***Philip, Yes, I'm asking about sound for the wife's HO Bach. Spec. 2-8-0.
***Jim, Thanks!
Been sorting through more Inlaw boxes. I think this MIL might qualify as a horder.
Well, back to work here. Rob
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Evening Gang:
Jim I caught that Milw Rd bug along time ago when I used to go down to the depot in Milwaukee and watch the trains come and go.
Nothing on the MRR front today. The entire downstairs is ether torn up or packed with furniture and stuff. The overflow is on the back poarch and on my layout in the basement. I will be so happy when this is over.
There is a combined US and Canadian exploriation going on in Lake Huron off Port Dalhouise. They are survaying and photographing a couple of ships that went down almost 200 years ago. They have seen that the ships are very well preserved looking almost as if they went down yesterday. The lakes are so cold at depth that anything will last along time.
Well it's time for chow.
Good Night All
Afternoon all. Windy here--North wind, and mid-eighties. Big, dry thunderstorm rolled through the Central Sierra last PM around Lake Tahoe, shot about two zillion strikes down, I have a feeling we may be hearing about some forest fires in a day or two. Lightning strikes tend to simmer for a couple of days, then burst right out. I remember that from working for the Forest Service up around Truckee in the summers I was in college. Got really bouncy!
Well, and I hope you all don't take this the wrong way, but I GOT MY ROCKS! Seriously, the Cripplebush rubber rocks arrived today by UPS, and they're pretty darned fantastic! I think I have enough to do the Buttes and maybe a few more areas on the opposite side of Yuba Pass. They're pre-painted--a little dark, I think--but once I set them in, I think I can blend them okay, dry-brushing with some WS Slate and Granite Gray--with a little Umber mixed in--the actual Buttes are a kind of weird color, a kind of 'reddish-brown-gray' granite with some darker basalt intrusions mixed in (if that makes any sense). I figured out what the rubber weighed against what setting in about an acre of either Hydrocal or plaster, and they're going to work just fine. What seaming I have to do, I can do with either Hydrocal or Sculptamold--probably Sculptamold, because it has a 'grittier' finish to it. And these Cripplebush cut very easily with scissors, so I can 'mold' them into pretty much whatever I want. Should be a fun next few days, me leaning over and re-doing the Buttes. Thank God for stepladders, LOL! Of course, if my next several missives are from the hospital, you'll know that I took a header through the scenery!
Hope everyone's doing fine. Hey, Jeff, I never asked, but did you install that handsome Elesco FWH system on the IHC 2-10-2? Sure makes it look terrific! I hear they're really FINE runners!
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Hello everybody...
It's good to see some model rr progress going on. Jeff is working on painting for his scene. Paul's MILW is acquiring locos to serve passengers in Texas. Fergie has been working on the crane and the power shovel. Rob's involed with the 2-8-0. Etc, Etc... great stuff.
Here's a link to a story about a locomotive that destroyed an Interstate highway bridge in Cincinnati that's unique to say the least.
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080521/NEWS01/805210387
Have fun everybody!
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
PS ...
Hello Tom.... I'm interested in the rocks. I hope to see pix. Maybe before and after installing, painting, etc..........
Also, Jimcg ..... glad you have warrantee on that car!
Garry--
I'm really SCOPED about these 'rubber rocks,' I'll post pics as I progress. Cripplebush recommends 'hot' glue to attach them, either hi or low-temp, so I'm ready for that. Got a WS 'low-temp' glue gun and sticks, since part of the rocks will be attached to foam scenery. I'm going to start tomorrow morning, I've already kind of 'spaced' them out on the Buttes, so there's going to be a lot of cutting and fitting. But hopefully, I won't have that really LARGE area of 'plain' granite anymore. Of course, I COULD have planned this whole thing before I built the 3' 'apron' on the front of them with Sierra City, so I could widen my return loop. But hey, the 'best laid plans', and all of that, LOL!
Evening folks-coffee in the old "hee haw" mug again. (Whew-I thought I was gonna get the top of the page again for the third night straight-I lucked out tonight. What's the record for consecutive "top of the pages?" (if there is one!)
Not much to report today-still no news on my comp. Worked a bit on my latest weathered train car this morning, which is based on a prototype I caught a few years ago, an Alabama & Gulf Coast ex Corinth & Counce, EX New Orleans Public Belt boxcar. The car is a weathering dream but to do right it's going to take a considerable amount of time.
Not going to be up too much longer, as my Dad's coming over in the morning to look at my basement ceiling as I want to put in a slightly suspended one (to keep dust & dirt down of course), & he'd done it previously at their house so he wants to see how things are here & offer tips & advice. More than likely I'm going to change the lighting fixtures before I do that, but will take things one at a time.
Well, I'd better hit it-nite all!
Good Evening Diners!
Well yesterday was a very productive one on the boat front. I managed to get it washed, waxed and the bottom painting done too thanks to the help from my FIL. It wasn't very pleasant out there as the wind was off the lake and the boat is sitting on its trailer only about 50 ft. from the water. I don't think it was more than 40 or 45 degrees. I signed up for launch on Sunday so hopefully the weather co-operates. The launch process takes at least an hour as nothing ever goes completely to plan. The crane is stationary so we drag the boats to it using a 60 year old Massey tractor which usually runs out of gas sometime during the process. Luckily we don't have to drag them more than a few hundred feet as the Massey tends to smoke about as much as an Alco and it isn't even a diesel.
I made the mistake of dropping by the office today to pick up some documents that I have to get notarized and now I'll be going in tomorrow afternoon. Nothing breaks up the relaxation of even a few days off more than a few hours at the office. Oh well, as long as the cheques keep coming I guess I shouldn't complain too much. Anyway I do get 6 weeks holidays which is one benefit of being there half a lifetime.
On the RR front , I have managed to get about half the scenery done on my layout which isn't that much since it is only a 4x8 but nonetheless for a novice I guess it isn't too bad. I don't plan on doing much more over the summer but I do have a few kits to put together and then there is always the planning of the next change to the service yard. I want to add an engine house which means another slight change to the sidings. That is one advantage to sectional track which is a good one for people like me who can't make up their minds.
We have to take one of our dogs to the vet tomorrow morning for X-rays as he has a chronic cough and we need find out the cause. He is old so it is more a question of making him comfortable. The staff at the vets make a real fuss over him. Sometimes I wonder if its the fact that he has the thickest file by far of any pet under their care. Along with the thick file is a very large amount in vet fees, enough in the past 13 years to buy a very nice new car.
Well time to say good night so Good Night,
CN Charlie
Good Morning from Tipton IN !
Bill Tidler Jr.
Near a cornfield in Indiana...
Good morning All...Its sunny and cool here this morning....How about Ham and eggs,biscuits and coffee please..Thank You...Wow dinner is up to 99 pages already!....Not much going on on Pearl street this morning I finnished Combine yesterday and coupled it to Coach and ran for abit this morning...80 footers look kinda funny on my curves....
Jeff looks like a good start on your park can't wait to see more...gonna name it?...
Here comes my ham and Eggs...You all have a good one...Jerry
Good Morning........
Do we still have Ed's OJ remaining? I hope we hear from him soon.
CN Charlie mentioned vet bills for pets and he's correct about that. Another cost for our furry companions is the damge they do. Oh well, ya gotta love 'em!
Jeff .... Is that a new display shelf? I like it.
Jerry .......... I like your downtown scene and the passenger train.
Mitch and others were talking about cars we once had... It's been a lot of years since I had my 1962 Chevy Impala convertible. It once was my pride and joy. It was white with red interior and it had a convertible black top. ........... Oh those days of 29.9 gas......... Now why did I have to think of that?
Happy Model Railroading
Good Morning, Zoe - how about some eggs, bacon,
and a cup of coffee in a Rio Grande mug, please?
Thanks, Jeff!
Oh, Mitch - I think it's been fairly close race for TOP honors between a couple of Diners over the past year. You might ask PC or Flip (from Florida) about the record....
Garry, that was some accident with that loco - wonder if the truck driver had to change his britches afterward? Did some hefty damage to the columns, that's for sure!
I'd have to agree with you, Garry - it looks like several of our Diners have been making some MRR'ing progress. I should be getting more done on mine. Only (half-)excuse I have, is that I've been busy with trying to get my laptop and desktop Macs' files coordinated (and I really need a bigger drive in the PowerBook, but maybe I can order that now that payday has arrived.
Need to go pick up my order from our MRR club member/LHS owner tonight. That, and also get the bigger bills and such paid. Then I may check if I have enough left to order the hard drive (and maybe another MRR order).
Speaking of 'puters, it's good that your friend had you to go along with him to get his computer, Jeff. I like your collection/display of engines in that pic today. Forgot that you have a lot besides those you run/have on the layout.
BridgeTom, best wishes on a successful rock-planting session (or two, or...). You probably could stand some cooler breezes around your area, too, I bet. Looking forward to pics once you get it all done - I was checking out some of their stuff on the Cripplebush website the other day.
CN Charlie, hope your trip to the vet with your dog goes uneventfully well. Got to watch that stopping by the office, though. I'd suggest trying to just take any papers by around closing time, when they're in a hurry to leave anyway. Good to hear about your progress. Photos?...
Paul, hope you get your house 'upgrade' done quickly and can get back to a bit of MRR'ing.
Rob, I'll get to that email for you tonight. Sorry 'bout not getting to it last night.
Got my paperw**k caught up today, and the person who came in had to be seen by our other crisis therapist (oh, darn!). So I have time to stop in the Diner for a nice brunch. Speaking of which, I'll get to that now.
Prayers for Luc & Gloria - and anyone else in need of healing (or other needs). Our weather is clouding up today, and we might get some rain. But supposed to clear up for the weekend. Yay!
Blessings and prayers,
Jim in Cape Girardeau
Heartland Division CB-Q wrote:Jeff .... Is that a new display shelf? I like it.
Afternoon, all--
About 74 here in SunnyCal, with wind-gusts between 30-40 mph, blowing down trees right and left. Lady across the street ended up with her next door neighbor's fruitless mulberry in her driveway about 7:00 last night. Didn't damage anything, but missed her car by about 3 inches. Several of us went over and cut it up, then a chipper service came by this morning and took care of the rest of it. Nothing quite like the sound of chain-saws in the early evening, LOL!
The wind's supposed to die down this evening, and it's supposed to be partly cloudy around Northern Cal over the Memorial Day weekend, with thunder-showers predicted for the Sierra. Just hope the thunder-showers are accompanied by rain--this wind has dried everything out around here like crazy. In fact, there's a HUGE fire over on the coast in the Santa Cruz mountains--you can see the smoke on the horizon from here, and that's almost 180 miles away! Phoned my buddy in Santa Cruz, he said there's ash all over the place, but the fire is over the crest from the town and the wind is blowing to the east. Not a good Omen for the summer out here.
I hear the Midwest is getting slammed again by thunderstorms--hope no tornadoes!!
Jim--I'll post pictures when I can get started with the Cripplebush, but today I can't open the garage to get to the Buttes. I think I'll be filling in the Cripplebush with some hydrocal castings (the WS lightweight stuff--a little pricey, but does the job). I really like the detail in the Cripplebush, but I think that after I get them installed, I'll have to use a lot of weathering to get them to 'lighten' up to the grayish color of Sierra Granite. The castings are pretty dark. Can't do it with a step-ladder, have to use a full one so that I can lean in.
On another note: I got a big box of the Scenic Express 'instant' deciduous trees, and did some experimenting with them and WS 'Fall' foam in various colors, last night. Plus Aqua-Net hairspray (God, that stuff is like transparent CEMENT, LOL!). Anyway, I'm going to pull my WS 'clump' Fall trees and replace them with the Scenic Express. Much better 'transparent' texture, and I can regulate the colors better--I'm doing October, so some of the lower elevation trees are just starting to turn, while the higher elevation trees are in full color. Boy, let me tell you, 'retirement' just brings on a TON of little projects!
Hopefully, if the wind dies down, I'll open the garage tomorrow and start in on the Buttes. I've already got them 'mapped' out, and between the Cripplebush and hydrocal, I should be able to get them to look like 'buttes' and less like gray-painted plaster cloth.
Was at the high school this morning to give my last Final--the Principal, Fr. Facett came in and took me aside and asked me if I would be a Graduation, this Saturday morning. I said, of course I would, he smiled and said "Good, we'd like to give you a little presentation during the ceremony."
Like they haven't given me ENOUGH? Let me tell you, leaving that high-school is one of the hardest things I've ever done in my entire life! Great school, great faculty, great kids and a GREAT Adminstration (and how many teachers can say THAT about Administration?). I just wish I'd discovered that school about twenty years EARLIER! But I've left on a high note for both of us, so I feel good about it. Of course, I made the mistake of letting it be known that "If you don't find an accompanist, I'll come back and help on a strictly part-time basis." Hate to say it, gang, but I just MIGHT have left myself wide open--oh well--
Wind's still kicking up, think I'll go work on some trees. Models, I mean.
Hello diners ....
(Gee, it's a bit quiet here in the diner this evening. Come on in everybody. The food is outstanding.)
Tom, I recall you're saying that you were retiring from teaching in a non-public school. It sounds like everyone in the school will be missing you. To me, it's looking like private schools will be needed more and more. There are too many negative trends with those public schools. We now have grand children in a good church-sponsored school, and we feel that's best for the kids now. (oh, oh.... I can feel some soapbox stuff emerging now....) The church-sponsored school provides a far better education at a fraction of the cost to taxpayers of educating a kid in a public school. Yet, politicians keep insisting we spend more on education. Just about everywhere school taxes are rising rapidly while there is no corresponding improvement in the quality of education. Kids don't do there assignments and there are alarming drop out rates Too many schools have become cess pools of crime and drugs. Of course, don't allow God in those public schools and get attacked by the ACLU ....... I'd better quit that subject. It's too upsetting.
Meanwhile, back at the layout.......... Today I worked on a caboose. I'm modifying a Roundhouse wood caboose to resemble a Burlington branchline caboose with a side door for LCL. Also, I've been working on my "water" under my bridges. The Mrs. Hippy River was starting to look scruffy, and I'm correcting that. If Tom can have his rocks, I can have my water.
I hope RT is getting into his new home okay.
It was good of Der John to inform about Luc.
I hope Paul's eye continues to improve. Alos, best wishes to Jeff concerning his foot problems.
happy Model Railroading.
Evening Chloe - I'll just have a cup of decaf. Wanted to stop by on the way home to .
BridgeTom, you may indeed have left that door open on your 'retirement'. But sounds like it was definitely a good school to work in. Heck, if I'd have had a school like that, I'd still be teaching elementary and middle school art, I guess. Hope things go great on your rocklaying project.
Garry, best wishes on your water project, too. No need to apologize for that short step onto the Unfortunately, some people's ideas of how to fix things is to throw more money at it, instead of trying things that make sense or that really work (regardless of... okay, I'd better step down now, myself). Hate to think of what my grandson Drew may have as choices by the time he starts school...
Oh, I got a nice suprise today - the dealer called and said they had my car ready! They'd found an engine in the area (used) so they didn't have to wait to get it fixed. Got new oil and antifreeze and oil filter in the deal, too. Nice thing was looking at the 'bill' of about $3200, with the total of $0.00 at the bottom. Praise God, indeed! Glad for that warranty, oh yes!
Also got my MRR order in today. Alas, the F-350 truck I got in the order is the same color as the other one I have (black). Wonder if I can get the thing repainted neatly to another color...
For those of you familiar with contemporary Christian musician Steven Curtis Chapman, I heard some very sad news today. Last night, his 5-year old daughter Maria was accidently hit by her teenage brother on the Chapman property (near Nashville). One local station has links to info at:
http://www.khisradio.org
The brother was supposed to graduate from school in a couple of days, and Maria celebrated her fifth birthday not long ago. I was introduced to Steven Curtis Chapman's music about 16 years ago when I was getting through my divorce, and he writes some very meaningful songs. The Chapman family could use your prayers.
Time for me to head for home, like Jerry already did. I'll see everyone in the morning.
Evening Gang: We took the kids out to dinner. I had a really good steak and feel stuffed and ready for bed.
Garry I wish you hadn't gotton me thinking about school taxes. Here in Texas they spend millions on football The local school has a stadium that would be great for a college and I get to pay for it. Do they have a great computer lab? NO. Some thng is out of wack. Enough.
The UP is running a lot of trains with distributed power through lately. I talked to a friend who is an engineer on UP and he said that recently they ran a train that was 14,000 feet long. It came through us but I didn't know it. The next time I see him I'll have to give him a wack for not calling me.
Well I'm going to head for bed.
Evening folks-coffee for me, but not too strong for a change as tomorrow's my "early" day at work.
Weird, semi-eventful day. Woke up to pounding with a backhoe down the street, Dawn was out with her aunt & returned just as I got up to get my 1st java fix of the morning. Went to use the water & it was non-existant, & realized it was the water co. doing the work on the street. Dad showed up awhile later, & we went over the basement ceiling as to what I want to do with laying down the suspended type.
Later at work, I was called into our audio-visual dept. to put some stuff away, but the real reason was to keep an eye on a suspicious patron we've had before. He came in wearing an army coat with really big pockets. I really didn't see him do anything, but 1 DVD I noticed he looked at was shortly afterwards "not there." I was ready for my lunch period, & mentioned the fact to our A/V director, & while I was at lunch he was caught outside with 7-8 DVDs in his pockets, 1 of them being the one I told them my suspicions about. So he's now totally banned from the library, & if he comes back he'll more than likely be arrested for trespassing.
As I closed up work, I got a call about my comp-turns out the problem was the fan went out on it, causing it to overheat, hence the "freezing" after so long of use. Actually that idea crossed my mind at 1 point, but figured, "what do I know? it's probably something else!" Well, I guess I was right, & I'll go get it tomorrow evening & get things back into the swing of things.
Tom-congrats! One of the things I enjoy is running into some of my former educators. A few I wish I knew where they were now, so I can say hello to them. Some have just made the time I had with them just plain enjoyable, & some offered knowledge that I carry with me to this day. A good example is the "water moccasin" reply to Jeff.-The teacher that backed me up on where moccasins reside is retired now, & he & his wife (also a teacher) visit the library on frequent basis. One day I approached him & brought that up (although he wasn't my teacher-he was our guide on a class field trip at the time) & reminded him of what he said & how glad I was he backed me up. I told him I still pass on what he said to this day to the "moccasins in ohio believers", & he had a smile from ear to ear, & said, "Thanks-I really appreciate hearing that." Recently I found out my kindergarten teacher & her husband bring their '56 Ford down to our summer weekly car shows, & going to try to say hello & hope she remembers me. (sheez, that was 1971-72-we'll see, but I have one thing about me that may stick out in her memory-like I said, we'll see!)
We'll I better hit it-7:30 comes early-nite all!
Good Morning All,
A regular and a donut in a bag to go please Zoe. I will try to catch up on news this weekend but it's been a bit busy here lately. Travis crashed his Lotus 23 at Elkhart Lake last weekend so we've been a bit busy here. Bad weather again with cold temps, wind and spotty showers were a big reason as the suspension looked ok except where it hit the wall. This makes two weekends in a row and with my two best drivers so we have a bit of extra catching up to do in the shop. Both drivers were ok, just car damage.
More seriously, last Sunday, my friend Dick Shubar passed away. Dick was the force behind the O-gage display at the museum and a regular at our Tuesday night sessions and the after school program we run. Always ready to lend a hand and unfailingly enthusiastic, he will be greatly missed. The Tuesday night group has decided to dedicate the new O-gage display we are constructing to Dick and will get a plaque to honor him but really it's not enough. Dick was 68 and his lifelong passion and knowledge of things Lionel was unparralleled.
Well, it's been 14 hour days all week and more this weekend so I'd better get on with it. Next time out will be Watkins Glen at the start of a four week run of events so I'd better get on with it. I'll try to check in later. J.R.
Good morning.We have a pleasant 72 degrees here in the Sportsman's Paradise with cloudy skies. The expected high will be in the low 90's with a small chance of thunderstorms.
Not much going on today. I have a doctors appointment at 10am and a birthday dinner to attend this evening. I should be able to get some work done on my park scene in between.Today's Weather for: Sundown, LA 71446-6114 5/23/2008Heat Index: 77°FHumidity: 92%Dew Point: 69°FSo Far TodayHigh: 72°FLow: 72°FRain: 0.00"Rain Rate: 0.00"/hGust: 21mph NNE Today High: 92 Partly sunny with a 20 percent chance of showers and thunderstorms. Highs in the lower 90s. Southeast winds around 10 mph. Tonight Low: 72 Mostly cloudy. Lows in the lower 70s. Southeast winds around 10 mph in the evening becoming light and variable.
pcarrell wrote:Hey Jeff, tell 'em about your "care package" you got yesterday.
Read some interesting posts in here. The passing of a great Lionel modeller, a Loco holding up a bridge, Hazardous Hot Sauce, etc...
I would like to request "more layout & train photos" please!
Wife started getting bronchitis again, so is on a dose pack for that.
Took two hours to list about 4 items on the-bay last night. Not sure if it is my computer having memory trouble, spuratic bandwidth speeds, or what exactly. Gave up when it got late and will try listing the rest another time.
Hope everyone is doing well.
Rob
Good afternoon all...Its cloudy and off and on lite rain here...I'll have a pork Burger with cheese,onion Rings and a diet coke please...Thank You...I'm feel'in kinda proud of myself...after 2 days of messin with this old computer i got Emails deleted out of Inbox on Office Express..I finaly Googled it and found a bunch of folks have had that problem and a bunch of fixes after 6 tries I got one I could understand and it worked!! Who says a very old dog can't learn new tricks!...
Got tried of working on passenger cars so I started rehabing a 40 foot box...got trucks and couplers under it and weight this morning...Rob was asking about layout photos...You all probaly get bored with mine but here is a NKP SW8 on main passing a IC local at the Pennsy interchange at Greenup....
Jim....Sallie is a big Steven Curtis Chapman fan....He has some great songs...
JR....sorry to hear about your Friend at the museum...Do you do any work on any of the cars that run at Indy?
You all have a good Friday....Jerry
Morning all--
Nice, calm Friday out here in SunnyCal--wind stopped and supposed to be in the high '70's low '80's today. The fire over in the Santa Cruz range is about 3,000 acres, it's burned mainly in brush and chaparral, but it's also taken out quite a few homes in that area. It's south of Santa Cruz, mainly in the mountain range between Watsonville and Gilroy, if any of you are familiar with the area. North of where the old SP 'Coast' Line turns briefly toward the coast.
Southern Cal got hit with thunderstorms, mudslides and at least one tornado yesterday. Seems the tornado knocked a few freight cars around in Orange County. At least from what I've heard. Yes, we DO get tornadoes out here in "Shake n' Bake" territory. Weatherwise, this has not turned out to be a very great Spring for ANYBODY!
Mitch, Jim, Garry--don't get me STARTED on the problems with education around this area--the school systems in Sacramento are laying off teachers and programs right and left--of course the FIRST thing to go is Fine Arts, and the last is football. And College 'Education' courses for teachers working for their Credentials are a joke--they're still teaching teachers how to thread reel-to-reel tape and 16mm movie cameras in AV classes. Not the fault of the teachers, but too many of them are coming out of college so confused about what they're SUPPOSED to do, thanks to these "Education" classes, that after a few years in the classroom, fighting students, parents and Administration, they leave for other careers. It's really sad. At least the Catholic school systems appear to hire teachers because of their knowledge of the SUBJECT. And my Administration has always stood behind the teachers, thank God. I had a problem with one of my students during the first Semester, gave him a B- for his semester grade, parents came complaining to me, we had a meeting with the Principal, I showed them my documentation, the Principal simply said--in front of the parents--"Your son is lucky he only got a B-minus. I think that Mr. White was uncommonly generous." Parents actually AGREED (gasp!). Son left Choir and finished up his Fine Arts credit with Art History. Of course, the fact that the Principal is a Jesuit Priest might have had something to do with that, LOL! Okay, end of .
Heading out to the garage to map out the "Buttes" today, do some more experimenting and hopefully start gluing my Cripplebush on. Wish me luck, it's going to be quite a REACH for me in some spots. Hey, I'm a MUSICIAN, LOL! The two words "Plan Ahead" are not normally in my vocabulary!
Take care, everyone. I'll post photos.
PS: Cox 47: Don't ever feel shy about posting your photos here as far as I'm concerned--I LIKE 'EM!!