maxman potlatcher: the next time I have the store proprietor's ear, I'm going to let him know that his club buddy is making me less likely to visit his store. I go in there to look at, and sometimes purchase, train stuff, not get a browbeating. While I sympathize, I fail to see why you think it is the proprietor's responsibility to run interference for you.
potlatcher: the next time I have the store proprietor's ear, I'm going to let him know that his club buddy is making me less likely to visit his store. I go in there to look at, and sometimes purchase, train stuff, not get a browbeating.
the next time I have the store proprietor's ear, I'm going to let him know that his club buddy is making me less likely to visit his store. I go in there to look at, and sometimes purchase, train stuff, not get a browbeating.
While I sympathize, I fail to see why you think it is the proprietor's responsibility to run interference for you.
His store, his responsibility to maintain a friendly atmosphere.
Unless he doesn't really care about the business end of running a hobby shop.
When I was a teenager, I got the rude treatment at a hobby store and never went back. The one 2 blocks over was nice and I went there often, even though it was out of my way, until they closed.
Enjoy
Paul
Never belonged to a club, never will. Most I've seen do very good work on both the layouts and public relations. Many club member's I've met have been warm and friendly, and ready to lend a hand with expert advice. So why am I not a club member? Because for every one good member there seems to be 10 that think they are a third world dictator and you are a stupid waste of time and they love to sport the "how dare you stand upright in our presence, we are THE CLUB and you are not" line of thinking. I dont' need that kind of attitude in my life, so I elect to not join any clubs.
The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"
Clubs can be great - But the 'leadership' usually ages and does not keep up with what is happening in the hobby. I have belonged to several clubs over the years. Of 5 clubs, only two are still alive. The club I belong to is about 7-8 years old and has a good double track layout that allows members to 'run' trains - no era, no operation - All DCC only. The big issues with this club are:
Cost - $30/month for membership(rent is the culprit)
Distance - something line 28 miles to drive one way.
Work on the layout - When the bench work/track work/wiring was going on, everyone was involved. Once trains were running, work stopped. A total of 3 folks ballasted the layout last year(and I paid for most of the ballast out of my pocket). The same 3 folks are now doing scenery(I have built over 200 trees, and 600 flocked 'puff balls' for a mountain ridge. I really get little time to work on 'my' layout at times. One of the members quit last year - He wanted to invest his hobby money in NMRA dues, and his own layout. I am starting to think the same way(at least I bought a Life NMRA membership many years ago). We have at least 3 large 'home' layouts in town, and some really nice ones within 45-75 miles. The 'Round Robin' idea makes sense.
Modular/Fremo style layouts are nice, but keeping them stored is an issue. The closest Fremo group is over 100 miles away from our area. Clubs an be so good for a learning experience for new folks, and the social aspect is a plus. I just wish we could be more folks involved. One of the problems of being in a small city with nothing else close(except the corn fields).
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Our club is modeling a specific railroad at a specific time, and it's kind of surprising the number of people who will hang around six months, join up, and then want to change what's going on.
Having 20 people focused on the same goal lets us get a lot done and most differences of opinion get ironed out. Yes, we have some people who need help with social skills but having a stated goal makes it easier to work things out.
I've been in groups that didn't have a plan, didn't really have rules, and it was a waste of time.
Graham Line Our club is modeling a specific railroad at a specific time, and it's kind of surprising the number of people who will hang around six months, join up, and then want to change what's going on. Having 20 people focused on the same goal lets us get a lot done and most differences of opinion get ironed out. Yes, we have some people who need help with social skills but having a stated goal makes it easier to work things out. I've been in groups that didn't have a plan, didn't really have rules, and it was a waste of time.
(bold print mine...)
Bingo!!! Ding ding! This is a perfect reflection of how the vast majority of us see ourselves in the hobby, and why there is so much free/protolancing. Small surprise that the potential that we assume is ours for the plucking when we join a club doesn't materialize because those with any history in the club have adopted the 'worldview' of the layout there and have just gotten used to it. The newcomers often find they can't crowbar themselves or their druthers into the club's membership's plans for the next umpteen years, and that leaves them out of the lineup. On the bench, that is... Plan B is to start sawing wood and charging up the cordless drill's Ni-cad or lithium ion battery.
Crandell
I've always found that not caring what people think of me makes it much easier to get along with any group.
Sean
HO Scale CSX Modeler
I don't blame you.
Unfortunately that is the trouble with clubs where there is no "meeting of the minds", and why I won't join one.
I have found in the past that that is how they operate and cliques develop with ideas off on a tangent.
Being a lone wolf, as long as you have your own layout is great.
So, welcome to Lone Wolf country. Here you are accepted for what you are!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
richhotrain Interesting discussion here about clubs. I have never belonged to one and, from what I have heard here and elsewhere, I never will join a club. I run trains solo, and it is fun, but i sometimes wish that I had a few local friends who would enjoy running trains together. But, alas, it is only me. Rich
Interesting discussion here about clubs. I have never belonged to one and, from what I have heard here and elsewhere, I never will join a club. I run trains solo, and it is fun, but i sometimes wish that I had a few local friends who would enjoy running trains together. But, alas, it is only me.
Rich
Same here.
However, in my case there *might* be hope on the horizon. I just learned over the weekend that my neighbor two doors down is a model railroader. He's the guy who always puts the G-scale train on his lawn at Xmas time. One of my other neighbors came over on Sunday to ask me some questions about plumbing. In our conversation I took him downstairs to show him some stuff about it and we were standing in the midst of my layout looking up at the plumbing... we turned the corner where I've got the yard laid out and his eye got wide and he says-- "Is this what I think it is !?!?!" And he tells me about the guy a few houses over.... I don't think I've ever met him, but I suspect it's inevitable now :-)
John
TMarsh Clubs are an important part of this hobby for many reasons and I'd hate for all clubs to get a bad rep for the few that deserve it. Just my opinion.
Clubs are an important part of this hobby for many reasons and I'd hate for all clubs to get a bad rep for the few that deserve it.
Just my opinion.
I reckon that's a sensible approach. I am not aware of any clubs near me, but I do keep a baseball bat handy, "just in case"...
I can´t really understand the issue here...
If it is in your interest to meet people with the same hobby BUT don´t want to spend a lifetime in someone elses empire, building someone elses dream, why not do the module thing???
I model in HO myself and think the social interaction with my peers is important, but the only clubs around me is either closed for new members or building a prototype wich is of no interest to me (I model the US and they model Sweden...).
The solution was to join the N-scale modular society!
Then I can have some modules depicting MY visions and dreams! The modules, wich are quite easy to store, is also easy to transport, I can go to the meetings and run some trains. And still do my own thing in my very own way!
I have done the regular Club tango too many times to even bother with increasing fees and rules and what have you...
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
My Railroad
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Graff´s channel
I get the distinct impression that quite a number modelers that join a Club do so just to change it to meet their ideas! AS IN - I can't build my own layout so I will get the CLUB to build me one!
I think that quite a number have missed the point of a club!
It is to bring together modelers to exchange ideas and MEET other modelers.
If the club is not building/Operating the Railroad/Road name type that you are interested in then BUILD your OWN layout or go work/help other members build their HOME Layout.
This way YOU learn the many Modeling techniques that will help you raise your skill level.
You don't have to agree with everything the Club does but just working on the layouts helps you in the long run!
I can't understand this - WHATS IN IT FOR ME - attitude so many seem to express !?
Everytime YOU help someone YOU are learning things that NO ONE can take from you!
A CLUB is just one way to concentrate like minded individuals together easier! -
BUT I Guess some will never catch on to this.
We hope our Club helps our members start their OWN HOME Layout. This way we have more layouts to OPERATE on!
Model Railroading isn't just about watching trains run around in circles - it is making a well sceniced layout OPERATE like the real thing we are trying to emulate!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
30 some years ago, with only enthusiasm to bring to the party, I joined a club in the town we settled in. Learned quite a lot, enjoyed the social aspect, and even was an officer for a few years. But I did little in so far as what showed on the layout. For some, that's OK, but not what I was looking for.
As the family grew, became more difficult to participate, eventually, deciding to terminate my membership. The club was disappointed and questioned me regarding my reasons, fearing certain people may have discouraged my continued presence (not the case at all).
Have maintained a cordial relationship with the group, mostly the (now) oldtimers during the ensuing years. Have heard of situations that have come up that created some divisions and hurt feelings among the members over the years, but have stayed out of those discussions.
Point being, clubs are a microcosm of our society in the people they attract., just like work. Unlike work, one does not have to grin and bear it or suck it up. If it's annoying past the stage of aggravating, one can leave. If you are having fun, hopefully it overcomes any drawbacks.
Have had thoughts recently of rejoining, but the new dues structure, apparently necessary, is a deterrence. Now if the club would acquire a storage area the landlord would empty and dedicate it to construction of an N layout, then I could swallow the increase....
"Lone Wolf" here, by choice.
Nothing against clubs at all--the two clubs I've visited here in my area seem well organized, and the members I've met are certainly friendly toward 'guests', and I've picked up some good ideas for my own layout from them.
But my profession is teaching choral music in high school, which is a constant 'group' experience, and though I love my job extremely well, at the end of the day, I just want a hobby that I can do by myself.
Besides, I'm one of those Old Farts that is happy with DC, and the two local clubs are strictly DCC, so I'd have to do a lot of 'converting' on my big brass lokies in order to run them at the club, anyway. That makes my wallet scream, LOL!
But the times I've visited the clubs, I've certainly never gotten the impression of "King and Serfs" from the membership. And oh yes--one of the clubs has a good contingent of younger members--high school and college age--which probably bodes well for both the club and the hobby in general.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
twhite "Lone Wolf" here, by choice. ..... But my profession is teaching choral music in high school, which is a constant 'group' experience, and though I love my job extremely well, at the end of the day, I just want a hobby that I can do by myself. Besides, I'm one of those Old Farts that is happy with DC, and the two local clubs are strictly DCC, so I'd have to do a lot of 'converting' on my big brass lokies in order to run them at the club, anyway. That makes my wallet scream, LOL! ....... Tom
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Tom, I know what you mean, after a day of customers, sub contractors, suppliers, tenants, traffic when I have to leave the house, etc, Iam just looking for peace and quiet - something some others don't understand because their idea of fun always involves other people.
And, as to all operational standards, not just DC or DCC, I set high standards, but they are my standards and they don't always agree with what is "popular" or "politically correct" - another reason I will not drag my equipment all around town to run at clubs.
In our round robin we occasionally have a "guest" loco or a few newly built cars, but generally we run the host layout's equipment - no lugging and handling suff just to get "set up". I'll bet I have rolling stock that has been touched by human hand fewer times than you have fingers - buy it, weather and "tune" it, install Kadee's and better trucks, put it on the layout - there it stays - seldom to be touched ever again.
Sheldon
TA462 Something for you to think about. Train clubs put on 99% of the train shows you guys attend so they can't be all bad can they?
Something for you to think about. Train clubs put on 99% of the train shows you guys attend so they can't be all bad can they?
Obviously the answer is no, they can't all be bad. One thing this thread does show is that clubs aren't for everyone, especially those who can't abide politics because surely politics is an integral part of any club or social organziation. I suppose its like some people go into business for themselves and open shop or consulting firm because they can't stand to be told what to do and have a boss either.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Well, I for one feel that being in a club is the best part of this hobby. However, my club is a small, tight knit group without the factions and in-fighting that you get in a lot of larger organizations. First and foremost, I number these guys among my best friends. I realize I'm pretty lucky in that regard.
I'm also a member of a crew that regularly operates on a nearby home layout. I've known the guy forever (through the club) but I've only been operating there a year. Again, a great bunch of guys. Some I've known for years, some I've only operated with once or twice. It's another group that just seems to gel together personally.
I do know that i would not participate in this hobby at all if it wasn't for these two groups.
riogrande5761 TA462: Something for you to think about. Train clubs put on 99% of the train shows you guys attend so they can't be all bad can they? Obviously the answer is no, they can't all be bad. One thing this thread does show is that clubs aren't for everyone, especially those who can't abide politics because surely politics is an integral part of any club or social organziation. I suppose its like some people go into business for themselves and open shop or consulting firm because they can't stand to be told what to do and have a boss either.
TA462: Something for you to think about. Train clubs put on 99% of the train shows you guys attend so they can't be all bad can they?
Agreed, I for one never said or implied clubs are bad, they are just not for me.
Ontario must be very different from here. Are we talking about the same kind of train shows? - tables, vendors, modular layouts on display? None of those around here are put on by clubs - in fact even as the region with some of the most well know train shows, such shows seem to be slightly on the decline - at least from the standpoint of the venders who are attending fewer and saying they are not making any money at them.
As for people who choose to be self employed, like I have been most of my life, it's not that we "can't stand to be told what to do or have a boss either" but more about achieving our own dreams. My father told me as a young man that I should like whatever work I chose to do - being my own boss and finding my own way has always kept me doing things I like.
Model railroading and clubs is a parallel - I'm more about working toward my own dreams, not the dreams of others, or dreams that have been "selected" by committee. I spend a lot of my time, and have spent, a large part of my life taking care of the needs of others, modeling is my selfish space in life, and it is OK if that makes it a "lone wolf" space.
When I worked for others, rather than being self employed, I prefered to simply be a worker bee, tell me what you want done and let me do it - OR, let me be the boss and be responsible for the out come - BUT DON'T make me part of a "management by committee team" as is so popular in business and life today.
I'm going to say something probably kind of stupid sounding: I really enjoy being by myself enjoying my layout in my own way on my own time.......but I wish I had more like-minded people to share with, my layouts and theirs.
I don't know what that means or what to do about it, it's just the feeling I have about it; to put it another way, for me a hobby is something special I do just for myself without consideration for what anyone else thinks, but I would also like it if other people found it interesting and felt the same way I do about it.
I'm a member of a club, but I haven't really made any connections for some reason.
???
The St. Francis Consolidated Railroad of the Colorado Rockies
Denver, Colorado
To be honest, I have never been inside a model railway club house to have any first hand experience as to what goes on in there.
However, experiences in other group/club/work/sports situations tell me that clubs generally are a must for me to avoid - so I do. I know that many, many other people get a lot of enjoyment from club membership and who in heck would begrudge them that.
This doesn't mean that I am entirely anti-social; I enjoy peoples company but not in any situation other than gathering together to have a good time and enjoy each others company or a helping hand without a commitment to any kind of group or club that is formally organized.
Railroad friends I have, or at least had four until my friend, who at 83 and a superb worker with brass and who I thought was as fit as a buck rat, goes and dies just a few weeks ago.
Bruce
I never said train clubs were bad. I still want to be in a club, but I will not be in a club with bullies, especially when the bullies are in control and the rest of the club doesn't stand up to them and lets them have their way.
I been a member of several clubs over the years and I can recall quiting one club over frustration more then anything simply because there was to many babies in the club and as a club got nothing accomplish because of the constant whining...Why I stayed for 3 months still remains a mystery.
One of the better clubs I was a member of everything was done by discussion and approved by majority vote. Of course we had the few misfits to come and go because they couldn't bully their modeling style on the club,didn't like the way we did things,couldn't rip out scenery,track on a whim etc and we had one to join and quit because all we did was operate..I guess he thought the best approach was to keep ripping out and rebuilding sections of the layout just to have something to do on meeting nights.None of his brilliant ideas got passed by the membership.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I have to say your "Lone Wolf Status" Does not exist here,with over 4 pages of comments and support.I also agree that contact with others in the hobby is still very important no matter how you participate. Dave
riogrande5761 One thing this thread does show is that clubs aren't for everyone, especially those who can't abide politics because surely politics is an integral part of any club or social organziation. I suppose its like some people go into business for themselves and open shop or consulting firm because they can't stand to be told what to do and have a boss either.
One thing this thread does show is that clubs aren't for everyone, especially those who can't abide politics because surely politics is an integral part of any club or social organziation.
I suppose its like some people go into business for themselves and open shop or consulting firm because they can't stand to be told what to do and have a boss either.
riogrande5761
Funny you should mention about going into business for yourself
NOW - YOU have to listen to the whims of the CUSTOMER no matter how obnoxious they are!
You have to put up with this DAY after DAY - so you are STILL getting told what to do! ;-)
There is just no way to get around - getting told what to do!
This is an interesting discussion.
I can see how some like them and some don't. Of course I can see how some can be good and others not so much. Obviously a good balance is key in a club. You want organization and structure but not a complete dictatorship. On the other hand you have to draw limits or nothing will ever get done.
As a small business owner a club doesn't appeal to me as my hobbies (I do more than just model RR) are an escape from me. I don't want approval for what I do. Now, I do enjoy with RC hobby as it is more social than model RR but with model RR you have more total influence on your environment.
I can say that the few clubs I have been around locally seem tight knit and not very welcoming and friendly. One is N scale and the other G. I am sure that doesn't reflect all clubs but it does reflect my exposure to them.
My other issue is that I have to do my hobbies when convenient for me and set times and places don't bode well with my schedule. Between family and work I enjoy my hobbies when it fits and can't commit to a schedule to do them x day etc.
I do local competitions with my RC rock crawlers and it laid back and the group understand this. There are 3-4 of the most serious driver who make every event but the rest of us show when we can and enjoy our time. The group is very flexible that way and every one has a good time. This works well for me and the comradery is the best part of it in the end anyway.
The clubs I looked into did not seem this flexible and in my observations frowned on people showing only when it was convenient for them. I understand this but I am not retired and I also have a family so it is what it is.
My interests also peak and flow and sometimes I am more into one hobby than the other but always go back and forth. This for me is very helpful. I like spreading out among different hobbies and varying my level of participation in each as my mood strikes me.
Anyway, glad they work for some and not for others. It's a good reflection on the diversity of the hobby to have so many different aspects and takes on ones involvement and and enjoyment of it.
cmrproducts Sheldon The Member sponsoring the months meeting has the option of Operating or having a Work Session. Several of our GROUP have begun their own layouts with the purpose of conducting Operating Sessions. This was before the GROUP began (as there were members of the NMRA Div)! So it was just a change of Sessions (we don't call our get togethers Meetings - as it congers up thoughts of a structured MEETING) ! ;-) So I guess we are pretty much in the same situation! Although I do hold every other Thursday night OPs on my home layout as well as going to the Club meetings! And if I looked hard enough I suppose I could be doing train related things ever night of the week - but then again I would be in real touble on the home front! ;-) BOB H - Clarion, PA
The Member sponsoring the months meeting has the option of Operating or having a Work Session.
Several of our GROUP have begun their own layouts with the purpose of conducting Operating Sessions.
This was before the GROUP began (as there were members of the NMRA Div)!
So it was just a change of Sessions (we don't call our get togethers Meetings - as it congers up thoughts of a structured MEETING) ! ;-)
So I guess we are pretty much in the same situation!
Although I do hold every other Thursday night OPs on my home layout as well as going to the Club meetings!
And if I looked hard enough I suppose I could be doing train related things ever night of the week - but then again I would be in real touble on the home front! ;-)
I am a member of this group that Bob is talking about and I can tell you that when they come over to my layout later this year we will be doing some building of the layout. I am still in the building stage and they guys are great about pitching in to help.
Now there will be part of the layout open for some switching and things but no mainline through freights as I don't want my equipment falling off the end of the layout.
This way people that want to operate can do that on what is completed and those that are willing to help build can do that as well. I look at it this way that they know in the end we will all have another layout to operate on and I can't wait for that day.
Looking forward to the ops/work session on my layout later this year.
Modeling the Pittsburgh Division of the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad from Glenwood Yard to New Castle Yard following the old P&W Mainline.
Visit my website at: http://www.baltimoreandohiorr.com
Clubs can work. The outfit I'm with now has managed to agree on a specific era, specific locale, and is focusing on operations. We learn a lot from each other.
There have been some prospective members who never quite "got it" and were unhappy when the group wouldn't change their goals to suit them, but there have been as many people happy to find a club with a clear focus that lined up with their own interests.
It is hard for beginners to get up to speed and feel comfortable, but that aspect is improving.
Some people build, some just show up on ops days.
There are a couple generic clubs in the area devoted to running trains, and they have more or less stable memberships.
Lone Wolf and likely will always be so for the following reasons;
So I will say a Loner for the time being, building micro layouts as the Mime inspires me, it’s the best way to enjoy my hobby for me.
Have fun with your trains
Sheldon said the magic word, "dreams". We would find it odd if an artist had to have a group of people help him paint his masterpiece. Not that we are artists or capable of master pieces, but we are creating something that is a unique creative expression and to do that we need the freedom to follow our own muse. I regularly help a friend with his dream layout while ardently creating mine, but a club flies in too many directions at once, unless you just want to run trains.
Ernie C
Several years ago I left a club after being a member for a year or so. The club had acquired a new space, so I was there when the layout plan was being developed and initial construction started. The overall concept of the layout's plan was decided democratically and with which I was quite in favor.
Nevertheless, I ended membership because too often I went home angry or frustrated. It is difficult for me to suffer fools or childish behavior exhibited by a minority of members. Realizing I was the problem, I resigned from the club.
My best friend is still a member (he got me to join originally) and the club has prospered without me. Now I find myself making deck bridges and wooden trestles during weekly "train nights" (a multi-decade-long tradition) with my friend for installation on the club's layout. Still, no desire to join the membership.
My empathy goes out to those of you that encountered a lot of negative experiences at a model railroad club. IMHO, a hobby club should promote fun, fellowship, creativity, character building, and an "approachable" leadership group.
I get turned off very quickly by arrogant and/or cocky belittling snobs. As tempting as it can be to argue, I've found it best in most cases to walk away from those types of personalities.
My club experience was excellent (Suncoast Model Railroader's Club - Largo, Florida) and only left due to demands on my time from family and work. I plan to rejoin in the future.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"