Yeah,,,,,motivation,,well someday. Next time around I think I'll go double deck. Still stay in the 40s and fifties era. Will definetly go to live frog turnouts.I've got #6 atlas turnouts but my short wheel baase and most steamers don't like em. I'm currently wiring the frogs to see if I can improve the herky jerkies. BILL
1. From the start I should have had a concrete plan. I do now after 9 years of buying things that kind of fit my era. I've effectively cut my rolling stock roster in half over the past year and decreased my locomotives by 10.
2. Don't over dream when developing a plan. I am now modeling 4 small towns - one with a super small yard and branch line off of my line (total of roughly 18 miles of real railroad) instead of modeling 12 towns with two yards (total of 70 miles of railroad) and 3 interchange railroads.
3. Don't buy large multiplies of the same car when I don't need it. I model a grain line so I need a lot of covered hoppers, but I don't need 20+ of cars that I could only use 1 or 2 max.
4. Stick with my prototype and avoid distractions. I model the Missouri Pacific period. There were no detours or trackage rights in my area of modeling. I've dabbled in the Rock Island (still plan to include 1 train - enjoy the history). I saw a great looking Clinchfield plan in Model Railroader, but I need to avoid the temptation.
5. Start modeling. Get off the couch and computer and do something. Justify the money and time spent on the hobby. When I put my nose to it, I can build some nice models. Just need to do it.
Just my 2-cents.
Nate
I am in the unenviable position of doing just that. Through divorce and a foreclosure on my house, I lost my entire collection of locos an rollign stock. ABout the only thing I had was my collection of MR and my other reference books (and even lost a couple of those). No tools, no locos, no DCC equipment, nothing. Last year I was finally back in a position to start over. What did I do different this time? Well, before I bought my first kit I bought tools. Every tool I could recall using before, from microbrushes for glue applciation to Xuron rail nippers. NMRA gauge, Kadee gauge, two sets of needle files (one for metal, one for palstic), sprue nippers - and a toolbox to keep it in. Then I scoured eBay to find the kits and locos I used to have as well as others that would fit my location and era. What I did differently there was not just keep waiting and waiting to make the steal by getting an $80 loco for $20 - this time I figured if I got the $80 loco for $50 I was still getting it for less than I'd find at any LHS. I still passed things by that went much higher ($50 including the shipping).
I didn;t have the room I used to, so I was working on a small switchign layout. One thing I did differently with the benchwork was inset the foam into the side rails - the cross pieces were 24" rather than 22 1/2" so the foam sits inside the longitudinal members rather than squarely on top. I also used 2 layers of 2" extruded foam instead of 1 layer, to allow for more below the tracks carving. ANd I put 1/4" plywood on the bottom. I just moved to a larger palce so I will come up with a full room track plan and build more of the same type of sections to fill the room. I saved the one I already made, by removing the legs a 2x8 chunk of 1x3's and 1x4's with extruded foam is relatively lightweight and easily moved. I was originally goign to make the sections 2x4' but the 2x8' was moved easily enough so future sections will be that size. The other change I made was height - the previous layout was low to accommodate my ex father-in-law who is a lot shorter then I am, so it was a compromise. This one is being built up higher to best suit me.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hello everybody,
thank you very much for all the responses. I have read all of them and must say there is a lot of great information from which I can learn even though this is my fourth layout that is being build.
The first two layouts were without elevations trying to figure out different scenery methods, laying track and learning about the quality of the rolling stock. The third layout was high enough to walk underneath in the living room. It had a 2% grade and interesting operating options as well as issues in design and operation. This fourth layout has three levels with the fourth soon to be added in the form of staging. It is DC with four power packs. One for each level and a fourth that can control power on all three levels including the helix. Scenery has improved, track laying tricks and general trouble shooting and operation has improved thanks to all of you.
So the reason for this thread is to enable people starting out in the hobby to avoid certain pit falls. Thanks to all of your great responses I think also people more seasoned are learning a lot. I know I am learning a lot.
Again Thank you
Frank
"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."
The thing I'm glad I did was planning. For years I planned and tweaked until I had a dead-on track plan and a picture in my mind of the scenery. That was good.
What I would change is to have built my layout where I had more room to expand. I used a space 4' wide by 9' long and built a great little layout (just like the picture in my mind), but then I wanted more. I looked at a lot of options and the only one that made sense was to run track around the furnace to a space on the other side. It works OK, but it would have been less dumb to have built the layout on the other side of the room - 20' with no furnace.
If I feel really ambitious some winter, I can re-arrange and get the layout away from the furnace. Still, it would have been much smarter to just build it there in the first place.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
I'm fortunate to have a room that is about 15x22 feet for my railroad. If I had it to do over again I'd make better use of that space. My pike has 22 inch r. curves and I would like to have 32 inch. I would go with the open grid style bench work instead of a flat plywood surface that relies on devices such as foam for my elevations. From watching a friend build his grid type I believe it makes it easier to install remote switch machines for those harder to reach turnouts. Even though 98 percent of my turnouts are within 24 to 28 inches of the aisle, when you start adding structures and scenery it gets harder to reach them. Those are some of the things I'd do for sure.
There is also a very good probability that I would switch to the modern era and a local area. I think I'm one of the few modelers in my age group (60's) that actually like large, modern diesels and modern rolling stock (over steam). Now you see the reason for the 32 inch R. curves. I also think I would do a better job making a more believable railroad if I worked from photos, GOOD photos of actual local, present day scenes. This doesn't mean I don't like steam.. , I do... and some would be prowling around.
Jarrell
I wouldn't bother attempting to convert my old locomotives to DCC. The process was nothing but a expensive headache and ultimately met with limited success. Instead, I would just purchase new DCC-ready ones and sell the old ones to someone who may be handier at that process than myself.
Paint the backdrop before setting up the railroad. It was difficult to accomplish otherwise, but I managed. Lighting falls under this category as well, however my lighting situation was adequate before construction started.
Use lighter benchwork. This was most noticeable upon moving.
Not paint over frogs when weathering track, or at least be more careful when doing so. That was a somewhat painful lesson in electric conductivity.
If I knew I would end up being limited to less than 30 square feet of real estate I would have bought in to On30.
Have fun with your trains
I would:
1) Simplify the layout...I'm actually in the process of doing that now...In the past it has been difficult to avoid the temptation of putting in too much track which made the layout look more like a theme park than a prototype railorad.
2) In keeping with the above.."less is more" philosphy..I would have a smaller locomotive and rolling stock roster...but one which is better detailed. Same for buildings structures etc.
3) I would put greater emphsis on scenary..I like modelling that better than modelling towns.
4)
If you are talking about my current layout, very little. I had this layout in my mind for over 10 years while still in my old house and still working on my old layout. When I started the current layout, I had a clear concept in mind regarding what I wanted and a well thought out track plan. With few modifications which I made during construction, it is pretty much the layout I had in my head for the 10 years I conceptualized it and what I put to paper. The two main things I would do differently are these:
1. I would not use foam as a scenery base. I'm not talking about creating scenic forms from foam. I am talking about using it in place of plywood in one of my principle towns. Yes it's lightweight but once it's in place on a permanent layout, what is the benefit of that. It's a real problem when it comes to anchoring things like switch machines to the layout.
2. I would have eliminated the bad "S" curve I created at one entrance to my main yard. The ladder begins immediately after the crossover into the yard from the mainline. This has been a source of many derailments and I intend to move the crossover farther up the line from the ladder. It will mean ripping out a good amount of ballast and other scenery but should smooth out operations.
Now if you want to talk about all the mistakes I made on previous layouts, that is a long list. First of all, it is important to start with a clear concept of what your railroad is going to be about. It will save you a lot of money in the long run since you will be less apt to buy things that don't really belong. My first two layouts were both freelanced UP. I bought all things UP without regard to era, locale, or quality. The other big mistake I made is I designed the layouts to create what I thought at the time were interesting scenic features without regard to how the railroad would operate. It is a much better approach to have an operating concept in mind, even if it is just running trains, and fit the scenery to the track plan rather than vice versa.
Probably would have started collecting butterflies or stamps and been retired by now
Frank,Here's my thoughts.
When I resume work on my N Scale layout come fall.I removed the Atlas track in May in favor of Kato's Unitrack.
1.I will continue to use Kato Unitrack since this is smooth bulletproof track work-a must for N Scale.
2.I will use nothing smaller then a #6 switch.I decided to give up some space for #6 switches since they give better reverse move operation with long cuts of cars then smaller switches.
3.Avoid switchbacks at industries that requires a car to be moved at one industry before switching another.
4.This time each industry will have its own track instead of two industries to a industrial siding.This will cut down on the number of industries but,it will be more prototypical.
5.I will continue to use Atlas locomotives and the better quality cars such as Atlas,Athearn,Red Caboose,IM Exact Rail,FVM and MT.
6.Keep everything simple by using the KISS method.
7.Use a form of "minimalist" modeling..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Wow. After reading through most of your responses, I'm happy to say that if I had to start over, I'd pretty much do what I've done up to this point! To wit:
I took about 3 years to plan my layout before I ever cut the first piece of foam.
I took about 5 years to completely gut and renovate the room where my layout now lives, so it's well lit, comfortable, and has modern wiring with enough juice to run the layout, an A/C unit, and the beer fridge...
I started the main section of the layout out in the garage where I could make a mess and use smelly adhesives without disrupting the family. It also afforded me the opportunity to lay the bench up on its side so I could do the wiring and aligning switch machines while standing up!
I studied other track plans and asked 9 million questions about operations, and started designing for ops first, then figured out where to put in a cut off or two to provide for lazy circle running (critical for the mental health).
I studied the heck out of my chosen prototype, so I knew what kind of operations to design for, and what kind of rolling stock and locomotive fleet I needed, what kind of industries the layout would serve, and what the scenery would look like.
I realized the importance of compromise and setting priorities. My goals included moving coal trains from the mountains to the sea, not modeling the brake gear on every single hopper car. Running the trains through realistic scenes was more important than modeling a particular stretch of track inch for inch. And giving the trains logical places to come from and go to was more important than just running trains.
I designed the layout 100% with DCC operation in mind. Soon I'll be needing to add a second power district, but I'm proud to say that other than a temporary reversing circuit, there isn't a single toggle switch on the layout!
Finally, I spent a great deal of time (maybe way too much) on-line chatting, questioning, challenging, and learning. Without this amazing tool for innovation and conversation I would still be in the stone age.
The one thing I would have done differently, is I would have spent more time documenting various projects with notes and photos. I've just had my first article published, and I'm pretty sure I have a few more in me...
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
Some great points to remember already posted!
What I wouldn't do:
1) Let the (future) wife talk me into throwing out all my MR mags (plus a couple of track planning books) from Jan. 1979 to Dec. 1992 because I "probably wouldn't need them again". I should've known better.
2) Get so far into debt that it will take many years to get out.
Things I would still do:
1) Listen to the advice from the older and more experienced modelers. There are very good reasons that they all tell you the same things over and over!
2) Try a small L shaped switching layout for practice. I didn't have it up long, but it refined some vague ideas and prompted me to force myself to do a lot more research and planning before taking on a larger project. The separate sections of the L will later become two staging yards.
3) Use cheap train set cars for 'filler' before I can afford to buy nice rolling stock. Getting them up to NMRA standards is good practice: IE:getting the wheelsets and trucks to be free rolling and not wobbly, and installing Kadee (or equivalent) couplers and setting the height, and weighting the cars following standard practices. I use cars that are the right length for my chosen era (40 ft) even though they're the wrong era or type of cars, and these were all left overs from my train set years, so the cars were free. They now run well and will do until I can build up a roster of quality appropriate era rolling stock.
4) Start by buying DCC ready locos. I plan to have DCC later, but can run in DC now. I'd rather not have to modify and wire DC only locos. That time can be spent doing something I actually enjoy: building kits, scenery, etc...
I would have:
-Designed my layout completely on a software program which allowed me to actually operate trains on it like Auran Trainz.
- Gone with DCC right from the start.
- Hand lay all visible trackage! I know, I know, hand laid track isn't as "realistic"as it doesn't have tie plates, the spikes are over sized etc... But there is just something about the look of hand laid track that is really appealing to me.
- Planned the location for bridges better.
- Run all under layout wiring BEFORE starting on scenery!
- Install ground throws at the same time I install the switch.
- George
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
Hi from Belgium,
1. A shop where I can find good items to build my railroad; that didn't exist in Europe just a few and they are far from my house.
2. Second the dead of the European style spaghetti railroad enhanced by Marklin.
3.The birth of a good coupler looking more realistic and with the coupling/uncoupling feature like the MT and Kadee's ones, for the European models in all the scale.
4.Hope to see a European layout build for operation and not just for running the trains. ( again the spaghetti virus).
5. Hope to see Peco making a new line of code 55 in Nscale with an American style like their new line of code 83.
6. Hope to finish my Maclau River RR and put a day the golden spike.
7.Hope to see more good articles about layout construction from A to Z like the old series about the Jerôme and Southwestern on the San Juan RR; we have learned so much just with these two series and the methods of building them are so easy to use.
8.Hope for everybody here, that they can reach their trains dreams.
Marc
We built this long hidden track at the club but it made the train dissappear for a period of time, I never liked that.
My goal is minimalized hidden track, and try to No-Lix, no Helix, the track might spaghetti bowl a bit but thats going to be by design.
da_kraut what would you do if you had to start over again
2. Get books on chosen RR, and join the appropriate historical society.
3. I would tell a new person to operate on many model railroads before deciding what I really like to do with the toy trains. I've done that so I would not have to start over.
4. Based on #1 and #3 above using the research in #2 above choose an time period (much more specific than an era) of about 5 to 10 years most to model.
4. Design a layout to match the prototype I choose in #1 with the operational characteristics I choose in #3, appropriate for the time in #4.
5. Take more pictures of the layout and evaluate what I see critically before I decide it is "good enough".
6. Hand lay more track and scratch build more stuff while I am young enough to do it.
7. Don't get so excited about projects that parts are purchased and/or more get started than are possible to finish. Buy more books instead.
------What I would do the same---------
1. Stick with Kadee couplers2. Stick with good enough cars (Athearn blue box are fine with a bit of tuning). I am operationally oriented. With heavy operation by all sorts of people, detail gets broken off of or bent on the high end cars. Keep the good stuff for exhibition runs and photo ops. 3. Stick with command control - control the locomotives not the track.4. Keep plywood sub-roadbed and cork roadbed. Tried all sorts of other things and keep going back.5. Wait for what I want to be on sale. Ignore the "limited edition" sales hype. They always come back on eBay, swap meets, etc. Usually for a lower price. If not - well there will always be something better later.
markpierce lvanhen I would have had a lot more fun in high school & college!!! Yeah! Been there! I treated them as a job and not as an experience. Mark
lvanhen I would have had a lot more fun in high school & college!!!
I would have had a lot more fun in high school & college!!!
Yeah! Been there! I treated them as a job and not as an experience.
Mark
Same here. I have had more fun in college than high school. I will be glad when I get out though.
Lets see, my list would include.
1. Not spending so much effiort on the Life-Like (train set quality) products when I was a kid. They were cheap and easily available. To this day I have turn down those products at train shows.
2. I wish I had used the space in my parents garage for a small layout when I got the chance. Oh well, maybe one day I'll hit the lottery jackpot and find a huge place to house a decent sized layout (maybe 100' by 50'), but a man can dream, right?
3. Not do so much impulse buying. Just because it is at Hobby Lobby on sale does not mean I have to have it.
4. Don't rush when building a structure. I don't get to detail them like I want when I do that.
Will
Trust my instincts ("gut") rather than the exhortations of others. (In hindsight, "gut" was right 98%, others' exhortations 2%. Never did follow my "gut" enough.) Oh, wait a second, that's about life. Model railroading? I say have fun learning and experiencing!
I would not have gotten married - even once!!
"Everything"
1) Would not use spline subroadbed rather birch plywood.
2) MORE ROOM, would definetly have found some place to put all the junk accumulated in the basement to make room for trains.
3) Less is More, Better quality locomotives rather then having a large roster of Ok quality stuff.
4) would have gone to DCC right off the bat instead of starting back with what I knew and was comfortable with. "I'll never have a layout big enough to warrant DCC so why spend the money"
5) Plan plan and plan some more before starting anything.
6) Narrower bench work no scene deeper then 30" for my taste
7) Prepared the layout area much better, especially lighting.
8) Better quality of rolling stock, metal wheels and all KaDee metal couplers.
The main thing I would NOT do [again] is rush to start a layout without having the proper infrastructure already in place.
When my wife and I decided to buy the house we're living in, I figured that the built-in two-car garage was ready to go. As for heating and AC, nada problem, I'd just run some extra ductwork thru the wall...
WRONG! I discovered our central heating/AC plant had exactly the capacity to cool the rooms of the house it was already connected to, the previous owner sized it that way to save money [he wasn't a mrr, go figure]. So I had to cough up money for a new heat pump and some insulation for the ceiling and walls. That garage was intolerable in the winter and summer, so my trackless benchwork just sat there for 4 years until my wife got another job and we finally could afford to buy the heat pump and insulation.
As for other 'never-agains', my layout has duckunders - but I was forced to use them if I wanted to be able to do continuous running. One of those 'compromise' things. If I can ever get rid of the built-in wall shelves I'll be able to build an around-the-walls layout, maybe even without duckunders.
-Ken in Maryland (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)
I wouldn't have "gone with the flow" and thought I would ever model the local Class 1 railroad, and would have started stockpiling narrow gauge equipment a long time ago.
If I were starting over I would not
1. Start in HO scale. (start in S instead)
2. Build a 4x8 table top for my first layout (use 2 sheets of plywood for 5'4" x 12' instead).
3. Build the layout before finishing the room (at least cover the insulation)
4. Move (wish I could control this)
5. Have 2 ft aisles (short passage yes, but not the whole aisle)
Things I would do again:
1. Join the NMRA and the NASG
2. Subscribe to MR and RMC
3. Use metal wheels
4. Use Kadee couplers
5 Weight cars to NMRA RP
6. Have fun
Enjoy
Paul
1: Plan out your staging yard WHILE you're planning out the rest of your railroad (my major DUHHH!).
2: Plan out your feeder leads BEFORE you've installed the scenery. Those rail connectors might LOOK solid for the first six months or so, but they're going to loosen up eventually!
3: Don't get your aisle between your engine facility and that grade across the aisle so narrow that you suddenly realize that the turntable WON'T fit in. Unless, of course, you want to 'hinge' it.
4: Make sure that the loco facilities for your helper districts are at the BOTTOM of the grade. (not on my present one, but on my last one. At least I learned THAT much! )
5: Don't be afraid to adjust the scenery if that beautiful rock outcropping is so close to the curve that your articulateds are hanging up on it. It's only plaster, LOL!
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
I'm starting over in Sept. on a new "L" shaped shelf type switching layout. ( My second one of this type ) and FOR SURE I am NOT going to try to cram too much trackwork/industry into too little space. I'm always tempted to try to fit "just one more turnout or industry" into the space I have and it ALWAYS ends up screwing-up my plan.
Jimmy
ROUTE ROCK!
First thing that started my problems is I converted a HO scale slot car track to a HO train bench sort of by accident! Was looking on E-bay for tress and bought a cheap Life Like Train set. After that I was a train junkie.
1 I would never use 2 X 4 again as frame work! There is no such thing as a straight 2 X 4! Slot cars don't care about humps in the bench.
2 Bench is against the wall and is 4 foot wide. Fishing off a single slot car is way different than a derailed train.
3 Don't cover the bench with green out door carpet. Again it was laid for the slot car track not the trains.
4 Don't think your floor is flat! My bench is 38 inches all the way around from the floor to the top. But there is a grade of around 1.5%. It is in the garage, grade is so water will drain out. Again the slot cars could care less.
5 Just because the engine cost a lot, don't think you will not have problems with it. I have opened up more $250.00 plus engines than $55.00 engines.
Things people would think I did wrong but glad I did.
1 Buying used engines of E-bay. Now I am not talking about cheap pancake motor engines. But worn out Athearn and Protos. Lot of people told me I was wasting money and my time fixing the junk. Yes I had to fix them and spend some money, but I learned how to fix them. Because of the $10.00 engines off E-Bay I knew how to fix the New $250.00 plus engines that wore out. Better to fix a $600.00 Big Boy than wait 3 months to get it back.
2 Cheap Bachmann and Tyco rolling stock off E-Bay. Again I was told I was wasting my time. Again I learned how to make them free rollers, add Kadee Couplers and add the needed weight to make them track well.
3 18 turns, made me build better cars and fine tune the engines better. Now, I am glad I have a 18 turn left? No! At one point I was just happy to get the train around the track, but now I think they do look goofy. But yet I can pull 60 cars around the last 18 turn!
4 Bachmann E-Z DCC system, boy I got a lot of stuff about running one. But it got me started with DCC and still was a great way to get started
What I would do over?
1 Around the wall with lift out. Can have way bigger turns.
2 No wider than 3 foot unless it it is free standing.
3 6 Main lines, not just 3.
4 Don't be afraid of grades.
5 Read more about DCC and understand the terms better and understand the quarter test. Not understanding the quarter test cost me $200.00 plus in decoders.
6 Use foam over all of the bench top, easy to work and paint. Beats the heck out of carpet!
7 Don't but Athearns Big Boys, bought 2 of them and all where sent back to the LHS and then to the scrap yard.
New section.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust