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Tight frog area.

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Posted by Paul_in_GA on Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:54 AM

richhotrain

Paul_in_GA

Exactly.  I used a bright light and a magnifying glass to look at it while it does it.  Like I said, I set it to 0 and keep an eye on the light.  If I wiggle the FORWARD truck, the one NOT on the insulated part of the frog the light comes on and goes off AS I wiggle it.

Paul, I'm not sure what you mean by the bright light.  Was is it you are referring to?

Rich

Flashlight so bright it will literally blind a person.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:58 AM

Paul_in_GA

richhotrain

Paul_in_GA

Exactly.  I used a bright light and a magnifying glass to look at it while it does it.  Like I said, I set it to 0 and keep an eye on the light.  If I wiggle the FORWARD truck, the one NOT on the insulated part of the frog the light comes on and goes off AS I wiggle it.

Paul, I'm not sure what you mean by the bright light.  Was is it you are referring to?

Rich

Flashlight so bright it will literally blind a person.

LOL

Oh, that kind of bright light.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:59 AM

Paul_in_GA

OK, I'm in the process of running it through every turnout and it stuck again on another Walthers #5 RH going straight!  So it's NOT the track it HAS to be that #$%^&*#@ loco!

Just gotta run it at 2 or higher.

This is the second Bachmann I have had problems with.

Before you give up on speed step #1, lube the gears and see if that solves the problem.

Rich

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Posted by Paul_in_GA on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:00 PM

richhotrain

Paul_in_GA

OK, I'm in the process of running it through every turnout and it stuck again on another Walthers #5 RH going straight!  So it's NOT the track it HAS to be that #$%^&*#@ loco!

Just gotta run it at 2 or higher.

This is the second Bachmann I have had problems with.

Before you give up on speed step #1, lube the gears and see if that solves the problem.

Rich

Stuck at THIRD Walthers frog on the straight!

I'd LIKE to lube it but I don't have any lube and have never done it before.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:01 PM

You can also mess with the CV settings to kick start the motor at lower speeds.

Rich

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Posted by Paul_in_GA on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:04 PM

richhotrain

You can also mess with the CV settings to kick start the motor at lower speeds.

Rich

Now it even hiccups at that original point at a setting of 10!  So maybe it IS the track but then again the other locos are fine there.

ARGH!!  Angry

Ready for sledgehammer!  Angry Angry

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:11 PM

Paul_in_GA

richhotrain

Paul_in_GA

OK, I'm in the process of running it through every turnout and it stuck again on another Walthers #5 RH going straight!  So it's NOT the track it HAS to be that #$%^&*#@ loco!

Just gotta run it at 2 or higher.

This is the second Bachmann I have had problems with.

Before you give up on speed step #1, lube the gears and see if that solves the problem.

Rich

Stuck at THIRD Walthers frog on the straight!

I'd LIKE to lube it but I don't have any lube and have never done it before.

It is as complicated as putting toothpaste on a toothbrush.

Your LHS will have the appropriate gear lube.

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:12 PM

Paul_in_GA

richhotrain

Paul_in_GA

OK, I'm in the process of running it through every turnout and it stuck again on another Walthers #5 RH going straight!  So it's NOT the track it HAS to be that #$%^&*#@ loco!

Just gotta run it at 2 or higher.

This is the second Bachmann I have had problems with.

Before you give up on speed step #1, lube the gears and see if that solves the problem.

Rich

Stuck at THIRD Walthers frog on the straight!

I'd LIKE to lube it but I don't have any lube and have never done it before.

Put a light coat of petroleum jelly on the frogs.  Just use a stick of lip balm.

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by selector on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:12 PM

The other locos are 'other' locos.  Different.  Apparently/possibly better at pickup and getting across spots that have iffy connectivity.  Longer steamers do better than your little 2-8-0.

I take it that you have metered the rails at the point of stall? Ahead of the loco, under it, under the tender, and behind the tender.  If you find a dead spot, press down somewhere on the rails ahead, under, and behind the loco/tender.  If you get power, then it is in the turnout or on either end of it.

The suggestion to figgle with 'dither' or BEMF settings is a good one.  Maybe your motor stalls at a point where the voltage is low when you only run it at very slow speeds across this one turnout.  You'll have to get into the CV manual for the decoder to figure out how to get the motor to draw more current than it does at speed step 'one'.

Crandell

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:13 PM

Paul_in_GA

richhotrain

You can also mess with the CV settings to kick start the motor at lower speeds.

Rich

Now it even hiccups at that original point at a setting of 10!  So maybe it IS the track but then again the other locos are fine there.

ARGH!!  Angry

Ready for sledgehammer!  Angry Angry

Head for the beer cooler or wine cellar or wherever you store your best scotch.

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by Paul_in_GA on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:15 PM

selector

The other locos are 'other' locos.  Different.  Apparently/possibly better at pickup and getting across spots that have iffy connectivity.  Longer steamers do better than your little 2-8-0.

I take it that you have metered the rails at the point of stall? Ahead of the loco, under it, under the tender, and behind the tender.  If you find a dead spot, press down somewhere on the rails ahead, under, and behind the loco/tender.  If you get power, then it is in the turnout or on either end of it.

The suggestion to figgle with 'dither' or BEMF settings is a good one.  Maybe your motor stalls at a point where the voltage is low when you only run it at very slow speeds across this one turnout.  You'll have to get into the CV manual for the decoder to figure out how to get the motor to draw more current than it does at speed step 'one'.

Crandell

Thanks Crandell, will try that too.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:15 PM

selector

The other locos are 'other' locos.  Different.  Apparently/possibly better at pickup and getting across spots that have iffy connectivity.  Longer steamers do better than your little 2-8-0.

I take it that you have metered the rails at the point of stall? Ahead of the loco, under it, under the tender, and behind the tender.  If you find a dead spot, press down somewhere on the rails ahead, under, and behind the loco/tender.  If you get power, then it is in the turnout or on either end of it.

The suggestion to figgle with 'dither' or BEMF settings is a good one.  Maybe your motor stalls at a point where the voltage is low when you only run it at very slow speeds across this one turnout.  You'll have to get into the CV manual for the decoder to figure out how to get the motor to draw more current than it does at speed step 'one'.

Crandell

Or put a helper loco behind that 2-8-0.  Laugh

Alton Junction

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Posted by Paul_in_GA on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:17 PM

richhotrain

Paul_in_GA

richhotrain

Paul_in_GA

OK, I'm in the process of running it through every turnout and it stuck again on another Walthers #5 RH going straight!  So it's NOT the track it HAS to be that #$%^&*#@ loco!

Just gotta run it at 2 or higher.

This is the second Bachmann I have had problems with.

Before you give up on speed step #1, lube the gears and see if that solves the problem.

Rich

Stuck at THIRD Walthers frog on the straight!

I'd LIKE to lube it but I don't have any lube and have never done it before.

Put a light coat of petroleum jelly on the frogs.  Just use a stick of lip balm.

 

How will that help?  Won't that impede current flow?  Do I put it on the rails or on the base of the frog?

I would like some scotch but I stopped drinking a long time ago.  But I can have a virtual beer.  Beer

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:19 PM

If you just put the petroleum jelly on the dead parts of the frog, it won't affect conductivity but might be enough to overcome any physical resistance by the loco at slow speeds.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by wp8thsub on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:20 PM

Paul_in_GA
So maybe it IS the track but then again the other locos are fine there.

...Ready for sledgehammer!  

As has already been mentioned, the turnout in question (I have a few Walthers 83 turnouts also) has a large dead frog area.  Any loco with finicky power pickup can stall on the frog, despite being able to apparently run just fine elsewhere.  My money is on the locomotive losing contact being the problem due to an intermittent open circuit in its power pickup, but this isn't necessarily something you have to correct.

Nobody so far has suggested this possible solution that I could see, so here goes...

My suggestion is to power the frog using a Tam Valley "Frog Juicer."  http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/products/dccpowerfrogjuicers.html  Solder a feeder to one side of the frog, being careful to not melt any plastic, and run the feeder to the juicer, which takes input current from the track bus.  Installation is that simple.  The juicer is an auto-reversing curcuit that powers the frog for the appropriate polarity depending on which direction you're running through the turnout.  I have juicers on some turnouts with larger isolated frogs and they cured the few instances of stalling I had.  Follow the link - the mono-juicer (for one turnout) is on sale through Monday for $9.95.  I just about guarantee it will solve your problem.

Rob Spangler

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:22 PM

wp8thsub

Nobody so far has suggested this possible solution that I could see, so here goes...

My suggestion is to power the frog using a Tam Valley "Frog Juicer." 

Rob, I hate you, LOL, just kidding.  Darn, I wanted to suggest that but didn't.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by selector on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:22 PM

If there really is just a tad of resistance at the frog, and not of the electrical kind, then the CV-fiddling for the motor would probably help.  However, I would not entertain the thought of putting a grease or vaseline anywhere on my tracks, not even the flange face, for scale trains.

BTW, is this a sound locomotive?

Crandell

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Posted by Paul_in_GA on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:25 PM

wp8thsub

Paul_in_GA
So maybe it IS the track but then again the other locos are fine there.

...Ready for sledgehammer!  

As has already been mentioned, the turnout in question (I have a few Walthers 83 turnouts also) has a large dead frog area.  Any loco with finicky power pickup can stall on the frog, despite being able to apparently run just fine elsewhere.  My money is on the locomotive losing contact being the problem due to an intermittent open circuit in its power pickup, but this isn't necessarily something you have to correct.

Nobody so far has suggested this possible solution that I could see, so here goes...

My suggestion is to power the frog using a Tam Valley "Frog Juicer."  http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/products/dccpowerfrogjuicers.html  Solder a feeder to one side of the frog, being careful to not melt any plastic, and run the feeder to the juicer, which takes input current from the track bus.  Installation is that simple.  The juicer is an auto-reversing curcuit that powers the frog for the appropriate polarity depending on which direction you're running through the turnout.  I have juicers on some turnouts with larger isolated frogs and they cured the few instances of stalling I had.  Follow the link - the mono-juicer (for one turnout) is on sale through Monday for $9.95.  I just about guarantee it will solve your problem.

Thanks Rob, looking into it now.  How do you wire it up?  Just one wire to the frog?  Does it come with installation instructions?

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Posted by Paul_in_GA on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:26 PM

selector

If there really is just a tad of resistance at the frog, and not of the electrical kind, then the CV-fiddling for the motor would probably help.  However, I would not entertain the thought of putting a grease or vaseline anywhere on my tracks, not even the flange face, for scale trains.

BTW, is this a sound locomotive?

Crandell

Nope, no sound.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:27 PM

How about a light smear from a silicone stick?

It is just a test to see if you can eliminate the physical resistance.

Then wipe it off.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:28 PM

Or use some plastic compatible light oil - - - anything - - - just to see if you can reduce the resistance.

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:29 PM

Paul_in_GA

selector

BTW, is this a sound locomotive?

Crandell

Nope, no sound.

What did you have in mind there, Crandell?

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by Paul_in_GA on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:35 PM

richhotrain

Or use some plastic compatible light oil - - - anything - - - just to see if you can reduce the resistance.

All I have is some old 3-In-One oil which I am loathe to use.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:38 PM

Paul_in_GA

All I have is some old 3-In-One oil which I am loathe to use.

Remain loathe.

Use only plastic compatible light oil.

Although, as a test, I would not be reluctant to use a silicone stick or petroleum jelly.  Then wipe it off.

We are just trying to determine if it will ease the resistance enough to prevent stalling at the slowest speeds.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Paul_in_GA on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:42 PM

richhotrain

Paul_in_GA

All I have is some old 3-In-One oil which I am loathe to use.

Remain loathe.

Use only plastic compatible light oil.

Although, as a test, I would not be reluctant to use a silicone stick or petroleum jelly.  Then wipe it off.

We are just trying to determine if it will ease the resistance enough to prevent stalling at the slowest speeds.

Rich

Well, I have no silicone, could use vaseline, BUT, it still stalls slightly even at higher power settings but only on that one switch.  I guess it's a poor design of either the track or the loco, ESPECIALLY the loco.  Two Bachmann's with problems.  Sent in the 44 tonner and STILL haven't heard back from those people. I will never buy Bachmann again.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:45 PM

Paul_in_GA

richhotrain

Paul_in_GA

All I have is some old 3-In-One oil which I am loathe to use.

Remain loathe.

Use only plastic compatible light oil.

Although, as a test, I would not be reluctant to use a silicone stick or petroleum jelly.  Then wipe it off.

We are just trying to determine if it will ease the resistance enough to prevent stalling at the slowest speeds.

Rich

Well, I have no silicone, could use vaseline, BUT, it still stalls slightly even at higher power settings but only on that one switch.

Hmm, I thought it only stalled at the slowest speed step?

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:46 PM

Paul_in_GA

I will never buy Bachmann again.

LOL

While I feel the same way, others don't.  Sheldon?

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:48 PM

Incidentally, I checked and petroleum jelly is totally compatible with plastics and synthetic rubbers.

Rich

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Posted by Paul_in_GA on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:48 PM

richhotrain

Paul_in_GA

richhotrain

Paul_in_GA

All I have is some old 3-In-One oil which I am loathe to use.

Remain loathe.

Use only plastic compatible light oil.

Although, as a test, I would not be reluctant to use a silicone stick or petroleum jelly.  Then wipe it off.

We are just trying to determine if it will ease the resistance enough to prevent stalling at the slowest speeds.

Rich

Well, I have no silicone, could use vaseline, BUT, it still stalls slightly even at higher power settings but only on that one switch.

Hmm, I thought it only stalled at the slowest speed step?

Nope, I posted earlier that at that same spot it now stalls for a second and the light goes out even at a setting of 10.  I'm ready to use vaseline, should I still use it?  I can apply a tiny amount with a toothpick.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:50 PM

Just smear it on lightly with your finger.

 

Alton Junction

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