Wow! I thought I was the angry one posting in the first place.
People are jumping on folks for having a difference of opinions.
DCC is complicated, some manufacturers make it needlessly so. That helps no one in this hobby as in "its not a good thing".
I said this earlier, here is the reality, Bluerail will get itself a pretty good market presence quickly. Unbox train, build track, place locomotives on track, download and open app. and be ready to go in seconds after that. Only the hardcore will go for something more after this, especially as the price drops and more enter the market.
It won't make people throw away DCC, it might make some with small setups convert, especially among the younger crowd. Double bonus as it will be bluerail and dcc compatible.
Everything above is the truth, the guys here with kids from 2-14 know exactly what I am talking about and it will happen.
Arduino will come for it, apps for everything u can think of, you will have signals and everything else your heart desires.
I have DCC, I am learning DCC, I am fighting poor manuals for the DCC. 99% of the time that doesn't happen with toys/books/etc that need to have things downloaded. They work with minimal fuss(there are exceptions to every rule).
Maybe its a dream, maybe its not. It will bring in a new level of ease for outsiders to enter the realm and at the end of the day, I think we are past the want new blood stage, more like we need new blood period.
If Bachmann was smart they would have a set like this in every Toys R Us, hobby shop and train show from coast to coast. Make it easy to use(only assuming they have) and there you go.
JEREMY CENTANNIDCC is complicated
Depends. I opened my NCE gear originally, plugged it in, turned a knob, ran trains.
Some users make DCC much more complicated, that wasn't my preference.
At this point Bluerail has a long way to go to match DCC's capabilities for all but the simplest situations. Maybe they get there. But claiming that they will "destroy" DCC with the very modest subset of DCC's features (and bulky hardware) that Bluerail offers today is premature at best and pointless hyperbole at the worst.
I'll leave this thread now to the hypesters and the hopers.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Perhaps you should slow down and actually READ the manuakl, not skim, over what you think is the unimportant stuff. Not a criticism - most people do this unconciously. Ask a woman, they will say more guys that gals do this, but whatever, it IS true.
What is so complicated avout selecting and runnign a train? Complex button combinations? You pres Loco, key in the cab number of the loco (which is what you SHOUDL be using as an address - so nothing to remember, or write on cheat sheeats) and press the enter key. DONE. Now use the throttle and direction switch to run the train. EXACT same key sequence on EVERY DCC system (except Bachmann EZ Command and the pre-Prodigy MRC systems), even if they may call the button some variation of "select" or "loco".
You are also way over simplyfying Bluerail. You have to pair the receiver witht he controller SOMEHOW, this is part of the Bluetooth standard. They may put a fancy face on it, but it's a required step every time yiou use a new phone or have a new loco, and it's not 100% reliable either - have PLENTY of BT devices over the years with various smartphones and so forth. And you have to get power on the rails somewhere for the Bluerail receivers to work, so there's some sort of variation of the "turn on track power" step needed. All of the 'examples' of Bluerail thus far seem to visualize 1 loco with 1 smartphone. But I have dozens of locos on my layout. I use different ones, and different combinations of them, for different trains per prototypical practices. Not much is said about any sort of MU capability with Bluerail (at least Ring's RailPro thoroughly covers how they handle this). These sort of features are not "would be nice to have" things, they are requirements for anyone who engages this hobby at anything approaching a serious level.
As for "difference of opinion", you're the one who titled the thread with some extremist hyperbole. I think the vast majority of responses so far have provided factual information, not hype about a barely available new product. I'm sorry that you are having issues with Digitrax, but as a user for 14 years I've never had any problems figuring out how to accomplish anything I wanted to do, and my ex father in law, who barely remembers how to turn the computer on, was able to easily operate his locos with my Zephyr even when i wasn't around. He did stay away from the DT400 throttle I added though. He is a career railroader, not in some technical position, and doesn't have a college degree or any sort of technical training, not in mechanics, or electrical stuff, or any of it. He picked up the basics of how to turn the system on and run a loco pretty quickly. He's a bright guy, don't get me wrong, he just has no specialiazed training of any sort that might help him understand DCC - in fact he pretty much has no idea how it all works under the hood, just that he could select the cab number of one of his locos that I installed a decoder in and make it run.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The more things you want your system to do,the more complex it becomes. With complexity you get more places that can go wrong. The issue here is not so much DC or DCC or blue rail or pink engines, but getting the wireing done correctly and bullet proof. If we are honest with ourselves wiring is not our strong point. Murphys law will not be denied. The club I belong to has 2 men who used to install switch boards and the like for the phone company, they did most of the wiring for the clubs layout and we have had very few problems as a result.I imagine some yutz will say with dead rail you do not have those problems yadda yadda yadda. The vast majority of model railroads do not use dead rail. Blue train or what ever will see the same problems sooner or later.
cuyama JEREMY CENTANNI DCC is complicated Depends. I opened my NCE gear originally, plugged it in, turned a knob, ran trains.
JEREMY CENTANNI DCC is complicated
cuyama,
You must of cheated and looked at the manual. Similarly, with my Power Cab I think I was up and running in 5 min. Not complicated...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Some people just like to overcomplicate things instead of looking at the obvious. There's even less to hook up with the Zephyr than there is with a PowerCab - just 2 wires to the rails to terminals clearly labeled on the back, and plug in the power transformer to the rather obvious socket on the back. But just mention 'electricity' to some people and they instantly freak out and suddenly cannot follow basic directions. Really an amazing phenomenon. You can take someone who can completely tear down a complex racing engine and reassemble it with their eyes closed, but ask them to make sure there is power to the ignition module and their eyes glaze over.
Yeah, I agree with you, Randy, and with cuyama as well. When I got into HO scale back in early 2004, I started out with a DC power pack, then added 3 more DC power packs to run multiple trains on four concentric tracks. That got boring quick, so I bought an NCE PH-Pro 5 amp DCC system and had it up and running in minutes.
Rich
Alton Junction
rrinker Some people just like to overcomplicate things instead of looking at the obvious. There's even less to hook up with the Zephyr than there is with a PowerCab - just 2 wires to the rails to terminals clearly labeled on the back, and plug in the power transformer to the rather obvious socket on the back. But just mention 'electricity' to some people and they instantly freak out and suddenly cannot follow basic directions. Really an amazing phenomenon. You can take someone who can completely tear down a complex racing engine and reassemble it with their eyes closed, but ask them to make sure there is power to the ignition module and their eyes glaze over. --Randy
Randy, that is because electricity is magic, you have never actually seen it, so it must be magic. We have only seen what it does.....we have never seen "it".
Sheldon
cuyama rrebell No, it is so simple a manual is really not needed. Since you have indicated that you aren't even using BlueRail yourself, respectfully, how would you know? The amount of BlueRail hype on this forum has become egregious. Many carelessly cite features that the developers admit will only be available far in the future (if ever) as current capabilities.
rrebell No, it is so simple a manual is really not needed.
Since you have indicated that you aren't even using BlueRail yourself, respectfully, how would you know?
The amount of BlueRail hype on this forum has become egregious. Many carelessly cite features that the developers admit will only be available far in the future (if ever) as current capabilities.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL rrinker Some people just like to overcomplicate things instead of looking at the obvious. There's even less to hook up with the Zephyr than there is with a PowerCab - just 2 wires to the rails to terminals clearly labeled on the back, and plug in the power transformer to the rather obvious socket on the back. But just mention 'electricity' to some people and they instantly freak out and suddenly cannot follow basic directions. Really an amazing phenomenon. You can take someone who can completely tear down a complex racing engine and reassemble it with their eyes closed, but ask them to make sure there is power to the ignition module and their eyes glaze over. --Randy Randy, that is because electricity is magic, you have never actually seen it, so it must be magic. We have only seen what it does.....we have never seen "it". Sheldon
And still, Bluerail is a non starter for me because I don't have a smart phone, don't like touch screens, and want somthing I can use without looking at the throttle.
I have a very hard time with a tablet, and a tablet is too big to carry around as a throttle...........
The deal breaker for me is no sound in the actual locomotive for Bluerail. I'll take DCC any day of the week and three times on Sunday.
They do have sound onboard if you want it, you have to buy the parts yourself at this moment but it can be done especially in the larger scales.
rrebell They do have sound onboard if you want it, you have to buy the parts yourself at this moment but it can be done especially in the larger scales.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Randy, that is because electricity is magic, you have never actually seen it, so it must be magic. We have only seen what it does.....we have never seen "it". Sheldon
We don't see the water in the plumbing pipes either, unless there is a leak...
BTW I hate plumbing. Across several hosues I've seen very few wiring issues, but plumbing - forget it. Every cobbled together pile of junk you can imagine. There's a drip under my kitchen sink right now, and I might as well just repalce everythign from the sink to the main drain pipe at this point because what's under there is a convoluted mess with things coming off at odd angles to hook the two sinks plus dishwasher drain all together. Outside of the traps and some elbows, everythign si cut to fit, so why is it all so far off? I don't expect perfect but come on, you think anyone should be able to cut a piece of pipe to the nearest half inch or so. Not to mention there are all sorts of thinks linked together, it's not all ABS and not all stainless, but a mix with couplers from this to that - no wonder it's dripping.
ANd repalced the badly corroded valves at my washing machine. One already had a threaded connector soldered to the end of the pipe, so some plumber's tape and screw in the new valve and it was good to go, no drips at all. The other had an all soldered connection with a short piece of horizontal pipe, so I used one fo those Shark Bites things. Now I have to take it off and do a proper soldered conenction because the <fine> thing drips. Useless piece of junk, yet I had a licensend plumber tell me they are great. I should have just soldered it in the first place - I needed an excuse to buy a torch anyway. Now, since there is no other shutoff, I have to shut off the water to the entire house to replace this a SECOND time.
rrinker ATLANTIC CENTRAL Randy, that is because electricity is magic, you have never actually seen it, so it must be magic. We have only seen what it does.....we have never seen "it". Sheldon We don't see the water in the plumbing pipes either, unless there is a leak... BTW I hate plumbing. Across several hosues I've seen very few wiring issues, but plumbing - forget it. Every cobbled together pile of junk you can imagine. There's a drip under my kitchen sink right now, and I might as well just repalce everythign from the sink to the main drain pipe at this point because what's under there is a convoluted mess with things coming off at odd angles to hook the two sinks plus dishwasher drain all together. Outside of the traps and some elbows, everythign si cut to fit, so why is it all so far off? I don't expect perfect but come on, you think anyone should be able to cut a piece of pipe to the nearest half inch or so. Not to mention there are all sorts of thinks linked together, it's not all ABS and not all stainless, but a mix with couplers from this to that - no wonder it's dripping. ANd repalced the badly corroded valves at my washing machine. One already had a threaded connector soldered to the end of the pipe, so some plumber's tape and screw in the new valve and it was good to go, no drips at all. The other had an all soldered connection with a short piece of horizontal pipe, so I used one fo those Shark Bites things. Now I have to take it off and do a proper soldered conenction because the <fine> thing drips. Useless piece of junk, yet I had a licensend plumber tell me they are great. I should have just soldered it in the first place - I needed an excuse to buy a torch anyway. Now, since there is no other shutoff, I have to shut off the water to the entire house to replace this a SECOND time. --Randy
Randy,
If Reading was a little closer, I would come over and fix up your plumbing.....I do that too.
Wish I was closer too, would fix your plumbing. Just a note, replace any metal drain pipes under the sink with the white plastic ones with the hand tight nuts, save you alot of problems if you plan on living there a long time.
For starters you can use a sound cube in the larger scales. In the smaller you will have to cobble your own, the Bluetooth device itself is very small.
I'll trade anyone electrical work for plumbing LOL.
rrebell For starters you can use a sound cube in the larger scales. In the smaller you will have to cobble your own, the Bluetooth device itself is very small.
Oh, you're talking about a Bluetooth audio receiver in the loco to play the sounds from the phone. So, when you select a different loco, now you also have to select the audio receiver for that loco (I can see it now - "I'm running this diesel loco here, why is my sound coming out of that steam loco over there?").
Also, if you have to cobble your own, that certainly cancels out any ease of implementation advantage BlueRail has over DCC.
Remember this is still new and there is sound available. It is only a matter of time before there are sound decoders. I think the phone controler opens up a whole new area for customization with an easier interface.
Steve
Customization? - Yes. Easier interface? - Perhaps. One-handed? - Nope.
Choops Remember this is still new and there is sound available. It is only a matter of time before there are sound decoders. I think the phone controler opens up a whole new area for customization with an easier interface. Steve
One-handed? Yes
I dont see why someone could not add tilt function of the i phone to control the slider. just tip the phone back and fourth to control speed. tip left or right to control anything else.
The boards are already designed for that application, seen them but you are right, they don't fit alot of stuff at the moment.
tstage Customization? - Yes. Easier interface? - Perhaps. One-handed? - Nope.
Choops One-handed? Yes I dont see why someone could not add tilt function of the i phone to control the slider. just tip the phone back and fourth to control speed. tip left or right to control anything else. Steve
Steve,
How well would that feature work if you threw in horn, light, bell and direction?
The reason for asking is that I can do all that one-handed and without looking with my Power Cab. I can also control speed three different ways: gross, fine, and thumb wheel; again, without looking. The thumb wheel can also be set to "yard mode" so that a locomotive (e.g. switcher) can automatically change directions when the speed step dips below zero.
I still see the above interface primarily as a two-handed operation that requires the operator to be glued to the interface more than looking at one's layout to operate it. Customizable interface - yes. Appealing from an interface standpoint - not really.
I am following this thread with ever growing amusement!
So we are seriously discussing a technology which has nothing really new to offer in terms of features and user benefit, will remain more or less proprietary for a time span exceeding my current life expectancy and, adding insult to misery, offers ergonomic disadvantages over the current, well received and well established technology, which has not yet reached the limits of usage.
Oh well, so be it! I guess it is my limited understanding of today´s world, in which "new" does not necessarily mean "better".
So what´s wrong with the Model T? It got good gas mileage, was cheap to buy, easy to maintain and repair, didn´t need 4WD for the rugged country roads....
Nothing new to Offer? no signals in the rails. Customizable interface. battery operation. ergonomic disadvantage? Every kid has one.
model t was barely better than a horse.
p.s. I still prefer DC.