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Hopper or Gondola, is there a difference?/My First Kitbash.

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  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: Potomac Yard
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Posted by NittanyLion on Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:09 PM

I'm just curious why such a gon exists 

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:26 PM

NWP SWP

I gotta find special trucks because the prototype rides of three axle buckeye roller bearing trucks.

 

 

Spring Mills Depot says they will be selling these trucks separately from their upcoming DODX heavy duty flat.

 

Ed

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:50 PM

I did a little research on the KCS gon:

 

One thing, it's a 150 ton car.  When new.  Which can explain the 6-wheel trucks.  I found a caption for the photo that notes that the two adjacent cars apparently had their trucks traded out for 4-wheel.  I would think that that lowers the weight capacity of the cars.

 

Anyway, comparing the KCS car with the Athearn car in the other photo:

I had a look at dimensional data from the ORER.  The KCS car is very roughly 22 feet longer, and 2' 8" taller.  It is/was a humongous gon:  75' 11" overall length!

 

One COULD just lengthen the Athearn car out to about 76', and run it with regular 4-wheel trucks.  Done that way, it's a pretty simple project; the trick being getting a really nice square and tight join.  With a little care, you could use the BN prelettered cars (or maybe one of the other schemes), and just redecal the numbers and some of the data.  This would, of course, be a fantasy car.  But doing a simplified model is already a fantasy, anyway.  If you found some older ones, they came 5 to a box.  Two boxes would yield 5 of the longies.  A nice block of cars to run in a train.

 

Ed

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Posted by NWP SWP on Thursday, June 28, 2018 3:01 PM

They were built as 150 ton coal cars, they were relegated to woodchip service when that happened some of the cars lost their buckeye three axles for standard two axle trucks, some cars also received 31" extensions to their sides to increase capacity.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, June 28, 2018 9:00 PM

I'm fine with Steven's enthusiasms.  If I feel I'm putting too much time into one of his projects, I just stop.

Maybe he'll build something.  Maybe not.  

 

Ed

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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, June 29, 2018 6:02 PM

Gentlemen, I just placed an order for two roundhouse thrall 100 ton 50 ft high side gondolas, a Zona razor saw, a miter box, a sheet of evergreen black styrene, grey squadron putty, and a host scale ruler, it all came to 66 dollars. I will post updates as they happen. Thank you!

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, June 29, 2018 6:42 PM

I got my popcorn and I am watching  :popcorn:

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, June 29, 2018 7:22 PM

NWP SWP
I just placed an order for two roundhouse thrall 100 ton 50 ft high side gondolas, a Zona razor saw, a miter box, a sheet of evergreen black styrene, grey squadron putty, and a host scale ruler

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That sounds like a good assortment. There are a lot of things that will make the project better that you might already have.

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Sanding blocks, squares, small steel strips and rare earth magnets, a large flat mill file, and a sheet of tempered glass will all help.

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If you need encouragement, just ask. If you run into trouble, just ask.

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Most importantly... when it starts to go wrong, just finish it.

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-Kevin

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Living the dream.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, June 29, 2018 7:48 PM

I understand the use of the other stuff but the magnets, steel strips, and tempered glass serve what purpose?

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, June 29, 2018 8:03 PM

NWP SWP
magnets, steel strips, and tempered glass serve what purpose?

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Steel strips and magnets are very useful for holding parts in alignment. Tempered glass s a perfectly smooth surface to assemble on. A piece of sandpaper on tempered glass can give a very smooth and even finished surface.

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No worry if you do not have these...  just get it done!

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-Kevin

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Living the dream.

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Posted by maxman on Friday, June 29, 2018 8:16 PM

BigDaddy

I got my popcorn and I am watching  :popcorn:

 

Did you get the double extra large size?

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Posted by dehusman on Friday, June 29, 2018 8:57 PM

SeeYou190
Tempered glass s a perfectly smooth surface to assemble on.

I bought a polished granite floor tile 12x12 on sale as a leftover at a big box store, serves the same purpose.  I usually use wet-dry sandpaper and wet it, then put it on the granite tile to get smooth cut surfaces.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by NWP SWP on Friday, June 29, 2018 11:11 PM

I'll pick up a piece of smooth tile or such to use.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by j. c. on Friday, June 29, 2018 11:15 PM

years ago i bought a 12" by 12" by  3" polished granet surface plate ( at the time the plate was under 25$ , think they can still be had for under 40 $ )  and a used starret surface gauge , found them to be a real assest through the years , not just for assembling and kit bashing things , but also for painting stright long lines on models.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, June 29, 2018 11:22 PM

j. c.
and a used starret surface gauge

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A surface gauge is indispensable. It is one of things that once you have used it, you can't go on without one.

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-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, June 30, 2018 4:23 PM

I just bought a 12x12 black granite polished tile, #1 xacto blades, 400 grit wetordry, and rustoleum Satin Hunt Club Green, that's the color Imma gonna paint it.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, June 30, 2018 5:40 PM

Surface gauge:

Surface plate:

 

  

Going slightly fancy on the surface plate, I bought an aluminum one from The Train Shop in San Jose about a zillion years ago.  It's 1/2 inch thick, 10 1/2" x 12 1/2", and fully machined.  What's especially handy is that I cut two grooves in the plate at HO gage.  That makes it SO easy to measure up from rail height.

 

Ed

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Posted by NWP SWP on Saturday, June 30, 2018 6:47 PM

The tile was only 4 bucks and was the smoothest, not too big piece I could find.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by wjstix on Sunday, July 1, 2018 11:11 PM

NWP SWP

So it's basically a difference in the bottom of the container.

 

 
No, it's really the entire interiors.
 
A gondola car is a rectangular open-topped box with a flat floor. It's all 90 degree angles. You could easily walk around inside an empty gondola, as it's flat inside.
 
 
"Hopper" is a very old (13th century) word for a container that is bigger on the top and narrows to a small bottom, meant to be emptied through the bottom. A hopper car's interior has two, three or four hoppers or 'bays' inside. Each bay has walls that slopes down at an angle towards the bottom doors where the product being carried (coal, rock, etc.) can be discharged. 
 
 
A drop-bottom gondola has doors built into the floor that are hinged towards the middle of the car so that when released the product in the car spills out to the side of the tracks (rather than straight down between the rails like a hopper car). Most likely, someone would have to get inside the car with a shovel to clear out the product from the center areas not by the doors. In the olden days, many small coal dealers preferred coal in drop-bottom gondolas, because the coal went to the side and was easier to remove manually or with a portable conveyor.
 
 
 
 
Stix
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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, July 3, 2018 3:47 PM

The cars came in today, along with the squadron putty.

I've ordered Athearn Buckeyes and perhaps I can figure out how to replace the friction bearings with roller bearings.

And I bid on a pair of Athearn BB covered gondolas, I'm going to borrow the covers off them for now and I'm going to steal the underframe to bolster the thrall underframes, I'll have to of course file down the rivets off the underframe.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, July 3, 2018 6:34 PM

NWP SWP
I'll have to of course file down the rivets off the underframe.

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Why?

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-Kevin

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Living the dream.

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Posted by j. c. on Tuesday, July 3, 2018 7:15 PM

NWP SWP

The cars came in today, along with the squadron putty.

I've ordered Athearn Buckeyes and perhaps I can figure out how to replace the friction bearings with roller bearings.

 

 

 

https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/trucks/p/3080/Default.aspx 

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, July 3, 2018 9:24 PM

I talked to Rod at the club, he wants me to wait and get with him to make resin castings of the part cars so I can mess up a few times and then once I make a single car I can use that as a master to make more single piece cars.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, July 3, 2018 10:02 PM

"Messing up" is part of the fun and education of kitbashing, as you hone your skills and correct your "mistakes".  Just do it as you originally planned and have Rod give you pointers as you go along.  While learning about resin casting might be useful, it's a different medium than styrene.

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by NWP SWP on Tuesday, July 3, 2018 10:26 PM

And perhaps I can make resin copies of the car to have a unit train set.

Steve

If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!

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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, July 4, 2018 6:44 AM

NWP SWP
he wants me to wait and get with him to make resin castings of the part cars so I can mess up a few times and then once I make a single car I can use that as a master

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Well, this sounds like you are heading for another stalled project, and this fellow is giving you bad advice.

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Excitement is never as high for a new project as when you first get started. You need to make progress as fast as possible in the beginning. This sounds especially true for you and the way you are distracted by the next interesting thing that comes along.

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It is foolish to think your first kitbashwill be good enough to make masters from. So again, that sounds like bad advice for you.

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I will say this one more time like everyone in here has told you. JUST DO IT!

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Seriously, get this one done. Get experience. Learn the tools. Maybe in ten more projects you will make something good enough to duplicate in resin.

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I cannot believe someone is encouraging you to stall a project.

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-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

Moderator
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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, July 4, 2018 7:46 AM

SeeYou190
Well, this sounds like you are heading for another stalled project...

Seriously, get this one done. Get experience. Learn the tools. Maybe in ten more projects you will make something good enough to duplicate in resin.

Totally agree, Kevin.

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, July 4, 2018 8:19 AM

tstage
 
SeeYou190
Well, this sounds like you are heading for another stalled project...

Seriously, get this one done. Get experience. Learn the tools. Maybe in ten more projects you will make something good enough to duplicate in resin. 

Totally agree, Kevin. 

Thirded. The guy at the club is encouraging you to add a higher degree of complexity to the project causing it to grow hair.  Based on all the past "too ambitious" idea's, if you let this one get too complex, it may end up in the dust bin of history of projects with high hopes but never completed.

Forget adding extra things to the project.  Just do the basic kit bash and follow it through to completion.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by mobilman44 on Wednesday, July 4, 2018 8:28 AM

Well, may I be the 4th to agree!

Those of us that have built kits, kit bashed or scratchbuilt models started out pretty simple and basic, with typically each successive attempt better than the previous. 

I urge you to start slow, keep your expectations reasonable, and just DO IT.   

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by dehusman on Wednesday, July 4, 2018 10:40 AM

If you have concerns about how to cut up the plastic bodies, the quick and cheap method is to photocopy or scan and print an image of the car side and then make the cuts on the paper copies.  Literally cut and paste.

I do this all the time with buildings, it is waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy quicker than making resin copies (I also do resin casting).

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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