I understand that and in that case I will work to help the preservation of them.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
cascadenorthernrrThen I want to point out that she has been sitting there rusting away, my opinion is the museums have had their chance to rescue her.
It is now under new ownership. These things take time. It is not something that happens overnight. You have demonstrated the lack of understanding of the preservation community. They will fight you tooth and nail to prevent what you are trying to do.
cascadenorthernrrAnd anyway I would like to say this is America so if I buy it its my business what I do with it.
In your hypothetical dream world, yes. In reality, which is what Tom was trying to give you a solid dose of, these artifacts dont belong to you. You cannot walk up to someone and demand they sell things to you. This is America.
ACY3. Your last point illustrates that your goal never was preservation at all. Your goal is and always has been the selfish motive of sole ownership. Conversion to a private car is probably an impossibility. If it is possible. it would involve removal of the historical texture of the artifact. No serious preservationist would agree to participate in such a travesty as making it into a very expensive, historically destroyed cabin.
These are my thoughts exactly.
Au contraire, presevation and recording the history would be my first goal I would remove the interior components and restore them. Then I want to point out that she has been sitting there rusting away, my opinion is the museums have had their chance to rescue her. I would not destroy it on the outside it would be the SAME locomotive the interior components would be donated to a museum or something. And anyway I would like to say this is America so if I buy it its my business what I do with it.
Ref. your post of two hours ago:
I know you have asked me not to respond to your posts because you were offended by something I said in an earlier thread. I have tried to comply, but this thread has developed to have an unnatural life of its own, and it's gone on long enough. It has become offensive to those of us who take railway historic preservation seriously.
1. Since there's only one T-3a, it seems that any preservation effort should ensure that this one survivor can be enjoyed by as many people as possible. What makes you so special that you think you should have it all to yourself?
2. I know nothing about you except that you are young and naive. Maybe you have the time, facilities, money, tools, experience, and expertise to do this restoration. Maybe not. If you can do all this, where will you run it?
3. Your last point illustrates that your goal never was preservation at all. Your goal is and always has been the selfish motive of sole ownership. Conversion to a private car is probably an impossibility. If it is possible, it would involve removal of the historical texture of the artifact. No serious preservationist would agree to participate in such a travesty as making it into a very expensive, historically destroyed cabin.
Tom
P.S. There still has been no input from the actual owner(s) of the items, and they just might have an opinion about what you should do with/to THEIR property.
So making it a cabin like GN 411 is the most feasible.
cascadenorthernrr Two, why couldn't I restore it to running condition? Three, could it possibly be converted into a private car?
Given enough money anything is possible.
The engine only operated in one small area in the US, and it wasn't in Louisiana. There is no place to operate it if it was restored, unless you were going to invest another several million dollars a mile to build your own electrified railroad.
You could hollow it out and put seats in it, once again for more millions of bucks. but where would you operate it? Its not compliant as an Amtrak car so neither Amtrak nor any class 1 is going to want any part of hauling it around. Once again you could spend millions of dollars and buy a shortline or pay a shortline a bunch of money and they might roll it back and forth a couple miles. That's about it.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
One, anyone can have a private car but there's only one T-3a. Two, why couldn't I restore it to running condition? Three, could it possibly be converted into a private car?
If I had a couple million to burn, I would buy my own railcar that would take me places, like one from Ozark Mountain
Restore an engine, albeit an rare engine, that sits in you backyard and what have you really done?
No one is going to a a museum of one engine. You can't drive it down your own personal tracks. When old age and ill health set in, it rusts into the condition it is now to become an albatross for your children.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
That's the entire collection though. Who is the owner, by the way? And when I looked at the area in 3D mode it appears there are some passenger cars there too.
The locomotives at Glenmont, NY are not abandoned, Ive found the owners. Cost of moving the collection is upwards of $1,000,000 for just moving 100mi or so. That should give you an idea what they are up against.
Thats why I'm that much more determined to save it! In the words of President John F. Kennedy "We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard!"
BMMECNYCAlso getting a crane in there will be difficult, as the locomotives are located just north of some of the transmission lines leaving the power plant.
They used four side booms to load the 1306 onto flat cars.At any rate the locomotive would be loaded in pieces just like the 1306.
Then there's a lot of unanswered questions that must be satisfactory answered including would the railroads involve be willing to tie up their main with a special move.
The cost would be in the millions by the time everything is added up. I suspect that's why that equipment hasn't been relocated.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
If anyone wants to check out the Trains Forum sister thread to this one it's under Steam & Preservation.
cascadenorthernrr Sorry my mistake. I edited my post to have your username instead.
Sorry my mistake. I edited my post to have your username instead.
No worries.
cascadenorthernrr BMMECNYC, does that mean you are going to try to buy them?
BMMECNYC, does that mean you are going to try to buy them?
I am not going to buy them, I will however volunteer some of my spare time and money towards getting the ball rolling on preservation, once I determine who the actual owner is. All that I have been able to find is that sometime in the 1980s the owner was one of the chapters of the NRHS. They dont have a website (the NRHS link is to the NRHS Alco photo service).
I have contacted the NRHS as to the current owner and status. At some point they were located within the fenceline of the powerplant. More recently they were moved outside the powerplant's property at the request of the powerplant. There are other pieces of the same collection further down the tracks in the woods. From what I can tell from internet forums (not exactly the most reliable source of information), the land is private property.
BMMECNYC Whoever "they" are, meaning the owners
Which I now intend to find out. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Until your post I was unaware of the existance of these two pieces. I have contacted the NRHS to inquire. Also joined the NRHS. <---See you did some good.
I said renovate and it's better it gets a new life than turn into a pile of rusted metal. And anyway on can dream!!!
Your stated plan was to gut it and turn it into a living space. Thats not a restoration.
So that you can take it to Louisiana and let it rust away there? Unless you are obscenely rich, no they will likely not sell it to you. Whoever "they" are, meaning the owners.
You mean "yup" as in yes I would rather it rust away than be restored?
maxman
Yep...
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
So one would rather it rust out in the woods than be restored??? And I must point out I was born in New York so I'm a yankee too!!!
dehusman plus I rather doubt that NYC fans will support you moving a NYC engine for the Northeast to Louisiana.
Also yes
BMMECNYCStep ___ Document the as found condition of the locomotives including photographs and measurements of as installed equipment. Step 2.1 Obtain the necessary permits from the local governments to do the abatement work. Step 2.2 Hire contractor to do abatement and dispose of the hazardous material. (you will not likely turn a wheel until this is done) Step 7 is actually step 1. Step 2, 3, 4, 5 will not even talk to you beyond maybe a quote, which you will likely have to pay for, without the money or financial plan to raise the money.
Actually work backwards.
1. Do you have aplace to put it where you live?
2. Figure out if you can get it from where it is to where you want it to go and what that will take.
3. Figure out what it needs to get it ready for whatever transportation mode you want (no point spending a million bucks on reburbishing the running gear and brake system if you are trucking or barging it).
4. Start the refurbishment.
5. Finalize the transportation plan.
6. Move it.
Of course all this discussion is just an amusing exercise. If your parents aren't supportive of you having a layout, I doubt they will cough up several million dollars to move the engines, plus I rather doubt that NYC fans will support you moving a NYC engine for the Northeast to Louisiana.
It cost Houston $600,000 to barge a full size mock-up space shuttle from Cape Canaveral to Houston. That weighed 62 tons, compared to the 100+ tons your T motor weighs, so they'd require similiar barges.
Based on that mileage and cost, you're already around $1.6 million just to move a dang barge.
cascadenorthernrr So step one would be see if the owner would consider selling, two find out what needs to be abated, three find a company to do the lifting, four find a form of transportation (rail, barge, truck), five find a shop to do the restoration work, six get final destination to be suitable and accessible by rail, seven figure out financial budget, eight begin the process of buying.
So step one would be see if the owner would consider selling, two find out what needs to be abated, three find a company to do the lifting, four find a form of transportation (rail, barge, truck), five find a shop to do the restoration work, six get final destination to be suitable and accessible by rail, seven figure out financial budget, eight begin the process of buying.
Step ___ Document the as found condition of the locomotives including photographs and measurements of as installed equipment.
Step 2.1 Obtain the necessary permits from the local governments to do the abatement work.
Step 2.2 Hire contractor to do abatement and dispose of the hazardous material.
(you will not likely turn a wheel until this is done)
Step 7 is actually step 1. Step 2, 3, 4, 5 will not even talk to you beyond maybe a quote, which you will likely have to pay for, without the money or financial plan to raise the money.
Ok so barge would be optimal, right? Its right there by the Hudson and I live near the Mississippi so the tough part would be getting it from BR to Ethel.
NHTX One more consideration with these old electrics is hazardous materials such as PCBs in the transformers and asbestos. Local laws may preclude moving the locomotive until these issues are addressed. If its an interstate move, every jurisdiction on the route of travel must be satisfied the movement meets their requirements for ensuring public safety. That is probably why these motors are still sitting there rusting away which is a darn shame.
One more consideration with these old electrics is hazardous materials such as PCBs in the transformers and asbestos. Local laws may preclude moving the locomotive until these issues are addressed. If its an interstate move, every jurisdiction on the route of travel must be satisfied the movement meets their requirements for ensuring public safety. That is probably why these motors are still sitting there rusting away which is a darn shame.
Its a multi million dollar event in any case. It will take years and hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, to get the locomotives in a suitable condition to move on a class 1 railroad (assuming that they can be made road worthy at all).
It will take years of preparations with the railroads (and once again hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not a million) to actually move it 1200 miles.
Trucking it would save all the roadworthy expenses but would once again take years of preparation since it would require special high capacity trucks and clearances in all the states it will pass through, plus a route that can accept it over 1200 miles.
Generally railroads are extremely resistant to moving this type of equipment long distances. They are a HUGE risk of something going wrong and in most cases if it goes wrong there are no spare parts to fix it. That's why they charge so much.