Comrad_Durandal My problem is that in my area, no clubs seem to run N scale. The closest club is a G and O scale club, they don't deal with anything smaller - even HO is too small. Nice guys, but they are old enough to be my grandfather or great-grandfather. The others are all HO only clubs, and the Ntrak group I tried to contact wasn't accepting new members at the time I inquired.
My problem is that in my area, no clubs seem to run N scale. The closest club is a G and O scale club, they don't deal with anything smaller - even HO is too small. Nice guys, but they are old enough to be my grandfather or great-grandfather. The others are all HO only clubs, and the Ntrak group I tried to contact wasn't accepting new members at the time I inquired.
Curious. Ntrak is a modular concept with each member building their own module. Since experience teaches us that not every member will attend every meeting or display their module at every show, one more member would not seem hurt; in fact it would seem to be an asset. How can they not accept new members? But it's their business and they can run it anyway they want. However, remember that the Ntrak group is not a loose nit round robin group. They are a club with rules and certain people who want to be the Big Engineer in Complete Charge.
Ray
Sorry to hear the club went south on you like that. But like some others say, look to get with a round robin group. We have a great one here in SE Michigan:
http://www.semichops.org/
Sharing the hobby with others is still the best part, IMHO.
Larry
http://www.youtube.com/user/ClinchValleySD40
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52481330@N05/
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/page/1/ppuser/8745/sl/c
aloco Well, after about twenty-five years of being in a model railroad club, I've decided to call it quits. It used to be fun, but now there are some members who act like they own the club and the club layout and they are bossing the rest of us around. And I can't challenge them either. Whenever I come up with any ideas or challenge theirs they talk to me like I'm stupid. When it gets to that point I figure it's time to leave.
Well, after about twenty-five years of being in a model railroad club, I've decided to call it quits. It used to be fun, but now there are some members who act like they own the club and the club layout and they are bossing the rest of us around. And I can't challenge them either. Whenever I come up with any ideas or challenge theirs they talk to me like I'm stupid. When it gets to that point I figure it's time to leave.
aloco,
I have the same problem with my club - - - a 2 member club consisting of my wife and me. The wife rarely, if ever, comes down to the basement layout and never runs trains. However, she is bossy, constantly talks to me like I am stupid, and makes a lot of suggestions such as "why don't you tear this thing down or at least make it smaller". I like your idea of returning to lone wolf status, but I fear the repercussions of the dictatorial co-owner of the club.
Rich
Alton Junction
I've left two clubs for similar reasons. Lone wolf? Yep, that's me.
I belonged to a numbe of clubes over the yers. Too cloquish for me and like everyone hs seid : Do NOT BRING UP ANY IDEAS". I am building large (12 1/2 X 39 Ftoot) N scale lyout in my basement. I will hve selected number of people over for operating sessions. I keep 1 steam engine on hand so I can tie anyone who tries to tell me what to do to the tracks and we each get a turn running him over just like the old "Perils of Pauline slient movie". RULE #1 ITS MY RAILROAD and On MY railoroad "I AM GOD!!!".. RULE #2 ANY QUESTIONS REFER TO RULE $1!!!.
Any organization that grows past a certain point is bound to meet with mediocrity someday.
When we started what I call our "club", we were three. The reason because we associated our effort was because our interests were the same, the amount of work we wanted was also the same and we complemented each other... Then few people started to want to join us for different reasons... We thought: the more, the merrier and more ressources to expand the layout. It proved to be a big mistake... We lost control and felt things weren't going anywhere... It was a real slump...
When we went back to the three original founders, strangely, everything returned to normal and interest in the layout grew steadily.
Honestly, it's a hobby, a place where I can vent my frustration from the real world... The last place I want rules, bossy people and other annoying things...
Matt
Proudly modelling the Quebec Railway Light & Power Co since 1997.
http://www.hedley-junction.blogspot.com
http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com
Truck Rob_C: Sorry if it was mentioned earlier, how does one go about finding a round-robin group in their area? Rob Round -robin, NO WAY After all three members in my club " me, myself & I " run trains and tinker with project trains, rolling stock and scenery we get hungry we go to RED ROBIN, they have killer burgers. I guess you could say I'm a lone wolf. Truck
Rob_C: Sorry if it was mentioned earlier, how does one go about finding a round-robin group in their area? Rob
Sorry if it was mentioned earlier, how does one go about finding a round-robin group in their area?
Rob
Round -robin, NO WAY After all three members in my club " me, myself & I " run trains and tinker with project trains, rolling stock and scenery we get hungry we go to RED ROBIN, they have killer burgers.
I guess you could say I'm a lone wolf. Truck
Red Robin, yuck. However, Rule G in my book says: "Use of intoxicating or mood altering substances while operating this railroad is prohibited. Unless you bring enough for everyone."
<wink>
I used to be clueless, but i've turned that around 360 degrees.
Rob_C Sorry if it was mentioned earlier, how does one go about finding a round-robin group in their area? Rob
Start asking around at the LHS if you don't know anyone else.
Through the years, I've been a member of 3 different formal incorporated clubs and 2 different round robin groups. One club ran me off because of an abrasive member, but I left the other two for geographic reasons.
The most fun I've had was with the round robins, and of those one group had members with widely different tastes. One member had a similar fondness for Southern and other southern railroads, and the next week we'd go work on another members Sn3 layout. That was a blast, and we'd violate Rule G on a regular basis.
In my experience, a small, apolitical group is the best way to go. Anyone else in St. Mary's County Maryland want to start a round robin?
Clubs - I kind of like them. I'm not in one at present, mainly due to work schedule and family commitments. When either lightens up, I'll probably pick one of the 3, although the 3rd is most likely:
- join a club
- join or form a round-robin group
- build and participate in a Free-mo group
I've been in 2 clubs in the past, in Pensacola, FL and Coos Bay, OR. Both had club layouts under construction. Obviously, they didn't do things 100% my way, or model my era or prototypes. But I still had fun, and learned a lot. Truthfully, I probably wasn't assigned to either location long enough to get rubbed the wrong way enough to make me want to quit. And my transient status was likely less threatening to the more permanent members.
When a club is doing well, the result is far greater than the efforts of the individual members. But being made of human beings, conflicts often stop a club from being what it ought to be and could be.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
I have 3 local clubs to choose from should I decide to join. I don't decide to join.
Club, schmub.
Why?
well, any club, in order to function well should have some standards, whether is a MRR club or some other hobby or whatever club. I tend to be a lone wolf anyway.
Also, clubs DO develop "cliques" after a while and I don't often fit into "cliques". Never have never will.
Clubs may follow NMRA standards and may not. But they WILL require you to invest in at least a modular to fit into their layout OR a section of hte layout yet unfinished. I may not want to "spend" what they consider is "adequate" for a project on the layout. I can be cheap all by MYself {though I wouldn't consider my layout cheap as I used extruded foam on a frame grid for my lightweight layout{ and such- not cheap old newspapers and plaster paris dipped newsparers}
It's my RR and I'll run what I wanna. THat is my motto,. A club could take that away from me IF they model only one era and only one RR. I like to think my proto-lanced layout can have trackage rights given to other RRs who have equipement I enjoy.
A club can fight over the pickiest things...like what equipement you run [brands, style, DC/DCC etc.} And I don't like that. See below.
A club is as I said, usually one era and RR. I like to swap out older steams for newer 50/60s and 70/80s equipment to avoid getting bored with my small layout. And if it is July 1958 on their layout, a {gasp} Chessie loco would not run then!
Clubs often require dues, and that can be expensive if I am short on money {happening a lot lately with teh bad ecomony and I am on a fixed income that hasn't seen a "raise" in 3 years.} I can think of better ways to spend my money.
So, A lone wolf I am and will remain.
Thank your good fortune that you can be one too!!!!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Welcome back tot eh club ( the lone wolf club ) I was a club modeller for about ten years even was the clubs president for a while ( that worked well I was elected by all those that disliked the big mouth wants to be god ) He still did his own thing and everyone left. Last I heard he and six others that were his go to yes men were all that still remained. Oh well clubs are like that they tend to be political and treated like someones persoanl sandbox.
The other upside to being out on ones own is you never get that conflict of personalities and you can always ask for help from a trusted few . Or be like me I switched to all traction modelling which lessons the club pool and forces one to be a lone wolf. Works for me.
Let's hear it for the "lone wolves"!! Clubs seem to be dominated by a few individuals (which at times may not be too bad an idea if not taken to extremes). Clubs must have a plan and stick pretty close too it (with respect to building a layout). But, sometimes they stifle the creative "juices" of other individuals. This is the reason why I left a club several years ago. One guy, let's call him "John" was a retired engineer (not the railroad type). He can up with a track plan using one of those CAD computer programs. He want to follow the prototype of the local railroad in the 1950's. Sounds good to me. The track plan had little to do with the prototype (even though John or someone in the club had aerial photos of various landmarks. I was told to build the engine servicing area. There were a lot of structures from the previous layout to be used (they had NOTHING to do with the prototype). Well, few people showed up on regular work nights (I was one who was there). I was told to do what "was necessary to build a servicible facility). I was about half way done when I returned one night to find that John did not like it (John was rarely at the work sessions and I never had received feed back). While my work was "pulled up" and I was told to try again. No other communication. That was enough for me!! I had just moved into my new home with a new train room and I never went back again!!
Craig North Carolina
I just got back from the Southeast Region NMRA "Tracks to Macon" convention and had a great time, met some great modelers, and learned a lot of great things at the clinics. I have gone to the Big train show in Springfield MA only missing one of the last 10 years and always had a great time.
I will not try to make excuses for others peoples experiences but I would not let that deter you. Get out and meet other modelers.
V/R
Chris
Check out my railroad at: Buffalo and Southwestern
Photos at:Flicker account
YouTube:StellarMRR YouTube account
"I think too much internet & not enough public awareness is driving people away from shows."
I think the same old junk at too high a price, rude people with baby strollers, rude people on "scooters", and just plan rude people in general are driving people away from shows.
I think long walks to and from the parking lot, limited production models not available for sale, and high priced "HO highrail" is driving people away from shows.
I think bad food, the same mediorce modular layouts on display, disinterested vendors, offset by pushy vendors, and poorly lighted exhibit halls are driving people away from shows.
Just my opinion - these are reasons I don't go to very many.
Sheldon
I think too much internet & not enough public awareness is driving people away from shows.
I think another possible reason for the decline in attendance is that people are a lot more busier than they were 10-20 years ago. I know I've become a lot more busy with my kids sports among other things.
I would love to join TA462's club but it's a 30 minute drive one way & gas isn't getting any cheaper.
Then there's having to add DCC to a couple of locomotives to start.............. oh well.
I'll attend shows when I can. I've met a lot of people in the past few years, mainly through eBay, Kijiji & several Yahoo groups that dealt with selling HO scale railroad items & usually see them at the shows.
If i see people I know from clubs, they usually allow my son to run trains. Then there's times when my son decides to out right ask strangers to allow him to run their trains which to my amazement, they allowed him. I've learned to carry a small fold-up ladder with me so I don't have to lift him up to see. Love the looks I get from other parents when they see me do this. They look at you saying "Why didn't I think of that!"
I know, I was one of those parents at one time.
Gordon
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
I just joined a club and like it much so far, they have their own space, it's a big layout that runs well and they use a DCC system I am familiar with, and so all that combined makes me fairly happy. It's not perfect sure, but I like it all the same. Also not having model railroading buddies otherwise it's nice to have that social connection. None of my close friends are train people, though thankfully tolerate my discourse on them. The clubs PRR/Reading oriented but no one's given me grief over my South-Eastern stock.
Cheers
Alvie
TA462 ATLANTIC CENTRAL: Ontario must be very different from here. Are we talking about the same kind of train shows? - tables, vendors, modular layouts on display? None of those around here are put on by clubs - in fact even as the region with some of the most well know train shows, such shows seem to be slightly on the decline - at least from the standpoint of the venders who are attending fewer and saying they are not making any money at them. Sheldon Yep, they are the same kind of shows. I believe the majority of clubs in Ontario host a model train show once a year. My club for example puts ours on in February and it's out main source of income to pay for our expenses over the year. Insurance, fuel expenses for towing our layout to shows and new projects eat up a fair bit of cash. We travel to 6 shows a year with our layout that are hosted by other clubs. The only show I can think of that is NOT hosted by a club is the Toronto show. If you google "Ontario Train Shows" you will see there are a lot of them out there that are put on by clubs. I believe there was a slight decrease in attendance at most of the shows I attended over the last year. I think I went to around 12. Most of the vendors I spoke with tend to agree with you up here as well. People aren't buying as much as they use to.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL: Ontario must be very different from here. Are we talking about the same kind of train shows? - tables, vendors, modular layouts on display? None of those around here are put on by clubs - in fact even as the region with some of the most well know train shows, such shows seem to be slightly on the decline - at least from the standpoint of the venders who are attending fewer and saying they are not making any money at them. Sheldon
Ontario must be very different from here. Are we talking about the same kind of train shows? - tables, vendors, modular layouts on display? None of those around here are put on by clubs - in fact even as the region with some of the most well know train shows, such shows seem to be slightly on the decline - at least from the standpoint of the venders who are attending fewer and saying they are not making any money at them.
Yep, they are the same kind of shows. I believe the majority of clubs in Ontario host a model train show once a year. My club for example puts ours on in February and it's out main source of income to pay for our expenses over the year. Insurance, fuel expenses for towing our layout to shows and new projects eat up a fair bit of cash. We travel to 6 shows a year with our layout that are hosted by other clubs. The only show I can think of that is NOT hosted by a club is the Toronto show. If you google "Ontario Train Shows" you will see there are a lot of them out there that are put on by clubs.
I believe there was a slight decrease in attendance at most of the shows I attended over the last year. I think I went to around 12. Most of the vendors I spoke with tend to agree with you up here as well. People aren't buying as much as they use to.
So, yes it is a very different world here. We have the well known Great Scale Model Train Show, http://www.gsmts.com/ , put on five times a year I believe by Howard Zane. And Greenbergs comes to town once or twice a year.
If I go to two a year that's a lot for me, usually just to look for a little "new old stock" stuff or buy from known small manufacturers like F&C or Tichy.
Mostly its the same old junk with the same high prices OR the latest new stuff with prices higher than my LHS or online. Some of our good local shops set up, but why pay and admission fee to buy from them when I can just go to their store anytime?
Same modular layouts every time, some are very nice, some not so much so.
For me train shows and clubs are in the same boat, not really something I need.
Notice I have not been on here much either - too busy building model trains, and making money to buy more.
My empathy goes out to those of you that encountered a lot of negative experiences at a model railroad club. IMHO, a hobby club should promote fun, fellowship, creativity, character building, and an "approachable" leadership group.
I get turned off very quickly by arrogant and/or cocky belittling snobs. As tempting as it can be to argue, I've found it best in most cases to walk away from those types of personalities.
My club experience was excellent (Suncoast Model Railroader's Club - Largo, Florida) and only left due to demands on my time from family and work. I plan to rejoin in the future.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Several years ago I left a club after being a member for a year or so. The club had acquired a new space, so I was there when the layout plan was being developed and initial construction started. The overall concept of the layout's plan was decided democratically and with which I was quite in favor.
Nevertheless, I ended membership because too often I went home angry or frustrated. It is difficult for me to suffer fools or childish behavior exhibited by a minority of members. Realizing I was the problem, I resigned from the club.
My best friend is still a member (he got me to join originally) and the club has prospered without me. Now I find myself making deck bridges and wooden trestles during weekly "train nights" (a multi-decade-long tradition) with my friend for installation on the club's layout. Still, no desire to join the membership.
Sheldon said the magic word, "dreams". We would find it odd if an artist had to have a group of people help him paint his masterpiece. Not that we are artists or capable of master pieces, but we are creating something that is a unique creative expression and to do that we need the freedom to follow our own muse. I regularly help a friend with his dream layout while ardently creating mine, but a club flies in too many directions at once, unless you just want to run trains.
Ernie C
Lone Wolf and likely will always be so for the following reasons;
So I will say a Loner for the time being, building micro layouts as the Mime inspires me, it’s the best way to enjoy my hobby for me.
Have fun with your trains
Clubs can work. The outfit I'm with now has managed to agree on a specific era, specific locale, and is focusing on operations. We learn a lot from each other.
There have been some prospective members who never quite "got it" and were unhappy when the group wouldn't change their goals to suit them, but there have been as many people happy to find a club with a clear focus that lined up with their own interests.
It is hard for beginners to get up to speed and feel comfortable, but that aspect is improving.
Some people build, some just show up on ops days.
There are a couple generic clubs in the area devoted to running trains, and they have more or less stable memberships.
cmrproducts Sheldon The Member sponsoring the months meeting has the option of Operating or having a Work Session. Several of our GROUP have begun their own layouts with the purpose of conducting Operating Sessions. This was before the GROUP began (as there were members of the NMRA Div)! So it was just a change of Sessions (we don't call our get togethers Meetings - as it congers up thoughts of a structured MEETING) ! ;-) So I guess we are pretty much in the same situation! Although I do hold every other Thursday night OPs on my home layout as well as going to the Club meetings! And if I looked hard enough I suppose I could be doing train related things ever night of the week - but then again I would be in real touble on the home front! ;-) BOB H - Clarion, PA
The Member sponsoring the months meeting has the option of Operating or having a Work Session.
Several of our GROUP have begun their own layouts with the purpose of conducting Operating Sessions.
This was before the GROUP began (as there were members of the NMRA Div)!
So it was just a change of Sessions (we don't call our get togethers Meetings - as it congers up thoughts of a structured MEETING) ! ;-)
So I guess we are pretty much in the same situation!
Although I do hold every other Thursday night OPs on my home layout as well as going to the Club meetings!
And if I looked hard enough I suppose I could be doing train related things ever night of the week - but then again I would be in real touble on the home front! ;-)
BOB H - Clarion, PA
I am a member of this group that Bob is talking about and I can tell you that when they come over to my layout later this year we will be doing some building of the layout. I am still in the building stage and they guys are great about pitching in to help.
Now there will be part of the layout open for some switching and things but no mainline through freights as I don't want my equipment falling off the end of the layout.
This way people that want to operate can do that on what is completed and those that are willing to help build can do that as well. I look at it this way that they know in the end we will all have another layout to operate on and I can't wait for that day.
Looking forward to the ops/work session on my layout later this year.
Tom
Modeling the Pittsburgh Division of the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad from Glenwood Yard to New Castle Yard following the old P&W Mainline.
Visit my website at: http://www.baltimoreandohiorr.com
This is an interesting discussion.
I can see how some like them and some don't. Of course I can see how some can be good and others not so much. Obviously a good balance is key in a club. You want organization and structure but not a complete dictatorship. On the other hand you have to draw limits or nothing will ever get done.
As a small business owner a club doesn't appeal to me as my hobbies (I do more than just model RR) are an escape from me. I don't want approval for what I do. Now, I do enjoy with RC hobby as it is more social than model RR but with model RR you have more total influence on your environment.
I can say that the few clubs I have been around locally seem tight knit and not very welcoming and friendly. One is N scale and the other G. I am sure that doesn't reflect all clubs but it does reflect my exposure to them.
My other issue is that I have to do my hobbies when convenient for me and set times and places don't bode well with my schedule. Between family and work I enjoy my hobbies when it fits and can't commit to a schedule to do them x day etc.
I do local competitions with my RC rock crawlers and it laid back and the group understand this. There are 3-4 of the most serious driver who make every event but the rest of us show when we can and enjoy our time. The group is very flexible that way and every one has a good time. This works well for me and the comradery is the best part of it in the end anyway.
The clubs I looked into did not seem this flexible and in my observations frowned on people showing only when it was convenient for them. I understand this but I am not retired and I also have a family so it is what it is.
My interests also peak and flow and sometimes I am more into one hobby than the other but always go back and forth. This for me is very helpful. I like spreading out among different hobbies and varying my level of participation in each as my mood strikes me.
Anyway, glad they work for some and not for others. It's a good reflection on the diversity of the hobby to have so many different aspects and takes on ones involvement and and enjoyment of it.