ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't "railfan", never have really. Sitting by the tracks waiting to see a train is like watching paint dry or grass grow to me. Sheldon
I don't "railfan", never have really. Sitting by the tracks waiting to see a train is like watching paint dry or grass grow to me.
Sheldon
On my semi-decade-ly bouts of "railfanning", I bring a stack of books. Helps a lot. I also spend a good bit of time seeing what one doesn't see--sorta zen, that--noticing particular wildflowers and former water tank foundations. And watch the weeds (grass) grow.
Every 5 years (starting in 2005), I "camp out" next to my favorite rail location and photograph everything that goes by. Car by car. Well, not in '05, 'cause I was using film. And my winder couldn't have kept up. Not to mention, the film change every 36 shots. That problem/irritation has been SOLVED.
Back in 2005, I shot an SDP40 and a GP60B. And lots C44-9W's. And more.
In 2015, lotsa C44-9W's. And a dome-obs on the tail of an Amtrak train. And a mil-train. And more.
I try to record both the usual and the unusual that go by each time so as to get a sense of it. And then possibly model it. All this is, I guess, not really railfanning, but recording.
Back in the '70's, I'd go out to the local railroads and photograph "freight cars of interest". Again, not really the regular railfanning.
Ed
ATLANTIC CENTRALNow, that said, here is how I railfan. The Strasburg Railroad is only 50 minutes from my house, and they run most of the year, including weekdays. So I can jump in the car, with a friend, or the wife, or alone, and buzz up there, watch some steam action, ride the train, pop into the Pennsylvania Railroad Museum, go to the train shop, all in a nice afternoon.
Sounds like a great way to kill a lazy summer Saturday.I would love to do that once.
However..
To my mind its make believe only because I have fond memories of N&W M1 4-8-0 #444 switching cars at Kroger bakery. This required 3 hours to switch due to the number and location of car spots.
Sadly around 1957/58 a GP9 replaced 444.
I also recall the last of PRR steam in every day service. The last PRR 0-6-0 was used by the salvage company until '60 for moving loaded gons of cut up steam engines..She to would be scrapped on site.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE Guys,I just turn 69 and have a bad ticker so,I still enjoy railfanning on a beautiful Spring or Summer day since its a matter of time before I get called to what lays beyond the veil. When the old mercury climbs into the 90s its time to model or railfan from my air condition man cave window-a former 10x12 foot master bedroom.
Guys,I just turn 69 and have a bad ticker so,I still enjoy railfanning on a beautiful Spring or Summer day since its a matter of time before I get called to what lays beyond the veil.
When the old mercury climbs into the 90s its time to model or railfan from my air condition man cave window-a former 10x12 foot master bedroom.
I'm only 10 years behind you, but luckily in good health so far. I just prefer people in very small doses, and again, my primary interest in trains is more historical.
Now, that said, here is how I railfan. The Strasburg Railroad is only 50 minutes from my house, and they run most of the year, including weekdays. So I can jump in the car, with a friend, or the wife, or alone, and buzz up there, watch some steam action, ride the train, pop into the Pennsylvania Railroad Museum, go to the train shop, all in a nice afternoon.
Way more interesting than CSX, no matter how many times I have been there in the past. (been going since I was a small child.....)
About the only exciting things that go through here are if one of the NS Heritage units is on the train, or when the East Penn Railway uses running rights with some older power they use. Otherwise about the only thing that goes by when it's daylight and I'm not at work are auto racks, tank trains, or (mostly) containers on well cars. There's a mixed freight each way, I don't know how many times each day or how many days of the week I've managed to see a few times, but usually it runs when I'm not there to see it. Very little switching in the immediate area. I do hear more trains than I see, several times at night I hear them blowing for crossings.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Well, Larry, I don't watch much TV, especially not sports. Stopped following any sports years go.........never really was a big deal to me. Was there some sort of big game last weekend?
Don't play golf........
I do enjoy a good movie on a regular basis, at home or in the theatre.
Otherwise I have plenty to keep me busy, lots of trains to build.
Even my interest in the social side of this hobby has been up and down. For years I was active in a local Round Robin here, just got to the point where I would rather work on my own stuff than "hang out" with anybody........
ATLANTIC CENTRALI don't "railfan", never have really. Sitting by the tracks waiting to see a train is like watching paint dry or grass grow to me.
That's how I feel about golf and sports in general with TV a tight second. I watch three hours of TV a day,Emergency! Chips and M*A*S*H..
A day at a railfan park or hot spot is refreshing and relaxing and the fans you meet sure enough beats staying home on a beautiful day.
With my railfan experience I can say with knowledge that boxcars are still quite common and you never know what you will see like SD40-2s/SD40-3s on a NS and CSX freight train in 2017. A BNSF "warbonnet" or a cream and green BNSF locomotive or a B&M gon or boxcar. I've seen older Seaboard System covered hoppers,few Chessie covered hoppers among other fallen flag railroads including a faded CR gon with a E-L diamond starting to show through the fading paint.
I haven't even touch the short lines with first and second generation locomotives.
Boring? Not likely..Watching grass grow sounds more like watching golf or baseball.
One guy whacks a little white ball with a miniature hockey stick and chases it down with the other guy hits a larger white ball with a round stick and then runs like the devil was chasing him and then he gets to walk back.
Once again we agree more than we diagree, Sheldon. Will I watch a modern trin go by? Sure. Do I actively seek out prime times and locations to go watch them? No.
And modeling the mid 50's makes for a HUGE variety. Many railroads around, so lots of road names can appear in a train. You can legitimately have steam and diesel locos. And unless you are modeling a small shortline, you can have a huge variety of first generation diesels because all the builders were around, and many railroads at least sampled each of the major builders before deciding which ones to stick with. You can have some pre-war cars on the roads, because not everyone could afford that brand new '55 Ford. Things were changing fast - passenger trains were still a big deal but the Interstate highway system was under construction and car and truck traffic were on the rise. Car types were more varied - not everything was neatly packed up in boxcars, plenty of stuff still rode flats and in gons. Of course the caboose was still on every train.
A great time to model, even if I wasn't there to see it in person.
If you take any 10 year span, the train at the beginning of the span will be noticeably different than the trains at the end of the 10 year span.
As for boring, actually look at a rail yard in the transistion era. 90% of the cars are a reddish brown or black. If you are in an area that handles reefers maybe throw in yellow or orange.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
BUT, do I pay attention when I'm near the tracks and a train happens by? YES, I live near the northeast corridor, my day to day takes me by the tracks all the time, I see trains almost daily, especially AMTRAK.
Do I care what those modern locos are? No. Do I know much about many of those modern freight cars or passenger cars, no, only the basics.
My railroad knowledge is centered around historical trains, 50 years ago, 75 years ago, 100 years ago - that is what interests me, that is what I model.
Boring is not the right word, but todays trains are just a passing interest, not something I need to see or need to know the details about.
BMMECNYCIf railroads are boring, youre not looking hard enough or in the right places.
And those are the same ones that says boxcars are no longer used and when they are presented with facts they revert back to "All I see is stack trains" or "I don't have time to railfan". Yet,they know today's railroads are boring with very little railfan experience.
Because ES44ACs look exactly like SD70ACus....hint they dont. I find that I have generally good railfan luck. I believe this is entirely due to the fact that if I see a train I will stay to see the whole thing go past. I keep my camera ready as the whole train goes by, you never know what you may find.
I have seen and photographed freight cars painted for Maine Central, Boston and Maine, Pan AM, Guilford, Norfolk Southern, Norfolk and Western, Southern Railway, ATSF, UP, KCS, BNSF, CSX, Chessie System (as recently as Christmas I found a Chessie snow plow and caboose during an Amtrak trip), Providence and Worcester, SOO Line, Canadian Pacific, Canandian National (also Canadien), Conrail, Reading Blue Mountain and Northern, as well as a plethora of X cars (private owned cars of all shapes and sizes).
Edit: All of these sightings have occured 2015-present.
I was fortunate enough to visit the railfan bridge a Selkirk Yard on a couple of occasions before CSX obliterated it to put a new bypass in around the yard (admitedly it was falling apart). I was able to find locomotives from all class 1 railroads in one place at one time, plus some Pan Am units laying over and a cab end switcher (some sort of EMD SW product, it was pretty far away and painted for a private owner).
At Washinton Union Station I was treated to what I suspect is the oldest surviving SW-1 still in service (they started it up while I was on the platform taking a "smoke break" while Amtrak swapped power on the Silver Star or Meteor, dont remember which), painted for Amtrak, originally a NYC locmotive.
If railroads are boring, youre not looking hard enough or in the right places.
If I had to guess, the reason you are not seeing local frieghts is because the run them at night (P&W-Borg does that in south eastern CT).
I forgot to mention Borg units, more commonly known as Genessee and Wyoming. Ive managed to catch Indiana Southern Railroad units 3 or 4 times on trips back to Indiana, either waiting on crew or hauling coal or grain of some sort.
Also Connecticut Southern RR/New England Central (they even had a caboose, up in White River Junction, VT).
INRD SD9043MACs are also pretty cool and unique. There are not a whole lot of these out there, so if you see one, take a photo.
Most of the SD90H production has been scrapped due to their unreliability, or rebuilt into SD70ACus(NS)
I agree freight trains are extremely boring and passenger trains aren't much better! I recently went to the Old Vicksburg Bridge and I got to go out about halfway across the bridge to the MS/LA borderline while a UP train was coming across (that's a whole other thread <check under my Prototype Information About Old Vicksburg Bridge and Thebes Bridge thread>) and the train was mostly made up of double stack or single stack intermodal containers, trailers piggybacking, and intermodal containers on piggyback cars; it was nice but more assortment would be nicer.
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
I loved the 60s best. I really miss cabooses. Secondly, open autoracks allowed one to see the newest automobiles being shipped. No, you couldn't see every detail, but it was neat to be able to say, "look at those new Mustangs", for example. And there was a huge variety of trailer styles on piggybacks, though many required some knowledge of truck trailers to discern.
There were dozens of Class 1's...not just 7, and most boxcars represented railroads well. You could tell which railroad owned a boxcar in a train, even before it got close enough for you to see the reporting marks because of it's colors and large logo and/or motto, expression or phrase.
Sure, the railroads were in decline, and that's why my track does not look well maintained, and most everything "older than 10 years" is weathered quite a bit.
Mike
Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.
Daniel G.
ATSFGuy What about this, let's say I model 1948-1973, possibly 1975. Then I model 1993-2004, maybe go to 2005 or 2010. I've split my modeling eras into two parts. The past and present. One evolves, one doesn't. Hopefully this makes more sense
What about this, let's say I model 1948-1973, possibly 1975. Then I model 1993-2004, maybe go to 2005 or 2010.
I've split my modeling eras into two parts. The past and present. One evolves, one doesn't.
Hopefully this makes more sense
First, everyone should model whatever/however they like, or just buy/collect and run trains - BUT, if you are modeling 1948-1973, then you are effectively modeling 1973.
Any historically correct depection of anything includes the things that came before that are still in use, but does not include the things that came after.......
In 1973 lots of things from 1948 were still around, and lots of things from 1948 were long gone, so for me, that approach does not work........
Dave, You're funny!!
I live in an area that sees freight drags and local service by CSX, and by NS not too far away.....in addition to the wide-cab double-stack container unit train stuff. Its interesting.
- Douglas
ACYChanges occurred daily and often unexpectedly from the beginning to the end of the transition period, whenever you decide it began and ended. Nothing was static. Tom
That holds true with today's railroads..A local could use a caboose for long reverse moves while others use a "noisy" caboose-that's a engine on both ends for long reverse moves.
ATSFGuy The Transition era (steam-diesel) changes a little bit but not that much unless you model all fifties without a cutoff date. It varies since every modeler is different. if you model the 1970's, 1980's, or 1990's, remember that cabooses started to fade away after 1986.
The Transition era (steam-diesel) changes a little bit but not that much unless you model all fifties without a cutoff date.
It varies since every modeler is different.
if you model the 1970's, 1980's, or 1990's, remember that cabooses started to fade away after 1986.
First, I guess we ought to agree on a definition of transition era. Most folks tend to think it's from a couple years before WWII to the end of steam. Some would say it started at the end of WWII. Depending on your prototype, that's about a 10-20 year period.
No matter how you define it, the suggestion that the transition era was even remotely like a static situation is absolute poppycock. During the 1930's, a lot of railroads made very few new purchases, but almost every railroad retired old, inefficient cars and locos or put them in storage. In a desperate attempt to gain efficiency, the NKP sold a bunch of older locos to raise money to buy a smaller number of brand new, more powerful and efficient Berkshires. Diesels began to make their appearances during this time, mostly in yard service. Some passenger and freight diesels came on the scene with a lot of fanfare, but steam was in charge overall.
Once the war got under way, the roads scrambled to get every available piece of equipment in service. Cars and locos were converted. New cars and locos were built. Some roads (like N&W) sold surplus locos to unlikely new owners. New cars were built, including war emergency designs that saved steel by using a lot of wood.
After the war, much of this equipment was completely worn out and needed complete replacement. New cars were almost all steel, and wooden components on the war emergency cars were often replaced with steel. Typical new-built boxcars were based on the 1937 AAR design from about 1937 until a couple years after the war. but the PS-1 was introduced in 1947 and that design went into serious large-scale production beginning about 1950-51. Diesel prime movers had been in short supply during the war because of military requirements, but peace meant the ability to retire steam in favor of diesels, and the railroads bought diesels like a golddigger in a jewelry shop. Long lines of retired steam engines began to grow in railroad yards all over the country, waiting for the best scrap prices. Long funeral trains of steam locos and/or old outdated cars were sometimes seen.
On the passenger front, every large railroad invested heavily in new passenger equipment to replace the equipment that had been run to death during the war.
During the 1950's, the numbers of covered hoppers increased dramatically. They had been a tiny fraction of the freight car fleet previously. In 1950, USRA hoppers were a common sight. By 1960 they were pretty rare, and by 1965 they were gone for all practical purposes. Cars with wood sides were very common in the 1940's, but they became increasingly rare. By about 1970, they were a very rare sight. Production of offset hoppers was seriously reduced by the late 1950's because of a tendency to rust at critical points. I think the last traditiobnal offset hoppers were built around 1964, and many roads started retiring them after that.
Changes occurred daily and often unexpectedly from the beginning to the end of the transition period, whenever you decide it began and ended. Nothing was static.
Tom
The transistion era only "changes a little bit" from what? WWII, not really, hardly any diesels during WWII. Not much piggyback before 1950, I would call those a big changes.....
Again, if you are modeling a fixed year, than there is no "change", only that "present" and the past that lead up to it.
You can only depict "change" if you model more than one era, or if you imbrace a "window" of time - 1980 to 1990. Not an approach I have any interest in for any era of modeling.
Again, on my layout it is September 1954, we don't know what is going to happen in the future, we only know that our F7's are only a few years old and that two new SD9's just showed up from LaGrange, and we are still using steam and have decided like the N&W to keep it in reasonable repair for now - next year the bosses might feel differently - but like the movie "Ground Hog Day", next year never comes......
On my railroad, 1990 is the cutoff year for cabooses. After 1990, the EOT is introduced and becomes the norm.
Larry, that makes no sense? Those steam locos were lined up in the dead line because they had been replaced by brand new shinny diesels. We had lines of them here in Baltimore too, some still sitting around in the late 60's
And once again - dirty is different from rusty and broken - up close railroading has always been a dirty business - so is trucking, or ships........
I never disagreed with dirty...........EXCEPT, the Western Maryland and the N&W kept their locos nearly spotless.
The N&W had massive indoor shops were the steam locos, and later the diesels too, were serviced and steam cleaned all along various point on the line. It was part of their program to keep steam longer than other roads did, and to some degree it worked.
Everyone in this discussion seems to miss the point that selecting and modeling a set era means just that, a fixed snapshot in time, with no regard for what will happen next - because it is the future.
If you model 1954, you should model it honestly, but with the same optimism with which the railroads built thousands of piggyback flats, bought new diesels (even from ALCO), or the same optimism with which the ATSF and C&O ordered new passenger cars and the B&O bought a large fleet of RDC's.
If you model a different era, adjust you findings as needed........
But even the depression was not as "depressed" as some have chosen to model it.
At any moment in time, there will always be new things, and old things in the world. There will always be people who choose hope, and those who wallow in dispare. There will always be those who restore an old house, and those who drive a bull dozer through one - we all see the world from a different point of view.
Even looking at eras in railroad history I don't care for, there is good to be seen and modeled.
My father worked for CAROLINA FREIGHT in the 70's. They had a fleet of 1950's Mack B models they still used for local delivery. They had a continious program of total restoration - not one of those 20 year old trucks ever looked more than 5 years old. I personally watched the restoration of several of them in their Baltimore shop.
See the world however you like, I choose to see the better version......
ATLANTIC CENTRALThey just need not tell me "what the 50's was like" because clearly they have not studied railroad history in any detail.
Or maybe they have and did a lot of railfaning in the 50s? I recall the decaying 50s when everything was filthy and to top that there was rows of dead steam engines covered in pigeon poo.
Study of those perfect 50 era photos in books doesn't tell the real gritty story that railfans of that era avoid taking photos of..
Ever wonder why I never had the desire to model the 50s era even though I toyed with the idea? The 60s told the story of dying railroads that was operating under Chapter 13 just to stay afloat.
You can be sure I have no desire to model todays railroads either.
A few more thoughts, covered much earler, but just to be clear.
Railroading is generally a dirty business, the 50's was no different.
But there is a big difference between dirt vs rust and decay.
The late 40's and the early 50's was a time of rebuilding, replacing, repainting, repurposing (like 1930's boxcar underframes rebuilt into piggyback flat cars) and upgrading after the war time years of neglect.
So sure, there were still 1930's box cars and hoppers in not so great condition, but they were replaced or rebuilt as quickly as possible starting right away after the war.
By the early 50's, dispite a few bumps in the economy, the railroads were flush with cash, buying new diesels, building new bigger boxcars, offering flashing express services, investing in piggyback, repainting and rebuilding, etc.
True, by 1958, or 1963, not all of those investments had paid off as well as hoped.........but if you model 1954, that hope still exists....and that paint is still shinny........
And for those of you who model the PRR, or who observed the PRR in that time - other railroads did actually clean stuff..........
BigDaddy My era is better than your era; na na. It had to come to this. Didn't anyone else look at the title of this thread as being in the same category as: DC is Dead, DCC is Dead, Bluerail will replace everything, Model railroading is too expensive? These types of threads gather the most coments of any; but to me it is not a discussion around the campfire with adult beverages. It is more like the discusion before the bar fight. These are the Drive-by threads, to paraphrase a popular radio commentator, designed to get people worked up over nothing. If railroading was boring and uninspiring, why would any of us be here? We would be out having a good time with shuffleboard.
My era is better than your era; na na. It had to come to this.
Didn't anyone else look at the title of this thread as being in the same category as: DC is Dead, DCC is Dead, Bluerail will replace everything, Model railroading is too expensive?
These types of threads gather the most coments of any; but to me it is not a discussion around the campfire with adult beverages. It is more like the discusion before the bar fight. These are the Drive-by threads, to paraphrase a popular radio commentator, designed to get people worked up over nothing.
If railroading was boring and uninspiring, why would any of us be here? We would be out having a good time with shuffleboard.
Henry, it is not about one era being better or more interesting than the next, but it is about others misrepresenting facts.
Fact - In 1954 an F3 was not an old decrepit locomotive - the oldest F3 at that time was 9 years old, an the oldest F7 or GP7 was only 5 years old, as noted above a SD9 was brand new.
Now, if you are modeling 1973, an F7 is an old, about to be replaced, worn out 24 year old junker........
And I don't drink "adult beverages", or hang out with those who do, because for the most part they lead to people not behaving like adults.......
PS - and if others want to model some other era, or no era at all, or loosely collect and run trains from 1970 to 1990, that's fine with me.
They just need not tell me "what the 50's was like" because clearly they have not studied railroad history in any detail.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
ATSFGuy To put it another way, 50's/60's are stagnant while 70's/80's/90's are more dynamic, shedding at the older end while it adds at the upper end. Example; ATSF drops SD45-2's and adds more SD75M's. Then SD75M's are retired and BNSF brings in C44-9W's and AC4400CW's.
To put it another way, 50's/60's are stagnant while 70's/80's/90's are more dynamic, shedding at the older end while it adds at the upper end.
Example; ATSF drops SD45-2's and adds more SD75M's. Then SD75M's are retired and BNSF brings in C44-9W's and AC4400CW's.
?????? What does this mean?
If you truely model a specific year, with a specific cutoff date, all modeling is stagnant. It is a fixed moment in time.
You don't have or represent anything after your cut off, it did not exist yet. The fact that it is "going to exist" has no bearing on your modeling.
The 60's may have been a "stagnant" or declining period for the railroads, the 50's was not. That's why I haven no interest in the "trains of my youth" that so many say "we are supposed" to be interested in modeling. I grew up in the 60's and 70's.
If, for example, it is September 25, 1954 on your layout, than you can have anything that existed before that time, that logicaly would still be in use, but if your are strict about it, than you will have NOTHING that has not been build yet, even if it showed up on September 26, 1954 - that is a "stagnant" or fixed snapshot in time - so is July 10, 1986.....
The newest loco on my layout is an SD9 - EMD produced the first ones in January 1954........
As for what was going in in railroading in the 50's, all thru the 50's the railroads were investing in massive conversions of flat cars into piggyback service, roller bearing trucks were being introduced widespread, nearly all the diesels were new, and EMD and ALCO could not build them fast enough, that's the only thing that really kept steam around as long as it did.
Some roads made last ditch efforts with new passenger equipment while others looked to eliminate passenger service while still others looked to re-invent passenger service with RDC's, the AeroTrain, etc.
Cushion underframes were introduced, plug doors introduced, mechanical reefers introduced, long flat cars introduced, container transport introduced/expanded, colorful paint schemes at least for diesel locos, piggyback vans, reefers and box cars in priority package services.
The railroads were rebuilding after nearly a decade of defered maintenence during the war, a war we entered at the end of a depression.
The 50's stagnant, I think not, now the "dip black" late 60's and 70's, that is boring.........and depressing.
To put it another way, 50's/60's are usually stagnant while 70's/80's/90's are more dynamic, shedding at the older end while it adds at the upper end.
Example; ATSF drops SD45-2's and adds more SD75M's. Then SD75M's are retired and BNSF brings in C44-9W's and AC4400CW's. ES44AC's are next in line.