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Why does everyone hate TYCO so much?

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Posted by mononguy63 on Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:05 AM
The old Tyco junk of the '70's was a sign of the times in American history. We had bad hair, very bad fashion, bad industry, bad cars. We had Watergate, the Iran hostage crisis, double-digit inflation, and the energy crisis (with the death of every house being lit up at Christmas). There was an overall malaise that led directly to the advent of Disco music. Basically, nothing made in America was worth the trouble of throwing it away. Across the board, what had previously been good quality was cheapened and over-economized (can anyone forget that 1975 Ford Mustang?) Tyco was simply following suit.

"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley

I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious.  -Stephen Wright

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:58 AM

I have some fond memories of my 1971 Tyco set. As I recall the U.P. 4-6-2 ran pretty well, a friend of mine had a 2-8-2 and a couple of other engines and we used to run trains together. Tyco originally was just meant to be RTR Mantua (originally all Mantua engines were kits). Mantua for years was one of the better HO train manufacturers.

The big failing of those train sets was the brass rail track, if they had nickel silver it would have a big difference for me; after a couple of years of trying to keep track clean I gave up and switched to Lionel O for 15 years, eventually coming back to HO c.1988.

Stix
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Posted by C&O Fan on Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:48 AM
 Railphotog wrote:

It's like anything from the past - my first car was a used 1956 Chev, with manual steering, brakes, 2 speed automatic transmission, AM radio, no air, nothing much else.  At the time in my late teens it was great, I could get around on my own, do what I wanted.  That doesn't mean I'd want one today as it cannot compare in any way to my late model car (Dodge Magnum) with power steering, brakes, windows, doors, air, seat, CD player, sunroof, 4 speed auto, tilt & telescoping steering wheel, better handling and ride, etc.

The '56 was nice THEN, the newer one NOW.

 

I'd be willing to bet your 56 Chevy is worth more than double your Dodge Today

TerryinTexas

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http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

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Posted by Virginian on Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:53 AM

Well, I cannot speak for anyone else, but I hate Tyco, and all the old Life-Like and B-mann junk.  And that is what it was - junk.  They knew how to build better, but they didn't want to bother.  It was 99% inaccurate and poorly designed.  Screw the kids or whoever else bought them after they got their money.

And please spare me the nostalgic retorts.  We put a man on the moon in the '60s.  THE '60s !  So don't tell me they didn't know any better.  I remember seeing something European, I don't remember whether it was Marklin or Roco or what, but as soon as I saw that, I was bitter.  Lionel wasn't into scale or detail, but by God their stuff didn't die in 2 weeks.

And, I am not the least bit ashamed I hate them.  I am proud I am smart enough to hate them, because they deserved it.

What could have happened.... did.
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:52 AM

The Tycos I remember didnt stay on track more than three loops.

One in particular got tossed into the trashcan after derailing while coupled to any kind of train.

The behavior exhibited by these units were not acceptable to one who was in a world where Brass, can motors, creeping operation etc were king.

Tyco make me quit hobby, Athearn's Blue Boxes saved it for me.

That was long ago and a different life. And a wasted one at that.

I suppose there is a little bit of thought to the Tyco once in a while wondering if they would have done much better with the trackwork I can put down now Im not even going to venture there and follow up on that path.

I had a lifelike trainset with the open frame single truck motor that racked up 20 years of service and then some. Compared to Tyco, Lifelike was a superior product.

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Posted by Railphotog on Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:20 AM

It's like anything from the past - my first car was a used 1956 Chev, with manual steering, brakes, 2 speed automatic transmission, AM radio, no air, nothing much else.  At the time in my late teens it was great, I could get around on my own, do what I wanted.  That doesn't mean I'd want one today as it cannot compare in any way to my late model car (Dodge Magnum) with power steering, brakes, windows, doors, air, seat, CD player, sunroof, 4 speed auto, tilt & telescoping steering wheel, better handling and ride, etc.

The '56 was nice THEN, the newer one NOW.

 

Bob Boudreau

CANADA

Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/

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Posted by TomDiehl on Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:16 AM

I got started in Model Railroading back in the '60's and Tyco quickly became my favorite. At that time, the diesel locomotives were gear driven, had good pulling power, ran reliably. In comparison at that time, Athearn was rubber band drive and seemed to run at speeds not compatable with train set 18 inch radius curves. AHM/Rivarossi was well detailed, but had the deep flanges and were so light they only pulled a few cars. Tyco cars were made with a die cast metal underframe that gave them weight and kept it low for good tracking. I still have quite a few of these on my layout, have modified the locomotives (cosmetically) but they still use the original power truck that Tyco called the MU-2. They were good technology for the time and reasonably priced. With periodic cleaning and VERY light lubrication, these things seem to run forever.

In the '70's, when Tyco was bought out by Consolidated Foods, they moved production from Woodbur Heights, NJ to overseas and the design and quality went downhill fast. Unfortunately, this is the Tyco that most people remember.

Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown
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Posted by cmarchan on Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:52 AM

TYCO - Trains You Cant Operate Wink [;)]

All kidding aside, Tyco's original products carried over from the Mantua days were functional and for the most part, ran OK with routine maintenance. I had a Mantua/TYCO GP-20 in the early 1970's and it was such a unit. But later diesel offerings, circa 1975 had the same motor they used in their slot cars mounted upright in the front truck. The truck had rubber tires on one side of each powered axle. The locomotives were light, traction was poor, motors were noisy and the lamp they used drew LOTS of current and were hot.

My brother and I received the 1776 Bicentennial train set with the Century 420 ALCO unit (which was supposed to mimic the SCL U36B) for Christmas and on my brother's unit the lamp ultimately melted the cab roof from the heat. The units had motor problems due to the poor design; and would require constant work to sustain operation.

Similiar things can be said for Life Like locos during that time frame. My first HO scale locomotive was a LL RS11 in D&H colors (1972). It was built in Yugoslavia and had a single powered truck with a vertical open frame motor. On day one it ran forward and backward with no issues, on day two I could run it backward but not forward, day three it died. After several attempts to revive it (I was a kid, and neither my family or friends were technically inclined) I sought advise from a local hobby shop. I was told to forget it and buy an Athearn locomotive. I bought an ALCO PA1 and it ran great! It saved my interest in the hobby.

Two years later I tried Life Like again - this time I bought the ALCO Century 415 locomotive. As with the RS11 due to the same construction, I ran poorly then quit.

I know now why I had trouble with them. They lubricated the motors with graphite! The graphite from the upper motor bearing would leak down onto the commutator and short the motor! Also the brush arms did not make good contact and caused poor operation.

Those of us with these experiences do not miss those products. I was away from the hobby during the 80's and 90's and when I restarted found Life Like turned things around with the Proto 2000 line of locomotives. Mantua eventually separated from TYCO and produced operational steam locomotives for a period.

Ebay has created a collectible market for old TYCO, LL, Bachmann, Varney, etc. Buy them to collect for sentimental reasons if you choose, but don't expect modern loco performance.

Carl in Florida - - - - - - - - - - We need an HO Amtrak SDP40F and GE U36B oh wait- We GOT THEM!

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Posted by R. T. POTEET on Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:56 AM

In all of my years in HO Scale I never owned a TYCO locomotive but we had a member of our club in Germany in the early '70s who had a substantial fleet of TYCO locomotives - mostly diesel - and I remember they all ran flawlessly. I remember at Christmas he would go into the toy department at the exchange and buy a TYCO train set or two because it was a very cheap way of getting locomotives and rolling stock as well as additional track - which was brass, by the way!

From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet

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Posted by Dayliner on Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:10 AM

 shayfan84325 wrote:
Here's to keeping your very first model locomotive!

I wish I had!  It may very well have been the Tyco diesel switcher, or one of its ancestors.  All I remember now is that it was a four-wheel industrial switcher--lettered ATSF, I believe.  This would have been in the late 1960s, and I don't recall it as a particularly bad runner.  To my childish eyes, it was the height of prototypical realism.

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Posted by Tracklayer on Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:02 AM

I remember Christmas of 1975 when one of my gifts was an HO Tyco set. It was a Santa Fe yard switcher and several cars. I think it lasted all of two months before it died on me, but then I ran the "you know what" out of it too...

Tracklayer 

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Posted by SteamFreak on Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:01 AM
 shayfan84325 wrote:

On Christmas I was running trains with my nephew (there's something special about running trains with a kid).  Just for fun, I pulled out the TYCO Santa Fe F unit that my folks gave me for Christmas 1963.  After 44 years that old girl ran like a champ and brought a smile to both of our faces.

Here's to keeping your very first model locomotive!

-Phil

That 1963 F-7 had the 5 pole power truck, which will last forever. Unfortunately, the mid-70's design probably drove more kids from the hobby than not.

I had an AHM RS-2 that cooked its armature after about a week. I had a lot of fun with the C-Liners, though. I still remember how they roared and shook the benchwork because of that huge lead weight over the power truck. Smile [:)]

In a way I owe a debt to all of that cheap stuff, because that's how I became so good at fixing things.

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Posted by choochin3 on Wednesday, January 9, 2008 11:55 PM

I guess I'm one of the weird ones.

I actually like Tyco,and all the others mentioned.Approve [^]

 

Carl T.

I'm out Choochin!
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Posted by shayfan84325 on Wednesday, January 9, 2008 11:39 PM

On Christmas I was running trains with my nephew (there's something special about running trains with a kid).  Just for fun, I pulled out the TYCO Santa Fe F unit that my folks gave me for Christmas 1963.  After 44 years that old girl ran like a champ and brought a smile to both of our faces.

Here's to keeping your very first model locomotive!

-Phil

Phil,
I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.

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Posted by Paul3 on Wednesday, January 9, 2008 11:16 PM

"Hate" is a strong word.  I don't hate Tyco or their products.  But I do dislike them.  I know they have driven people from the hobby due to their cruddy performance.

The only thing good about them was their price.  Everything else was junky.  4-wheel pick up, plastic wheels, rubber tires, brass wheels, large flanges, 3-pole pancake motors, no flywheels, truck mounted couplers, cookout in the cab lighting, lightning fast starts, poor low speed performance, inaccurate body dimensions, "sewer pipe" handrails, bogus paint schemes, etc.  If you made a list of everything that's desirable in an HO locomotive, a Tyco is just about the opposite of all of them (except price).

The others you mention were/are in the same boat.  AHM is gone, but they were, in many cases, worse than Tyco.  Bachmann at least now has a couple of quality lines that are lighyears ahead of the 1980's junk they still sell.  Rivarossi has "seen the light" and over the last 10 years or so retooled their line of steamers with RP25 wheels, can motors, etc.  Life-Like (ther other major junk brand) is now owned by Walthers, and makes several lines of quality products (some of which are very high quality).  LL still makes their 1980's stuff, too.

Look, I had Tyco/Bachmann/Lilfe-Like/AHM models as a kid.  I grew up with them as my father has been a model railroader since Truman was President.  I have no positive feelings toward any of that junk that I used to play with.  I like my dad's old Lionel collection, I like my mom's Marx trains (yes, she had model trains as a kid, too).  But that "Silver Streak" Century I used to own?  That Chattanooga steam engine with the smoke unit and tender drive?  That AHM RS-2 that literally dropped drive parts as it went down the tracks?  I don't miss them at all.  All I remember is how often they didn't work & how often they derailed.  Not good memories...

Paul A. Cutler III
************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
************

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Posted by stokesda on Wednesday, January 9, 2008 10:56 PM

I don't think people hate Tyco (or Life Like or Bachmann, or whatever), but they just dislike it from a quality perspective. It is fine for what it is - entry-level inexpensive equipment that gets people engaged in the hobby. These people otherwise would probably not ever get started in model railroading. However, once someone gets "into" the hobby a bit, and starts to learn more about the better quality (i.e. better motors, higher detail, etc) stuff out there, they realize their old Tyco stuff no longer cuts the mustard.

I have moved beyond the train set stage and am working on my first semi-permanent serious attempt at a layout. I've bought P2K locos and have built Accurail and now Branchline kits, and will never go back. I'll never get another Tyco or cheap Bachmann or LL item, because I have graduated from that phase of my modeling.

But it puts a smile on my face when I see those inexpensive train sets in the store because I know that that's how I got my start, and somewhere out there, the next great model railroader is going to get his/her start by buying that Tyco train set.

Dan Stokes

My other car is a tunnel motor

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Posted by ranchero on Wednesday, January 9, 2008 10:19 PM

ill wager a lot of the hate stems from the fact a lot of their later offering were pure junk , while that in itself is not so much a sin, i think the fact they were sold to so many people in cheap train set means a lot of people got exposed to a lot of junk and as such were turned off by the hobby. Like you  i cant say  i had tremendously bad experience with Tyco stuff but compared to similar product at the time or even today, they were always bottom of the barrel quality wise.

 i guess another part of the hate stems from the fact a lot of people try to hawk them on ebay or train show and hike up the price  because its "antique" or "vintage". to some poor unsuspecting newbie, that might be a indication of worth ( i.e: "wow that engine must be good , that seller wants 50$ for it" )

 

just my 2 cents

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Posted by BRAKIE on Wednesday, January 9, 2008 10:18 PM

Actually there are some that collect and use the older Tyco and AHM stuff.

You may enjoy this site.

http://tycotrain.tripod.com/tycotrains/

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by SteamFreak on Wednesday, January 9, 2008 10:15 PM

I think the earlier Tyco was fine for what it was, particularly the Mantua-built steamers, but Tyco really gave themselves a black eye with the "Powertorque" pancake motor trucks in the mid 70's, which were irredeemable garbage. The motor bearings didn't hold enough oil, yet there was no way to keep oil off of the brushes and commutator. The gearing was so flimsy that it usually stripped, assuming the armature didn't smoke first. They stand as a monument to cheap 70's design.

I think many model railroaders still have flashbacks of pulling their hair out over those locos (I know I do), as opposed to the fonder memories of toy trains like Lionel and AF. Once I discovered Athearn, I didn't look back.

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Posted by Todd McWilliam on Wednesday, January 9, 2008 10:11 PM
I can remember when TYCO was the bomb in 1976, Athearn Blue Box was like Atlas Master series back then.  It is 2008 and the new models are light years ahead of TYCO was.
Chicago & North Western Railway/Iowa Northern
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Why does everyone hate TYCO so much?
Posted by PB&J RR on Wednesday, January 9, 2008 10:01 PM

As a kid, I had TYCO trains, along with AHM, Bachman, Rivarossi, and a bunch of others...

As an adult with 15 or more years away from the hobby and coming back now it seems that most everyone has a morbid dislike of TYCO...

Perhaps I'm the exception that proves the rule, but I don't remember having a lot of trouble out of any of their stuff, or atleast no more than anything by any of the other makers...

I am not trying to stir up argument or insults just trying to understand. I was a kid, so maybe I missed something.

J. Walt Layne President, CEO, and Chief Engineer Penneburgh, Briarwood & Jameson Railroad.

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