I enjoy running My ATHG AT&SF Freight Blue/Yellow F3 A-B-B-A set on our clubs module layout. I discovered it is pretty easy to model a transition era freight train with any ATHG F3's/F7's, some steam era freight cars, and the right type of caboose. I know 50/60's are usually stagnant and don't change much, but that was my first train I started with when I joined the club. I'm slowly working on expanding my roster collection based on what I like, not what someone else says.
It depends on where you are. I see UP, NS, and CN freights through here along with regular Metra commuter traffic, and just about any type of freight car still in service runs through here pretty regularly. If I modeled modern day in my area, there would be *so much* to choose from.
I do wonder what's going on at the Vulcan Materials siding though, the same SSAM jennies have been sitting there for months.
Friday afternoon was funny stuff. 11 CN locomotives pulling 8 tank cars. Anyone sensible would probably see this as a power move, but I like to think of it as overkill :)
Julian
Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)
I take back the no autoracks because the first doublestacks just moved through Virginia Ave on saturday.
Last year I had a motel room overlooking the tracks coming off of Long Bridge into DC. We're talking "stone's throw" distances.
Lotsa juice. Lotsa what looked like phosphates. Fair amount of chemicals.
I surely miss Pot Yard. And the grade crossing at Burke, VA.
And, occasionally, my yute. Near Burke. And Alexandria.
OK. If you insist: looking out the window of freshman english at the southbound tracks of Potomac Yard.
Ed
jecorbett I'm joining this discussion late so I might be repeating some things others have already said but I'll throw my in anyway. First of all, I'm a transition era modeler so I don't have a lot of interest in modern day railroading. I haven't researched it at all so these are just casual obervations. It does seem like there is much less emphasis on retail railroading and much more on unit trains where a single commodity is sent by one shipper to one customer. A coal mine and a power plant for example. Most of the freights I see when I am stopped at a crossing will have no more than two or three different types of freight cars in long strings. I'm guessing these strings are all going to one place. I'm sure there are exceptions but I don't know of anywhere that you might see a peddler freight stopping to spot one or two cars. About the only variety I see is the grafitti on the cars, something that seems to have become prevelent in the last 20 years.
I'm joining this discussion late so I might be repeating some things others have already said but I'll throw my in anyway.
First of all, I'm a transition era modeler so I don't have a lot of interest in modern day railroading. I haven't researched it at all so these are just casual obervations. It does seem like there is much less emphasis on retail railroading and much more on unit trains where a single commodity is sent by one shipper to one customer. A coal mine and a power plant for example. Most of the freights I see when I am stopped at a crossing will have no more than two or three different types of freight cars in long strings. I'm guessing these strings are all going to one place. I'm sure there are exceptions but I don't know of anywhere that you might see a peddler freight stopping to spot one or two cars. About the only variety I see is the grafitti on the cars, something that seems to have become prevelent in the last 20 years.
This is extremely reliant on where you live though. Here in DC and Northern Virginia, the only unit trains are the Juice Train and coal moving to Georgia and South Carolina. Two out of three trains is a manifest freight. The most common thing I see is boxcars. It's a huge shift from Pittsburgh, where it was all coal, scrap, and coil cars. We don't even get autoracks through Virginia. They don't fit in the tunnel under Virginia Ave in DC.
My family took an overnight train from Montreal to Toronto in the early 50's. As I recall, it was a very pleasant experience.
In the mid to late 50's I hung out around the Bay Area SP stations, tracks, and yards. Stations and other facilities were still neat and clean. Equipment was painted, as far as I can remember. I know it was nothing like the horrid shape it later descended into.
In school there was a lot of talk about railroads, but it was all about the end of steam. Even the adults were sad.
CG
ATLANTIC CENTRALDid all that "new" last real long? Maybe not, but model railroading is like a snapshot in time........that's why I model 1954........ Sheldon
That's why I like 77/78 era,lots of colorful IPD short line boxcars.
There is a difference between the early 50s and late 50s as well as location.I remember well the PRR steam along side of brand new GP9s and RS11s in the mid 50s. I also recall N&W's GP9s and RS11s stayed cleaner then PRRs.
One thing I never seen modeled..The soiled toilet paper found along the track. You recall "Passengers will please refrain from flushing toilet while standing at a station".
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE ATLANTIC CENTRAL The 60's and into the 70's, now that is a different story. That was truely the beginnng of the "we don't care", run down, rusty, paint peeling, junk eras, not unlike today. Sheldon Very true but,there was a rainbow in the late 70s called the IPD boxcar era where very colorful and brand new 50' boxcars was seen everywhere. Back to the 50s..The railroads was filthy,grimy and beginning to run down due to the State and Federal Governments forcing rails to operate unprofitable branch lines and passenger trains which cost millions to keep in operation. John G. Kneiling The Professional Iconoclast even stated railroads was doom if they didn't change their business as usual practices. He preached unit trains,intermodal trains,smaller crews and cabooseless trains was the future of railroading if they wished to survive beyond the year 2000.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL The 60's and into the 70's, now that is a different story. That was truely the beginnng of the "we don't care", run down, rusty, paint peeling, junk eras, not unlike today. Sheldon
Very true but,there was a rainbow in the late 70s called the IPD boxcar era where very colorful and brand new 50' boxcars was seen everywhere.
Back to the 50s..The railroads was filthy,grimy and beginning to run down due to the State and Federal Governments forcing rails to operate unprofitable branch lines and passenger trains which cost millions to keep in operation. John G. Kneiling The Professional Iconoclast even stated railroads was doom if they didn't change their business as usual practices.
He preached unit trains,intermodal trains,smaller crews and cabooseless trains was the future of railroading if they wished to survive beyond the year 2000.
I think we need to seperate the early 50's from the late 50's.........
And, the railroads were all in for piggyback/intermodal, very soon after WWII - it was the government that was in the way.........
If rates and territories for both trucks and trains had been deregulated then, not 30 years later, railroads would have done better, trucking would be different but very effective, 100's of billions of gallons of diesel fuel would have been saved, and the highways would be less crowded and safer.......
My father worked in the trucking industry, he was offered a job with the Southern Railroad's piggyback operation. He gave it a try, but problems with regulations slowed its implimentation and he moved on back into the trucking side.
The early/mid 50's was full of new colorful box cars, B&O silver and blue, NYC red and grey, MP blue and yellow, and the piggyback shemes were bright and fancy too.
Did all that "new" last real long? Maybe not, but model railroading is like a snapshot in time........that's why I model 1954........
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRALThe 60's and into the 70's, now that is a different story. That was truely the beginnng of the "we don't care", run down, rusty, paint peeling, junk eras, not unlike today. Sheldon
Along my favorite stretch of railroad (BNSF at Lyle WA), I saw last year:
A whole lotta "unit" trains: coal, oil, grain, ocean intermodal, military, land intermodal, trash (ugh!).
And.
Some regular trains with "assorted" cars. Woodchip, centerbeam, tank, box, flats with steel sheet, flats with poles, gons with scrap steel...........
The local. I had a radio, so I could hear them discussing with the dispatcher about picking up or dropping off (can't remember which) a load of wood--I think at Bingen. And not tying up the main. Power for the local tends to be one or two GP38-2's and/or derated GP50's.
And one CABOOSE. Yup. Which prompted me to order one of the recent Atlas versions.
BRAKIE For those that would like to see the older EMD switchers and Geeps railfan short lines and for the most part boxcars ladings are their bread and butter. Its great to see a old GP9 pulling 6 or more boxcars..Some shorties still use a Alco end cab switcher as well..
For those that would like to see the older EMD switchers and Geeps railfan short lines and for the most part boxcars ladings are their bread and butter.
Its great to see a old GP9 pulling 6 or more boxcars..Some shorties still use a Alco end cab switcher as well..
Mostly what I see pulling the grain trains on the Ohio Central Newark-Mt. Vernon branch is an old EMD switcher, painted orange and white with no lettering. I used to see an occasional Geep as well. I live about 3 miles from Utica which the daily train passes through on its way up and back down the line. On most days I can hear the horn blowing as it negotiates the numerous grade crossings on the line.
First of all, I'm a transition era modeler so I don't have a lot of interest in modern day railroading. I haven't researched it at all so these are just casual obervations. It does seem like there is much less emphasis on retail railroading and much more on unit trains where a single commodity is sent by one shipper to one customer. A coal mine and a power plant for example. Most of the freights I see when I am stopped at a crossing will have no more than two or three different types of freight cars in long strings. I'm guessing these strings are all going to one place. I'm sure there are exceptions but I don't know of anywhere that you might see a peddler freight stopping to spot one or two cars. About the only variety I see is the grafitti on the cars, something that seems to have become prevelent in the last 20 years. What I really don't like about modern day freights is the lack of a caboose at the end. I know they have been gone for over 30 years and there is no reason to have one anymore but it still looks wrong to me.
Even on the little Ohio Central branchline that passes through my little burg of Utica, OH there is little variety. A single train travels from the mainline in Newark to the service the grain elevators in Mt. Vernon. The typical consist is 12-15 60' boxcars. On a couple of occasions I have seen a couple tank cars in the consist. To the best of my knowledge the grain elevators are the only customer on the line. There is a grain elevator in Utica as well but it doesn't have a rail siding anymore. Last year I did spot a spur a couple blocks south of the Mt. Vernon grain elevators that led to a covered platform. I wondered if this was a team track and whether or not it was still used but so far I haven't figured it out.
So yes, I do find modern railroading to be boring because of the lack of variety in most of the consists but that's not to say it's boring to everyone. Like everything else in this hobby, it's a matter of individual preference.
tstage ATLANTIC CENTRAL I restored/hot rodded/rebuilt this Chevy in my teens: '62/'63 Nova??? Had a '76 with the straight 6, 250 for a couple of years. Loved the simplicity and ease of working under the hood. Tom
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I restored/hot rodded/rebuilt this Chevy in my teens:
I restored/hot rodded/rebuilt this Chevy in my teens:
'62/'63 Nova??? Had a '76 with the straight 6, 250 for a couple of years. Loved the simplicity and ease of working under the hood.
Tom
Tom,
Yes, 1963 Nova SS convertible. Nova convertibles only made 62 and 63. 63 only Nova convertible with the SS package , which was still a 6 cylinder. V8 not offered in the Nova until 64.
But, late in 63 the factory offered a dealer installed V8 package.
Mine was built as a 6, converted to a V8 by me with full 64 driveline and suspension upgrade. When I bought it, it did not run, the PO had started the V8 conversion and lost interest. I took it nearly completely apart, took nine months to restore/rebuild.
I built the 283 V8, 327 large valve heads, 327 factory hi lift cam, aluminum manifold, 600 cfm Holley carb, custom ignition curve tuning, headers, 2.5" exhaust - about 325 hp.
Muncie M20 4 speed, corvette clutch, heavy duty anti sway bars, adjustable shocks.
Body virtually stock with all SS trim, custom interior, 160 MPH in dash factory look speedometer, original SS full instruments.
Manual steering/manual drum brakes/manual convertible top
0-60 = less than 6 sec.
standing 1/4 mile = 14.5 sec.
top speed = 130+ (don't ask how I know)
fuel economy = 22 mpg highway/12 mpg city
Some not so great photos during the project:
It was my daily driver from 1976 until 1983, about 80,000 miles - then I sold it for nearly what I had invested in it.
It was great fun - so was the blonde........then I bought another Checker for the blonde and I to haul the babies around.......
richg1998:
Yes, trains and containers are there to move stuff. But the more imaginative designs and liveries of the past illustrate the point that they can entertain us too, if the effort is expended. I'm more favorably disposed toward a company that interests me, and I don't care much for one that bores me. Whether that translates into a better bottom line for that company, is a question beyond my pay grade.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I have been considering a new vehicle. The Flex wasn't remotely on my radar, but after reading Sheldon's description, I will be sure to take a look at it when I decide to make the jump. I too am a big fan of all wheel drive.
Edit:
Apparently Ford has plans to kill the Flex by 2020 because it isn't a big enough seller.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI restored/hot rodded/rebuilt this Chevy in my teens:
Now there's a roof line that I could be happy with!
My second car was an MGB which I managed to get about 200,000 miles out of through numerous rebuilds and some pretty creative patchwork. I could sit in that car with the top up and still wear my Reserve Officer's dress hat! Today, IF I could get into one (which I doubt) I would probably have to call the fire dept. to get me out again!
By the way, I always thought the Checkers looked pretty good too.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
richg1998 Lets get real folks. Trains are used to move stuff, not entertain us. Rich
Lets get real folks. Trains are used to move stuff, not entertain us.
Rich
And cars are used to transport us and out stuff, yet look at the effort spent on making them attractive.....most of it unsuccessful.....
hon30critter Sheldon: I am not a Ford fan but if I was to buy one it would be the FLEX for all the reasons that you state. My current ride is a 2014 Honda Odyssey. It is one of the most comfortable cars/vans/whatever that I have owned. Getting in and out is easy for both my wife and me. My lower spine is fused so ducking under a low roof line really messes up my hair (and I am bald on top!). A friend of mine recently bought a Honda SUV. In order to get in and out of the thing I have to drag the top of my head across the top of the door frame. What a stupid design! Regards, Dave
Sheldon:
I am not a Ford fan but if I was to buy one it would be the FLEX for all the reasons that you state. My current ride is a 2014 Honda Odyssey. It is one of the most comfortable cars/vans/whatever that I have owned. Getting in and out is easy for both my wife and me. My lower spine is fused so ducking under a low roof line really messes up my hair (and I am bald on top!). A friend of mine recently bought a Honda SUV. In order to get in and out of the thing I have to drag the top of my head across the top of the door frame. What a stupid design!
Regards,
Dave, the Odyssey is by far the best of the mini vans, and Honda is a great company.
My personal objection to the mini van concept is the driver position, somewhat high and close to the front, but most importantly I don't care for front wheel drive.
Our FLEX is all wheel drive, a concept I am now sold on for passenger vehicles.
25 years ago I was not a FORD fan either, but 20 years of excellent experiances has changed my mind. That big green truck pictured above, just purchased in 2015, replaced a 2000 FORD F150 with 240,000 trouble free miles of construction work use.
Both FLEX's we have owned - first one crashed at 50,000 miles - have been trouble free, as were several Crown Vic's, several Explorers, and even a Focus our daughter put 170,000 miles on - can't say that about the Nissan she had.....
But I'm happy to be a FORD man today,
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
BRAKIE For those that model the 50/60s you need to dirty your layout..Railroads was filthy,ran down and in overall deplorable condition.Passenger train was filthy,late and apt to have a break down enroute. There was few exception but,the heyday was over and Government bailouts was the norm. As a youthful and naive modeler I got a shocking surprise once I became a student brakeman I learn the cold facts breakdowns,bad track, poor equipment was the norm---just like my railroading family said. I don't know about rusty boxcars because I haven't seen any and I railfan daily even if its from my man cave window that faces the NS Sandusky mainline. My man cave is the former master bedroom that is now filled with my video gaming table with 32" LED TV,switching layout,work desk and computer desk. I spent most of the morning reading MR,Trains Magazine,Railfan and watching NS trains.
For those that model the 50/60s you need to dirty your layout..Railroads was filthy,ran down and in overall deplorable condition.Passenger train was filthy,late and apt to have a break down enroute. There was few exception but,the heyday was over and Government bailouts was the norm.
As a youthful and naive modeler I got a shocking surprise once I became a student brakeman I learn the cold facts breakdowns,bad track, poor equipment was the norm---just like my railroading family said.
I don't know about rusty boxcars because I haven't seen any and I railfan daily even if its from my man cave window that faces the NS Sandusky mainline. My man cave is the former master bedroom that is now filled with my video gaming table with 32" LED TV,switching layout,work desk and computer desk. I spent most of the morning reading MR,Trains Magazine,Railfan and watching NS trains.
Larry, I have studied a lot of pictures from the 50's, and I remember the 60's rather well.
I don't think the two eras can be lumped together so much.
From what I have seen, in the 50's, yes, trains were dirty, it is dirty business. And there was some degree of left over, worn out, over worked WWII rolling stock floating around. But there was masive reinvestment in rolling stock, larger better hopper cars, piggyback equipment, new bigger box cars, mechanical reefers being developed - and last ditch efforts at new, fast, shinny passenger trains. So, my studies say dirt?, yes. Decay?, not so much in the 50's.
The 60's and into the 70's, now that is a different story. That was truely the beginnng of the "we don't care", run down, rusty, paint peeling, junk eras, not unlike today.
riogrande5761 CentralGulf Station wagons are still around. They just renamed them SUVs. CG If you have to repeatedly put a child into a car seat and get them out again, you'll notice there is much more to the difference between a station wagon and an SUV than just the name!
CentralGulf Station wagons are still around. They just renamed them SUVs. CG
Station wagons are still around. They just renamed them SUVs.
If you have to repeatedly put a child into a car seat and get them out again, you'll notice there is much more to the difference between a station wagon and an SUV than just the name!
Respectfully, that depends a lot on the "station wagon". The long, low, miserable cars of the 60's and 70's, yes. The low, small, cramped cars of today maybe so, but few of even the "crossovers" truely qualify as a "station wagon" in my view.
We care for two grandchildren at our house, and we have owned our share of SUV's, namely FORD EXPLORERS, and we are now 60 years old, plus or minus.
As a daily passenger/pleasure vehicle I don't want a vehicle that I have to "climb up into", nor do I want a vehicle I have to "fall down into" and then "climb out of". The FLEX requires niether, just like a Checker or a 55 Chevy, the seats are at the correct height for easy entry and exit. A fact not lost on my wife who has Rheumitoid Arthritis.
Originally, SUV's were just station wagons built on a pickup truck chassis. They have evolved, but winter weather/light off road ground clearance still requires them to be high enough to require "climbing up".
For work and winter weather I have this:
Most cars have not been designed for real utility in more than 50 years now. In most cases, it is all about "style", or fuel economy, or ego gratification, or as much of all three as they an squeeze in.
The FLEX defies the 50 year trend and captures much of the utility of the CHECKER, or the INTERNATIONAL TRAVELALL - form follows function.....so far, like the CHECKER, the FLEX body design has not materially changed in the 9 years it has been on the market. While CHECKER made improvements, the core design was the same from 1956 until the end of production in 1983.
It's real easy to get the grand kids in and out of their car seats in our FLEX station wagon.......we didn't have car seats like today when I raised my kids driving a CHECKER.
Yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To me the Checker is a great looking car, so is the FLEX. Corvettes, not so much. Judging on looks alone, my all time favorite is the 58 Impala. Most all new cars are boring, just like modern freight trains. And I really hate the non discript washed out metalic paint colors on cars in the last 30-40 years........
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
NittanyLion I think they accept the realities of their environs that the containers live in. They have short, brutal lives getting banged around and exposed to salt air. Why waste paint?I watched an intermodal train go by my office today and learned (from the side of a bright blue CMA CGM container) that some containers use bamboo flooring these days. And Dong Fang's little dolphins amuse me. I miss Mitsui OSK's alligator. Haven't see one of those in a long time.
I think they accept the realities of their environs that the containers live in. They have short, brutal lives getting banged around and exposed to salt air. Why waste paint?I watched an intermodal train go by my office today and learned (from the side of a bright blue CMA CGM container) that some containers use bamboo flooring these days.
And Dong Fang's little dolphins amuse me. I miss Mitsui OSK's alligator. Haven't see one of those in a long time.
Myself, I'm especially fond of Evergreen: Big old billboard lettering. AND. They haven't changed the lettering scheme in about forever. Very convenient, era-wise.
As opposed to Hanjin and Hyundai, that each have at least two lettering variations to consider.
I'm also fond of this one:
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH27847
It's Saudi. Not something ya see too often over here.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL All Checkers have a flat back seat floor, no drive shaft tunnel. The sedans have 57" of leg room, about 30" of flat open floor, the rear seat is basicly behind the doors. The wagons have less for the folding seat, but still have plenty of room. That 1969 wagon I learned to drive on lasted 14 years, 270,000 miles, when my sister crashed it........others had similar life spans in terms of mileage....in a day when most cars only lasted 100,000 miles.
All Checkers have a flat back seat floor, no drive shaft tunnel. The sedans have 57" of leg room, about 30" of flat open floor, the rear seat is basicly behind the doors. The wagons have less for the folding seat, but still have plenty of room.
That 1969 wagon I learned to drive on lasted 14 years, 270,000 miles, when my sister crashed it........others had similar life spans in terms of mileage....in a day when most cars only lasted 100,000 miles.
Sheldon,
With a 35" inseam, 57" of leg room is music to my thighs.
I had heard that the Checkers had great life spans; making them quite adept for taxi service - with the bonus of their abundance of rear seating room for multiple fares. I've known only one other person to have owned a Checker. And I remember it being a very quiet car - both inside and out.
tstage ATLANTIC CENTRAL VERY nice, Sheldon! You sure don't see too many of those these days. I bet the back seat of a Checker has more room than the entire interior of most modern economy cars. Tom
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
VERY nice, Sheldon! You sure don't see too many of those these days. I bet the back seat of a Checker has more room than the entire interior of most modern economy cars.
I learned to drive on a 1969 Checker wagon almost identical to the one in the photo, same colors and all. My father special ordered it brand new. Then I later owned three others, two sedans and a wagon.
I saw American Graffiti seven times at the drive-in in that red Checker wagon.......
The FLEX is the first modern car to have the comfort, utility and space that can compete with the Checker design, combined with modern features - 360 HP twin turbo V6, all wheel drive, etc. The Checker actually got slightly better gas mileage than the FLEX does. Some of the Checkers had V8's, they got about 20 mpg on the highway. Some had inline 6 cylinders, the wagon I had with a six got 28 mpg highway......from a full sized car.
The red FLEX in the photo is actually gone now, the wife was in a crash and totaled it in Oct 2015, but it has been replaced with an all white 2015 FLEX LIMITED with all the same features. The car saved the lives of my wife and grandchildren, no question, only the most minor injuries.
Yes, we love our big boxy "station wagon", and with 360 HP from twin turbos, it runs away from a lot of "sporty" cars.....
7j43k Right. EVERGREEN spread all along the side of a green container is being shy and dainty? Visually, the paint and lettering schemes on the sides of containers are exactly the same as boxcars fron the '50's and '60's. Actually, I will agree. Sort of. As much as I see a pretty broad use of "big letters" across containers, I don't see ANY great graphics. THAT is pathetic. All hail McGinnis!!!! Ed
Right.
EVERGREEN spread all along the side of a green container is being shy and dainty?
Visually, the paint and lettering schemes on the sides of containers are exactly the same as boxcars fron the '50's and '60's.
Actually, I will agree. Sort of. As much as I see a pretty broad use of "big letters" across containers, I don't see ANY great graphics.
THAT is pathetic.
All hail McGinnis!!!!
I still call mine a station wagon even if FORD does not:
And it is interesting that its major dimensions match this very close:
Yes, without question, "boring" is in the mind of the individual........
I don't like modern trains or most modern cars......But the FLEX, well that is the best car I have owned since I owned one of those Checkers......