I would also add weight to the tender right over the trucks.
And, I would play with the trucks, tightening and loosening the screws that hold the trucks to the tender chassis to see if that will help.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain I would also add weight to the tender right over the trucks. And, I would play with the trucks, tightening and loosening the screws that hold the trucks to the tender chassis to see if that will help. Rich
Good advice Brad and Rich. I will check with the gauge right now and check the trucks.
As for adding weight, well, I took it apart when I first got it and installed a decoder. Now it's so tight you couldn't fit a fart in there let alone weight.
Here is another long shot thought.
You mention that at the slowest speeds, the rear truck of the tender stalls on the frog.
Is the front truck actually receiving power.
Yours is a steam engine, but I have had more than one diesel where only one truck is picking up power, resulting in stalls at slow speeds over the frog where the one truck picking up power is riding slowly over a dead frog. That would explain no stalls at higher speeds where the loco coasts over dead spots without stalling.
To test that, move the loco to a straight section of track and run it at the slowest speed. The lift up the rear portion of the tender and see if the loco is still receiving power from the front truck.
Paul_in_GA richhotrain I would also add weight to the tender right over the trucks. And, I would play with the trucks, tightening and loosening the screws that hold the trucks to the tender chassis to see if that will help. Rich Good advice Brad and Rich. I will check with the gauge right now and check the trucks. As for adding weight, well, I took it apart when I first got it and installed a decoder. Now it's so tight you couldn't fit a fart in there let alone weight.
How about under the tender using steel brake weights?
richhotrain Paul_in_GA richhotrain I would also add weight to the tender right over the trucks. And, I would play with the trucks, tightening and loosening the screws that hold the trucks to the tender chassis to see if that will help. Rich Good advice Brad and Rich. I will check with the gauge right now and check the trucks. As for adding weight, well, I took it apart when I first got it and installed a decoder. Now it's so tight you couldn't fit a fart in there let alone weight. How about under the tender using steel brake weights? Rich
OK, where do I get these weights and how do I install them?
Brad, I just checked with the gauge and they're perfect.
Rich, trucks seem fine, because of the way they're made there is a little slop to them despite how tight I make the screws.
And I had also did what you mentioned. All the wheels are picking up power. I did this:
First I tried your suggestion about lifting the wheels, was OK. Then I removed the loco from the track and clipped alligator clips to the rails then touched every wheel combination and they all make the wheels move so there's no dead wheels.
It ONLY does this at 1. Not 2 or higher. I have no idea what's going on. If I push down on the tender or the track in the slightest it'll move. It HAS to be something not allowing the forward truck to get power at such a slow speed.
cjcrescent Paul_in_GA Well it kinda makes it clear but what ones are the points and where is the insulation spots between the frog? I'll print it out and compare it to the turnout, I also need to look at a diagram I have in a book about definitions, like stock rails. I'm a newbie at this, I can do it I just don't want to mess it up. Here's another drawing, with the parts labeled. I have this time included the approximate location of the gaps that make the frog a non-powered one. The rest of the parts are also labeled, and just for simplicity, I called one side + and the other -. They are also colored to show the electrical relationship of the parts to each other. You can either "replace" the jumpers as I said in my earlier posts or substitute feeders. Since the problem only seems to be happening when you attempt to go thru the turnout along the "straight" side, I would suggest that you add the feeder approximately where the circle is. You could of course add all new jumpers in the approximate locations shown on the drawing, as I originally suggested in my original answer. Adding just the one feeder would be easiest.
Paul_in_GA Well it kinda makes it clear but what ones are the points and where is the insulation spots between the frog? I'll print it out and compare it to the turnout, I also need to look at a diagram I have in a book about definitions, like stock rails. I'm a newbie at this, I can do it I just don't want to mess it up.
Well it kinda makes it clear but what ones are the points and where is the insulation spots between the frog?
I'll print it out and compare it to the turnout, I also need to look at a diagram I have in a book about definitions, like stock rails. I'm a newbie at this, I can do it I just don't want to mess it up.
Here's another drawing, with the parts labeled. I have this time included the approximate location of the gaps that make the frog a non-powered one. The rest of the parts are also labeled, and just for simplicity, I called one side + and the other -. They are also colored to show the electrical relationship of the parts to each other. You can either "replace" the jumpers as I said in my earlier posts or substitute feeders.
Since the problem only seems to be happening when you attempt to go thru the turnout along the "straight" side, I would suggest that you add the feeder approximately where the circle is. You could of course add all new jumpers in the approximate locations shown on the drawing, as I originally suggested in my original answer.
Adding just the one feeder would be easiest.
Carey, this helps a LOT. Thanks. I might just add feeders as I have a 4 x 8 and it's powered by only one set of wires soldered to the track on the opposite side. Still have not had a chance to put the VOM on it but I doubt I'd find anything because just touching it with the leads will be enough to make it work if it is indeed a bad set of wires under the track.
It works on setting 2 and higher , just not 1. So I'm not sure what it is.
Now, we are going to really get basic.
Are the rails on the curved turnout clean?
richhotrain Now, we are going to really get basic. Are the rails on the curved turnout clean? Rich
Yes, I sanded them with 400 then 1200, then wiped them down.
Adhesive wheel weights are small flat steel weights, usually weighing 1/4 ounce each, that have double sided tape attached to them. You can buy them at any automotive supply store.
richhotrain Adhesive wheel weights are small flat steel weights, usually weighing 1/4 ounce each, that have double sided tape attached to them. You can buy them at any automotive supply store. Rich
Thanks Rich but I don't know if even THAT will help because if I put a heavy flashlight on the tender it will STILL stop. So it's looking more and more like a track electrical problem.
This is making me
If there are any doubts about power reaching every segment of rail, you can take two lengths of household wire like 14 gauge wire and make your own temporary jumpers.
I have two 5 inch lengths with the plastic insulation stripped off each end.
Each length is bent in a U-shape.
I hold each length of wire against a known powered section of rail and the other end to the problem piece of rail.
That is sufficient to transfer power to the unpowered section of track if indeed it is unpowered.
With those two lengths held in place, the loco will pass through if lack of power is the problem.
Paul_in_GA richhotrain Adhesive wheel weights are small flat steel weights, usually weighing 1/4 ounce each, that have double sided tape attached to them. You can buy them at any automotive supply store. Rich Thanks Rich but I don't know if even THAT will help because if I put a heavy flashlight on the tender it will STILL stop. So it's looking more and more like a track electrical problem. This is making me
I agree. I am giving up on the weights.
I also have my doubts that the loco is at fault.
I am focusing from afar on the curved turnout.
richhotrain If there are any doubts about power reaching every segment of rail, you can take two lengths of household wire like 14 gauge wire and make your own temporary jumpers. I have two 5 inch lengths with the plastic insulation stripped off each end. Each length is bent in a U-shape. I hold each length of wire against a known powered section of rail and the other end to the problem piece of rail. That is sufficient to transfer power to the unpowered section of track if indeed it is unpowered. With those two lengths held in place, the loco will pass through if lack of power is the problem. Rich
Will try this as soon as I get a chance. I have the schematic as to where to place the wire. I can use lengths of wire with alligator clips attached to make it easier.
I also keep a small 12 volt incandescent bulb on hand with a pair of thin gauge stranded wire attached to the bulb, one on the side and one on the base.
I use this bulb to test for power.
You can move the two wires around to find power losses where the bulb does not light when the wires touch the rails.
This can be useful in finding a loss of power on rail segments on a turnout.
Paul_in_GA Will try this as soon as I get a chance. I have the schematic as to where to place the wire. I can use lengths of wire with alligator clips attached to make it easier.
That will work too.
There are lots of primitive ways to test for power or loss thereof.
I do this after relocating double crossovers. Sometimes, after moving and relocating specialty tracks and turnouts, a loss of power is common due to the delicate nature of the jumpers underneath the turnout.
RIch
Swap the tender trucks. If the rear truck still does what it did when it was the front truck, it might be the culprit.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
steemtrayn Swap the tender trucks. If the rear truck still does what it did when it was the front truck, it might be the culprit.
It's starting to look like that. I let it run on 1 till it stops.
Turn it to 0 but keep the light on.
The SLIGHTEST pressure, almost blowing on the tender will make the light come on and go off.
Only one problem. I am not good at swapping trucks, especially wired ones. Do I have to desolder the wires and resolder them?
Rich, I tried the alligator clips and put power to everywhere around that point with no help.
Also, why does this only happen at 1 and not 2 or higher? I mean, I'll never use it at 1 on that curve but methinks there's still a problem.
Without swapping the trucks, just run it in forward and reverse on the first speed step. If ti stalls either way, it is not one of the trucks unless it is both trucks.
Stalling at slow speeds but running through at higher speeds doesn't tell you much because it could be coasting through without power.
Paul_in_GA Rich, I tried the alligator clips and put power to everywhere around that point with no help.
OK, so there is power on every point of that turnout.
I went down and looked at my 7.5 curved turnout. That dead frog occupies a large area and that tender wheelbase is really small. It may just be that there is a complete loss of power as both trucks sit on the frog.
Position the loco on the turnout so that both trucks are on the frog, Is any portion of either truck on powered rails?
You may have to settle for running at step 2 or higher.
richhotrain Paul_in_GA Rich, I tried the alligator clips and put power to everywhere around that point with no help. OK, so there is power on every point of that turnout. I went down and looked at my 7.5 curved turnout. That dead frog occupies a large area and that tender wheelbase is really small. It may just be that there is a complete loss of power as both trucks sit on the frog. Position the loco on the turnout so that both trucks are on the frog, Is any portion of either truck on powered rails? You may have to settle for running at step 2 or higher. Rich
Thanks Rich, you've been a great help.
I just tried THIS:
I ran it forward at 1, it stops.
I ran it backwards at 1, no problem.
Then I turned the loco completely around and tried it.
Now it'll stop in the same spot when in forward direction but physically turned around. But it is intermittent.
Interesting, Detective Paul.
I wonder if the gears need a little lube. Myabe there is just enough resistance at the lowest speeds to hold it up. That could explain why it doesn't stall in reverse.
For what it is worth, and I know not what, does it stall moving through the outer curve, or inner curve, or both curves?
Paul_in_GA I ran it forward at 1, it stops. I ran it backwards at 1, no problem. Then I turned the loco completely around and tried it. Now it'll stop in the same spot when in forward direction but physically turned around. But it is intermittent.
So, it only stalls in the forward direction at the slowest speed.
At what point?
When the rear tender truck reaches the frog?
richhotrain For what it is worth, and I know not what, does it stall moving through the outer curve, or inner curve, or both curves? Rich
LOL! Detective! Thanks Rich, that's how I would troubleshoot jets. Try everything using logic and taking notes.
Nope, only the outer curve, nowhere else on the layout. But now I'm gonna go back and DOUBLE check that, both ways!
richhotrain Paul_in_GA I ran it forward at 1, it stops. I ran it backwards at 1, no problem. Then I turned the loco completely around and tried it. Now it'll stop in the same spot when in forward direction but physically turned around. But it is intermittent. So, it only stalls in the forward direction at the slowest speed. At what point? When the rear tender truck reaches the frog? Rich
Exactly. I used a bright light and a magnifying glass to look at it while it does it. Like I said, I set it to 0 and keep an eye on the light. If I wiggle the FORWARD truck, the one NOT on the insulated part of the frog the light comes on and goes off AS I wiggle it.
You mentioned that the stall is only on the outer curve.
How about the guard rail opposite the frog next to the outer stock rail?
Is the guard rail level with the stock rail, not raised above it?
Are the ends of the guard rail sharp? Sometimes, you have to file them slightly to get them a little bit rounded. The ends of the guard rail could be lifting the truck.
Paul_in_GA Exactly. I used a bright light and a magnifying glass to look at it while it does it. Like I said, I set it to 0 and keep an eye on the light. If I wiggle the FORWARD truck, the one NOT on the insulated part of the frog the light comes on and goes off AS I wiggle it.
Paul, I'm not sure what you mean by the bright light. Was is it you are referring to?
richhotrain You mentioned that the stall is only on the outer curve. How about the guard rail opposite the frog next to the outer stock rail? Is the guard rail level with the stock rail, not raised above it? Are the ends of the guard rail sharp? Sometimes, you have to file them slightly to get them a little bit rounded. The ends of the guard rail could be lifting the truck. Rich
Fine.
OK, I'm in the process of running it through every turnout and it stuck again on another Walthers #5 RH going straight! So it's NOT the track it HAS to be that #$%^&*#@ loco!
Just gotta run it at 2 or higher.
This is the second Bachmann I have had problems with.