Andre,
Brakie,I don't expect "average Joe" model railroaders to buy these O-B cars. They are not generic enough to appeal to anyone who models a RR that had smoothside lightweight cars, unless they did indeed have these cars. They have a turtleback roof and they are flush riveted, which makes them fairly unique.
They are also at a price point that strongly discourages picking one up just because one likes the pretty colors. I feel the same about all these passenger trains that Walthers brings out even at half the cost of the Rapido's. That "Empire Builder" sure looks pretty, but I wouldn't buy one because my hobby dollar is better spent on things that support my NH addiction, ahem...I mean layout.
But these O-B cars are almost a "must have" for any NH fan. The NH had over 200 of these types of cars (69 10-window, 101 11-window, 30 smokers, and 5 Grill cars), built from 1934 to 1938. Of the 756 locomotive-hauled revenue passenger cars on the NH in 1956 (for example), the O-B cars made up over 27% of the total fleet. The O-B cars were the single most common passenger car-type on the NH in the post-war era.
Don't get me wrong, I don't enjoy paying $75 ea. for a passenger car. But considering my options (kits or brass), it's not bad at all. It's like the InterMountain NE-5 cabooses. They are $50 (twice the price of the Atlas NE-6's), but considering that the only other models out there are either $125 brass or $250 brass, $50 ain't so bad.
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
Now if you guys want to paty $75.00 a pop for a passenger car then by all means go fer it..Just don't expect the average joe modelers to do it.Not from what I am hearing..
You're comparing apples to oranges. You can get all kinds of passenger cars painted in SP "Daylight" colors in both N and HO scales. However, the only ones (so far) that are both immediately available AND prototypically correct are the Kato N scale cars which model the 1941 "Daylight".
Athearn's generic shorty cars are cheap. Nobody argues that. They are not, however, prototypically correct for SP "Daylight" (the 77' 1937 "Daylight" chair car hasn't been released yet and that one's slated to go for $60). If you're happy with generic shorties, more power to you. Just don't try to convince a knowledgeable SP type that you're modeling the 1939 "Morning Daylight" using a Bachmann GS-4 and Athearn shorties.
Just because it's a "passenger car" doesn't mean it's correct for a specific train and just because it's cheaper, doesn't mean it's a good deal. It has to be both cheaper AND prototypically correct to be a good deal.
You also don't have to pay $75 for the NYNH&H Osgood-Bradley's either. I've seen them advertised for considerably less. If you model the Bangor & Aroostook, you don't need a lot of them for a train. The "Potatoland Special" and "Aroostook Flyer" were both pike size passenger trains running 4-5 cars each, not all of which were coaches. Rapido also needs to do the baggage-mail cars in both green and the later gray with blue stripe scheme: http://www.railwayclassics.com/images/amflyer/BA04-4x.jpg Coach: http://www.railwayclassics.com/images/amflyer/BA01-4x.jpg
Not to mention the buffet lounge: http://www.railwayclassics.com/images/amflyer/BA03-3x.jpg
With a mail-baggage, coach, buffet-lounge plus a through 6-6-4 sleeper off the New Haven via B&M and MEC, you've got a nice pike size passenger train. Oh yeah, you'd need an E-7 to pull it. Nobody's going to do a BAR 4-6-2 ( http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bar/ba-s253.jpg ), but E-7's are readily available and BAR was fully dieselized in 1951. You could also use an F-3, which Athearn has thoughtfully done in its Genesis line.
Here's the 1954 schedule: http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track3/potatoland195407.html
BAR E7 #700: http://www.mainememory.net/bin/Detail?ln=17987&supst=enlarge
As I recall, BAR's two E7's were renumbered 10 and 11 some time in the early 50's.
Apparently Railway Classics was going to do the O-B's in "investment grade" brass. Care to venture a guess as to what the price of those would have been?
Andre
andrechapelonYou're comparing apples to oranges. You can get all kinds of passenger cars painted in SP "Daylight" colors in both N and HO scales. However, the only ones (so far) that are both immediately available AND prototypically correct are the Kato N scale cars which model the 1941 "Daylight".
And at a pretty reasonable price you could get a 10 car set no less. I don't think that I'd be buying that kind of thing simply because my shortline would need a lot larger passenger base to begin with. And while I may be something of a collector I tend towards wanting things that might be running out where my shortline is--not having them necessarily sitting in a display rack.
But then it does come down to priorities. The average joe might want something prototypically correct and what would he do? Save up to get it. It has been done by countless people before.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
TA462 I have around 20 of Rapido's passenger cars and they are simply the best passenger equipment I own and a far cry from my Athearn Bombardier GO Train cars. If your modest needs are satisfied with Athearn cars then great but don't think they are anywhere close to the same league that Rapido cars are in.
I'm guessing the community he's in is not quite in the same ballpark as yours or even mine are in--He did say something about them being in a working class area. But even then, I've got a few people who are on a fixed income(~$1700/month total: couple) who still feel that it is worth it to buy higher quality and will save to buy it. Especially those who model the specific prototypes---
TA462I find it funny that people where asking for a less detailed and cheaper Rapido car. Rapido in my opinion is built on detail. To make a less detailed Rapido car would only cheapen the whole line.
I'm going to suggest here--not so.
It is like anything else. Just because--I'm really stretching this point to make the argument--Rapido goes and makes a less detailed line should not cheapen the whole. What is it with this all/nothing argument anyways? There is no reason why having a less detailed 'line' should wipe Rapido's more detailed line into the garbage pail. This mindset: "All or Nothing", tends to bugger up a whole slew of things, making for unnecessary issues. Why should this make that huge a difference in the first place?
The idea that someone's created a very good model and people are asking for one not quite so good is a little odd.
Midnight Railroader TA462I find it funny that people where asking for a less detailed and cheaper Rapido car. Rapido in my opinion is built on detail. To make a less detailed Rapido car would only cheapen the whole line. The idea that someone's created a very good model and people are asking for one not quite so good is a little odd.
I'd really like to know how that would work, anyways. I could see something like that but---why not just go with Athearn then?
fwright Actually, MR did just that with a project layout in the '90s - in an attempt to build a layout for $500. And they used to sum all the costs for their '50s project layouts. While keep track of rolling stock costs may have made sense in the '50s when there was little choice, and most offerings were generic, the awesome selection for specific prototypes today makes duplicating MR's project railroad a lot less likely.
Actually, MR did just that with a project layout in the '90s - in an attempt to build a layout for $500. And they used to sum all the costs for their '50s project layouts.
While keep track of rolling stock costs may have made sense in the '50s when there was little choice, and most offerings were generic, the awesome selection for specific prototypes today makes duplicating MR's project railroad a lot less likely.
fw:
There's a little more to it. The emphasis on cost went kaput pretty quickly about the time LHW became editor, and we can be sure this was no coincidence. Read Westcott's farewell interview (a somewhat tragic one, with hindsight; he was clearly looking forward to an enjoyable retirement, but it would not last long). Included in his vision for MR, from the very start, were the following - to encourage readers to patronize manufacturers, and to draw more professional types, such as doctors, into the hobby. When you want people to buy, you don't emphasize cost, and Westcott seemed to feel that the professionals would be well-heeled enough not to worry about cost.
(He couldn't have known many doctors. Some of them are the most incredible cheapskates...)
Of course, there were always mavericks, like E. L. Moore, who held on that old-time cost concern a quarter century after it was unfashionable, and who wrote a LOT. This tended to dilute the impact. Bless the mavericks! Then too, there was a lot more to LHW than this particular vison. He seemed to have an opinion on everything. We've got a lot of those types in this hobby, which is bad because it only encourages me more. :D
TA462 You have people now buying Trainman loco's thinking they are just as good as the Classic, Silver and Gold series. Are they? I don't think so and I feel sorry for all the new modellers that are being suckered into buying them because they heard about Atlas quality and detail. I can't tell you how many times I've spoke to people at shows who truly believe that their Trainman GP38 is just as good as my Atlas Silver series GP40 they see pulling cars on my club layout. It's like they are looking down at me thinking I'm the sucker because I bought a more expensive unit, lol. In reality EVERYBODY wants the best and in my opinion if Rapido was to deviate from what made them popular then it would be like taking a step backwards.
I think that what ATLAS is doing is great. The idea of having that many lines works for them---it won't for RAPIDO, that I'm pretty sure of--but the problem of trying to say that a less detailed line is better than their gold series is just as stupid IMO as saying X is better than Y when it all comes down to what the customer wants.
Me--I'd just save the money up and get the more detailed lokes--BTW some of my recent switcher purchases did involve a lot of ATLAS Trainman series as well as gold--and there is a HUGE difference between the two-- in terms of detail/quality of fit etc.--and all of these came out of a fleamarket of all things.
There you go again with that insane idea of saving your money in order to buy what you want in the future. Gratification must not be delayed
It's HERESY, I tell you.
TA462It works for Atlas for now. Maybe they are hoping that Trainman purchasers will eventually step up and buy their more detailed higher end loco's in the future. I think of it as a bait and switch thing. Atlas baits the potential purchaser with a history of well detailed great running loco's and then sells a lesser product under the Trainman line to unsuspecting, new to the hobby model railroaders. I know my LHS has sold a bunch of Trainman sets so at least they are getting people interested in the hobby at the very least with the Trainman line.
And if that be so then all the more power to them. It's been done all the time----
andrechapelon But then it does come down to priorities. The average joe might want something prototypically correct and what would he do? Save up to get it. It has been done by countless people before. There you go again with that insane idea of saving your money in order to buy what you want in the future. Gratification must not be delayed It's HERESY, I tell you. Andre
I know, but what the hey--someone has to say it---Quixote with the ol' windmill here---yeah right--
Getting back to the "American Flyer" cars, the Rapido line is quite nice. However, I simply can't justify dropping that sort of coin on what is, after all, a toy. Mortgage and car payments take priority :p Besides, I already have a few of the ECW cars to play with. Once you've assembled them, added some piping underneath, fitted them with Kadees and metal wheelsets, and given them a proper Penn Central (yes, a few did run on PC trains!) they don't look too bad. Mix them in with some former PRR P70s,a GP7, '9, or an E unit (which may, or may not be in shiny black!), and you have a nice commuter train.
Seems to me that if these here internet-worky forooms existed some decades ago we would be talking about the price of those new-fangled and very detailed imported brass locomotives that cost 50 bucks when a perfectly good steam loco kit from Mantua or an F7 from Athearn was under 20.
George V.
The sad joke in all of this is that, prior to the rise of Internet forums, 90% of hobbyist really didn't know or care all that much whether their rollingstock was absolutely accurate or not and therefore relatively inexpensive, more or less generic, equipment was perfectly acceptable to the majority of modelers. If you wanted free-standing grabs or ladders, different doors, or see-through runningboards to match some prototype, you added them yourself...because you were actually a modeler.
With the coming of the Internet, hobbyists were told by self appointed "experts" what was accurate and what was not, along with it being implied that prototypical accuracy was the only way to model. Even today pretty much the same 90% of hobbyists still can't recognize the difference between a truly accurate model and one that simply conforms to general RR construction principles...unless they are told by the "experts", who continue to deride any new model that isn't accurate down to the last rivet.
The supposed need for ever increasing accuracy in our models has been and is currently driven by a relatively small faction of highly vocal individuals in the hobby, the consequence of which has been to caused the manufacturers to attempt to offer ever nearer museum quality models...at prices that are progressively moving beyond the range of the average hobbyist.
Those who have been in the hobby many years will recall that five decades ago, screwdriver-assemby, rather generic, brass models were priced in the $20 to $30 range (when far more crude diecast examples were similarly priced). In that era upwards of 50% of hobbyists owned at least a few brass cars or locos. As the demand for higher accuracy and for specific prototypes rose, so did the prices along with a decline in the number of modelers owning brass. Today brass ownership is a miniscule, vanishing, niche group within the hobby.
Be careful just how far you push the prototypical accuracy factor. Folks may be driving the hobby itself down the same road brass has already traveled.
CNJ831
CNJ831 Be careful just how far you push the prototypical accuracy factor. Folks may be driving the hobby itself down the same road brass has already traveled.
C:
I think the hobby itself will be fine, but I can definitely see the neo-RTR headed down that road - they get popular because you got more model for the same price, or not much more, but as cost goes up this starts going away. I think a lot of the increased detail on brass was a way of hanging on to the customers, when the price difference became greater, as much as it drove the price difference, and maybe we're seeing this with neo-RTR as well.
TA462I believe Rapido's reputation was built on trying to be the best in Canadian prototype equipment. To be the best of the best. They are known for their detail, just look at the crowds around their product displays at shows and any Rapido thread on any model train forum. The majority of the people out there all agree that their products are the best of the best. Even their customer service is one of the best but thats off topic. If Rapido was to go out and make a less detailed product then what point would that serve? Like Jason has already pointed out, a less detailed product would only be a few dollars less so why even bother. Look at Atlas and their Trainman line. Sure their Trainman loco's run the same as their Classic, Silver and Gold series but with far less detail. Is the couple dollars saved on production worth it? You have people now buying Trainman loco's thinking they are just as good as the Classic, Silver and Gold series. Are they? I don't think so and I feel sorry for all the new modellers that are being suckered into buying them because they heard about Atlas quality and detail. I can't tell you how many times I've spoke to people at shows who truly believe that their Trainman GP38 is just as good as my Atlas Silver series GP40 they see pulling cars on my club layout. It's like they are looking down at me thinking I'm the sucker because I bought a more expensive unit, lol. In reality EVERYBODY wants the best and in my opinion if Rapido was to deviate from what made them popular then it would be like taking a step backwards.
Some companies decide they don't want to make anything less than a premium product. They put a lot of time and effort into designing and building the product, and the price reflects that. Rapido has decided on that strategy. Making a cheaper version would damage their brand, because people have come to expect a certain level of product from Rapido. Rapido is probably quite happy with the volume of sales they have, and any increase in volume from a cheaper product may in fact not be worth it to them.
Then the usual argument comes up that Brand X is just as good but less money. But it is not a valid argument, because Brand X designed their product to sell for half what a Rapido product does. But it is not the same as a very accurate model designed from the start to be very accurate, and whose price reflects the time and effort that went into creating and producing it. Some people just can't grasp that.
How often have we seen paint schemes on locomotives that never would have had them? Or cabooses that looked nothing like the ones owned by the company whose name is printed on the side?
Like everything else in life, you get what you pay for. Be it rolling stock or digital cameras.
betamaxSome companies decide they don't want to make anything less than a premium product. They put a lot of time and effort into designing and building the product, and the price reflects that. Rapido has decided on that strategy. Making a cheaper version would damage their brand, because people have come to expect a certain level of product from Rapido. Rapido is probably quite happy with the volume of sales they have, and any increase in volume from a cheaper product may in fact not be worth it to them.Then the usual argument comes up that Brand X is just as good but less money. But it is not a valid argument, because Brand X designed their product to sell for half what a Rapido product does. But it is not the same as a very accurate model designed from the start to be very accurate, and whose price reflects the time and effort that went into creating and producing it. Some people just can't grasp that. How often have we seen paint schemes on locomotives that never would have had them? Or cabooses that looked nothing like the ones owned by the company whose name is printed on the side? Like everything else in life, you get what you pay for. Be it rolling stock or digital cameras.
Then the usual argument comes up that Brand X is just as good but less money. But it is not a valid argument, because Brand X designed their product to sell for half what a Rapido product does. But it is not the same as a very accurate model designed from the start to be very accurate, and whose price reflects the time and effort that went into creating and producing it. Some people just can't grasp that.
How often have we seen paint schemes on locomotives that never would have had them? Or cabooses that looked nothing like the ones owned by the company whose name is printed on the side?
Like everything else in life, you get what you pay for. Be it rolling stock or digital cameras.
Jason Shron - President - Rapido Trains Inc. - RapidoTrains.comMy HO scale Kingston Sub layout: Facebook.com/KingstonSub
Maybe they are trying the pricing technique that state of the art electronics uses. Early innovators pay the highest prices ( the guys that must own the latest and greatest equipment ) , and this helps pay the engineering design costs. Then, as the prices begin to drop, more buyers enter the market and prices begin to drop more as production costs are lowered. Just hang in there, there will be sales.
CNJ831The sad joke in all of this is that, prior to the rise of Internet forums, 90% of hobbyist really didn't know or care all that much whether their rollingstock was absolutely accurate or not and therefore relatively inexpensive, more or less generic, equipment was perfectly acceptable to the majority of modelers. If you wanted free-standing grabs or ladders, different doors, or see-through runningboards to match some prototype, you added them yourself...because you were actually a modeler.
I'm kind of puzzled by the issue of why the idea that one could take an ATLAS trainman and do the modelling part themselves is now a problem. I'm thinking of doing something along that line with the addition of plows, MU's and all that for the fronts of the RS's I have--and I had people telling me that it was too much and why not just get them RTR?---mmm
CNJ831Be careful just how far you push the prototypical accuracy factor. Folks may be driving the hobby itself down the same road brass has already traveled.
Problem here is that one can see this occuring already in some fields--this point was raised in another thread---re RTR vs kits---
In my novel one of my protagonists goes into the local saloon and finds that the proprietor of fair establishment has raised the price of lunch and a beer from a short bit (10¢) to a long bit (15¢)--that, my friend, is a whoppin' 50%. He remarks to the keep as he flips three half dimes onto the bar that "I'll have to sell two cows just to pay for this lunch!"
I have related how in the early '70 I anticipated a new production run of brass diesel locomotives from Pacific Fast Mail; when I first got in the hobby ten years earlier these diesels were running somewhere in the vicinity of $29.95, a price that had been beyond my reach in those heady days. The new production came in at $79.95 and that put them as far out of my reach as they had been a decade earlier. Some NScalers will remember how, in the 1960's JC lowered the price of his Sekisui/Kato PAs from $29.95 to $16.95; these lokes were considered to be state-of-the art in those days. Anybody know of any $16.95 NScale diesels available on the market today?
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
TA462 For the cost of the extra detail items needed though it would be much higher then the average cost of a Silver series with the detail included when your finished. Is that a bad thing? I don't think so because your going to eventually end up with a better model and your having the enjoyment of building something.
Which brings up the question of cost vs the enjoyment of a DIY. I've been telling people about a certain gentleman in his late 80's who built his own home back in the 50's.He can look at the peopple around him and ask them whether they done anything like that and get the catching flies look--"Huh? How'd you do dat?". This fellow did everything himself---now you could be accused of being strange because-"-well---y'know---the pro's do it so much better--". And I'm not even talking about all the red tape either--
But it is true--I enjoy doing the dang things myself--regardless of how much it may end up costing--(last one I done cost me about $2.45 more than the Silver version--big whoop)
blownout cylinder CNJ831The sad joke in all of this is that, prior to the rise of Internet forums, 90% of hobbyist really didn't know or care all that much whether their rollingstock was absolutely accurate or not and therefore relatively inexpensive, more or less generic, equipment was perfectly acceptable to the majority of modelers. If you wanted free-standing grabs or ladders, different doors, or see-through runningboards to match some prototype, you added them yourself...because you were actually a modeler. I'm kind of puzzled by the issue of why the idea that one could take an ATLAS trainman and do the modelling part themselves is now a problem. I'm thinking of doing something along that line with the addition of plows, MU's and all that for the fronts of the RS's I have--and I had people telling me that it was too much and why not just get them RTR?---mmm CNJ831Be careful just how far you push the prototypical accuracy factor. Folks may be driving the hobby itself down the same road brass has already traveled. Problem here is that one can see this occuring already in some fields--this point was raised in another thread---re RTR vs kits---
Actually guys,A lot of modelers still add details to their RTR cars and locomotives.Modeling is not dead by a long shot...It has change in some areas like weathering,adding mu hoses etc...
And CNJ831,I would say 90% still buy generic cars and locomotives due to their limited hobby budget and modeling style...Ever wonder WHY Atlas really introduce the Trainman line? The TRUE answer to that question is only known by Atlas and they ain't tellin'...
110% modeling isn't as popular as many may think or may boast about on forums.
Speaking of forums..I know several modelers that don't bother with forums or yahoo groups because of the bickering..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
emdgp92,Just a toy, eh? Then why even bother to detail it or paint it? It's just a toy, right? You seem to be spending an awful amount of time building these kinds of toys, then detailing, painting and then talking about them (1200 posts in 6 years). Why don't you just buy some nice Athearn passenger car toys? They are less than half the cost of the ECW toys, and the money & time saved would be better spent elsewhere, right? Sheesh.
Maybe it's just me, but I tend to get annoyed when folks downplay my hobby as something meant for children to play with or something that's unimportant (the definition of the word "toy"). It's obvious that it's not as important as family, career and health, but that doesn't it make the hobby unimportant, at least to me. YMMV
George V,Just go back and read old letters to the editor in old MR's and you'll see plenty of kvetching about everything (6v vs. 12v, wood vs. plastic, scratch vs. kit, etc.).
CNJ,Hmm... I was into "serious" model railroading by 1990, and I didn't get my first PC modem until 1996. I can assure you that I wanted accurate NH models and not generic models long before I discovered internet groups. I guess I was just one of the 10%'ers, right?
About the brass market, I think the brass market it dying because plastic is killing it. Brass has always been more expensive (when those models you're talking about were $20 or $30, how much was an Athearn F7A? $5 or less?), but if you wanted something specific that plastic didn't make, then you had to buy brass just like today. But back then, that was the majority of the prototype because plastic only made the most generic stuff out there to cover the widest possible market to recoup their investment.
Now that high quality plastic diesel locos of almost every kind are being made at 1/5th the cost of a new brass diesel, and when high quality "hybrid" steam (w/ DCC and sound) is being made at 1/3rd to 1/4th the price of new brass steam, the market for brass just went "poof". It's not that they priced themselves out of the market, they just got undercut like never before.
For example, before the BLI version, if I wanted an RTR NH I-5 4-6-4 model in HO scale, I had to buy brass. Both NJ/Custom Brass and W&R imported versions of this loco. In the mid-1990's, the early-1980's NJCB was going for around $400 unpainted, $500 painted at Springfield. The 1990's W&R version started at $800 and went up from there. Recently, Broadway Limited came out with their hybrid I-5, and I got mine with DCC and sound for $359. Shortly thereafter, PSC released a new brass I-5 for something like $1000 to $1400 or so (without DCC or sound), and BLI even produced an all-brass version for around the same price. Why would anyone buy a 4-digit price tag for a brass loco when one can get a hybrid for $359 that has equal quality and performance? Now, if the hybrid version didn't exist, I think more people would have bought either PSC or BLI brass, but the existance of the hybrid just had to kill their sales.
In order for the plastic hobby market to go down the same path as the brass market, there would need to be another type of production that would undercut plastic. Perhaps some kind of 3D solids protocasting? You know, you download a file of a GP9, send to to an manufacturer that makes one-shots, and a week later you have a finished product that's cheaper than Atlas/Athearn/Kato? I dunno, something like that.
blownout cylinder Which brings up the question of cost vs the enjoyment of a DIY. I've been telling people about a certain gentleman in his late 80's who built his own home back in the 50's.He can look at the peopple around him and ask them whether they done anything like that and get the catching flies look--"Huh? How'd you do dat?". This fellow did everything himself---now you could be accused of being strange because-"-well---y'know---the pro's do it so much better--". And I'm not even talking about all the red tape either-- But it is true--I enjoy doing the dang things myself--regardless of how much it may end up costing--(last one I done cost me about $2.45 more than the Silver version--big whoop)
bc:
I've got a friend, a welder and industrial maintenance man, who is building a garden tractor somewhat like the old Economy out of various items. I've been, er, shanghaied as consulting engineer for this project.
Reactions have been interesting. At first, I thought he was nuts. People at the salvage yards always asked what the auto parts were for, and then they asked "why"? His answer.."Because I can".
He told that to one old-timer, and it pleased the guy to no end. He said he remembered that kind of thing, from years ago, but he hadn't seen anybody build a "hoopie" for ages.
"Because I can". It's a good answer. Why do we climb mountains or write books?
Paul3In order for the plastic hobby market to go down the same path as the brass market, there would need to be another type of production that would undercut plastic. Perhaps some kind of 3D solids protocasting? You know, you download a file of a GP9, send to to an manufacturer that makes one-shots, and a week later you have a finished product that's cheaper than Atlas/Athearn/Kato? I dunno, something like that.
AH NUTZ!! Now you've done did it!!---I have a friend who is into that very thing--doing 3D Protocasting---He's got this idea of using a cnc milling machine that we bought and doing something like that. There are scads of these things/ideas flapping about right now so who knows when that might occur---
It is surprising that most of those who posted on this topic did not indicate if they would or would not purchase passenger cars at these prices.
I myself will not. I can and do peruse that evil auction site and continue to accumulate mainly Walthers cars, both heavy weight and smooth-sides. I usually end up paying around the $25 mark per car, have also purchased a number of BLI CA coaches which I consider premium grade for around $40.00.
Perhaps the new coaches coming on the market will be heavily discounted as some posters have indicated.
don7,Well, I can't speak for most, but I'm getting 4 cars in the first run. I would purchase more, but my hobby money is a little restrained these days.
Normally, I would not buy $75 passenger cars. For example, I don't buy Walthers passenger cars, Branchline cars or Rapido cars when I'm buying them for my club's home RR. I buy Con-Cor & Rivarossi cars at approx. $10 ea. at train shows. I don't really care about being accurate or even being all that much concerned for quality when I'm buying for the club. These cars need to be a little tougher than most because they get abused a little bit more than one's own stuff. I also need some 20 or so just to make two trains worth, so it adds up quickly. But for all their downsides, these cars are 85' long and look decent from a distance, so I pretty much don't care.
However, for my New Haven collection and my NH layout, these O-B cars are a "must have". As I said, these cars were over 1/4 of the NH's fleet in the 1950's, and these cars ran on the NH from 1934 to 1968 (and beyond on the PC, MBTA, etc.). If you want to accurately model the NH's mainline (which I'm doing), you need these cars.
I have paid $75-$100 for a brass version of these cars (I have a Grill and a 10-window coach), and the $75 one was without trucks. The Rapido's blow these brass versions away.
Don7--I'm not buying them simply because I'm not modelling that line/service what-have-you BUT I have suggested to some people after seeing the things that they should look into them. One already went after a Turbo unit....
To this little puppy I'd say that Rapido is the best when it comes to detail---
This thread has gotten rather heated at times. Interesting but heated.
Anyone else remember the storytelling comedian Myron Cohen who used to appear regularly on the old Ed Sullivan show telling jokes and stories in a heavy Yiddish accent? One of his better stories reminds of this topic.
The woman is at the butcher shop and asks for lamb chops. The butcher says they're $6 a pound.
"$6 a pound" she yells. "That's outrageous. Schwartz has them for $5 a pound."
"So buy from Schwartz" the butcher shrugs.
"Well Schwartz is all out" she says.
The butcher replies "To tell the truth, if I was all out, they'd be $4 a pound"
Dave Nelson
Dave Nelson- I think I even have a record of his somewhere in my collection as well---dang one that!!
I think this thread proves you can get heated and NOT get locked up/out---let's hope it stays this way