As a kid, I had TYCO trains, along with AHM, Bachman, Rivarossi, and a bunch of others...
As an adult with 15 or more years away from the hobby and coming back now it seems that most everyone has a morbid dislike of TYCO...
Perhaps I'm the exception that proves the rule, but I don't remember having a lot of trouble out of any of their stuff, or atleast no more than anything by any of the other makers...
I am not trying to stir up argument or insults just trying to understand. I was a kid, so maybe I missed something.
I think the earlier Tyco was fine for what it was, particularly the Mantua-built steamers, but Tyco really gave themselves a black eye with the "Powertorque" pancake motor trucks in the mid 70's, which were irredeemable garbage. The motor bearings didn't hold enough oil, yet there was no way to keep oil off of the brushes and commutator. The gearing was so flimsy that it usually stripped, assuming the armature didn't smoke first. They stand as a monument to cheap 70's design.
I think many model railroaders still have flashbacks of pulling their hair out over those locos (I know I do), as opposed to the fonder memories of toy trains like Lionel and AF. Once I discovered Athearn, I didn't look back.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
Actually there are some that collect and use the older Tyco and AHM stuff.
You may enjoy this site.
http://tycotrain.tripod.com/tycotrains/
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
ill wager a lot of the hate stems from the fact a lot of their later offering were pure junk , while that in itself is not so much a sin, i think the fact they were sold to so many people in cheap train set means a lot of people got exposed to a lot of junk and as such were turned off by the hobby. Like you i cant say i had tremendously bad experience with Tyco stuff but compared to similar product at the time or even today, they were always bottom of the barrel quality wise.
i guess another part of the hate stems from the fact a lot of people try to hawk them on ebay or train show and hike up the price because its "antique" or "vintage". to some poor unsuspecting newbie, that might be a indication of worth ( i.e: "wow that engine must be good , that seller wants 50$ for it" )
just my 2 cents
I don't think people hate Tyco (or Life Like or Bachmann, or whatever), but they just dislike it from a quality perspective. It is fine for what it is - entry-level inexpensive equipment that gets people engaged in the hobby. These people otherwise would probably not ever get started in model railroading. However, once someone gets "into" the hobby a bit, and starts to learn more about the better quality (i.e. better motors, higher detail, etc) stuff out there, they realize their old Tyco stuff no longer cuts the mustard.
I have moved beyond the train set stage and am working on my first semi-permanent serious attempt at a layout. I've bought P2K locos and have built Accurail and now Branchline kits, and will never go back. I'll never get another Tyco or cheap Bachmann or LL item, because I have graduated from that phase of my modeling.
But it puts a smile on my face when I see those inexpensive train sets in the store because I know that that's how I got my start, and somewhere out there, the next great model railroader is going to get his/her start by buying that Tyco train set.
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor
"Hate" is a strong word. I don't hate Tyco or their products. But I do dislike them. I know they have driven people from the hobby due to their cruddy performance.
The only thing good about them was their price. Everything else was junky. 4-wheel pick up, plastic wheels, rubber tires, brass wheels, large flanges, 3-pole pancake motors, no flywheels, truck mounted couplers, cookout in the cab lighting, lightning fast starts, poor low speed performance, inaccurate body dimensions, "sewer pipe" handrails, bogus paint schemes, etc. If you made a list of everything that's desirable in an HO locomotive, a Tyco is just about the opposite of all of them (except price).
The others you mention were/are in the same boat. AHM is gone, but they were, in many cases, worse than Tyco. Bachmann at least now has a couple of quality lines that are lighyears ahead of the 1980's junk they still sell. Rivarossi has "seen the light" and over the last 10 years or so retooled their line of steamers with RP25 wheels, can motors, etc. Life-Like (ther other major junk brand) is now owned by Walthers, and makes several lines of quality products (some of which are very high quality). LL still makes their 1980's stuff, too.
Look, I had Tyco/Bachmann/Lilfe-Like/AHM models as a kid. I grew up with them as my father has been a model railroader since Truman was President. I have no positive feelings toward any of that junk that I used to play with. I like my dad's old Lionel collection, I like my mom's Marx trains (yes, she had model trains as a kid, too). But that "Silver Streak" Century I used to own? That Chattanooga steam engine with the smoke unit and tender drive? That AHM RS-2 that literally dropped drive parts as it went down the tracks? I don't miss them at all. All I remember is how often they didn't work & how often they derailed. Not good memories...
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
On Christmas I was running trains with my nephew (there's something special about running trains with a kid). Just for fun, I pulled out the TYCO Santa Fe F unit that my folks gave me for Christmas 1963. After 44 years that old girl ran like a champ and brought a smile to both of our faces.
Here's to keeping your very first model locomotive!
-Phil
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
I guess I'm one of the weird ones.
I actually like Tyco,and all the others mentioned.
Carl T.
shayfan84325 wrote:On Christmas I was running trains with my nephew (there's something special about running trains with a kid). Just for fun, I pulled out the TYCO Santa Fe F unit that my folks gave me for Christmas 1963. After 44 years that old girl ran like a champ and brought a smile to both of our faces.Here's to keeping your very first model locomotive!-Phil
That 1963 F-7 had the 5 pole power truck, which will last forever. Unfortunately, the mid-70's design probably drove more kids from the hobby than not.
I had an AHM RS-2 that cooked its armature after about a week. I had a lot of fun with the C-Liners, though. I still remember how they roared and shook the benchwork because of that huge lead weight over the power truck.
In a way I owe a debt to all of that cheap stuff, because that's how I became so good at fixing things.
I remember Christmas of 1975 when one of my gifts was an HO Tyco set. It was a Santa Fe yard switcher and several cars. I think it lasted all of two months before it died on me, but then I ran the "you know what" out of it too...
Tracklayer
shayfan84325 wrote: Here's to keeping your very first model locomotive!
I wish I had! It may very well have been the Tyco diesel switcher, or one of its ancestors. All I remember now is that it was a four-wheel industrial switcher--lettered ATSF, I believe. This would have been in the late 1960s, and I don't recall it as a particularly bad runner. To my childish eyes, it was the height of prototypical realism.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
TYCO - Trains You Cant Operate
All kidding aside, Tyco's original products carried over from the Mantua days were functional and for the most part, ran OK with routine maintenance. I had a Mantua/TYCO GP-20 in the early 1970's and it was such a unit. But later diesel offerings, circa 1975 had the same motor they used in their slot cars mounted upright in the front truck. The truck had rubber tires on one side of each powered axle. The locomotives were light, traction was poor, motors were noisy and the lamp they used drew LOTS of current and were hot.
My brother and I received the 1776 Bicentennial train set with the Century 420 ALCO unit (which was supposed to mimic the SCL U36B) for Christmas and on my brother's unit the lamp ultimately melted the cab roof from the heat. The units had motor problems due to the poor design; and would require constant work to sustain operation.
Similiar things can be said for Life Like locos during that time frame. My first HO scale locomotive was a LL RS11 in D&H colors (1972). It was built in Yugoslavia and had a single powered truck with a vertical open frame motor. On day one it ran forward and backward with no issues, on day two I could run it backward but not forward, day three it died. After several attempts to revive it (I was a kid, and neither my family or friends were technically inclined) I sought advise from a local hobby shop. I was told to forget it and buy an Athearn locomotive. I bought an ALCO PA1 and it ran great! It saved my interest in the hobby.
Two years later I tried Life Like again - this time I bought the ALCO Century 415 locomotive. As with the RS11 due to the same construction, I ran poorly then quit.
I know now why I had trouble with them. They lubricated the motors with graphite! The graphite from the upper motor bearing would leak down onto the commutator and short the motor! Also the brush arms did not make good contact and caused poor operation.
Those of us with these experiences do not miss those products. I was away from the hobby during the 80's and 90's and when I restarted found Life Like turned things around with the Proto 2000 line of locomotives. Mantua eventually separated from TYCO and produced operational steam locomotives for a period.
Ebay has created a collectible market for old TYCO, LL, Bachmann, Varney, etc. Buy them to collect for sentimental reasons if you choose, but don't expect modern loco performance.
Carl in Florida - - - - - - - - - - We need an HO Amtrak SDP40F and GE U36B oh wait- We GOT THEM!
I got started in Model Railroading back in the '60's and Tyco quickly became my favorite. At that time, the diesel locomotives were gear driven, had good pulling power, ran reliably. In comparison at that time, Athearn was rubber band drive and seemed to run at speeds not compatable with train set 18 inch radius curves. AHM/Rivarossi was well detailed, but had the deep flanges and were so light they only pulled a few cars. Tyco cars were made with a die cast metal underframe that gave them weight and kept it low for good tracking. I still have quite a few of these on my layout, have modified the locomotives (cosmetically) but they still use the original power truck that Tyco called the MU-2. They were good technology for the time and reasonably priced. With periodic cleaning and VERY light lubrication, these things seem to run forever.
In the '70's, when Tyco was bought out by Consolidated Foods, they moved production from Woodbur Heights, NJ to overseas and the design and quality went downhill fast. Unfortunately, this is the Tyco that most people remember.
It's like anything from the past - my first car was a used 1956 Chev, with manual steering, brakes, 2 speed automatic transmission, AM radio, no air, nothing much else. At the time in my late teens it was great, I could get around on my own, do what I wanted. That doesn't mean I'd want one today as it cannot compare in any way to my late model car (Dodge Magnum) with power steering, brakes, windows, doors, air, seat, CD player, sunroof, 4 speed auto, tilt & telescoping steering wheel, better handling and ride, etc.
The '56 was nice THEN, the newer one NOW.
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
The Tycos I remember didnt stay on track more than three loops.
One in particular got tossed into the trashcan after derailing while coupled to any kind of train.
The behavior exhibited by these units were not acceptable to one who was in a world where Brass, can motors, creeping operation etc were king.
Tyco make me quit hobby, Athearn's Blue Boxes saved it for me.
That was long ago and a different life. And a wasted one at that.
I suppose there is a little bit of thought to the Tyco once in a while wondering if they would have done much better with the trackwork I can put down now Im not even going to venture there and follow up on that path.
I had a lifelike trainset with the open frame single truck motor that racked up 20 years of service and then some. Compared to Tyco, Lifelike was a superior product.
Well, I cannot speak for anyone else, but I hate Tyco, and all the old Life-Like and B-mann junk. And that is what it was - junk. They knew how to build better, but they didn't want to bother. It was 99% inaccurate and poorly designed. Screw the kids or whoever else bought them after they got their money.
And please spare me the nostalgic retorts. We put a man on the moon in the '60s. THE '60s ! So don't tell me they didn't know any better. I remember seeing something European, I don't remember whether it was Marklin or Roco or what, but as soon as I saw that, I was bitter. Lionel wasn't into scale or detail, but by God their stuff didn't die in 2 weeks.
And, I am not the least bit ashamed I hate them. I am proud I am smart enough to hate them, because they deserved it.
Railphotog wrote: It's like anything from the past - my first car was a used 1956 Chev, with manual steering, brakes, 2 speed automatic transmission, AM radio, no air, nothing much else. At the time in my late teens it was great, I could get around on my own, do what I wanted. That doesn't mean I'd want one today as it cannot compare in any way to my late model car (Dodge Magnum) with power steering, brakes, windows, doors, air, seat, CD player, sunroof, 4 speed auto, tilt & telescoping steering wheel, better handling and ride, etc.The '56 was nice THEN, the newer one NOW.
I'd be willing to bet your 56 Chevy is worth more than double your Dodge Today
TerryinTexas
See my Web Site Here
http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/
I have some fond memories of my 1971 Tyco set. As I recall the U.P. 4-6-2 ran pretty well, a friend of mine had a 2-8-2 and a couple of other engines and we used to run trains together. Tyco originally was just meant to be RTR Mantua (originally all Mantua engines were kits). Mantua for years was one of the better HO train manufacturers.
The big failing of those train sets was the brass rail track, if they had nickel silver it would have a big difference for me; after a couple of years of trying to keep track clean I gave up and switched to Lionel O for 15 years, eventually coming back to HO c.1988.
"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley
I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious. -Stephen Wright
There really are three (or more) Tycos, and it is unfortunate that the "hate" for the worst Tyco gets carried over to the better Tyco.
Initially, Tyco meant nothing more than ready to run versions of Mantua steam engines and cars. They were high-end train set quality, durable and worth the money, and modelers who progressed from train sets to real scale model railroading could still run the Tyco stuff without shame. One problem for the scale modeler was that Mantua/Tyco used an entirely proprietary type of freight car truck mounting.
Then came a line of Tyco that was not taken from Mantua. There was some OK stuff in that line. They had a nice 50' flat car with a separate deck that looked like wood that in many respects was one of the better plastic flatcars available for many years. The Tyco gondola, which was not the same as the Mantua gondola, has been the subject of advanced kitbashing articles.
They gradually cheapened the line more and more with chrome plated engines, etc. It was meant to be (and priced to be) played with and thrown away.
A Tyco F7 from the early 1960s, or a Tyco metal Pacific or Mikado or 0-6-0 would be a decent piece of equipment. Their phony GG-1? Lowest end train set.
Dave Nelson
Toyco is what we called it. Tyco was more toy than model. Athearn and Roundhouse were the top of the line back then. Remember Revell? They had some model trains as well as the plastic models.
AHM was a sensation when the SP Cab Forward could be had for $25. Athearn had the HI-F drive with the rubberbands that either broke or slipped and stops were an interesting sight.
Most of the motors were a three pole truck mounted thing that would barely pull the locomotive much less a train of any length.
Tyco did have the GP20 a mostly correct model and the Plymouth switcher. I have a Plymouth switcher and with the addition of a paint job, handrails and some detail parts is dosen't look half bad. It is a Tyco and has just two speeds Dead Stop and Race.
Just a couple of memories of the "Good Ol' Days"
Virginian wrote: And please spare me the nostalgic retorts. We put a man on the moon in the '60s. THE '60s ! So don't tell me they didn't know any better. I remember seeing something European, I don't remember whether it was Marklin or Roco or what, but as soon as I saw that, I was bitter. Lionel wasn't into scale or detail, but by God their stuff didn't die in 2 weeks.
V:
Marklin was just a leetle more expensive than TYCO was. Don't you think that might have been part of it? If you want a comparison, try the Lima locos with the pancake motors.
Before CF, Mantua-Tyco wasn't just adequate stuff, it was very good. Mantua was a huge innovator in the 1950s and 1960s. Did you know that the early Booster had a plastic frame? It didn't stick around, but it does show how Mantua was always ready to try something new.
Even under CF, Tyco had some good points. The PT truck wasn't good, no. The rolling stock wasn't bad. Some cars actually looked nice, like the flatcar. The 40' box and 40' tank were in some ways superior to their Athearn counterparts, especially the tank car. The Tyco snap-in trucks with metal axles roll better than most trainset trucks, too, and even the one-piece couplers seem more reliable than some (which isn't saying a whole lot, I know.)
As some on the Tyco forum have pointed out, Tyco knew how to build a set, adding accessories and little extras to make it more fun. They also had "themed" sets, where other manufacturers still tend to just throw together some cars and assign a random name like "Golden Rails". Very few manufacturers in HO offered so many operating accessories.
I do think some people were turned off by the running quality, but at the same time I have to wonder if these people would ever have Experienced Trains at all if there wasn't inexpensive stuff like Tyco around. I doubt I'd ever have had my first set if everything available had the quality and corresponding price of Marklin. My set was, in fact, a Tyco Golden Eagle, and no, it didn't run extremely well, but I'm still here, right?
Could be, but you couldn't GIVE me one in place of a newer car!
Tycos were TOYS, not model trains.
Hi,
I certainly don't "hate" Tyco or any other MR company, but can say that Tyco represents the "toy" image of model railroading that most of us sophisticated modelers abhore. We want our hobby and us to be taken seriously, and the Tyco image doesn't promote that. In contrast, Athearn - the Athearn of the 60s and 70s - promoted "realism" and quality performance in a low priced format. Hence, they became a major force in the industry.
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Mr. SP wrote: Tyco did have the GP20 a mostly correct model and the Plymouth switcher. I have a Plymouth switcher and with the addition of a paint job, handrails and some detail parts is dosen't look half bad. It is a Tyco and has just two speeds Dead Stop and Race.
Mr. SP:
That's weird - I have two Tyco Plymouths and they can both run slowly if you don't advance th throttle to warp speed. You have to keep the wheels clean, and it helps to run them in for a while. They have the usual MU-2 droning sound.
Running in can do a lot for any old loco. I have a Life-like sidewinder F that cost me virtually nothing. It was a little cranky when I acquired it, and I'm not a huge diseasel fan, but it ran fine at top speed, so I cleaned the brass wheels and used it to pull the track cleaning car. This involves continuous running at almost full speed for an hour or so. After a lot of that, the thing will now run along steadily throttled down to 10-30 smph (and probably slower than that; I haven't really checked). It doesn't exactly creep, and it does make gear noise, but for what it is...not bad.
For me, I don't hate Tyco. I think it's just that I've outgrown it. Looking back at the Tyco stuff I used to have, it was basically toy trains, which I've outgrown. As I've gotten older, I wanted more realism in my trains, not something that speeds around a circle or figure 8 at the speed of sound. Granted, Tyco, for me, brings back good memories of my childhood when I was getting into trains. Before Tyco, I had (and still have), my Lionel. It was Tyco that got me started in HO scale.
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.