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Why does everyone hate TYCO so much?

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Posted by Train Guy 3 on Thursday, January 10, 2008 5:49 PM

Tyco was cool back when I was a little kid but so were any other trains. I would say Tyco makes an "ok" toy train but I would never classify tyco trains as model railroads. Tyco seemed more like sort of a fantasy type train sets. Tyco made toys and their trains were no more.

Back durring high school I built a model railyard for a seinor project. Tyco rail cars, turnouts, assesories, ect worked great... However they only worked great because I was not leaving my nice models out for the general student population to drop and break. Tyco does nothing for me these days. The only Tyco trains that get to grace my layout are Union 76 tank cars and even they are tucked away in a whole mess of tank cars on siddings.

TG3 LOOK ! LISTEN ! LIVE ! Remember the 3.

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Posted by on30francisco on Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:15 PM
I remember getting Tyco when I changed over to HO from Lionel in the late 60s. They were definitely inferior quality, poor running, and made me go back to my Lionels. The Lionels may have been tinplate and not to scale but they were built solid and worked well.
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Posted by philo426 on Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:50 PM
Railphotog,how's this for a '56?
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Posted by BlueHillsCPR on Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:42 PM
 PB-J RR wrote:

As a kid, I had TYCO trains, along with AHM, Bachman, Rivarossi, and a bunch of others...

As an adult with 15 or more years away from the hobby and coming back now it seems that most everyone has a morbid dislike of TYCO...

Perhaps I'm the exception that proves the rule, but I don't remember having a lot of trouble out of any of their stuff, or atleast no more than anything by any of the other makers...

I am not trying to stir up argument or insults just trying to understand. I was a kid, so maybe I missed something.

Yes.  My thoughts exactly.  As a kid my Tyco stuff was KING!  It worked well for me then and some of it is still working just fine today.  It's a curious thing...Confused [%-)]

I see many guys suggesting that TYCO was responsible for "driving" many people away from the hobby.  I guess my experience was unusual in that TYCO started what has become a love affair with trains and model railroading.  For that reason alone TYCO will always have a place on my layout and in my heart. Smile [:)]

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Posted by SteamFreak on Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:32 PM

 Dave Vollmer wrote:

Is anyone else getting tired of this magazine's spam advertising? Mischief [:-,]

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Posted by CAZEPHYR on Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:23 PM

 

 

I did a search for TYCO under HO trains and got 1012 items for sale.  Most of those items were inexpensive so for those who want TYCO, bid now because now is the time.

 

And why does anyone want to know what we think of TYCO.  Is this a test???

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Posted by SteamFreak on Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:22 PM
 cmarchan wrote:

Two years later I tried Life Like again - this time I bought the ALCO Century 415 locomotive. As with the RS11 due to the same construction, I ran poorly then quit.

I know now why I had trouble with them. They lubricated the motors with graphite! The graphite from the upper motor bearing would leak down onto the commutator and short the motor! Also the brush arms did not make good contact and caused poor operation.

What you probably saw was brush dust. Those motors were famous for grinding their brushes down due to the crude commutator. That dust can accumulate in the gaps and cause shorts.

The Consolidated Foods era is what generated so much antipathy for Tyco. I actually had good luck with my Chattanooga; it ran for several years, but then I wasn't running it on carpet. My worst experience was when I bought a Tyco Pacific in '76 with every penny I had to my name at the time. CF had seen fit to eliminate the brass driver axle bearings, and the resulting slop was so bad that the loco actually lurched side-to-side, and couldn't get the traction those heavy Mantuas were known for. It was a complete disaster, and soured me on Mantua until I discovered the reason years later. I even had a friend give me his because he had the same issues.

I can completely understand CF's decision though, since those 4 tiny brass channels must have cost a mint to produce, and they only sacrificed the running characteristics of a good basic loco in the process. Dunce [D)] Something to consider if you're thinking of buying an old Mantua steamer - stay away from the brown box-era Tycos.

Maybe this thread should be titled "Why does everyone hate Consolidated Foods so much?" 

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Posted by BRAKIE on Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:20 PM
 Railphotog wrote:
[quote user="C&O Fan"]

I'd be willing to bet your 56 Chevy is worth more than double your Dodge Today

Could be, but you couldn't GIVE me one in place of a newer car!

Tycos were TOYS, not model trains.

 

Bob,With what those 56 Chevs are bringing you can buy several brass engines.Some of those old 50 era jalopy's bring mega bucks even in poor condition and far more then today's high price junkers will bring use in 7-10 years.

I had a TYCO/Mantua 4-6-0 and that was a very smooth runner..

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by C&O Fan on Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:18 PM

Tyco's Operating Hopper Cars are still a big favorite and often bring as much as $20

each on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Tyco-Red-Box-Operating-Hoppers-C-O-B-M-Monon_W0QQitemZ130188796357QQihZ003QQcategoryZ19140QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

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Posted by steamage on Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:13 PM
There was a day when a Tyco GP20 was the only model made of that EMD diesel, and we would detail them up with Details West castings. Then there are the Tyco Flat cars I detail paint and decal SP, because I am building an SP flat car unit train. http://www.geocities.com/duncan2train/flatcar.html
Get right down to it... They did produce some well detailed models for us modelers to start with.

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Posted by choochin3 on Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:54 AM

I'm running my Tyco Santa Fe GP20 right now on my Unitrak floor layout!

 

Carl T.

I'm out Choochin!
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Posted by ICRR1964 on Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:47 AM

I cannot remember the date but I was about 14 at the time the 2-8-0 choo choo came out, It had smoke and a bridge and tresle with the set. It included a bottle of oil for the smoke unit in the loco and the tiny pancake motor in the tender. Got it for Christmas in the 70's, I already had some AHM, and the older 8 wheel drive Bachmann's that seemmed like they could do stump pulling and the first Atlas GP series. But this was the first steamer I owned. The motor lasted about 2 days pulling the five cars on my 4 by 8 layout, smoke unit worked great though. Guess I should not have put the bridge and tresle up on my grass mat.

The AHM C-Liners were great, they did make allot of low bass noise, that was the built in sound unit, it was neat. LOL!

I never hated the older cheaper stuff it had its ups and downs, but it was fun.

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Posted by shayfan84325 on Thursday, January 10, 2008 11:43 AM
 loathar wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't most brands of trains run like crap in the 60's-70's?? Even brass?? Unless you spent hours tuning them to run right?

You are probably right.  I modeled in N scale in the '70s and I was frequently frustrated at the unreliable performance and zero to sixty in milliseconds acceleration.  I remember talking to HO modelers who were frustrated with performance, too.  The advent of transistor throttles helped a bunch (I still use one of these), but I think you're right:  in that era, manufacturers put less emphasis on operation and more on visual appeal.

From what I've seen, both facets get equal emphasis these days.  We have better motors and better gears to go with great looking models, and DCC has opened a bunch of new doors.  Even the best that TYCO ever offered would not have survived in today's model railroad market.  I do think TYCO contributed to the good of the hobby for a while, but they failed to keep pace and fell by the wayside.  It's the way that business mirrors nature - the creatures/businesses who can't adapt go extinct.

-Phil

 

 

Phil,
I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.

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Posted by CAZEPHYR on Thursday, January 10, 2008 10:58 AM

 

Hate?   That's a strong word.     Lets just call it a lack of Love for the Product. 

 To sum it up, the brass track that came with the sets sealed the deal. 

 

 

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Posted by loathar on Thursday, January 10, 2008 10:48 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't most brands of trains run like crap in the 60's-70's?? Even brass?? Unless you spent hours tuning them to run right?

I know as a kid I didn't even know the difference in brand quality. I just bought the stuff that looked cool. I could have cared less if they were prototypical or not.


Gotta LUV that detail!Tongue [:P]They actually had pretty crisp paint jobs on them.

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Posted by vsmith on Thursday, January 10, 2008 10:00 AM
TYCO was definetly a mixed bag. Their starter train sets were pure crap, I had that POS GP-20 set, it ran for about a week then died, never to run again, but I later had an F7 than ran well, and later a Tyco labeled Mantua 10 wheeler and a Plymouth that ran like a champ.

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:58 AM

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:42 AM

I have fond memories of my first 4x8 layout, running a Tyco 10 wheeler and a Tyco prairie with brass Atlas track and Atlas buidlings. It was a lot of fun.  I was hooked on the hobby.  I added some MDC cars, built a LaBelle flatcar, and built a Bowser K4.   And so it goes.

Enjoy

Paul 

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by jecorbett on Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:40 AM
TYCO may have been a quality name at one time, but when I first got into the hobby as an adult back in the late 1970s, it was bottom of the barrel junk. It looked awful and ran awful. At the time, not having developed a critical eye for quality and not knowing any better, I bought a lot of it. Within I couple years, as I began accumulating good stuff, I began to realize just how poor TYCO equipment was. I wouldn't even put it on the layout and gave most of it away.
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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:34 AM

It's not still in business...Model Power bought the parent Mantua line a few years ago (around 2000 IIRC) and now make some RTR "Mantua Classic" engines and cars.

One thing about Tyco in the seventies is it was available in many places. Department stores and such that wouldn't carry upper end train stuff would carry Tyco so it was sometimes just more accessible to people - especially if they weren't regular hobby shop customers.

 

 

Stix
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Posted by shayfan84325 on Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:21 AM

mobilman,

I agree with you completely.  I have a sentimental fondness for my 1963 F7, but it operates far from realistically.  It has a very high starting speed (wheelies may be possible) and it only picks up power from 4 of the 8 wheels.  The paint is so-so.  I can't even say it got me started in the hobby.

I remember in the '70s that TYCO was hardly ever mentioned in articles; you see it in ads, but they were the "economy" hobby dealers' ads.  I dismissed it as toylike and my F7 resided in a storage box for 30 years.  I got it out when my wife asked about setting up a train to run around the Christmas tree.  I was happy to have a toy train to accommodate her (she thought it was sweet that it was the same engine and cars that I got for Christmas as a child.  It spends most of its time in a box, making an appearance at Christmas.

Is the company still in business?

-Phil

Phil,
I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.

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Posted by RR Redneck on Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:20 AM
TYCO trains are so out of date it aint even funny. They were awesome in the 70s becuase that was the standard. Now Athearn, Atlas and the newest generation of models and manufacturers are the industry standard.

Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.

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Posted by cwclark on Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:17 AM
  Tyco was built as a toy train and their quality was very low. Their locomotives were engineered to only run for 72 hours. They built them that way to keep the costs down and once the locomotive motor failed, a parent wasn't likely to take the train set back to the department store after it ran that long. I don't hate Tyco, but i don't try and use to many of them. I do have some tyco rolling stock on the layout, but they are totally re-vamped with metal grab irons, metal foot sturrups, metal wheel sets, and Kadee couplers. I wouldn't dare use Tyco wheel sets on the layout. They are so light and cheaply made that they usually pop off the track when going thru a turnout....chuck

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Posted by chatanuga on Thursday, January 10, 2008 9:12 AM

For me, I don't hate Tyco.  I think it's just that I've outgrown it.  Looking back at the Tyco stuff I used to have, it was basically toy trains, which I've outgrown.  As I've gotten older, I wanted more realism in my trains, not something that speeds around a circle or figure 8 at the speed of sound.  Granted, Tyco, for me, brings back good memories of my childhood when I was getting into trains.  Before Tyco, I had (and still have), my Lionel.  It was Tyco that got me started in HO scale.

Kevin

http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html

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Posted by Autobus Prime on Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:57 AM
 Mr. SP wrote:

Tyco did have the GP20 a mostly correct model and the Plymouth switcher. I have a Plymouth switcher and with the addition of a paint job, handrails and some detail parts is dosen't look half bad. It is a Tyco and has just two speeds Dead Stop and Race.

Mr. SP:

That's weird - I have two Tyco Plymouths and they can both run slowly if you don't advance th throttle to warp speed.  You have to keep the wheels clean, and it helps to run them in for a while. They have the usual MU-2 droning sound.

Running in can do a lot for any old loco.  I have a Life-like sidewinder F that cost me virtually nothing.  It was a little cranky when I acquired it, and I'm not a huge diseasel fan, but it ran fine at top speed, so I cleaned the brass wheels and used it to pull the track cleaning car. This involves continuous running at almost full speed for an hour or so.  After a lot of that, the thing will now run along steadily throttled down to 10-30 smph (and probably slower than that; I haven't really checked). It doesn't exactly creep, and it does make gear noise, but for what it is...not bad. 

 Currently president of: a slowly upgrading trainset fleet o'doom.
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Posted by mobilman44 on Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:54 AM

Hi,

 I certainly don't "hate" Tyco or any other MR company, but can say that Tyco represents the "toy" image of model railroading that most of us sophisticated modelers abhore.  We want our hobby and us to be taken seriously, and the Tyco image doesn't promote that.  In contrast, Athearn - the Athearn of the 60s and 70s - promoted "realism" and quality performance in a low priced format.  Hence, they became a major force in the industry.

Mobilman44

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by Railphotog on Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:50 AM
[quote user="C&O Fan"]

I'd be willing to bet your 56 Chevy is worth more than double your Dodge Today

Could be, but you couldn't GIVE me one in place of a newer car!

Tycos were TOYS, not model trains.

 

 

Bob Boudreau

CANADA

Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/

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Posted by Autobus Prime on Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:30 AM
 Virginian wrote:

And please spare me the nostalgic retorts.  We put a man on the moon in the '60s.  THE '60s !  So don't tell me they didn't know any better.  I remember seeing something European, I don't remember whether it was Marklin or Roco or what, but as soon as I saw that, I was bitter.  Lionel wasn't into scale or detail, but by God their stuff didn't die in 2 weeks.

V:

Marklin was just a leetle more expensive than TYCO was. Don't you think that might have been part of it?  If you want a comparison, try the Lima locos with the pancake motors.

Before CF, Mantua-Tyco wasn't just adequate stuff, it was very good.  Mantua was a huge innovator in the 1950s and 1960s.  Did you know that the early Booster had a plastic frame?  It didn't stick around, but it does show how Mantua was always ready to try something new. 

Even under CF, Tyco had some good points.  The PT truck wasn't good, no.  The rolling stock wasn't bad.  Some cars actually looked nice, like the flatcar.  The 40' box and 40' tank were in some ways superior to their Athearn counterparts, especially the tank car.  The Tyco snap-in trucks with metal axles roll better than most trainset trucks, too, and even the one-piece couplers seem more reliable than some (which isn't saying a whole lot, I know.)

As some on the Tyco forum have pointed out, Tyco knew how to build a set, adding accessories and little extras to make it more fun.  They also had "themed" sets, where other manufacturers still tend to just throw together some cars and assign a random name like "Golden Rails".  Very few manufacturers in HO offered so many operating accessories.

I do think some people were turned off by the running quality, but at the same time I have to wonder if these people would ever have Experienced Trains at all if there wasn't inexpensive stuff like Tyco around.  I doubt I'd ever have had my first set if everything available had the quality and corresponding price of Marklin.  My set was, in fact, a Tyco Golden Eagle, and no, it didn't run extremely well, but I'm still here, right?

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Posted by Mr. SP on Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:12 AM

Toyco is what we called it. Tyco was more toy than model. Athearn and Roundhouse were the top of the line back then. Remember Revell? They had some model trains as well as the plastic models.

AHM was a sensation when the SP Cab Forward could be had for $25. Athearn had the HI-F drive with the rubberbands that either broke or slipped and stops were an interesting sight.

Most of the motors were a three pole truck mounted thing that would barely pull the locomotive much less a train of any length.

Tyco did have the GP20 a mostly correct model and the Plymouth switcher. I have a Plymouth switcher and with the addition of a paint job, handrails and some detail parts is dosen't look half bad. It is a Tyco and has just two speeds Dead Stop and Race.

Just a couple of memories of the "Good Ol' Days"

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Posted by dknelson on Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:06 AM

There really are three (or more) Tycos, and it is unfortunate that the "hate" for the worst Tyco gets carried over to the better Tyco. 

Initially, Tyco meant nothing more than ready to run versions of Mantua steam engines and cars.  They were high-end train set quality, durable and worth the money, and modelers who progressed from train sets to real scale model railroading could still run the Tyco stuff without shame.  One problem for the scale modeler was that Mantua/Tyco used an entirely proprietary type of freight car truck mounting.

Then came a line of Tyco that was not taken from Mantua.  There was some OK stuff in that line.  They had a nice 50' flat car with a separate deck that looked like wood that in many respects was one of the better plastic flatcars available for many years.  The Tyco gondola, which was not the same as the Mantua gondola, has been the subject of advanced kitbashing articles.   

They gradually cheapened the line more and more with chrome plated engines, etc.  It was meant to be (and priced to be) played with and thrown away.  

A Tyco F7 from the early 1960s, or a Tyco metal Pacific or Mikado or 0-6-0 would be a decent piece of equipment.  Their phony GG-1?  Lowest end train set.

Dave Nelson

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