Trinity calls their rotary coal cars gondolas and the bottom discharge cars hoppers.
https://www.trinityrail.com/productcategories.aspx?sid=26
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Hopper cars have bottom discharge gates. Gondolas do not have discharge gates. Most are rotary dumped...
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
There's a distinction between a self-clearing car and a non-self-clearing car (although I've never been clear on how drop bottom gons do that make them not hoppers).
Because drop bottom gons don't have "hoppers":
"a container for a bulk material such as grain, rock, or trash, typically one that tapers downward and is able to discharge its contents at the bottom."
Gons have flat floors. Or they DID, back when they had the bottom doors. Hence they had no hoppers.
As is obvious, you can use drop bottom gons to carry bulk loads, or linear items like pipe and rail. Which true hopper cars don't do well at all.
Ed
The essence of the hopper car is the hopper itself - a container with a taper to the bottom. The taper is what helps the loading from the bottom, more so than would just a hole in the bottom for example.
Some gondolas have bottoms that open but they are doors that simply dump the load, and no taper. I have to assume that the mere fact that doors on a gondola bottom swing open does not necessarily mean that the load falls out unaided. More to the point it is not a directed or aimed unloading to a point or points as a hopper would offer. that may be a key definitional difference.
Dave Nelson
Pretty simple. Just Google the names. You will find plenty of images, and descriptions.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
So it's basically a difference in the bottom of the container.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
If a car has hoppers, it's a hopper car.
jrbernier Hopper cars have bottom discharge gates. Gondolas do not have discharge gates. Most are rotary dumped...
Au contraire. The D&RGW had thousands of drop bottom gondolas. I just purchased some RTR versions in HO from Intermountain - they are defnitely gondolas and have discharge gates on the bottom.
When you see these drop bottom gon's in trains, they sit significantly higher than standard gondolas to allow for room for the discharge gates to open below the cars. Here is a photo of an SP beet drop bottom gon.
I'm going to have to go with the tapered bottom characteriestic differentiating the hopper from the gondola.
Of course the D&RGW hauled lots of coal and other materials in both gondolas and hoppers. Prior to the 1950's, most of the D&RGW cars used for coal were drop bottom gondolas. When unit trains began to be popular in the 1960's, there was a large production of hi-side gondolas used to haul coal and they were rotary dumped.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I'd call that a Hopper-Gondola, wouldn't you?
Its called a hopper bottom gondola. In the era I model (1900-1905) it was the most common kind of coal car. By 1920 it was surpassed by the hopper car.
Its a gondola because it has a flat floor where the hoppers aren't . A hopper is "self clearing ", all the interior surfaces are sloped. A drop bottom gon is a gon because the area in the center over the underframe and any portions of the bottom that don't drop are a flat floor.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Or surpassed on the D&RGW by the drop bottom gondola in their case.
Neither the KCS nor the DRGW cars are fully self-clearing.
An advantage of the KCS car is that it dumps in the same outline as a regular hopper. So it should work well where there's a receiver between the rails. The DRGW doesn't do that well, at all.
An advantage of the DRGW is that, when the doors are closed, the floor is fully flat. The KCS car looks like the majority of the "floor" isn't there. Not too supportive for a load. And, if the receiving industry is set up for outside-the-rails dumping, it (DRGW) unloads nicely.
Model railroader and Supreme Court Justice, Potter Stewart, said about the hopper gondola controversy, 'I know it when I see it'. ......no ...wait....maybe that was something about movies?
Now if someone wanted to model this.
How would one go about modeling it?
Styrene or 3 D printing to scratchbuild, or find a rotary dump coal car with similar design and kitbash it.
What about cutting two of these and splicing?
Are you talking about kitbashing that?
What were you going to make from it?
Also, Hoppers are more W shaped, while gondolas sit lower and have more of a rectangle shape to them.
NWP SWP What about cutting two of these and splicing?
Sure. It looks promising. There are obvious similarities.
How accurate will the model be? How much work will it take to make it accurate enough for your tastes?
I am impressed with the KCS prototype. It would be a grand model to run!
NWP SWPWhat about cutting two of these and splicing?
.
That sounds like an A+ great idea.
How about buildng it and posting pictures in Weekend Photo Fun so we can all share in the excitement?
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I'm going to detail it a about as well as a Athearn RTR version of a Thrall Coal Gondola, and the biggest consession would be using friction bearing trucks, unless I go brass, if I can find them cheap enough. Another thing I might not do is have it lettered for KCS, maybe Rio Grande or SP.
I found 10 Roundhouse Thrall Coal Gons for 55 bucks, I might bid on them, I don't know if I will go for exact replication of the KCS prototype as far as the stall spacing and count and such.
NWP SWPI'm going to detail it a about as well as a Athearn RTR version of a Thrall Coal Gondola, and the biggest consession would be using friction bearing trucks, unless I go brass, if I can find them cheap enough.
If you are going to go with metal replacement trucks, Steven, I would just use Kadees. I've found brass trucks to be very tempermental because they can bend and distort easily.
At least that's the case on a few used brass cabooses that I purchased in the past. When I initially placed them on the track, they kept derailing. I soon discovered that the truck frame that attaches to the bolster was not flat but bent. I had to use some flat pliers to straighten them out; not difficult to do since the brass is thin and fairly pliable.
Kadee friction bearing trucks, IMO, would be more reliable, more readily available, and less expensive than brass ones. FWIW...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Why not used the roller bearing trucks that come with the HO Thrall gondola model. Since the prototypes were produced in the mid-1960's and afterward, I doubt they would have had friction bearing style trucks.
riogrande5761We can all give advise till we turn blue but is any of it being acted on in real life?
I have not seen any pictures of previous projects, but they were all way too ambitious that were mentioned before.
I have real hopes for this one. It is a good project for an early attempt, and I am looking forward to the pictures. I am also looking forward to answering questions that will arise, and seeing the final result.
Steven looks like he is on the "right track" with this idea.
I gotta find special trucks because the prototype rides of three axle buckeye roller bearing trucks.
NWP SWP I gotta find special trucks because the prototype rides of three axle buckeye roller bearing trucks.
From earlier "projects" I thought you stated that you weren't so concerned about accuracy. Why not just start the project and let the prototype trucks be icing on the cake? Until you enter it into a prototype kitbash contest, few folks are going to notice (or even care) they are "incorrect".
In the photo of those exotic long hi-side gondola's (leave you to find something exotic to focus on), the left car has 2-axle trucks and appears to be a similar car.
In the end I have to ask, why not just buy freight cars which were more common and save yourself and us a lot of drama?
I gotta cash my paycheck, and I'll order the stuff I need, so far I need two Roundhouse Coal Gondolas, I need a sheet of black styrene sheet, a Zona razor saw, and I tried finding black squadron putty but couldn't so I'm going to get gray. It'll probably be tomorrow afternoon when I order it all, I'm going to get my toolbag to work on the pool pumps at the hotel's right now. It a long story of why both pumps are broken and you probably won't believe me. I'll be sure to post pictures of the progress on the car project.
NWP SWP I'll be sure to post pictures of the progress on the car project.
I will be looking for the pictures in Weekend Photo Fun. You have comitted to posting update pictures before and always fell short.
As I said, I do believe this is the perfect project for you to finally "just do it", and I have faith that you can deliver this time.
I'm just curious why such a gon exists
Spring Mills Depot says they will be selling these trucks separately from their upcoming DODX heavy duty flat.
I did a little research on the KCS gon:
One thing, it's a 150 ton car. When new. Which can explain the 6-wheel trucks. I found a caption for the photo that notes that the two adjacent cars apparently had their trucks traded out for 4-wheel. I would think that that lowers the weight capacity of the cars.
Anyway, comparing the KCS car with the Athearn car in the other photo:
I had a look at dimensional data from the ORER. The KCS car is very roughly 22 feet longer, and 2' 8" taller. It is/was a humongous gon: 75' 11" overall length!
One COULD just lengthen the Athearn car out to about 76', and run it with regular 4-wheel trucks. Done that way, it's a pretty simple project; the trick being getting a really nice square and tight join. With a little care, you could use the BN prelettered cars (or maybe one of the other schemes), and just redecal the numbers and some of the data. This would, of course, be a fantasy car. But doing a simplified model is already a fantasy, anyway. If you found some older ones, they came 5 to a box. Two boxes would yield 5 of the longies. A nice block of cars to run in a train.
They were built as 150 ton coal cars, they were relegated to woodchip service when that happened some of the cars lost their buckeye three axles for standard two axle trucks, some cars also received 31" extensions to their sides to increase capacity.
I'm fine with Steven's enthusiasms. If I feel I'm putting too much time into one of his projects, I just stop.
Maybe he'll build something. Maybe not.
Gentlemen, I just placed an order for two roundhouse thrall 100 ton 50 ft high side gondolas, a Zona razor saw, a miter box, a sheet of evergreen black styrene, grey squadron putty, and a host scale ruler, it all came to 66 dollars. I will post updates as they happen. Thank you!
I got my popcorn and I am watching
NWP SWPI just placed an order for two roundhouse thrall 100 ton 50 ft high side gondolas, a Zona razor saw, a miter box, a sheet of evergreen black styrene, grey squadron putty, and a host scale ruler
That sounds like a good assortment. There are a lot of things that will make the project better that you might already have.
Sanding blocks, squares, small steel strips and rare earth magnets, a large flat mill file, and a sheet of tempered glass will all help.
If you need encouragement, just ask. If you run into trouble, just ask.
Most importantly... when it starts to go wrong, just finish it.
I understand the use of the other stuff but the magnets, steel strips, and tempered glass serve what purpose?
NWP SWPmagnets, steel strips, and tempered glass serve what purpose?
Steel strips and magnets are very useful for holding parts in alignment. Tempered glass s a perfectly smooth surface to assemble on. A piece of sandpaper on tempered glass can give a very smooth and even finished surface.
No worry if you do not have these... just get it done!
BigDaddy I got my popcorn and I am watching
Did you get the double extra large size?
SeeYou190Tempered glass s a perfectly smooth surface to assemble on.
I bought a polished granite floor tile 12x12 on sale as a leftover at a big box store, serves the same purpose. I usually use wet-dry sandpaper and wet it, then put it on the granite tile to get smooth cut surfaces.
I'll pick up a piece of smooth tile or such to use.
years ago i bought a 12" by 12" by 3" polished granet surface plate ( at the time the plate was under 25$ , think they can still be had for under 40 $ ) and a used starret surface gauge , found them to be a real assest through the years , not just for assembling and kit bashing things , but also for painting stright long lines on models.
j. c.and a used starret surface gauge
A surface gauge is indispensable. It is one of things that once you have used it, you can't go on without one.
I just bought a 12x12 black granite polished tile, #1 xacto blades, 400 grit wetordry, and rustoleum Satin Hunt Club Green, that's the color Imma gonna paint it.
Surface gauge:
Surface plate:
Going slightly fancy on the surface plate, I bought an aluminum one from The Train Shop in San Jose about a zillion years ago. It's 1/2 inch thick, 10 1/2" x 12 1/2", and fully machined. What's especially handy is that I cut two grooves in the plate at HO gage. That makes it SO easy to measure up from rail height.
The tile was only 4 bucks and was the smoothest, not too big piece I could find.
NWP SWP So it's basically a difference in the bottom of the container.
The cars came in today, along with the squadron putty.
I've ordered Athearn Buckeyes and perhaps I can figure out how to replace the friction bearings with roller bearings.
And I bid on a pair of Athearn BB covered gondolas, I'm going to borrow the covers off them for now and I'm going to steal the underframe to bolster the thrall underframes, I'll have to of course file down the rivets off the underframe.
NWP SWP I'll have to of course file down the rivets off the underframe.
Why?
NWP SWP The cars came in today, along with the squadron putty. I've ordered Athearn Buckeyes and perhaps I can figure out how to replace the friction bearings with roller bearings.
https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/trucks/p/3080/Default.aspx
I talked to Rod at the club, he wants me to wait and get with him to make resin castings of the part cars so I can mess up a few times and then once I make a single car I can use that as a master to make more single piece cars.
"Messing up" is part of the fun and education of kitbashing, as you hone your skills and correct your "mistakes". Just do it as you originally planned and have Rod give you pointers as you go along. While learning about resin casting might be useful, it's a different medium than styrene.
And perhaps I can make resin copies of the car to have a unit train set.
NWP SWPhe wants me to wait and get with him to make resin castings of the part cars so I can mess up a few times and then once I make a single car I can use that as a master
Well, this sounds like you are heading for another stalled project, and this fellow is giving you bad advice.
Excitement is never as high for a new project as when you first get started. You need to make progress as fast as possible in the beginning. This sounds especially true for you and the way you are distracted by the next interesting thing that comes along.
It is foolish to think your first kitbashwill be good enough to make masters from. So again, that sounds like bad advice for you.
I will say this one more time like everyone in here has told you. JUST DO IT!
Seriously, get this one done. Get experience. Learn the tools. Maybe in ten more projects you will make something good enough to duplicate in resin.
I cannot believe someone is encouraging you to stall a project.
SeeYou190Well, this sounds like you are heading for another stalled project... Seriously, get this one done. Get experience. Learn the tools. Maybe in ten more projects you will make something good enough to duplicate in resin.
Totally agree, Kevin.
tstage SeeYou190 Well, this sounds like you are heading for another stalled project... Seriously, get this one done. Get experience. Learn the tools. Maybe in ten more projects you will make something good enough to duplicate in resin. Totally agree, Kevin.
SeeYou190 Well, this sounds like you are heading for another stalled project... Seriously, get this one done. Get experience. Learn the tools. Maybe in ten more projects you will make something good enough to duplicate in resin.
Thirded. The guy at the club is encouraging you to add a higher degree of complexity to the project causing it to grow hair. Based on all the past "too ambitious" idea's, if you let this one get too complex, it may end up in the dust bin of history of projects with high hopes but never completed.
Forget adding extra things to the project. Just do the basic kit bash and follow it through to completion.
Well, may I be the 4th to agree!
Those of us that have built kits, kit bashed or scratchbuilt models started out pretty simple and basic, with typically each successive attempt better than the previous.
I urge you to start slow, keep your expectations reasonable, and just DO IT.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
If you have concerns about how to cut up the plastic bodies, the quick and cheap method is to photocopy or scan and print an image of the car side and then make the cuts on the paper copies. Literally cut and paste.
I do this all the time with buildings, it is waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy quicker than making resin copies (I also do resin casting).
Zona saw and miter box came in along with the scale ruler I ordered, still waiting on the styrene sheet.
We are bracing ourselves!
Should I attempt to get the spacing right on the braces?
At each end of the MDC cars the second stall at each end is wider than the rest.
After much anticipation, procrastination, and concentration, I present the first ever groundbreaking, earthshaking featured presentation, my first KITBASH!
YAAAAAAAAAAAY! And there was much rejoicing! Are you done with it yet?
I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.
I have some more work to do with it, strengthening the underframe, 6 axle trucks, cover (I know the prototype didn't have any but I'm putting one on it for now) and some details.
Now my biggest mistake was accidentally cutting the B ends off both cars so I have two brake wheels!
But I'm going to make another "better" one to make molds from to make resin versions to make a unit train of the things.
Looks pretty long. Will you be able to operate it on your club layout?
Yes, the car currently (minus couplers) measures 76 scale feet, I couldve cut it shorter to 73 sf but I thought longer looked better.
Steven,
I'm very proud of you.
HOORAY!
Thanks Ed, I want to thank you all for the nonstop pushing, I probably wouldn't've gotten the project started, let's hope that I can start moving towards tackling some of the other ideas I've had! After I finish this one of course!
NWP SWPNow my biggest mistake was accidentally cutting the B ends off both cars so I have two brake wheels
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
NWP SWPNow my biggest mistake was accidentally cutting the B ends off both cars so I have two brake wheels!
Yeah, I still do dumb things like that.
Heres some better pictures.
http://imgur.com/a/YYHZQDm
Yep, that looks like a kitbash. Congrats on getting it off the drawing table, Steven. We all make mistakes. And sometimes learning how to correct those mistakes is all part of the "fun" of the learning process.
Congratulation's on your first kit-bash !
Mistake's ??? Sure, but they make for a "One of a kind" car that 30 year's from now you will be proud to display on the mantle.
( who know's .... 30 year's from now a "collector" may pay big money for it. Stranger thing's have happened...)
Rust...... It's a good thing !
NWP SWP Heres some better pictures. http://imgur.com/a/YYHZQDm
Nicely done
Gary
Next test: Try running the car in a train, does it work?
Things to watch, how do the couplers line up on a curve? How do they mate with engines or cars of other lengths?
Next thing to consider is how you are going to mount the 3 axle trucks. You have to pay attention to where the kingpin (mounting pin)is relative to the axles and truck center. For example if the kingpin is centered on the truck, its possible that the trucks will stick out beyond the ends of the cars and look funky, or worse will conflict with the coupler and draft gear. If the kingpin is closer to one end of the truck that may work better. If the kingpin is centered and that's your on;y option you may have to consider changing the kit bash the move the bolster further from the end.
Here's the trucks I'm using.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F162884028759
They have a slightly off set bolster.
Gratz on your first kit bash. It looks pretty good and after painting will look even better.
Right now I'm tearing the car apart, I'm replacing the plates with full length plates, also I had to relocate the bolsters to accommodate the 3 axle trucks.
dehusman Next test: Try running the car in a train, does it work?
Yeah, don't spend a lot more time detailing it until you know it will work reliably. In particular, get the 6 wheel trucks mounted and coupler height correct, etc.
I'm working on a set of 4 TTEX flats. Those are the ones where two old cars are drawbarred together to make a super flat, and a trailer bridges the two cars. Athearn made one version:
Anyway, I've got mine far enough along that I'm going to bring them to a get-together on Labor Day for a nice test run.
Then I'll fix what needs fixing, finish the detailing, and paint.
Getting the new trucks mounted properly and getting the coupler height to perfection is, as someone in a commercial once said, Job One. For you. Mine are looking real good, right now.
To get the coupler height correct I'm probably just going to get offset shank kds because in order to get the truck clearance I can't shave down the bolster.
Some of the changes I've made are, the 3 axle trucks, couplers, new bottom plate inside the car, one other change I'm going to make is the side plates at the joint will be re-replaced with some cardstock thickness styrene in an effort to make the plates invisible.
The six-wheel trucks look good on the car.
Yup, coming along nicely.
And those are shorter than what the prototype had! They're 8 footers the proto had 11 footers!
I forgot to mention the big mistake I made!
I accidentally spilt half of my testors styrene cement, so now I need a new scale ruler! Being that the glue "ate" mine.
NWP SWP And those are shorter than what the prototype had! They're 8 footers the proto had 11 footers! I forgot to mention the big mistake I made! I accidentally spilt half of my testors styrene cement, so now I need a new scale ruler! Being that the glue "ate" mine.
Your scale rule is plastic? Hmmm...the one I have is stainless steel...General Model Railroad Reference Rule #1251:
https://www.generaltools.com/industrial-precision-12-in-flexible-steel-rule-with-model-railroad-graduations
I'll order one of those and another plastic one, the plastic one was good because it's thin and flexible so I could get it into the interior of the cat to make measurements, also it was semi translucent which helped with figuring out where to cut the cars.
NWP SWP I'll order one of those and another plastic one, the plastic one was good because it's thin and flexible so I could get it into the interior of the cat to make measurements, also it was semi translucent which helped with figuring out where to cut the cars.
Micro-Mark has something similar:
https://www.micromark.com/Model-Rr-Rule
Tomorrow is the club meeting I'll put the car in a freight to see the tracking ability. To weight the cars do I add 6.25 Oz to the car starting weight (NMRA standard is 1 ounce + .5 Oz per inch of car length)(the car is 10.5 inches long, that's 5.25 Oz plus the ounce starting so 6.25) the car on its own weighs in at 3.5 Oz and after a load or cover is added and the underframe is reinforced (via fishbelly runners) the car will probably weigh in the ballpark of 4 to 5 ounces, so do I weight 6.25 Oz on top of that, so the car as it is now would tip the scales at 9.75 Oz or do I just add the difference? So 6.25 Oz is max combined weight of car and auxiliary weighting?
NWP SWP So 6.25 Oz is max combined weight of car and auxiliary weighting?
Yes, and if you haven't already worked it out, I'd suggest you place the weight equally over the trucks.
The NMRA standard is recommended, I tend to weigh my cars slightly heavier but then doctorwayne uses “live “loads in his cars which really increase the weight.
With your goal of having a reliable running car, don’t be afraid to add weight, if it helps.
Cheers, the Bear.
So the car should be closer to 6.25 Oz total weight than 9.75!
Attention RioGrande5761 and other critics
Whether NWP SWP ever completes one of his projects should not be fodder for your speculation or criticism. I don't see anyone cracking the whip over how much or how little progress you're making on your projects. If all that ever gets done is talk, what skin is that off your nose? Back off. Stop reading his threads if it bugs you so much. You may think you're encouraging him to get building, but that's not the effect you're having. Stop being such a wet blanket.
Unconstructive posts in this thread, and posts that reply to them, will shortly be deleted.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Steven Otte Attention RioGrande5761 and other critics Whether NWP SWP ever completes one of his projects should not be fodder for your speculation or criticism. I don't see anyone cracking the whip over how much or how little progress you're making on your projects. If all that ever gets done is talk, what skin is that off your nose? Back off. Stop reading his threads if it bugs you so much. You may think you're encouraging him to get building, but that's not the effect you're having. Stop being such a wet blanket.....
Whether NWP SWP ever completes one of his projects should not be fodder for your speculation or criticism. I don't see anyone cracking the whip over how much or how little progress you're making on your projects. If all that ever gets done is talk, what skin is that off your nose? Back off. Stop reading his threads if it bugs you so much. You may think you're encouraging him to get building, but that's not the effect you're having. Stop being such a wet blanket.....
As I see it, Steven likely wouldn't have accomplished anything without the prodding he's received. That he handled that prodding as well as he did surprised me, as did the job he accomplished with his first kitbash.The combination of helpful suggestions and comments of the naysayers, in my opinion, help to put Steven's feet back on the ground, channelling his over-enthusiasm into concrete results.
Steven Otte....Unconstructive posts in this thread, and posts that reply to them, will shortly be deleted.
When I first came to the MR Forums in 2004, I was absolutely appalled at the negative and demeaning comments directed towards Jeffrey, and it almost caused me to forego this site. Fortunately, another Member here directed me to what is now the Big Blue forums, where Jeffrey was also a Member and getting a much kinder reception.
While I agree that derogatory and overly negative remarks do need to be moderated (I moderate on Big Blue), I don't see any of what's been posted in this thread fitting into that category.
As for riogrande5761, his latest post seems pretty conciliatory to me:
riogrande5761 Gratz on your first kit bash. It looks pretty good and after painting will look even better.
...and, credit to Steven...
NWP SWP .....I want to thank you all for the nonstop pushing, I probably wouldn't've gotten the project started, let's hope that I can start moving towards tackling some of the other ideas I've had! After I finish this one of course!
.....I want to thank you all for the nonstop pushing, I probably wouldn't've gotten the project started, let's hope that I can start moving towards tackling some of the other ideas I've had! After I finish this one of course!
From what I've seen my critics have been pretty quiet now that they see the progress I'm making.
I really think some of you guys were expecting another failure, but this time it wasn't, why? Because I have a paycheck coming in so I can finance these projects.
Mr. Otte, this time I'm good and hold no malice towards my critics, just a bit more acknowledgement from them would be nice.
Well I'll post some picture of the car running on the club layout.
NWP SWPI really think some of you guys were expecting another failure, but this time it wasn't, why? Because I have a paycheck coming in so I can finance these projects.
Actually, failure had nothing to do with it, Steven, because little had been done prior to that. Some of us expected this project would likely go the way of your previous projects - i.e. words but no action. Now you've taken action and done a respectable job at it.
And you don't have to have a lot of money to accomplish a kitbash...but it does help.
OK moving on, I weighed the car earlier, I followed NMRA standards BUT on difference if the car weighs a fraction of an ounce the weight is rounded up to the nearest half ounce, I might change this further to round up to the nearest whole ounce.
Edit.
I just updated the car weight to 7 ounces.
Also for the time being I packed the weight (copper BBs) in ceran-wrap and then wrapped it with a little scotch tape to simplify the transport of car and weight, the weight I'll place dead center in the car.
doctorwayne Steven Otte ....Unconstructive posts in this thread, and posts that reply to them, will shortly be deleted. While I agree that derogatory and overly negative remarks do need to be moderated (I moderate on Big Blue), I don't see any of what's been posted in this thread fitting into that category.
Steven Otte ....Unconstructive posts in this thread, and posts that reply to them, will shortly be deleted.
The discouraging posts I was referring to were deleted.
OK I really weighted the car with pennies taped together and placed equally at each end of the car, I'll be testing with the pennies and BBs (separately of course) to test performance.
Sheet lead is the best looking alternative for an open top car, but it is difficult to find and can be a hazardous material if not handled properly. Sheet metal is close second, but steel or brass is more challenging to cut. Another alternative is to figure out how many pennies, bb's or shot is required and figure out how much of the floor will be covered by a single layout of the material. Then put square plastic strip a bit bigger than the thickness of the weight around that area of the floor, glue in a single layer of the weight and cover it with a layer of .010 plastic that sits on top of the plastic strip. When painted the sheet plastic can blend into the floor, especially if the car is black. For BB's or shot, I like white glue or CA, for pennies, I usually use latex caulk.
dehusmanSheet lead is the best looking alternative for an open top car, but it is difficult to find
Sheet lead is readily available on eBay at very reasonable prices. I buy mine in 1/32" thickness. It cuts easily in a paper cutter to HO car width and is easy to work with.
Do handle it carefully, and do not leave it exposed.
OK so heres the downlow on the car, the couplers are uphigh.
What I meat if because the buckeyes needed the bolster relocated and higher the couplers are half again too high, so I have to develop a plan to lower them, the bolster could in theory be lowered but I'm worried about the trucks not clearing. I even swapped the 36" wheels for 33" but that 1 looks funny and 2 they aren't correct for the car 3 the trucks won't clear as well.
I'll work on them some more to see if I can get it right.
Edit. Also when I build the next car I might consider correcting the stall spacing on the second stall. At each end.
NWP SWP It a long story of why both pumps are broken and you probably won't believe me.
I worked in a hotel. I'd believe **** near anything.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
NWP SWP
Well done!
NWP SWPOK so heres the downlow on the car, the couplers are uphigh
I think the car looks great! Can you post a picture of the bolster modification?
Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge
Steven Otte doctorwayne Steven Otte ....Unconstructive posts in this thread, and posts that reply to them, will shortly be deleted. While I agree that derogatory and overly negative remarks do need to be moderated (I moderate on Big Blue), I don't see any of what's been posted in this thread fitting into that category. The discouraging posts I was referring to were deleted.
doctorwayne
I'll post a picture in a while, it might not be till this evening, I have a lot of stuff to do today.
I wants some of those now. Keep up the good work!
BNSF/UP, I'll PM you some specifics of what I did if you're interested.
I'm going to also be writing up an article for MR on the next car build.
I just emailed MRs article submission email about writing an article and I am now awaiting a response.
Wayne, well said and thank you for the defense. This is Mr. Otte's forum of course, but looking at the big picture, I don't see things as dire as I was called out for, rather I see positive good things as evidenced by this latest topic. And where before, there was a lot of pushing needed, now we are seeing the fruits and young Steven is to be applauded and encourage here.
As my oldest brother says, "Do something, even if it's wrong."Teaching myself to weather, I did a LOT of horrible weathering jobs. That's why I bought a bunch of 99 cent junk cars at flea markets to practice on."Hey, Cabbie, how do I get to Carnegie Hall?""Practice, practice, practice!"Also -- your craftsmanship is quite good. The car is straight and level, and there is no obvious external seam where you made the join. Nicely done.
OK I did not get a chance to photograph the bolster, I made a boo boo, one of the guys at the club suggested filing down the bolsters a little, well I barely filed any off and the trucks now sit at an angle because they're catching on the underframe, now I tinkered some more and I think I fixed it, if not I will put a washer to make up the difference, and I ordered long shank couplers, I might have to just cut the draft gear boxes off the extra lengths of underframe I have and glue them on top of (under) the existing boxes to get the coupler height corrected.
Also the underframe is going to be slightly beefed up via the addition of fishbelly runners. Overall I'm pretty satisfied with the overall result.
Two things I need to do, study some of the GACX (ex-KCS) cars to see some of the end details and I need to order something to cut the styrene sheet better like a paper slicer or something (insert your suggestions here)
I am considering leaving this car unpainted being it's my first car, I will be building another and documenting the construction in detail in both photos and text for my article.
Sometimes one makes a "proof of concept" car, as a test.
And then makes the real one. And the next......
True.
Don't worry about it Steven. I want so many different cars and I meant they look so good that I would want them. I have so many other projects I need to finish though...
7j43k Sometimes one makes a "proof of concept" car, as a test. And then makes the real one. And the next......
Ed,
Exactly. I did that with a NYC emergency war caboose that I kitbashed from a MDC 40' wood boxcar and Walthers wood caboose. It turned out decent but I'd like to make another that's better and more accurate.
Right now I'm working on detailing a Kato NW2 switcher with photo-etched parts. I purchased a used Kato NW2 shell off eBay to experiment with first. After I've completed the mock-up and I'm happy with the results, I'll detail the undecorated shell that I'll eventually paint for the NYC.
Okay I'm getting ready to call NWP-SWP shops car #001 complete and begin the next one.
Only thing I'd like to change is use a 76 foot (or two shorter ones spliced) as the chassis and mount the gondola bodies atop that.
This change is because I just don't find the first cars underframe beefy enough for the length of the car.
What I probably will do is take two flat car kits (probably around 62 ft or so) sand down the deck, cut the cars, then glue the spliced gondola body on top of them and thereby splicing them.
Now I hope the flat cars I use are a little narrower than the gondola so the little side supports can be extended (via styrene strip) down the side of the of the flat car which I'll have to sand down as well.
Your car, you can try it, but I think it will look better if you just add some strips of styrene to the underside to create the fishbelly and then extend the side stakes.
I think the approach you are heading toward will look like you glued a hopper shell on a flat car.
The alternative is to cut the floor of the hopper out, trim the sides, but not the side stakes and replace the bottom couple feet of the hopper sides with the fishbelly off the flat car, keep in the flatcar truck bolsters and coupler mounts.
Those MDC/Roundhouse gons had alignment issues with the underframes and the side stakes When I repainted a few last year as scrap service gons, I built new underframes. From their thickness and how the crossmembers align with the side stakes, it makes more sense to fabricate them instead of trying to modify a flat.
The problem is I am having a time trying to cut styrene straight.
But yeah the undertakes don't align very well.
I think I'm going to mod a flat for the next car, why well the nice thing about a flat (especially a higher tonnage one with 36" wheels) is the new trucks should slide under pretty easily while retaining proper coupler height.
Right now I'm having to cut the gearboxes off the extra underframes to get the couplers perfect.
NittanyLion Those MDC/Roundhouse gons had alignment issues with the underframes and the side stakes
Those MDC/Roundhouse gons had alignment issues with the underframes and the side stakes
Thankfully, Athearn corrected the misalignment issue with the bottom and side stakes when the upgraded the MDC gondolas for the RTR series.
Here's my progress,
I cut off the extra brake wheel/mounting box and the end ladders (I will be replacing them but I didn't get to it tonight)
I solved the coupler issue.
Beefed up the underframe.
Made a cover for it (it's just a temporary fix till I make a load (and I had the parts laying around)
Now I need to figure where to put the underframe details (photo below) I essentially have two sets of underframe mounting holes so where should what go?
Next project will probably use the left over parts, the two (no longer covered) covered gons will lose their sides except for over the trucks, kinda a low end bulkhead flat with short walls at each end to buttress the ends, why will I cut off the sides well one car is pretty messed up because when I went to remove the covers half the side came with it.
And the two extra thrall coal gon ends might make a ore jenny, maybe but they're really in bad shape from all the cannibalizing I did to them for parts.
And the next super gondola I do will probably use the sides and underframes from a fishbelly gondola and the sides of the thrall coal gons to get the look right, it'll be a bit more involved and less straightforward that way but it will hopefully come out a bit closer to the prototype.
NWP SWP Now I need to figure where to put the underframe details (photo below) I essentially have two sets of underframe mounting holes so where should what go?
Just do one set, and put the pieces where the directions say.
So I'll just put all the stuff in the holes dictated by the instructions and closest to the end with the brake wheel.
That's what I'd do.
Here's the latest pictures, scroll to the bottom for the finalized photos.
I weighted the car to 8 Oz. And my standard will be 8 ounces per car, period, regardless of length, my reasoning is that if you have a cut of cars and there's a few shorter cars thrown in with longer ones they will be more likely to derail due to the NMRA length based metric making them lighter, if all cars weigh the same then sorting cars in the right "order" is less imperitive.
I believe to be more typical, you should turn the air reserviour 90 degrees and swap the brake cylinder and triple valve.
Also, you should install the stirrup steps before you paint it.
Are you going to letter it for the NWPSWP?
I was following the instructions from the kit. That's why the air system placement is such.
I omitted stirrup steps for 2 reasons, 1 the trucks don't clear them, 2 they break off too easily.
I'll probably paint it hunter green and the lid moss green an eventually letter it NWP SWP.
I just corrected the details placement.
The weights are two 20 penny stacks for each end of the car. I used pennies because they weigh a smidge under 1 Oz so they're really precise. I glued them together with guerrilla glue and I'll put them in in the morning.
You could leave it like it is. I was just stating what would be typical. In freelancing a model railroad, being typical makes it more "believable" when viewed.
The actual layout of air system parts can be virtually anything. The connecting pipes just need to be routed correctly to the correct ports on the real things.
For your model for publication you should use as many parts from the Tichy brake system kit as possible and run the piping and actuating levers.
Is there any reason you have the covers? Those were designed to protect coil steel and the gons that had them were assigned to coil steel service. The gon you have built is definitely NOT a coil steel gon. Its designed for relatively light commodities (coal and wood chips)
I added the cover in place of a load temporarily.