Part of what drew me to model trains as a kid was the sight of a real train. There was so much more variety then, in terms of the types of cars, the shapes, the colors, the names of the many railroads, their slogans in large brush script across the box cars, the bulldog F-unit locomotives, and the caboose at the end of the train.
When I see a freight train now - on the rare occasion that one actually lumbers by - I see a locomotive pulling a string of colorless, blank shipping containers, all of identical size and shape.
It makes me wonder if kids are actually inspired by trains anymore, and if they are, if it is primarily through an existing layout in their grandparents' basement as opposed to the real objects.
Thoughts?
The trackside experience is revelatory. The few minutes it takes to sit by a crossing, hear the signal bells and horn, feel the world-coming-to-an-end rumble, man. It's fun to watch their eyes go wide.
Stu
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
Shock Control Part of what drew me to model trains as a kid was the sight of a real train. There was so much more variety then, in terms of the types of cars, the shapes, the colors, the names of the many railroads, their slogans in large brush script across the box cars, the bulldog F-unit locomotives, and the caboose at the end of the train. When I see a freight train now - on the rare occasion that one actually lumbers by - I see a locomotive pulling a string of colorless, blank shipping containers, all of identical size and shape. It makes me wonder if kids are actually inspired by trains anymore, and if they are, if it is primarily through an existing layout in their grandparents' basement as opposed to the real objects. Thoughts?
Rich
Alton Junction
Shock ControlIt makes me wonder if kids are actually inspired by trains anymore, and if they are, if it is primarily through an existing layout in their grandparents' basement as opposed to the real objects.
First allow me ask you do you railfan or just see a occasional intermodal train? Spend some time on you tube watching railroad videos or better still go railfaning and see the big picture.
If you lived in this area you would find freight trains is as exciting as ever since you see boxcars,flats,bulkheads,gons,covered hoppers, tank cars just like the old days. Unlike the old days you never know what motive power will show up in the locomotive consist.
The younger modelers have a better grip on today's railroads then most believe and in all truth far more knowledgeable..
BTW.The same was said when I was a teen in the 60s.. Does today's boring look alike diesel locomotives interest kids like steam locomotives?
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE Shock Control It makes me wonder if kids are actually inspired by trains anymore, and if they are, if it is primarily through an existing layout in their grandparents' basement as opposed to the real objects. First allow me ask you do you railfan or just see a occasional intermodal train? Spend some time on you tube watching railroad videos or better still go railfaning and see the big picture. If you lived in this area you would find freight trains is as exciting as ever since you see boxcars,flats,bulkheads,gons,covered hoppers, tank cars just like the old days. Unlike the old days you never know what motive power will show up in the locomotive consist. The younger modelers have a better grip on today's railroads then most believe and in all truth far more knowledgeable.. BTW.The same was said when I was a teen in the 60s.. Does today's boring look alike diesel locomotives interest kids like steam locomotives?
Shock Control It makes me wonder if kids are actually inspired by trains anymore, and if they are, if it is primarily through an existing layout in their grandparents' basement as opposed to the real objects.
I don't have time to be a railfan. Perhaps it is simply the geographical regions where I've lived in recent decades, but I can promise you, all I see is engines and shipping containers. And while my love for trains may be clouded by elements of nostalgia, the amount of variety on a train is an empirical fact and not an opinion. A string of identical shipping containers with no discernable markings on them inherently has less variety than a train with box cars, tankers, flat cars with various loads, hoppers, gondolas, reefers, etc. It is good to know that there is more variety on the freight trains where you live.
I am not a railfan, but have watched trains for a lot of years!
What I see now I don't like, endless strings of look alike tank cars, gray covered hoppers that all look alike with tons of graffiti, rusty boxcars that are ready for the scrap heap, and intermodal cars with look alike containers.
Even when the railroads were going bankrupt in the 70's there were various colors on the boxcars that were well kept up compared to today, as well as more railroad companies. Same with Covered Hoppers etc. The railroads took pride in the look of their equipment, now it is the almighty dollar that counts and not the image.
Rick Jesionowski
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
50 years ago, you might have seen a greater variety in cars than today, but less variety in locomotives. For example, in the last couple of years I've seen quite a few unit tank trains. 50 black tank cars with minimal lettering isn't that exciting. However, years ago, you would only see the engines of that railroad pulling trains. Now, due to run through agreements, I get to see tank trains with Norfolk Southern (including many of the retro paint schemes like NYC, Reading, etc.) and Kansas City Southern, even FCM (I think that's what it's called now, used to be Nacional de Mexico?)...despite the fact that those railroads nearest connection is hundreds of miles away from where I'm at.
I like looking at intermodal trains. Each container is like looking at one individual freight car.
Are you sure it wasn't trash train. A long flat car with 4 small containers. Colors may very by company.
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
wjstix 50 years ago, you might have seen a greater variety in cars than today, but less variety in locomotives. For example, in the last couple of years I've seen quite a few unit tank trains. 50 black tank cars with minimal lettering isn't that exciting. However, years ago, you would only see the engines of that railroad pulling trains. Now, due to run through agreements, I get to see tank trains with Norfolk Southern (including many of the retro paint schemes like NYC, Reading, etc.) and Kansas City Southern, even FCM (I think that's what it's called now, used to be Nacional de Mexico?)...despite the fact that those railroads nearest connection is hundreds of miles away from where I'm at.
I saw plenty of different engines right in my back yard, NKP, Wabash, C&O, D&TSL, B&O, PC, N&W, TT and WM. This is all in one week, every week, not just once in awhile. If I went a little further you could add EL and DT&I along with visiting engines of the SP, Southern and others.
Now most of what I see is NS and filthy CSX engines, with an occaisonal UP and BNSF.
I like variety, and I agree there's not a lot of variety to be seen in modern freight trains. I have modern railfan friends who find a lot of interest there. They know more about the modern engines, cars, and operations than I do. I can't fault them for finding their satisfaction in areas that don't excite me.
I prefer the transition era in Ohio because there are many reasons for variety:
1. Lots of different railroads as well as private owners are represented in the interchange car fleet. This means a big variety in liveries.
2. The change from composite to all-steel cars was still not complete, and there were more carbuilders represented, including railroad shops. There were a lot of approaches to problem solving, and there was no "typical" freight car.
3. Trucking was having an impact on the railroad industry, but it had not taken over to the extent it has today. Railroads still offered LCL and served small industries that are mostly truck-served today.
4. There were more work trains and more interesting flanged-wheel work equipment. Hulcher doesn't excite me.
5. Diesel motive power was more interesting. There were diesels from 5 major builders: EMD, Alco, Baldwin, F-M, Lima Hamilton, plus industrial engines from GE, Plymouth, and others. They ranged from switchers through A and B cab units, B-B hood units, to C-C hoods.
6. Steam motive power was still in operation, which meant lots of variety in designs and functions, even within the roster of a single railroad.
7. My chosen geographical area, Ohio, boasted a concentration of railroads that compares pretty favorably with most other areas. East-West mainlines of the NYC, NKP, B&O, PRR, Erie, N&W, and C&O ran through. Important regionals such as B&LE, DT&I, and AC&Y were prosperous contributors to the mix. There was a lot of interchange work.
8. I know this conversation relates to freight operations, but I must add the difference in passenger operations. I consider the transition era to be more interesting in that respect. I say this as an Amtrak retiree who always had to keep his job duties separate from his hobby interests. Passenger diesels came in a variety that nearly matched the freight diesels, from the same builders, and the colors and variety of passenger cars and operations can't be beat.
But that's just my opinion. Proponents of the modern scene may wax eloquent on their favorites, and that is their right.
Tom
Until recently, I lived near active Norfolk Southern tracks. I have to agree with those in the boring camp. Many of the trains were nothing but coal hoppers headed to power plants.
The only thing that changed was the graffiti, something I absolutely detest. Even the other freights provided little in the way iof nteresting variety, other than the ever present graffiti.
CG
For those that model the 50/60s you need to dirty your layout..Railroads was filthy,ran down and in overall deplorable condition.Passenger train was filthy,late and apt to have a break down enroute. There was few exception but,the heyday was over and Government bailouts was the norm.
As a youthful and naive modeler I got a shocking surprise once I became a student brakeman I learn the cold facts breakdowns,bad track, poor equipment was the norm---just like my railroading family said.
I don't know about rusty boxcars because I haven't seen any and I railfan daily even if its from my man cave window that faces the NS Sandusky mainline. My man cave is the former master bedroom that is now filled with my video gaming table with 32" LED TV,switching layout,work desk and computer desk. I spent most of the morning reading MR,Trains Magazine,Railfan and watching NS trains.
angelob6660 I like looking at intermodal trains. Each container is like looking at one individual freight car. Are you sure it wasn't trash train. A long flat car with 4 small containers. Colors may very by company.
Last year I "camped out" next to BNSF tracks on the Columbia River for a few days. I photographed every car in every train I saw.
I assure you, neither the cars nor the containers were all the same. And each train was different than the others. For a start, there were the "JBHunt" trains, which had a whole lot of, yup, JB Hunt containers (in at least three versions). And fewer of the three different kinds of orange Schneider. And those were just the biggies. There were also a small assortment of reefers. And the occasional 20' tank container. And then there were the trailers. LOTS of different trailers. The cars tended to be 3 unit 53' well cars plus 53' and 57' spine sets. But there were other cars, too. An assortment of 53' singles, plus, as I recall, a 5 unit 40' well car (with 53' boxes on the top of the first, third, and fifth well).
And then there's the "international" container trains. Those are carrying 20', 40', and 45' boxes. Typically on 5 unit 40' well cars. But, again, not always. The 53' wells show up. And there's even an occasional 56'. And the paint schemes on those containers varies with each train. There'll be an "Evergreen" train, or a "Hyundai/Hanjin" train, for example. And those trains also carry a vast mix of other leased and other lines' boxes.
The container trains of today remind me a lot of the "typical" freight train of the forties: a lot of boxcars, mostly 40', from various lines. Many of the schemes repeat. Many don't. There's an occasional tank car (see 20' tank container mentioned above), or a reefer (also, see above). Haven't seen any 40' stock containers. Yet. Also, there are flat and bulkhead containers, but I don't recall seeing any last year.
I sorta agree about the coal trains. Except that when I examine my photos of those I shot at that one location, there are at least 5 different kinds of cars and there are at least 5 different BN/BNSF paint schemes and a whole slew of leased cars.
Oh, yeah. There was a garbage train every day. I admit I DID NOT photograph every car in every one of those trains. They are likely the most repetive trains, plus I just will not ever model a garbage train. Ever.
There WERE a few "old style" trains with mixed cars. Pretty darn interesting, I do say.
Ed
BRAKIE For those that model the 50/60s you need to dirty your layout..Railroads was filthy,ran down and in overall deplorable condition.Passenger train was filthy,late and apt to have a break down enroute. There was few exception but,the heyday was over and Government bailouts was the norm.
When I rode my second cross-country passenger train in 1964 (first was 1950 on the Super Chief), it was from Washington through Chicago, Portland to Berkeley CA. On the run to Chicago (on the B&O), it certainly looked like what Brakie describes.
But I also recall crossing on the GN line, where every station I saw looked freshly painted and weed free. Many had flowers in window boxes (September).
The GN certainly would have been one of those exceptions.
A year ago I stayed the night at an Amtrak station in downtown Austin, TX and slept out there all night. 2 homeless people were sleeping there also. I was planning to catch the morning train to back east. The tracks were 50 to 75 feet away. Every hour a BNSF freight train went by with all kinds of cars with it. The noises that came with the trains were more intriguing than the cars themselves. Wish I had a recorder with me. The wheels squeeling, the reefers reefing, the engines, and other strange noises. The Amtrak cars are not clean either inside or out. I take an Amtrak at least once a year to visit Sister.
I have to agree that watching a train now isn't as exciting as it was in the 1950s and '60s. The lack of railroad names, colors, car types and all just isn't as inspiring. I remember the steam to diesel transition and I always thought the diesels were pretty exciting too.
I lived for 35 years in Scum City (Houston) and when I first got there in 1978 a couple RRs were semi friendly but a few were downright hostile. It only got worse to the point where watching and taking pictures on public streets generally brought a rude, fat, hostile RR Cop waving a pistol in your face. Thank God HPD seemed to understand and could control these jerks. After several of those experiences and the lack of neat RRs sucked up by the Horrible Yellow Horde it just wasn't worth going out any longer. I fully understand theft, trespassing, etc but viewing from a public acess point should never have brought those actions from a RRcop.
My grandsons are of the Thomas age and love seeing model trains, train shows and even the new locomotives but I watch them lose interest as the long stacks of containers start passing by. They just aren't as exciting.
Some people like all the vulgar graffitti on the cars and locomotives but I don't see that as "art" and see it as a very negative thing and I don't waste my time looking at it.
Watching the A&M in my new area is another thing all together. While UP stack trains seem to bore them, they get very excited with the A&M and the noisy Alcos and passenger trains.
Things change and that's why we all live in the past through our model trains and slide collections.
My 2¢,
Roger Huber
oldline1 I lived for 35 years in Scum City (Houston) and when I first got there in 1978 a couple RRs were semi friendly but a few were downright hostile.
I lived for 35 years in Scum City (Houston) and when I first got there in 1978 a couple RRs were semi friendly but a few were downright hostile.
Did one of the latter start with an "S"? And end with a "P"?
I live near the CSX. Lots of trains, but little variety. Most are solid trains of containers. Next in number would be coal, auto racks, covered hoppers. Only occasionaly will a classic freight come by with a mix of cars. Most locomotives are blue and yellow CSX. Once in a great while there will be a UP or BNSF in the mix.
When we get over to South Carolina on the NS, there seems to be more variety in the individual trains. So it may be a regional thing.
jim
Ed,
Yep, the very hostile ones were indeed that one and the one that started with an "M" and ended with a "T" and had a "K" in the middle somewhere.
The Mop, AT&SF and HB&T were fairly friendly to folks with cameas as long as you didn't act stupid.
It does sort of depend on the area you're in. Up here in Palmer, MA, I see stack trains, mixed freight, auto racks, and tank trains all equally. But other places may see almost all coal, or stack, or other. There are usually 1 or 2 gems hidden in a mixed freight, such as ex-Milwaukee cars for salt, or an array of patched lease boxcars.
In al fairness, Im sure there are those in the 40s and 50s who didn't find long trains of brown 40' boxcars exciting either.
Modeling whatever I can make out of that stash of kits that takes up half my apartment's spare bedroom.
Bundy74 In al fairness, Im sure there are those in the 40s and 50s who didn't find long trains of brown 40' boxcars exciting either.
Lemme see. A continuous parade of brown square things with slightly different lettering on some but not all? Led by an always black thing?
Nah!!!!!
Who is actually pretty fond of such things.
Bundy74In al fairness, Im sure there are those in the 40s and 50s who didn't find long trains of brown 40' boxcars exciting either.
I think growing up in that era started my love for boxcars and the icing on the cake was the colorful IPD short line boxcar era. Now I still see lots of boxcars and been noticing the freight leasing companies has started to branch out into the boxcar market so,now besides Railbox we are begining to see boxcars from other leasing companies.
BRAKIE Bundy74 In al fairness, Im sure there are those in the 40s and 50s who didn't find long trains of brown 40' boxcars exciting either. I think growing up in that era started my love for boxcars and the icing on the cake was the colorful IPD short line boxcar era. Now I still see lots of boxcars and been noticing the freight leasing companies has started to branch out into the boxcar market so,now besides Railbox we are begining to see boxcars from other leasing companies.
I would add to Larry's comments. While most boxcars of the classic era were some variant of red or brown, there were a few exceptions in green, black, and a very few more colorful ones. The great variety came in the ages and construction of cars, ranging from short to tall, short to long, and wood to composite to steel in many variations. The second source of interest was the many railroads that we now consider fallen flags, with their distinctive logos.
I would love to see a train.. Nearest ones are 80 miles away and then there are only a couple of acid tank trains a week, one or 2 bauxite trains and the daily passenger train... We used to have a daily wood chip train here but they closed the line about 7 years ago and now another dead line in this state...
More than half the railroads in this state are closed or even completely ripped up...
The ones that are left of the state government railway only see grain trains and a couple of short lines have acid/bauxite and the other line is iron ore...
The national line(standard guage) has iron ore and containers plus a weekly passenger train inter state and a daily rural train...
It becomes a lot of long distance driving if you want train spot..
So back to my model trains and freelancing(theres way more action on the layout and the yard is still the start and the end of the line)..
As some one said, "its the mighty dollar", that comes first...
This is one of the more interesting posts I have read in a while. There are many different and interesting opinions on then vs today. I grew up in MI and always thought a GTW GP-38 was boring. However when I went to the neighboring city on the Chessie, I never knew if I was going to see a B&O, C&O, or Chessie power. Today I miss all of them.
Today i live in OKC, and while I agree that some unit trains are boring they have aspects that are very interesting. Nothing worse than a BNSF covered hopper unit train, they don't even have graffiti on them! Those are so boring. However as someone mentioned the intermodal trains can get interesting with the different trailers. While all the power is big six axle, you never know what road name might come through on the front or end of a train. Once in a while you will see a manifest come through town and it is fun to see if paint is fading and the previous road name show through. I have seen a Great Northern box car and an EL gondola in the last few years.
I am also lucky enough to work near the end of a branch line that has an auto receiving customer. They have their own GP-7, it is black and I can't determine the original owner. So in the city I get to see a littlet bit of everything.
* I do miss the ATSF SD45-2 that used to come through as recent as 8 years ago.
For those that would like to see the older EMD switchers and Geeps railfan short lines and for the most part boxcars ladings are their bread and butter.
Its great to see a old GP9 pulling 6 or more boxcars..Some shorties still use a Alco end cab switcher as well..
As a kid growing up in southern Ontario, I railfanned (unaware of that term at the time) locally, pretty-well wherever I could walk or bike, or, from the back seat of Dad's car when we got "stuck" at a crossing. Watching the plethora of roadnames rolling by was like looking at a map of North America (my hometown of Hamilton, Ontario was probably the most industrialised city in Canada) with rail cars from all over the continent, and four railroads serving the city. It mattered not that the cars were pretty-much all the same colours - boxcar red or black - because the cars themselves were so varied, even among ones of the same type....single sheathed, double sheathed, steel...low cars and high, short and long, clean or dirty, and new or almost at the end of their service life. I saw the end of steam and the takeover by diesels, so yes, the trains of today can be boring by comparison.While I still do a little railfanning locally, a lot of the industry has left...mostly gone south or east, so train frequency isn't what it had been.The majority of my railfanning nowadays is done when visiting friends in Ohio and Pennsylvania, and while it's definitely not like the old days, it definitely is interesting. Both friends have railroading backgrounds, with knowledge of places the average fan wouldn't be aware, and access to many sites where railfans wouldn't necessarily be welcomed.I see lots of intermodal trains (containers and trailers), Roadrailers, autoracks, coal trains, mixed trains, tank trains, and diesels from all of the major North American railroads. I've seen trains on headways so short that the locos of the second train can be photographed in the same frame as the last cars of the one ahead of it. I've been in scenic locales where waiting for the train is an enjoyable diversion, and when the trains are few and far between, the conversations can be as interesting as if a steam engine were passing by our cameras.I've watched rail-grinding trains (both working and in-transit), seen high & wide special moves, business trains, and employee specials, and most of the NS Heritage units. I've ridden in modern high-horsepower diesel locomotives and in a 1943-built Alco, too.
I'm not yet approaching boredom.
Wayne
While we are discussing old 40' boxcars I would like to mention two of my all time favorites.
The West India Fruit & Steamship Company 40' boxcar with a car ferry logo with Florida to Havana Railroad Car Ferries on the side of the ship. From the little research I did these boxcars hauled Cuban cigars and rum. WFI also owned reefers for hauling fruit.
My second all time favorite 40' boxcar was GN's Jade Geen,black ends with Rocky(GN's goat) standing next to the slanted Great Northern.
I just realized nobody has mentioned an important difference between the trains of today and those of yore. Cabooses! Or vans, or waycars, or cabins, or what-have-you.
If a FRED is the period that ends a modern train's sentence, then a caboose was more of an exclamation point in years past. Even if you missed seeing the engine, you knew the owning road by the livery and distinctive architecture of the caboose, accompanied by the flagman's friendly wave.
That friendly wave is a reminder that railroads were, by and large, more welcoming to railfans in the past. I have a harder time warming up to people, or institutions, that are unfriendly to me.
Shock ControlIt makes me wonder if kids are actually inspired by trains anymore, and if they are, if it is primarily through an existing layout in their grandparents' basement as opposed to the real objects. Thoughts?
Since young folk today have no point of reference to compare modern trains to old trains of 25 or 50 years ago, then how or why would they feel board by what they see? Does that make sense? They would be seeing trains as you did when you were young, and either be drawn to them or not. Some kids are naturally drawn to trains and some, probably most, don't see them as anything special.
I might agree with you otherwise, but I have been watching trains since I was a kid in the 1960's but mostly began to take notice of them when I moved to California and lived along the SP lines in northern California.
As for today, to some degree, my feelings are like Liz Allen, "it's all crap now". Trains these days do not look like they did back in the 70's and 80's, they are all patched and often have graffiti and things have changed a lot. However, there is a certain amount of drama so even these days I still like to watch trains go by.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983