .060" sheet:


Wayne

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, November 6, 2014 8:34 PM

Rich:

I think that looks great! It will look even better in person with the single pilasters between each wall section.

Dave

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, November 6, 2014 6:47 PM

richhotrain
 

OK, I am going to try that.  Here is what it should look like.  

 

 

 
Just a technicality since thats a photoshop....stringing DPM modulars together will result in only one vertical pilaster between each section, not two...and you don't place sections together, but leave a gap in between since the pilasters are a bit wide...you'll see.
 
Edit:  I just realized that you may not know that the pilasters are applied separately, they are included with the sections, but must be glued on...not a big deal.
 
Really, if you were able to assemble that bascule bridge several years ago, this will be a piece of cake.
 
I use alternating droplets of glue to hold them together, CA then orange testors.  The CA provides a quick bond so you can work with the wall a bit as it grows, and the testors provides a not so brittle permanent bond.  I also use long styrene strips along the back to tie the sections together.....or save those long sprue trunks from other kits!
 
Wayne's pictures of his projects over the years show a much more stout system of support than I use.

- Douglas

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 6, 2014 5:40 PM

zstripe

 

doctorwayne


While it makes good sense to imagineer the potential problems and devise a plan for the construction process, overthinking things can kill a project before it gets started.  Time to get to work.

 

Wayne

  

Like I also said in one of my posts, I believe you're over thinking this.

Frank

Regarding the notion of  'overthinking' this project, recall that I didn't start this thread, so I am merely reacting to all of the fine replies taking place here.  Stick out tongue

Without the various suggestions being made here, I would be no further along than I was before the thread was started.   Bang Head

So, don't get too impatient.  Be cool !   Cool

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 6, 2014 5:33 PM

Doughless

Guys...why are you making this difficult? 

Use a razor saw or utility knife guided by a metal straight edge, like a ruler.  The mortar line itself will also act as a guide for the saw.

I like to use a razor saw since it seems to remove some of the material as it cuts, as oppossed to a utility knife that pushes the material out of the way.  Also, the length of a razor saw is longer than the module, meaning it won't swim on you when you are trying to cut...it will stay in the mortar groove.

Like Wayne said, they really only need to be scored, then snapped, not cut all the way through.

Rich could probably cut the bottom 10-15 rows of bricks off of the several modules he need to modify in about 15 minutes. 

OK, I am going to try that.  Here is what it should look like.  

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Posted by zstripe on Thursday, November 6, 2014 1:55 PM

richhotrain

 

 
doctorwayne

In the twelve (so far) days this thread has been running, you could have mailed the DPM sections to me, had them cut and re-assemble to your specifications, and mailed back to you for continuation of the project.  Stick out tongue
While it makes good sense to imagineer the potential problems and devise a plan for the construction process, overthinking things can kill a project before it gets started.  Time to get to work - if you run into an unexpected problem, there's lots of help and advice available, as evidenced by the six pages of discussion here.  Looks like lotsa fun.

 

Wayne

 

 

 

Wait a minute, you're telling me that you could have already scratch built that building for me?   Super Angry

 

 

At least had a great head start......Bow Bow

Like I also said in one of my posts, I believe you're over thinking this.

Btw: I said to make Your own miter box and use the saw blade wood blade which is a razor saw xacto blade to make the guide cuts in the miter box. Store bought miter boxes, metal or wood have a wider cut line than homemade. And if it has a tendency to bind when making the cuts, just run the tooth end of the blade through regular home bar soap, instant lube, just wash when done. Old school tip. Another Btw: One control panel has 60 holes in it 4 different sizes....remember I'm a DC user.

Have A Good One

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 6, 2014 1:19 PM

doctorwayne

In the twelve (so far) days this thread has been running, you could have mailed the DPM sections to me, had them cut and re-assemble to your specifications, and mailed back to you for continuation of the project.  Stick out tongue
While it makes good sense to imagineer the potential problems and devise a plan for the construction process, overthinking things can kill a project before it gets started.  Time to get to work - if you run into an unexpected problem, there's lots of help and advice available, as evidenced by the six pages of discussion here.  Looks like lotsa fun.

 

Wayne

 

Wait a minute, you're telling me that you could have already scratch built that building for me?   Super Angry

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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, November 6, 2014 12:37 PM

In the twelve (so far) days this thread has been running, you could have mailed the DPM sections to me, had them cut and re-assemble to your specifications, and mailed back to you for continuation of the project.  Stick out tongue
While it makes good sense to imagineer the potential problems and devise a plan for the construction process, overthinking things can kill a project before it gets started.  Time to get to work - if you run into an unexpected problem, there's lots of help and advice available, as evidenced by the six pages of discussion here.  Looks like lotsa fun.

 

Wayne

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, November 6, 2014 7:52 AM

Guys...why are you making this difficult? 

Use a razor saw or utility knife guided by a metal straight edge, like a ruler.  The mortar line itself will also act as a guide for the saw.

I like to use a razor saw since it seems to remove some of the material as it cuts, as oppossed to a utility knife that pushes the material out of the way.  Also, the length of a razor saw is longer than the module, meaning it won't swim on you when you are trying to cut...it will stay in the mortar groove.

Like Wayne said, they really only need to be scored, then snapped, not cut all the way through.

Rich could probably cut the bottom 10-15 rows of bricks off of the several modules he need to modify in about 15 minutes. 

I use sandpaper to ensure a smooth joint.  I place the paper flat on the bench, then run the bottom of the modular along the sandpaper.  It keeps me from alternating a too heavy or light hand with a file or paper if I try to hand smooth the cut.  Angle the modular on the sandpaper to ensure the angled backcut and a consistent brick reveal.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Thursday, November 6, 2014 5:50 AM

zstripe
don't recall ever seeing that brand in the US. That's from the UK, is it not?

I hadn’t really thought about it Frank but yes Perspex is a UK Brand name, you may know it as Plexiglas in the States. Used a lot for aircraft windows and canopies, especially in the pre-pressurisation days.  As a rule of thumb, Lexan is comparably tougher and thinner but is not allowed as a substitute for Perspex.
Cheers, the Bear.

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 6, 2014 5:50 AM

zstripe

Shoot, Rich, I would make my own miter box. Piece of square #1,1x3/1x4 grade pine, two pieces of 3/4x3/4 parting stop. Glue to 1x3/1x4 use a right angle square, cut with the saw you are going to use, right through both pieces of parting stop and Your box is done.

Cody Grivno:'' So let's get started.''

LOL

Frank

 

Ugh, I have used store bought wood miter boxes, but I never had much luck with them.  After a few uses, you can no longer make straight cuts with them.  I much prefer a metal miter box.

That said, cutting so many pieces of DPM modulars is not for the faint of heart.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 6, 2014 5:47 AM

I wrap a thin strip of masking tape around the reamer at the point where I want to stop reaming in order to ensure the properly sized diameter hole.

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Thursday, November 6, 2014 5:43 AM

Rich,

Yeah the panel had about three different size holes, it was doing fine....until I lowered the speed. I use a rat tail file, I found it to be easier, a reamer will also crack it if not careful.

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 6, 2014 5:36 AM

I have used Lexan for my control panels.  I use a hobby saw to cut it, usually but not always works.

When I drill holes in Lexan, I use a small drill bit for pilot holes, then ream it the larger opening.  If you start out with a larger drill bill, the Lexan cracks into star-shaped designs which, of course, wrecks that particular piece of Lexan.

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Thursday, November 6, 2014 5:25 AM

Bear,

I don't recall ever seeing that brand in the US. That's from the UK, is it not?

Sounds like the stuff we had at the Chgo Boy's club moon's ago. Had a peculiar smell to it when cut.

Frank

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Posted by "JaBear" on Thursday, November 6, 2014 5:13 AM

zstripe
I had to drill many holes on one of my controls panels made from Lexan.

Off Topic There are proper drill bits with the correct cutting angle for drilling Perspex, I’ve never seen one in my life and was taught by a very experienced old-timer to get a brand new standard drill bit and dull it by very quickly drilling into the concert hanger floor before using it to drill the perspex. I’m not really into tempting fate, but it has worked out OK for me over the years.

Cheers, the Bear. 

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by zstripe on Thursday, November 6, 2014 5:12 AM

Shoot, Rich, I would make my own miter box. Piece of square #1,1x3/1x4 grade pine, two pieces of 3/4x3/4 parting stop. Glue to 1x3/1x4 use a right angle square, cut with the saw you are going to use, right through both pieces of parting stop and Your box is done.

Cody Grivno:'' So let's get started.''

LOL

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 6, 2014 5:00 AM

Although the various individual sections of DPM Modulars come in different heights, as previously described, all of the individual sections are 2 11/16 inches wide.  The sections are made of styrene plastic.

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Thursday, November 6, 2014 4:46 AM

I don't know how flat those DPM, pieces are so don't know how what I did will work. I had to cut 2inch and three inch pieces from the dock foundations, so when butted together, they would form an almost seamless line, so the buildings would be flush against one another. They are 5 1/4 inch wide and 1/2 around perimeter to form the foundation. After taking all my measurements about three times. I settled on using my Xacto wood saw which is 5 1/2 inches long and 1 1/4 wide. I then clamped a stainless steel 6'' long ruler with miniature c-clamps in three different places, Made a homemade jig to rest it on, out of scrap 1x3'' and used the ruler as a guide to keep the cut straight. Being very careful to make the first couple of passes across the length of the cut. Then I just carefully continued to cut, all the way through, ( on certain projects and materials, I don't believe in cut and snap) letting the saw do the work. I made all the cuts I needed and matched them up and they were all great, hardly had to dress the cuts at all. But I am an exstremely patient man when it comes to things and that helps considerably. That wood saw, actually works like a plastic scriber on the backward pull, so it cuts pretty fast. I have cut Walthers brick sheet street system's the same way and they are about .050'' thick.

''Be Happy in Your Work'' LOL.

Frank

Btw: Love the smell of burnt Lexan Plastic on a 10'' table saw. It's a good thing it does melt at the cut line, for if it didn't....it would crack. I had to drill many holes on one of my controls panels made from Lexan. I was using my shop drill press at mid speed probably 700 rpm. I decided to lower the speed so I would not have to sand so much,,,Wrong, the slower speed tried to cut too deep too fast and the bit cracked the panel,after 3/4 of the holes drilled, it was trash. The melting actually lubed the cut.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Thursday, November 6, 2014 4:41 AM
I’ve only seen some packets Walthers  and DPM Modulars quite a while back in the no longer LHS, and have never seen theTichy or Grandt Line detail parts so I won’t make any comments about their suitability  or workability as I don’t know what I’d be talking about. ( Hmm, is that a surprise?)
zstripeI don't believe the second floor was for freight storage, mainly because I don't see any elevator lift house on the roof, which would contain the pully's and lift mechanism for the elevator. 
With the second story portion of the freight house being 288’ long x 60’ wide =17280 square feet  of second story, even taking into account stair wells, walls etc, seems a whole lot of office space to me.  Though it would be interesting to see in the pre-computer era how much paper work and staff were required to generate it to keep track of all the inbound goods. (Though it seems to me that computer systems haven’t cut down on the amount of paper required as they were supposed to.)
Could an internal rail mounted gantry crane been used to lift goods to the second floor?
Going back to my original post,..... Anyhow if I was using my drawing, I would use 2 of the two story 6 panel sections and 3 of the 6 panel single story sections which would give a building length of 46.25”
As I don’t know the actual size of the DPM modulars, these dimensions will probably change.
Cheers, the Bear.
EDIT.  My tentative plan is to buy one of the DPM kits that contains a large number of modular sections, including all of the varieties that we have been talking about.
Yeah that’s a good idea Rich, then you can have a play to see how things look, I must admit to practice seeing is believing.

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 6, 2014 4:33 AM

To me, cutting each and every piece of DPM modulars is just one step short of outright scratch building - - - time consuming and fraught with risk of bad cuts.

My tentative plan is to buy one of the DPM kits that contains a large number of modular sections, including all of the varieties that we have been talking about.

That way, before even gluing parts together, I can temporarily assemble different combinations to see what looks best.

In spite of admonitions to the contrary, I am tempted to combine the lower story deck section with the 2-story upper section. I know that goes against the common wisdom, but doing that sure creates a more prototypical look, at least regarding vertical separation of the windows.

Rich

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, November 6, 2014 12:30 AM

Wayne:

"...table saw and panel blade..." I smell melting plastic. Somebody get a fire extinguisher!!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughLaugh

I hate using my radial arm saw for delicate work, so I don't do it anymore.Off Topic

Dave

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, November 5, 2014 11:53 PM

I'd use a utility knife to cut the wall sections, a simple score (well, probably several) and snap procedure.  Make the cut one course of bricks away from the desired line, then use a mill file to dress the edge to the mortar line.  If you have a table saw and a panel blade, you could try that.


Wayne

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, November 5, 2014 8:52 PM

Rich:

It looks like if you want to have both floors the same height you are going to have to cut an inch off the bottom of the 2 story wall sections. Getting a perfect cut along the mortor lines will be tedious indeed. Do you by any chance have an old fashioned manual miter box that is big enough to hold the wall sections? If so, you might be able to clamp a 'stop' to the bed of the miter saw so all your cuts are exactly the same. If you don't have a miter saw you might consider cutting a little bit off the desired line and filing the wall to the right height. Even more tedious!

Keep us posted. This has been a very interesting thread. Thanks JaBear, Rich and others.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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