Replacement Metal Wheelsets...What to use? Kadee, Proto 2000, Intermountain?

[mondotrains]

I got a quote from a guy at fshobby.com (Flying Scottsman Hobbies) who would sell 1,000 Intermountain wheelsets for $455.00, including shipping, which works out to about $5.40 per 12 wheelsets. Their normal price is $49.99 for 100 wheelsets. Trainquest.com also sells 100 wheelsets for $49.99. I found a site called modeltrainstuff.com that sells Proto 2000 wheelsets for $3.99 which is half of the list price. Therefore, with these quotes, the Intermountains work out to about 45 cents per car more than the Proto's. For a roster of 400 cars, Intermountains would cost $720.00, the Protos would cost $533.00. Bottom-line: It may be worth the additional $187.00 for the Intermountain wheelsets. Heck...when you're spending hundreds...what's another couple of hundred?

Hope this helps!
Mondo

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Mondotrains,

Where are you buying Intermountain wheel/axle sets for the prices that you're indicating? I would be interested if this business deals by mail. [;)]

Here in Tampa, the price difference between Intermountains and Proto 2000 wheelsets is in "dollars". A pack of Proto 2000 comes with 12 axles for $8 ($6 on the web and train shows). Intermountain packs come with fewer axles (forgot how many) and sell for $11 and some change. [B)][:0][:p]

Yes, price is what a lot of us base our purchases on. but I agree with you in the context that if the difference in quality is significant than the Intermountains are worth it.

I currently don't have a layout, just a 7ft x 1ft long multi track shelf hooked to an MRC power pack that I test locomotives and cars on. I haven't experienced any P2Ks being Out-of-Round, but since Trainnut1250 mentioned it I'll double check my cars.

Thanks, guys! [C):-)][8)][:)]

[AntonioFP45]

Mondotrains,

Where are you buying Intermountain wheel/axle sets for the prices that you're indicating? I would be interested if this business deals by mail. [;)]

Here in Tampa, the price difference between Intermountains and Proto 2000 wheelsets is in "dollars". A pack of Proto 2000 comes with 12 axles for $8 ($6 on the web and train shows). Intermountain packs come with fewer axles (forgot how many) and sell for $11 and some change. [B)][:0][:p]

Yes, price is what a lot of us base our purchases on. but I agree with you in the context that if the difference in quality is significant than the Intermountains are worth it.

I currently don't have a layout, just a 7ft x 1ft long multi track shelf hooked to an MRC power pack that I test locomotives and cars on. I haven't experienced any P2Ks being Out-of-Round, but since Trainnut1250 mentioned it I'll double check my cars.

Thanks, guys! [C):-)][8)][:)]

[Anonymous]

Mondo,

I like all except the Kadees (I dont seem to have good luck with them fitting the trucks). I usually use proto wheel sets. I have noticed that they have more out of true sets than the other brands. However, I think that replacing plastic wheelsets with any of the sets mentioned in this thread is a good thing and we are talking about shades of grey. The drawback to metal sets is more possibility to short at switch points. Especially a n annoyance using DCC.

Guy

[mondotrains]

I really appreciate your input regarding the different axle lengths. I would have hated to buy over 1,000 Proto 2000 wheelsets just to find they fall out of some trucks. I've discovered that I can buy Intermountain wheelsets in large volume for just a little more than Proto 2000 wheelsets. It looks like the fans of Proto 2000 wheelsets might be basing their input mostly on price. The way I look at it, if it costs me 10-20 cents more to equip each of my 500 car roster with Intermountain wheels instead of Proto 2000's, that's a small price to pay given what I have invested in the hobby thus far.

Mondo

QUOTE: Originally posted by nfmisso

P2K, IM and Kadee use different axle lengths; I measured 1.008", 1.013" and 1.018" respectively. On a truck that is working well with Kadee, P2K wheels will fall out. NWSL offers three different axle lengths and four different treadwidths/profiles for HO standard guage. Reboxx has dozens of axle lengths.

[AntonioFP45]

MichaelFarley, Nfmisso

Thanks!

I would much prefer "36 wheels. I'll try the filing route. [;)] If worse comes to worse, I'll take the shoes off as to me the wheel size difference would be much more noticeable than mssing brake shoes. In my case since Seaboard Coast Line passenger trucks were black, anyway.

I know that there is the opiton of using Intermountains, but in considering all of my passenger cars, the intermountains are expensive. I will, however, try one set. From what I've heard, they're excellent!

Peace out! [:D][^][8D][:)][8)][swg][tup]

[nfmisso]

P2K, IM and Kadee use different axle lengths; I measured 1.008", 1.013" and 1.018" respectively. On a truck that is working well with Kadee, P2K wheels will fall out. NWSL offers three different axle lengths and four different treadwidths/profiles for HO standard guage. Reboxx has dozens of axle lengths.

[michealfarley]

Yes, there is a small problem with the Rivarossi-Proto 2000 combo.

There are two issues here. The first is you must use the Micro-Mark bearing tool for the axles to fit end to end properly.

The second issue arises if you use the 36" wheelsets, which would be correct. The brake shoes actually work on the 36" wheels, and prevent the set from turning properly. One of two options, either file or remove the brake shoes, or use the smaller, but not prototypical 33" wheelsets. It's all in your preference. All my undercarriages are black, so I cut off the brake shoes, and I don't even know they are gone.

Micheal Farley
Fargo, ND

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

The ribbed back actually is a outlawed technology on prototype roads as of the late 30's.
The wheels have to be turned so many times before they are unsafe to be used (sorta like brake rotors) eventually they get scrapped. The ribbed material on the backs supposedly assist in cooling during long braking.

Lee

The December 2003 issue of MR had a guide to freight car trucks. The ribbed back wheels were made of cast iron with a steel tread welded to the wheels. The ribs were used for cooling the wheels, as Lee stated.

Modern freight car wheels have either a 1W or 2W rating. The 1W is scrapped after the tread has reached the limit of wear. The 2W have a thicker tread which can be reshaped and returned to service. Obviously, the 2W wheels are more expensive, but they pay for themselves because it's cheaper to reshape the tread than to buy a whole new wheel.

[AntonioFP45]

[#ditto]

Nearly all of my HO freight cars have Proto 2000 wheel sets. I had been planning on purchasing Proto 2000 wheels for my Rivorossi passenger cars when I read on a thread back in February that there is some type of problem with the Rivorossi trucks that won't readily accommodate the Protos. [%-)]

Does anyone have info on this? I'm building up my passenger car fleet. [:)][8)]

Thanks! AFP45

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

Buy a pair of line levelers and take the sights install them onto a Track Inspection Car (the one with the clear plastic see thru beds) and use that to build a siding that is level.

Lee

Great idea!! I have been using a level but think your idea is much better.

[ClinchValleySD40]

I prefer IM but use mostly P2K because of cost. They are also excellent. Don't care for Kadee. Every car gets reamed and metal wheels before going on the railroad (and Kadee couplers).

[Anonymous]

The ribbed back actually is a outlawed technology on prototype roads as of the late 30's.
The wheels have to be turned so many times before they are unsafe to be used (sorta like brake rotors) eventually they get scrapped. The ribbed material on the backs supposidely assist in cooling during long braking.

Now as for wheel sets, I buy P2k metal sets. Eventually all my cars have metal wheels. DOWN with PLASTIC Long LIVE Metal. I feel that the free rolling qualities assist on grades and the fact that they run away on any grade at a siding can be held back with either a bent paper clip or a very large pin.

Buy a pair of line levelers and take the sights install them onto a Track Inspection Car (the one with the clear plastic see thru beds) and use that to build a siding that is level.

As for track cleaning issues, there will always be dirty track. I deal with it when I must.

Lee

[Budliner]

I have p2k cars with the ribbed wheelsets these run very good best but whats the ribbed back do for me ? loadhandling



B -

[mondotrains]

Thank you for your help!

Mondo

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomotive3

GO IMs. They are all metal and will have greater free rolling ability. That's why I
replaced my stock 36" Walthers on their budd passenger cars

[Anonymous]

Hmm.. I am using Kadees right now, maybe I should buy some IMs or P2Ks and see how much better they are.

[mondotrains]

Thank you for the note!

QUOTE: Originally posted by michealfarley

Nearly every car in my inventory rides on either 33" or 36" wheels by Proto 2000. I swear by them. I feel they have a truer contour to both the wheel tread and the needlepoint, plus they fit almost every truck frame I have. The price is also very attractive compared to Atlas, Kadee, and Intermountain.

I've had some trouble with the Kadee axles being too long to roll freely in Walthers sideframes. I've had the opposite happen with the Atlas 33" wheels, that they can be too short to fit in most plastic sideframes, but the Atlas 36" are also good. A friend of mine uses a lot of them.

Also, to get a true bearing contour, buy the tool from Micro-Mark that you spin in the sideframe. It's worth the $12-15 over and over again.

I'll even put a shameless plug in for my wheelset "supplier", MB Klein in Baltimore. Cards are half-price, and if you buy a bunch, the shipping will pay for itself.

Micheal Farley
Fargo, ND

[Fergmiester]

I started to replace my wheelsets with Proto wheels by Lifelike and have had no problems with coatings coming off and I too use the CMX track cleaner with Goo Gone.

[Anonymous]

GO IMs. They are all metal and will have greater free rolling ability. That's why I
replaced my stock 36" Walthers on their budd passenger cars

[michealfarley]

Nearly every car in my inventory rides on either 33" or 36" wheels by Proto 2000. I swear by them. I feel they have a truer contour to both the wheel tread and the needlepoint, plus they fit almost every truck frame I have. The price is also very attractive compared to Atlas, Kadee, and Intermountain.

I've had some trouble with the Kadee axles being too long to roll freely in Walthers sideframes. I've had the opposite happen with the Atlas 33" wheels, that they can be too short to fit in most plastic sideframes, but the Atlas 36" are also good. A friend of mine uses a lot of them.

Also, to get a true bearing contour, buy the tool from Micro-Mark that you spin in the sideframe. It's worth the $12-15 over and over again.

I'll even put a shameless plug in for my wheelset "supplier", MB Klein in Baltimore. Cards are half-price, and if you buy a bunch, the shipping will pay for itself.

Micheal Farley
Fargo, ND

[dharmon]

I'm partial to IMs. Never had a problem yet with them.

[mondotrains]

Hi Folks,
I recently began replacing plastic wheels with Kadee metal wheelsets. I had just cleaned my track with an expensive track cleaning car I bought from Ton'ys Train Exchange. I've noticed that the brown coating on the Kadee wheels is dirtying my track. It was suggested that I remove the brown coating from the Kadee wheels with a wire brush in a Dremel but now I've noticed that the track is coated with a gray material which I can only assume is the zinc coming from the Kadee wheels...zinc is a fairly soft metal and it must be rubbing off the wheels when running on the harder nickel-silver track.
In speaking to a few other guys, they've suggested that I scrap Kadee wheels and go for the Intermountain wheels which are brass with nickel-silver plating. The claim is that they will NOT dirty the track like Kadees. The only problem I can see with the Intermountain wheels is that they are so "slick" that if there are any areas on my track that are not perfectly level, the cars will roll.

I can get the Intermountain wheels in large volume for the same cost as the Kadee's, so cost is not an issue.

Any comments or suggestions?

April 8th, 11:10 p.m. EST
This was my first posting and I've got to say I've really appreciated all the thoughtful and informed input I've received from so many folks around the country. Heck, several guys I emailed spent their valuable time responding to me...that's fantistic! My wife has been telling me that a "chat room" is the way to go to meet others in this great hobby and get answers and now I'm a believer. My hat is off to you guys! I only hope I can provide some assistance to others with their questions.
Mondo