I've been around here as long as anyone like CNJ. I've seen it all - twenty times over. There have been active periods and quiet periods. I tend to agree we're in one of the quieter periods.
The nastiness has always been with us. In fact I'd say there has been much worse nastiness in the past. I remember well a certain trouble-maker who got kicked off the board and kept coming back under new ID's to start fires - and boy did he have an easy time sucking people into countless flame-wars.
A lot of interesting reasons have been given for the recent decline. For me personally, I've been there and done that so many times that it's hard to find a topic that isn't a rehash of something that was beaten to death many times over in the past.
I also tend to ignore the controversial topics, and usually report anything I see that's over the line to the moderators rather than to jump into the fray. Yeah, I'm usually the tattle-tale that kills the fun.
There are a few reasons that I dont post as much anymore.
1. My interest lie with kit building, scratchbulding and kitbashing. It seems there are few on here that share this, or at least post topics about it. Posts such as "HO Scale Tower 55 Locomotives" and "Walthers ADM Grain Elevator" hold zero interest for me. Plus the fact that I am in O scale further distances me from being interested. It seem to me that 99% of the threads here are related to RTR, DCC and HO. Aside from social discussion threads such as this.
2. I hate being nitpicked. I speak very often in broad generalities and in a normal conversation, there is no problem with me communicating to others my oppinion or facts. On these forums however....... I feel like I need an attorney to read over each post before posting. For instance, I once posted "railroads never ran single F-units backward." Obviously and exageration, how else would they move in and out of the engine house. Out came a stream of people to tell me about an instance here, or an instance there were they did. Apparently what I should have put was "Most major carrier railroads in the united states and during normal freight operations would usually not run F-units backward unless there was an unusual circumstance that warranted them doing so because there was no legitimate alternative to doing so." One person (you know who you are) told me I was wrong because he saw it on a tourist railroad once...... sigh.
Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:
For what little it's worth, I don't post or read much here due that the non-modeling, non-model railroading topics seem to heavily outweigh the modeling and model railroading ones, at least in member's interests (as indicated by number of responses).
There was one recently on property values in different regions in the US that racked up more pages in response than the weekly pictures post. While I realize that a lot of topics do not need 4 pages of replies to answer the question posed, I personally find it disappointing to see the Model Railroading topic appear secondary sometimes.
So for my purposes, I come here to look at Model Railroading topics. I find that having to separate MR topics from those that aren't as pertinent, reduces my enjoyment of the forum.
Just one person's opinion.
I'm trying to model 1956, not live in it.
I have noticed that some of the other model railroad boards are experiencing far worse declines in the number of postings for some time now.
The Zealot site is just hanging on and the Bachmann site is not faring well lately.
It seems that a relativley small number of posters have now taken over there and seem to more or less control the site.
One other possible reason for the decline in forum participation is the increased policing of topics on this discussion board. Normally, policing is good; making sure the trolls don't take over and promoting civility among discussion participants.
However, I remember that some of the most interesting topics on the discussion board in years past were also those topics that very often led to name-calling among participants and bad mouthing of this forum's gracious host or other innocent bystanders. In most cases, it was only a few individuals who caused most of the problems - most of the participants made civil and pertinent comments. But the forums' moderators have found that it's just easier to shut down the topic rather than deal with the miscreants.
I'm not blaming the moderators for their actions, but I can't help but wonder if the reduced number of interesting, challenging and/or thought-provoking topics is now resulting in reduced numbers of interested participants.
I guess it's just like network television - provocative programming always draws the most viewers.
Just a thought.
Tom
This site seems to be more active lately than other MRR sites I checked out. I think one of the reasons for the popularity of this site is its versatility. It doesn't impose a "one size fits all" mentality.
Personally, I enjoy the posts about new techniques and products. Plus, a variety of styles seems to be well appreciated. For example, the styles of people like John Allen, John Olson, and Malcolm Furlow lured me back into the hobby. I only wish I had their creative talents. On the other hand, their styles seem less highly regarded on some other sites.
Just my opinion.
- Harry
ScarpiaI don't post or read much here due that the non-modeling, non-model railroading topics seem to heavily outweigh the modeling and model railroading ones, at least in member's interests (as indicated by number of responses).
I personally find it disappointing to see the Model Railroading topic appear secondary sometimes.
don7 The Zealot site is just hanging on
Special case - most members of the Model Railroading part of Zealot left in a pretty massive protest againt the new owner's policies, and started a new web forum (the-gauge.net), which is doing quite well.
Smile,Stein
el-capitan 1. My interest lie with kit building, scratchbulding and kitbashing. It seems there are few on here that share this, or at least post topics about it.
1. My interest lie with kit building, scratchbulding and kitbashing. It seems there are few on here that share this, or at least post topics about it.
El-Capitan-
I am very interested in scratchbuilding and kitbashing, but I am afraid I don't know a lot about it first-hand (yet). I am a long-time fan of (the late) Art Curren and (the likewise late) Earl Smallshaw and love looking through old issues at their many scratchbuilding and kitbashing articles.
I personally welcome the "RTR Era" because now I have a *choice* what I want to do-- whether I want to make something or just buy it. Or what my actual plan is-- to buy stuff now and, as my skills improve, start rebuilding it later from scratch or kitbashing.
For me, its most important to get a railroad up and running "now" (as soon as I can make it) than to worry about most specific details other than good benchwork and track. But, that said, I have been reading voraciously and soaking up everything I can get my hands on and learning about the various aspects of the hobby.
My goal is to build it first-- get it up and running, and then work on improving it.
If you post interesting stuff about scratchbuilding and kitbashing, I'll be happy to read about it and participate in the discussions.
John
ScarpiaFor what little it's worth, I don't post or read much here due that the non-modeling, non-model railroading topics seem to heavily outweigh the modeling and model railroading ones, at least in member's interests (as indicated by number of responses).
I think that's because an open site like this one can be considered as much a "watering hole" as anything else. People come here to be social, to chat, to see and be seen, to gain information, to give information, to exchange thoughts, to pick up tips, make contacts, buy & sell stuff (not specifically on this forum), make friends ( & sometimes enemies :-) , really the list is sorta endless. Its a marketplace of ideas and personalities. I am not suprised at all at the number of social events that take place here-- although I was a little amused with "Elliot's Diner" when I first checked it out. But hey, whatever floats yer boat, right? Who am I to say anything, I play with little trains too And there's not a thing in the world wrong with having some imagination. Indeed, I wish it were a more universal trait!
Texas ZepherWhy is it a topic like this or beer barn, diner, or music to model by, can get pages and pages of response while a serious model railroading discussion seldom gets beyond two pages before it dies or turns into a flame war.
People like to talk. That's pretty much all there is to it. We're social creatures. Its deeply embedded into our natures to seek each other out, share opinions and ideas, and to establish a "norm" and then work to either conform to it or rebel from it. When we enter this site we don't leave our regular selves at the door, we bring that in right along with the interest in trains. And while the interest in trains and model railroading is the draw that brings us together, when we're actually here, we start finding out other stuff about each other and expanding our relationships / social interactions with each other-- in other words, while model railroading might be the focus, after awhile a community emerges. And like any other community it has leaders and followers, contributors and hangers-on, and everybody inbetween.
As for why discussions turn into flame wars-- well, I think it has to do with both the topic and what we know or think we know about it. I've been studying this for awhile now on a number of different (types of) sites. Whenever a topic arises that is "generic", people can contribute and converse with relative civility because nobody can really have "the right answer"-- at least not really to a substantial degree (oddballs and odd opinions not counted). But when the topic is more personal or "hot-button", things get a little more heated-up because people have strong attachments to their opinions and beliefs. And sometimes its hard to hear other people's thoughts without somehow reading into it that its a personal attack on their own beliefs. Even if its not or wasn't-- or sometimes it might appear to be due to a bad selection of words, people still get a little nervous talking about personal or "hot-button" topics. And inevitably, someone tosses a bomb-- drops the proverbial glove, as it were-- and someone else goes for the challenge-- takes the bait-- and a fight (heated discussion) breaks out. And as I have seen happen over and over more times than I wish to relate-- as soon as the "logical" and "sociable" arguments are exhausted, someone with a "lesser degree of finesse in the subject" will inevitably resort to attacking the messenger (other participants) personally.
Occasionally its the result of "Trolls", which are people who seem to take delight in creating "hot-topic" situations and then sitting back and watching the fireworks ensue. And why not really? That seems like it could be as entertaining a hobby as anything else. But it sure does put a damper on things and strains relationships and shuts down conversations pretty quick. Once the personal attacks come out, the argument is pretty much over-- nothing left but the petty, and the potential for hurt feelings. I think the whole situation is predicated on a very deeply ingrained notion that each of us, from our own point of views and perspectives, needs to be "right"-- by which I mean to see and view ourselves as "right within our own worlds"-- in order to function as individuals. And though the truth is that we cannot always be "right" about everything, some people have a harder time than others accepting when they're "wrong" (i.e., not "right") and taking their lumps (learning something) gracefully. And so instead of simply acknowledging that they were "not right", they instead resort to name-calling or other tactics designed to disguise and/or mis-direct the "argument".
Good ole' human nature at work.
jwhittenI think that's because an open site like this one can be considered as much a "watering hole" as anything else. People come here to be social, to chat, to see and be seen, to gain information, to give information, to exchange thoughts, to pick up tips, make contacts, buy & sell stuff (not specifically on this forum), make friends ( & sometimes enemies :-) , really the list is sorta endless. Its a marketplace of ideas and personalities. I am not suprised at all at the number of social events that take place here-- although I was a little amused with "Elliot's Diner" when I first checked it out. But hey, whatever floats yer boat, right? Who am I to say anything, I play with little trains too And there's not a thing in the world wrong with having some imagination. Indeed, I wish it were a more universal trait!
Perhaps, but in my opinion, the great irony here is that a lot of posters are quick to slam facebook, myspace, and other social networking sites when it's convenient, and than on the other hand seem to use the General Discussion as some kind of surrogate for what amounts to be the same purpose.
You're correct that what ever floats your boat is the way to go - I didn't say that it should change, just pointing out why I don't post here much, or why I found it more disappointing than rewarding.
Folks are clearly interested in those topics, the proofs in the pudding. Me, when I come here, to the Model Railroader Forums, I'm interested in Model Railroading.
steinjrdon7 The Zealot site is just hanging on Special case - most members of the Model Railroading part of Zealot left in a pretty massive protest againt the new owner's policies, and started a new web forum (the-gauge.net), which is doing quite well. Smile,Stein
I think the Zealot site is run by a geezer who jealously guards his site. I made mention of the Bachmann Shay gear solution and the site owner banned my IP connection for over a month to "punish" me. I could not even read the messages there. All I wanted to do is contribute to the hobby. I just dropped his site.
I belong to the Bachmann site and it seems to be a lot of children who come and go.
But again, it is the spring weather and stuff does happen or in this case, does not happen and there is nothing we can do about it.
It appears, more are showing up at the Fugate site that have been here and may still be watching here but not saying anything.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
The question I have for the moderators is why the posting from Al Mayo under his newest assumed title is still on the forum? It has had 165 hits, but no takers, but still there. Personally I think it is disgusting.
Bob
El-Capitan,
I mentioned this on another thread, but you're a very good example of a person that can make well apprecited contributions. I would most certainly be interested in seeing scratchbuilding work and learning about your techniques. With this rough economy and the price of structures kits and rolling stock climbing, scratchbuilding is not going to be extinct anytime soon.
If you have a digital camera and have some work samples to show, please start a thread, post those photos and tell us about your work. You can potentially make an impact on someone who was "thinking about it" but may decide to try it because of your info.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
steinjr don7 The Zealot site is just hanging on Special case - most members of the Model Railroading part of Zealot left in a pretty massive protest againt the new owner's policies, and started a new web forum (the-gauge.net), which is doing quite well. Smile,Stein
Thank you for that information. I was unaware of the protest.
pastorbob The question I have for the moderators is why the posting from Al Mayo under his newest assumed title is still on the forum? It has had 165 hits, but no takers, but still there. Personally I think it is disgusting. Bob
Bob, this has been going on ever since the change-over a last weekend. We are working on the problem, or Wade is, but although we ban the person and prevent regular members from seeing any of the person's posts, for some reason the heading still shows. Not much any mod can do about it except to apprise the Powers That Be. Long since done.
-Crandell
I belong to twenty one forums on three different subjects and all have slowed down. Really, this is much ado about nothing. Good fodder for Rants though.