rrebellLike I said before, you can build real lightwheight benchwork,
Hi rrebell,
I hear ya. I absolutely need to move towards something positive with my model railroading and everyone's suggestions about starting my own layout are very encouraging.
Thanks.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Like I said before, you can build real lightwheight benchwork, just finished mine (minus a few extras I need to add once yard design is compleat which is an extention of the main layout).
Rio Grande and Mike,
Building a layout is something I am considering. I have been playing with designs trying to come up with a way that involves a minimum of heavy lifting. Even that shouldn't be a problem because I can recruit my son to do the heavy work. He is only 1/2 hr. away.
Tinplate Toddler While Freemo modules may be too big to be handled on a desk, N scale T-Track modules aren´t, nor are my own design of mini-modules I built a few years ago. Building these modules is very rewarding, a simple task, involving very little money, but lots of fun! Just for reference, here is what I did back then (and might be continuing to do)!
That is interesting work Ulrich, and your workmanship is excellent as always too. It is certainly something I will consider, although N scale doesn't interest me a whole lot.
Thanks,
Dave,
I feel for you here, and do agree that anything you can do at home would be beneficial. In light of any difficulties contructing benchwork, perhaps a simpler approach is in order. Tony Koester's recent article using the plastic top folding leg tables as a base is in line with what I'm thinking of. Pick up one of those and put a 4x8 sheet of OSB, plywood, or 2" thick foam on top and start creating. Simple, cheap, and the height would be right for working off a chair or stool. Model railroading is great therapy. I for one had a layout for a number of years in my teens that was nothing more than a sheet of 1/2" OSB laid on top of three sawhorses. No box framing, L-girders, nothing. Never had an issue with it. Benchwork doesn't always have to be furniture grade. Heck, my first layouts as a kid were nothing more than sheets of 1/2" OSB laid on top of either 4 or 6 upside milk crates (can't remember which). Stood exactly one milk crate height off the floor. Talk about weak benchwork, but for an 8 year old kid, it was perfect. Again, no support related issues there either. My issues then were related to either train set quality stuff, or sabotage by my older brother!
Mike
Dave - as rewarding bird watching is, it´s something limited to the months with more pleasant weather. Once a model railroader, always a model railroader, you just cannot get that virus out of your system. You and I share a back issue. I cannot stand up more than a few minutes before my back starts to scream painful insults at me. Building a layout is nearly impossible, unless you take a different approach, like being able to sit down while building, say, modules for a layout. While Freemo modules may be too big to be handled on a desk, N scale T-Track modules aren´t, nor are my own design of mini-modules I built a few years ago. Building these modules is very rewarding, a simple task, involving very little money, but lots of fun!
Just for reference, here is what I did back then (and might be continuing to do)!
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
hon30critter One member who I deeply respect has been asking me questions about various things I was working on and I have been happy to help him out.
One member who I deeply respect has been asking me questions about various things I was working on and I have been happy to help him out.
Helping others can be a rewarding and even healing thing to do.
However, when I said that I was trying to convince myself that I was over the club experience, I was deceiving myself. Over the past few days I have spent a huge amount of money on train stuff. It has just dawned on me that I was trying to buy myself happiness, and by spending so much money I was trying to prove to myself that the negative club experience hasn't pushed me out of the hobby yet. Spending tons of money is a major indicator that you are still in a major depressive episode. As the saying goes, "you can't buy happiness...", but you can ruin yourself trying. I believe that I have stopped 'trying'.
Spending tons of money is a major indicator that you are still in a major depressive episode. As the saying goes, "you can't buy happiness...", but you can ruin yourself trying. I believe that I have stopped 'trying'.
It's true that traumtising events don't heal over night and can stick with you a long time.
As for spending, yes, it's an age old thing to try to fill a void or salve wounds. My former wifes mother lived a loveless marriage for the last 10 or so years of hear life. When she passed away, the house was literally filled with cloths she had bought, maybe half or more still had price tags on. She shopped to fill the emptiness.
Anyway, it's good you recognize what is going on because that helps you to take steps to protect yourself from further harm and to heal.
It might be helpful too, as suggested, to see if any helpful souls would help you with some layout benchwork contruction at home. It might be relaxing and enjoyable to work on your own layout, perhaps with some of your favorite music playing. I play music on Alexa while working on my layout.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Hi guys,
First, I want to say how much I appreciate your support. Then I want to give you a little more insight into how much damage depression can do. If you are not interested then tune out right now. For those that are, here is an honest update on where my mind is:
I have been telling myself that I am over the club experience. I haven't totally cut off my contact with the club. One member who I deeply respect has been asking me questions about various things I was working on and I have been happy to help him out.
However, when I said that I was trying to convince myself that I was over the club experience, I was deceiving myself. Over the past few days I have spent a huge amount of money on train stuff. It has just dawned on me that I was trying to buy myself happiness, and by spending so much money I was trying to prove to myself that the negative club experience hasn't pushed me out of the hobby yet.
Talking to you about this is really cathartic. You have no idea about how important your support has been to me. It is not over yet.
Thanks everyone for listening!
I live close to a creek now and we see all types of birds including turkey vultures.
rrinker It's rather pleasant sitting out on a nice evening listening to nature.
Dianne and I sit on our deck every day in the milder months and every time the weather permits when it isn't too cold. The deck has a clear fiberglass roof so it doesn't matter whether it is raining or snowing as long as the wind isn't really strong. Sometimes the best birding is right in our backyard.
Thanks everyone for making me think pleasant thoughts!
We get all sorts of birds here, but I haven't seen any Baltimore Orioles unless I'm watching a baseball game on TV. Everything from a pair of hawks that nest on top of the water tower next to my house to all sorts of hummingbirds. We put out several types of feeders to try and get the most variety.
There is a pair of ducks who have been pausing here every year I've lived here, probably because of the pool. They stick around for a week or so and then move on to a more permanent home for the Summer.
The lore says that cardinals are loved ones coming back to check on us - I'm very much a science oriented person, but it is too coincidental that from the day I moved in here, there was a solitary male cardinal hanging around. Never any females. My dad passed away in 1975. Then the first spring after my mom passed away, the male was joined by a female. Every year since this pair has always been here hanging out.
Plenty of squirrels, too - and they love to tease my dogs. Just the other day, the old dude saw one sitting about halfway across the yard. He took off (slow trot is best he can manage these days) and the squirrel just sat there looking at him, until he got a lot closer, only then did the squirrel take off for a tree. The two pugs can be quick over short distances, so the squirrels usually move right away, but they only go about 6 feet up the tree trunk and then face head down and chatter at the dogs, knowing they can't possibly reach up that high.
It's rather pleasant sitting out on a nice evening listening to nature. Sometimes it's easy to forget there are other houses all around, most of us have 3/4 acre lots here. Early evening is great - then the bats come out, the pool attracts insects for them to scoop up. Even better is being in the pool and watchign them swoop around overhead. Friend of mine designed a bat detector circuit which trnaslates the frequency down to human range, I have the schematic and the key component, I should build it.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks Ed,
We go bird watching all year round. In the winter it is mostly to look for snowy owls, but other things show up too. On Friday we spotted a pair of bald eagles. That was a big thrill! We rarely see them.
We started putting out oranges and grape jelly last year and managed to attract several Baltimore orioles. For a while they were eating a jar of jelly in less than a week.
We have booked three days in May at Point Pelee on Lake Erie to see the migrating birds. I couldn't get reservations until the middle of the month so I hope we aren't too late. A great deal of the birding success depends on which way the wind is blowing. North wind = few birds but a southerly wind brings them across the lake by the thousands.
BigDaddyLooks like a Bawlmer Oriole, I only saw 1 ever in Maryland.
They sure like to visit Ohio. Thank you!
The Baltimore oriole (Icterus galbula) is a small icterid blackbird common in eastern North America as a migratory breeding bird. It received its name from the resemblance of the male's colors to those on the coat-of-arms of Lord Baltimore.
That Lord Baltimore sure was a flashy dresser!
Cheers, Ed
Looks like a Bawlmer Oriole, I only saw 1 ever in Maryland.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Spring will be here soon, Dave, and you and Dianne can get out and enjoy some bird watching.
That has always been rewarding for me. Especially when you fill the feeders around the yard and the birds come around to thank you for it.
Oriole_feeding by Edmund, on Flickr
You can find the little pleasures in life. They are very rewarding.
Regards, Ed
ATLANTIC CENTRALJust as it is bad to not care about people, it is equally bad to have your self esteem too heavily invested in the opinions/reactions of others.
Sheldon,
Thanks. You make a very good point. I just wish it were that easy. That's the problem with depression. In some instances the disease won't let me ignore the criticism and confrontations. I can't just slough them off. I wish I could. The medications work but they have a limit, and when things go past that limit the feelings are overwhelming. There is no 'off' switch. Most people find that hard to understand because they haven't experienced it, and I don't recommend giving it a try.
Thanks for all the suggestions and support everyone. Having a layout built for me is an appealing possibility.
mbinsewi ............ I've been through similar situations, like your dominant club member, in the building trades. I've dealt with many self proclaimed foremans that "know it all, along with extra finishers brought in from the hall (the local union) that think they can take over the job. .......... Mike.
............
I've been through similar situations, like your dominant club member, in the building trades. I've dealt with many self proclaimed foremans that "know it all, along with extra finishers brought in from the hall (the local union) that think they can take over the job.
..........
Mike.
I've worked in the building trades most of my life, as everything from commercial project manager to just one of the worker bees. At a young age I was a project manager for union electricians, I was offered membership in that union.......turned them down........
We have a saying in the open shops I worked in, "there is only one boss on the job"........
For the last 25 years I have worked for myself restoring old houses, I don't miss commercial/industrial work one bit, or any of the labor BS that goes with it. On my jobs I'm the boss, and I don't put up with any........
I just spent the last 4 days installing historically correct replacement windows in house built in 1740, just me and the step son, no labor or customer woes.......
Sheldon
Dave, I go along with Rich, Jim and Sheldon. There are different community type on line resources, almost like a local community Facebook, where handyman type work is advertised.
The big one around here is called Nextdoor.com
I like the idea of finding a local carpenter that does "side jobs", especially this time of year, to help you out with the heavy part of getting some bench work going, for your own layout. Even if he buildt you a couple of modular type sections, as Jim mentions, that you position as you want.
I'm not sure how, or if you can get back into any situation with this guy, unless you have some allies in the club that will help you out.
I hope this all works out Dave, and hopefully you can get your own layout going, and put all of the excellent talent you have to work for you!
Then you can back into some build threads, like you usedto, the critters, the turntable, and others.
Just my thoughts,
My You Tube
With full respect for your feelings and who you are, I think Rich is right.
If you have the room and the resources, you need your own layout. I think it would be much better for you to build a layout, even if as others have suggested, you need help with the heavy work.
I know some people thrive at clubs, that's not me, I don't think it really is you either.
I have always seen clubs as something extra to my activity in the hobby, it could never be my primary participation in the hobby.
AFTER, you get a home layout going, then you could "vist" the club, be a "member on the fringe" (I'm sure the club has some of them already), participate without being a leader or boss in any way.
You will be happier.......
One last thought about dealing with people, there is a big difference between being selfish, and being "self envolved", there is nothing wrong with the latter.
Just as it is bad to not care about people, it is equally bad to have your self esteem too heavily invested in the opinions/reactions of others.
This is largely a solitary hobby in its primary activity of building things, imbrace the satisfaction that provides, do it on your own.
hon30critter I am now at the stage where I'm feeling somewhat angry (more like severely disappointed) about the way I was treated. I have been trying to think of a way to approach the club so that I can rejoin and at the same time prevent this from happening again. I don't want a confrontation, and I certainly don't want to cause the person who upset me to quit the club. He is a driving force within the club and a highly productive modeler. Having said that, he is also too dominant IMHO. I'd like to find a middle road.
I am now at the stage where I'm feeling somewhat angry (more like severely disappointed) about the way I was treated. I have been trying to think of a way to approach the club so that I can rejoin and at the same time prevent this from happening again. I don't want a confrontation, and I certainly don't want to cause the person who upset me to quit the club. He is a driving force within the club and a highly productive modeler. Having said that, he is also too dominant IMHO. I'd like to find a middle road.
I like the suggestion that you build your own layout, or at least have it built for you. Have you considered looking for a professional carpenter who might consider building the framework on the side? Around my neck of the woods, these guys are always interested in side jobs. I would think that if you designed the framework, it wouldn't take a pro long to build it. Just a thought.
Rich
Alton Junction
I'd help.
Terry
Terry in NW Wisconsin
Queenbogey715 is my Youtube channel
trainnut1250 Dave, I would take stock of the train guys you know in the area and in the club that you get along with and like. Hang out with those people.
I would take stock of the train guys you know in the area and in the club that you get along with and like. Hang out with those people.
Excellent advice.
Dave, if you can't build a layout due to back issues, perhaps you could enlist a helpful soul or two to help you do some key things like maybe erect some benchwork, to get you to a point that you can work on a home layout within your physical means.
I can understand probably benchwork is going to be the most physically strenuous stage of layout construction; I'm getting up there in years and can understand building benchwork is fairly physical - I'm using rubber mats for my knees and have some back problems too but not real bad so far.
If you can design a layout that is sufficent to run trains and have some operational interest, but not be too complex and time consuming to build, say a couple of weekends to errect the basic benchwork, maybe getting a helper or two would make that possible. That way you aren't committing anyone to too major a project and helpers may be more willing to lend a hand to get you through the hardest part.
Thowing together 4 or 5 open grid sections, or a bit more, can actually go pretty fast - get'em up on legs and hopefully the strenuous part is done. Then you can continue yourself after that. Something fairly basic but sufficient enough to allow decent radius and track. Something roughlly like this:
You could probably set up enough benchwork to have a folded dog-bone in a couple of weekends, maybe a couple of Saturday afternoons if you have it all planned out with the lumber and hardware etc. Snicker Snack. Once it is up, you may be able to work on it without too much help. If standing too long is difficult, have the height set so you can use a roll around chair. There may be yet a way to make it happen with some help of friends, especially if you keep the job fairly doable in a couple of afternoons time.
rrebellTrouble with clubs is they don't listen. They become non clubs because of this. Another is they become a type of dictatorship with the strongest member as boss, even with them being wrong on things.
Yup! Sounds familiar.
My withdrawal from the club was caused primarily by one member's extreme responses to what I thought were legitimate suggestions on my part.
Since I have tried to be honest and open with my comments throughout this thread, I may as well continue. I am now at the stage where I'm feeling somewhat angry (more like severely disappointed) about the way I was treated. I have been trying to think of a way to approach the club so that I can rejoin and at the same time prevent this from happening again. I don't want a confrontation, and I certainly don't want to cause the person who upset me to quit the club. He is a driving force within the club and a highly productive modeler. Having said that, he is also too dominant IMHO. I'd like to find a middle road.
In any case, that's not going to happen anytime soon. I have to get past the angry stage first.
I have had similar experiences in my journey through the hobby and I have found the best answer when its not fun anymore, is to avoid the people who are taking the fun out of it.
There are enough interpersonal issues with work, family and daily life that you cant avoid. The hobby should not be another of these.
I am sure there are people in the club who appreciate all your effort (this thread is huge - spanning years). I would take some comfort in the idea that you made a positive difference at the club while you were leading it.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Trouble with clubs is they don't listen. They become non clubs because of this. Another is they become a type of dictatorship with the strongest member as boss, even with them being wrong on things.
riogrande5761 Of course the problem can be if you don't have a layout at home, and that's can be a reason for going to a club.
I don't have a layout at home. I had great plans for one but my back issues put an end to that. I may try to build a small layout just so I can run trains.
I haven't given up on the hobby. I just bought a Rapido FP9A with sound and two True Line Trains CP boxcars!
I may go back to the club at some point, but only as a member. That won't happen for a while, if it ever does.
Thanks everyone for your support and kind words. You have helped me through a very rough time.
The Milwaukee Road Warrior riogrande5761 if you don't have a layout at home, and that's can be a reason for going to a club. Good point. (my comment about fun was tongue-in-cheek of course )
riogrande5761 if you don't have a layout at home, and that's can be a reason for going to a club.
Good point.
(my comment about fun was tongue-in-cheek of course )
Ah, missed that ... will have to go back and reread.
I was just commenting on the old club thing in general. It would suck if the only option for running trains relied on a club with jerks running it.
riogrande5761if you don't have a layout at home, and that's can be a reason for going to a club.
Andy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Milwaukee native modeling the Milwaukee Road in 1950's Milwaukee.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/196857529@N03/
The Milwaukee Road WarriorI read once somewhere that model trains are supposed to be fun.
If you've seen the cover of Model Railroader magazine, you've seen it more than once, you've seen it umpteen times.
Of course here, the issue isn't that trains aren't fun, it's people being party poopers, as sometimes they can be. Best solution is to remove the party poopers or remove self from them. Of course the problem can be if you don't have a layout at home, and that's can be a reason for going to a club.
Having never been a member of a club this makes for fascinating reading. Sorry about your recent experiences Dave. It's a shame that "adults" can't rise above their own crapulence for the enjoyment of the hobby. I read once somewhere that model trains are supposed to be fun. If it isn't fun anymore then you either have to cut your losses with the club like you did, or try to tough it out until there is a "regime change." Whatever you have to do for your own mental health. Just remember: just because someone says something to you/about you doesn't make it true. Some people are just difficult, miserable people and they bring that with them wherever they go. ...And the rest of us have to deal with them. Grrr.