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Layout From Start To Finish Locked

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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Thursday, June 16, 2016 5:44 PM

richhotrain
 
Brendan Buschi

I am going to see my dealer today. Hopefully this will put the entire MTH debacle behind me. If all goes as I have been assured I will have a refund on the 2 locomotives and a credit on the DCS Commander. If that happens I will use the credit with the dealer to purchase some MTH passenger cars. I'll let you know what happens.

 

 

At this point, why even bother with MTH cars?  There are plenty of other good brands out there for the choosing.

 

Rich

 

The MTH passenger cars have gotten excellent reviews on this blog from people who have no use whatsoever for MTH. I was getting a refund and a credit. If I used the credit for anything else I would be losing money. I cannot get a better price anywhere on an MTH product than I can from my dealer. That is not the case with other manufacturer's products.

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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Thursday, June 16, 2016 5:40 PM

richhotrain
It probably is a short, either as a result of your wiring or, more likely, one of the settings on your auto-reverser. When a loco stalls, then starts up again, coming out of a reverse loop, there typically is a conflict between the booster and the auto-reverser, so the booster shuts down the system. As soon as the system is reset, the loco starts up again.

There are 2 ways into the loop and 2 ways out. It does not short going in either way and it only shorts goind out one of the 2 possible ways. There are no settings on the auto-reverser. The leds on the auto-reverser indicate correct polarity in all cases. This only happens when it reaches the frog which is after the polarity has been reversed. The frog is insulated. Does this make sense?

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, June 16, 2016 2:03 PM

Brendan Buschi

I am going to see my dealer today. Hopefully this will put the entire MTH debacle behind me. If all goes as I have been assured I will have a refund on the 2 locomotives and a credit on the DCS Commander. If that happens I will use the credit with the dealer to purchase some MTH passenger cars. I'll let you know what happens.

At this point, why even bother with MTH cars?  There are plenty of other good brands out there for the choosing.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, June 16, 2016 2:01 PM

Brendan Buschi

On one of my reversing loops when I come out of it in one of the 2 possible directions I can come out of it in, the train stalls for a moment before proceeding. I have no clue. I don't think its a short.  

It probably is a short, either as a result of your wiring or, more likely, one of the settings on your auto-reverser. When a loco stalls, then starts up again, coming out of a reverse loop, there typically is a conflict between the booster and the auto-reverser, so the booster shuts down the system. As soon as the system is reset, the loco starts up again.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Thursday, June 16, 2016 12:04 PM

I am going to see my dealer today. Hopefully this will put the entire MTH debacle behind me. If all goes as I have been assured I will have a refund on the 2 locomotives and a credit on the DCS Commander. If that happens I will use the credit with the dealer to purchase some MTH passenger cars. I'll let you know what happens.

I have also experienced something I cannot understand and would love to hear you r thoughts on it. On one of my reversing loops when I come out of it in one of the 2 possible directions I can come out of it in, the train stalls for a moment before proceeding. I have no clue. I don't think its a short. I have tested the track voltage all around the insulators and it is constant. It happens when the train is coming out of the loop with the turnout in its normal position. I think it happens when the train encounters the frog. It does not happen on my other reversing loop.

I also need to attach the sun shades to my locomotive. I have made the holes in the locomotive where they attach bigger and the sun shades go in smoothly. I need to apply some kind of adhesive. Any suggestions on that?

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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 10:48 AM

Thanks for the info Mel. Your work is incredible. Beautiful job.

  • Member since
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  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 9:10 AM

Brendan Buschi

Hey Mel, thanks for posting this picture and for the info on the cars. The picture shows people in the passenger car. I'm guessing you put them there because the one thing I find lacking in all the passenger cars I see is the absence of people. How do you go about that? Is kit bashing taking a part from one car and adding it to another? I have been looking at the 72' cars because of the radius of my curves. How bad is the overhang on the 22" radius curve with the 72' cars?

 

 

All the info posted is very good; I learned from Ray that the Cab Forwards pulled the Owl through the Tehachapi mountains.  That really isn’t a surprise, that is one mean grade with lots of tunnels!  By the 1940s the tunnel count had dropped from 18 to 13 due to bypasses.  The average grade is 2% with 2.2% max over 28 miles.  Ouch!

 

Brendan there isn’t any overhang on the Athearn 72 footers on my 30” radius curves and it isn’t noticeable on my 22” turnout.

 

Dave is right on the money about the 1:100 figures, I don’t like using them but most of the passenger chairs are under sized for HO 1:87 figures.  I try to use 1:87 as much as I can even if I have to replace the seating.  I didn’t have much choice in the ¾ Dome car, I used the chopped up interior from a Bachmann 85’ Full Dome.

 

As for kitbashing it’s just get out the razor saw and chop stuff up then glue it back where it fits your fancy.

 

This is my Athearn SP ¾ Dome/Lounge car with the shell removed.

 

  

 

The seated figures on the upper deck are 1:100, the figures in the lounge area are 1:87.  Notice the added weight, a total of 4 onces of #8 bird shot.

 

I have a post on my blog of the kitbash of one of my ¾ Dome cars, some might disagree with the way I do things but it works for me.

 

 

Glad we have a new guy interested in the SP in particular the Cab Forwards, you need to give the AC-9s a look too.  The AC-9 is almost identical to the Cab Forward but with a conventional cab in the rear.

 

 
I was fortunate enough to ride in the cab of 4287 (Cab Forward) north bound from El Paso Texas to Alamogordo NM then ride back in the cab of 3807 (AC-9) for my 14th birthday present in 1951, a moment in time I will never forget.

 

 

Mel

 

 

 

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

 

 

 

My Model Railroad   

 

 

 

 

Bakersfield, California

 

 

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 6:37 AM

Gidday Brendan, just highlight what you want to quote and left click on the Add Quote to your Post box which should be just above the Post Body.

Thanks Cheers - let's see if this works.

  • Member since
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Posted by "JaBear" on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 6:03 AM

Brendan Buschi
What are you doing to put a quote from another post you are responding to in your posts?

Gidday Brendan, just highlight what you want to quote and left click on the Add Quote to your Post box which should be just above the Post Body.
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 4:31 AM

Thanks again Dave. The cars I am looking at have interiors - peopleless interiors.

On Thursday I pick up the kids and the train store I go to is about a mile from where they are. I'm waiting on the refund for the locomotives, but I'm getting a store credit on the DCS Commander. I was thinking of using that credit down the road to get the passenger cars and it only makes sense to do that at that store if I get MTH passenger cars.

I am not interested in another fiasco. I've read some posts on the MTH passenger cars and they have all been good - even people who have no use for DCS and MTH say nice things about the passenger cars. The 3 MTH cars on my 5 car train all work without a problem and roll very smoothly on the rails.

Before I get any passenger cars I will consult here. From the responses so far I'm looking to get a Broadway Limited steam engine. After the recent posts here, I have me eye on the 4525 SP Cab Forward 4-8-8-2, AC5 #4119, Gray boiler, "SOUTHERN PACIFIC LINES", w/ Paragon3 Sound/DC/DCC, HO.

What are you doing to put a quote from another post you are responding to in your posts?

I am always happy to hear from anybody on anything.

 

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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 4:11 AM

Hey Dave, I had read a blurb on a manufacturer's website, but I didn't put it together with the tunnel. Of course it makes sense. I think my steam locomotive will end up being a cab forward. Thanks.

I am already hooked. I am committed to making a solid layout. Beyond that I am committed to the kids. I'm allowing myself to be a kid too. The trains are really beautiful. My daughter gave me some sad news and now it's more important than ever for me to be able to be there for my grandchildren. We are picking them up again this week. When they were here last time I didn't even have a functioning locomotive. This week we've got a diesel, a 5 car train and a new DCC setup with automatic reversing loops and the skeleton of a tunnel.

I love building things. I love learning. Working on the layout is great. It has everything - electrical, mechanical and environmental. It is also a true art.

If the kids get hooked, I will be very happy and supportive. Me - I would want to build more layouts. I'm not sure if there is much opportunity out there for an old man going around building layouts. An image of Paladin just popped into my head. I could see myself with a card saying, "Have Model RR Will Travel". I can't see many people calling me up.

I build custom computers and do networks and installations and repairs, but even that is dropping off. I guess I'm dropping off too. I was weed whacking yesterday and it took its toll.

I always look forward to this forum. This is a good place.

 

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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:51 AM

Hi Brendan:

I hope you don't mind my adding my My 2 Cents worth to the question that you directed at Mel, and I hope he doesn't mind either.

Brendan Buschi
the one thing I find lacking in all the passenger cars I see is the absence of people. How do you go about that?

First question is - does your passenger car actually have an interior? Most modern cars do, but be aware if you are looking at buying older cars. Doing an interior is a PITA so I suggest you just avoid the cars without interiors.

There are tons of 'sitting passenger' figures available on eBay, mostly from China. I don't suggest spending the money on highly detailed figures for car interiors because the details simply won't show.

The problem with HO scale is that there isn't always enough space to fit the full sitting figure in the seats. Often you need to do some surgery (to put it politely) but it really doesn't matter if the figures still have legs since the legs can't be seen anyway.

You can also get 1:100 scale figures which are easier to fit. The smaller size usually isn't an issue when they are positioned inside a passenger car but they don't look all that good on a platform.

Some passenger cars are a bit of a challenge to open up, but they all can be opened. If you can't figure out how to do it, just ask.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:37 AM

Hey Ray this is good news. I really like the look of the Cab Forward engines. Thanks.

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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:32 AM

Hey Mel, thanks for posting this picture and for the info on the cars. The picture shows people in the passenger car. I'm guessing you put them there because the one thing I find lacking in all the passenger cars I see is the absence of people. How do you go about that? Is kit bashing taking a part from one car and adding it to another? I have been looking at the 72' cars because of the radius of my curves. How bad is the overhang on the 22" radius curve with the 72' cars?

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 12:22 AM

Hi Brendan:

Brendan Buschi
I have been looking at a Cab Forwards steam locomotive. What were they used for?

You may know this already, but the cab forward configuration was designed to keep the crew from having to breathe all the smoke and steam while they were in the long tunnels. Apparently things could get pretty nasty if you were in the usual 'cab at the back' style of locomotives. A cab forward locomotive would be a good match for your layout given the long tunnel.

Brendan - be warned, you sound like you are going to get really hooked by this hobby!!! That's a good thing!

Regards

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Colorado Ray on Monday, June 13, 2016 11:26 PM

RR_Mel

The SP had the Cab Forward designed and built for heavy freight service through the many tunnels and snow sheds across the Donor Pass and the Tehachapi Loop and to my knowledge they were never used in passenger service.
 
The SP used GS (4-8-4) & Mt (4-8-2) series steam locomotives for early passenger service and PA ALCo & E series EMD locomotives after steam was retired.

The SP used cab forwards on several of the passenger trains in and out of Los Angeles.  Larry Mullay and Bruce Petty's book "The Southern Pacific in Los Angeles" shows cab forwards on the Owl, Tehachapi, and the West Coast Limited. Several of my SP videos also show them in passenger service.

Ray

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, June 13, 2016 7:24 PM

All of my 50s passenger cars are Athearn Blue Box Streamlined 72’ in the SP Daylight Color Scheme.  I had some Bachmann 85’ full dome cars that I kitbashed into SP ¾ dome lounge cars but they didn’t look as good as the Athearn 72’ cars.  I have one 22” radius turnout exiting my passenger station and the 85’ car overhang showed badly.  They also looked strange mixed in with the 72’ Athearns.
 
I kitbashed two Athearn 72’ diners into ¾ Dome cars and they look much better than the 85 footers.  The SP didn’t own any Vista Dome’s; they only owned seven ¾ dome cars that were built up in the SP Sacramento Shops.
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Monday, June 13, 2016 2:08 PM

Thanks Mel - wow!

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, June 13, 2016 1:57 PM

The SP had the Cab Forward designed and built for heavy freight service through the many tunnels and snow sheds across the Donor Pass and the Tehachapi Loop and to my knowledge they were never used in passenger service.
 
The SP used GS (4-8-4) & Mt (4-8-2) series steam locomotives for early passenger service and PA ALCo & E series EMD locomotives after steam was retired.
 
 A very good SP reference site is the ESPEE Modelers Archive
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Monday, June 13, 2016 12:53 PM

Hey Mel, that's useful info. You also touched on something else. I have been looking at a Cab Forwards steam locomotive. What were they used for?

I like their looks. I was thinking of using a steam locomotive for a passenger train. I was thinking of getting Southern Pacific passenger cars. Is that something that would have been pulling passenger cars?

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, June 13, 2016 11:50 AM

My problem came from running articulateds, in particular the Rivarossi SP Cab Forwards.  The front over hang slightly exceeds the NMRA specs and touched the tunnel portal.  The portals are at a 30” radius curve to straight transition   I offset the portal 3/32” to the outside of the curve so that the front end doesn’t touch.  The 3/32” on the inside of the curve didn’t bother my 85’ passenger cars.
 
I used a UP Big Boy as a gauge to originally set my portals and was surprised that the Cab Forwards had more over hang than the Big Boy.
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Monday, June 13, 2016 10:00 AM

Thanks Mel, the tunnel portals are just before a curve and just after a curve. I'm thinking the smart thing to do is get whatever trains I plan to use and then work on the tunnel. I can always custom make the portals.

The cars I am looking at all have a minimum 22 inch turning radius. The smallest curve I have on the layout has a 22 inch turning radius. The other curves have a 24 inch turning radius.

  • Member since
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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, June 13, 2016 9:39 AM

Brendan Buschi

I have another question - I was going to use portals for the tunnel that are meant for a single track. I tested them with my little train and they are fine. Would they be equally fine with a train of passenger cars that are each 11.5 inches in length? I plan on testing this before buying anything, but any thoughts are welcome.

 

It’s hard to tell from your pictures exactly where your tunnel portal is but I will add my experiences; curves and tunnel portals don’t mix well.  Check everything you have for clearance as well as future long rolling stock including locomotives.
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Monday, June 13, 2016 9:29 AM

Thanks Ulrich. You are right and I just responded to Dan about this.

I have another question - I was going to use portals for the tunnel that are meant for a single track. I tested them with my little train and they are fine. Would they be equally fine with a train of passenger cars that are each 11.5 inches in length? I plan on testing this before buying anything, but any thoughts are welcome.

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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Monday, June 13, 2016 9:24 AM

Hey Dan - you are right. I knew nothing about this and went to see 2 dealers. I asked them a lot of questions and I thought I was being diligent. I never heard of DCS or DCC. Ultimately they each gave me information that I now realize had a lot to do with what they were selling as opposed to what was out there.

The thing is I know how to research most anything and am usually very good about it. I had no idea I needed to do this with trains. I made an assumption that things were pretty much the same as they were 60 years ago. That was not only wrong, it was dumb. I had a cell phone with me when I went to the dealers. I had gps navigation in my car. I had a car that started without a key.

Aside from all that I have been designing computer networks for over 2 decades. It's okay if I kick myself in the butt a bit, it will serve as a reminder for next time.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 13, 2016 9:22 AM

Brendan,

don´t be angry at yourself! It just adds misery to your life when you should be enjoying it! After all, your are gaining in experience , going through the ups and downs in the life of a model railroader. It takes some folks years to go through what you are doing in a couple of months!

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Posted by DanO22 on Monday, June 13, 2016 8:49 AM

Dont be angry just look at it as a lesson learned, in the future look before you jump ( easier said than done sometimes).

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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:37 PM

I've reread and edited my big post on the wiring of my reversing loops and circuit breaker protection for the layout. I think my language was really messy. I've tried to say it better for posterity. A lot has happened in the last week and I think it has taken more of a toll on me than I thought. Building the layout is now therapeutic.

I did my very first, very minor DCC programming - assigning a long address for my diesel. The more I understand DCC the angrier I become at MTH and myself for not looking before I jumped into this.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, June 11, 2016 6:34 PM

**edit**sorry meant that for Jeffrey's Diner.

Brendan I'm happy that things are coming together for you.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by Brendan Buschi on Saturday, June 11, 2016 11:09 AM

I just got in an Atlas Master Line Gold Series HO 10001820 GE Dash 8-40B, CSX #5931  locomotive. It works like a charm. It pulled my 5 cars around the track in all directons without incident. There were no uncouplings.

I also ran it through my reversing loops several times. The loops are fully automated, including turnout switching, and it just sailed on through.

It came with 2 sun shades that I have to attach. I am not sure whether these just snap in or if they need to be glued. There is also a small black plastic piece and I haven't a clue to what it is. It looks like it could be a bumper - it has 2 round discs at either end. Any suggestions?

I now want to automate my remaining turnouts. Atlas makes a #344 Master Turnout Control unit which is really a Lenz LS150 in disguise. DCC Specialties makes a Jack Wabbit. NCE makes a Q-Snap. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I am feeling no pain. I am also waiting to hear from my dealer about my refunds. He went to MTH on Thursday.

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