Michael,
Please feel free to plagiarize liberally.
Just understand that the amount of thought that went into this was to demonstrate to the feasibility of including the requested layout elements (he had some pictures and a rough outline of his available area). Not a lot of thought was given to issues such as access (although he said a duckunder / cockpit was fine) and operations, other than including the open pit mine and "a couple of industries" as he had requested.
In particular, there are access problems with the hidden track against the left-hand wall. Unless you were to build this in mirror image with that part against an aisle, you would be out of luck if you had a derailment in that tunnel, never mind trying to put scenery in the area.
So the short answer is, the design isn't ready for prime-time, but if it inspires you to create something, that's what it was intended to do, and use it with my blessing.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Michael6792 Paulus Jas: BTW Michael, i do not think the layout you like so much is well designed, start an own thread with that one as a base, and i could give you some concerns. It's not perfect & I realize that, but it's a place to start which is more than I had before. There will also need to be some modifications to fit my space but the first thing I need to do is make a detailed drawing of my space available. See, I'm learning...lol
Paulus Jas: BTW Michael, i do not think the layout you like so much is well designed, start an own thread with that one as a base, and i could give you some concerns.
BTW Michael, i do not think the layout you like so much is well designed, start an own thread with that one as a base, and i could give you some concerns.
It's not perfect & I realize that, but it's a place to start which is more than I had before. There will also need to be some modifications to fit my space but the first thing I need to do is make a detailed drawing of my space available. See, I'm learning...lol
Gentlemen -- please see my previous post on the subject (and yes, we are kind of hijacking the thread, so I'll be brief).
This was not a detailed, well thought out design. It represents an hour or two of work, designed to overcome someone's objections that they couldn't do some things in the space they had.
It never was intended as more than "food for thought." I agree though, that if we wanted to start a different thread, we could probably tweak it into something usable.
Please see my new thread...lol
Michael
Never attempt anything you don't want to explain to the EMT
ok everyone here it is
I do like the idea of stagging under the stairs to make it worth while it will need to be slightly lower then the rest of the layout.
Antag2002 ok everyone here it is I do like the idea of stagging under the stairs to make it worth while it will need to be slightly lower then the rest of the layout.
OK - we are getting closer. Can you add in your proposed benchwork outline and proposed layout?
As an example - here is one of my earliest plans for my own layout I posted here:
That was last summer. I did not finalize my trackwork and layout until very recently.
My Build Thread: https://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/185298.aspx
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hi gentlemen
in the first week of December i made a drawing for that space. We seem to back to the very beginning.
This might be a starter for a debate.
The run-around for miss H.
Transfer cuts coming in from staging. A classification yard to split those cars up for 3 different industrial area's.(local, dock and industry).
Even place for an engine terminal.
Paul
Yes Paul - a good starting point. This is much easier to work from.
I personally think this thread, along with the other thread about yard design, is great!
I've got Armstrong's and Sperandeos' (sp?) books and have spending quite a bit of time reading them. Especially Armstrong's book Designing for Realistic Operation. The information passed along by the members here, by trying to help someone struggle through the design process, is a great addition to all of the the book reading I've been doing. It has really helped me to put together a much better understanding of yard operations.
Either that, or everything I've been reading is just finally starting to sink in and make sense!
Paulus Jas hi gentlemen in the first week of December i made a drawing for that space. We seem to back to the very beginning. This might be a starter for a debate. The run-around for miss H. Transfer cuts coming in from staging. A classification yard to split those cars up for 3 different industrial area's.(local, dock and industry). Even place for an engine terminal. Paul
Antag2002 I do like this even said so before but with the furnace being 12 inches from the wall and having around 6 inches to get past the water heater i could put staging under the stairs.
I do like this even said so before but with the furnace being 12 inches from the wall and having around 6 inches to get past the water heater i could put staging under the stairs.
I don´t know how tall you are, but putting the staging under the stairs and having to move around a furnace and water heater to access your staging area in a limited clearance zone does not look to be a good choice to me.
hi Howard,
now it is time to work, no dreaming anymore. Try to draw a staging-yard under the stairs; IMHO the throat will be behind the furnace, 12 inches width is ample for a 4 or 5 track staging yard. But the very yard itself will be behind the water-heater, with space only 6 inches or 2 tracks wide.
By tilting the yard a bit, the engine-terminal could fit in the corner, labelled now "local industries". Due to length of the throats train-length will turn out to be not much more then one third of the length of the dedicated area. Six feet seems to be a good guess.
It is your turn on the drawing board!!
I admire the patience of all of those who have contributed to this thread. This thread has been running for nearly two months with no end in sight. In fact, it is not even near the end of the beginning. I jumped into this thread relatively late after the OP posted on another thread that I was following. What seemed like some small degree of progress was jettisoned when the OP completely and abruptly abandoned a proposed layout and reverted to scratch this past weekend.
I see two problems with this thread.
First, the use of available space is entirely unrealistic. Although the entire space measures 17' x 23', a significant portion of the space is unusable because it is committed to a laundry area, furnace and water meter, and stairs. In addtion, additional space, though open, is essentially unusable because it is reserve for access. This leaves three connected blocks of space which Paul has efficiently utilized in his latest layout diagram. Any notion of running staging or other track work under the staircase is utter nonsense given the space cpnsiderations as shown in the drawing that follows:
Second, after re-reading this entire thread once again, all seven pages, the OP has offered very little and has essentially sat back and waited for someone else to design a track plan to his liking. In fact, the only substantive contribution that the OP has made was the yard layout that he posted, only to be retracted when positive critique was offered. I agree with Paul that it is time for the OP to stop dreaming and step forward with a concrete track plan complete with whatever he wishes to incorporate whether it be a single or double mainline, a freight yard, an engine servicing faciltiy, an industrial siding, or whatever.
Rich
Alton Junction
Sir Madog Antag2002: I do like this even said so before but with the furnace being 12 inches from the wall and having around 6 inches to get past the water heater i could put staging under the stairs. I don´t know how tall you are, but putting the staging under the stairs and having to move around a furnace and water heater to access your staging area in a limited clearance zone does not look to be a good choice to me.
Antag2002: I do like this even said so before but with the furnace being 12 inches from the wall and having around 6 inches to get past the water heater i could put staging under the stairs.
richhotrain I admire the patience of all of those who have contributed to this thread. This thread has been running for nearly two months with no end in sight. In fact, it is not even near the end of the beginning. I jumped into this thread relatively late after the OP posted on another thread that I was following. What seemed like some small degree of progress was jettisoned when the OP completely and abruptly abandoned a proposed layout and reverted to scratch this past weekend. I see two problems with this thread. First, the use of available space is entirely unrealistic. Although the entire space measures 17' x 23', a significant portion of the space is unusable because it is committed to a laundry area, furnace and water meter, and stairs. In addtion, additional space, though open, is essentially unusable because it is reserve for access. This leaves three connected blocks of space which Paul has efficiently utilized in his latest layout diagram. Any notion of running staging or other track work under the staircase is utter nonsense given the space cpnsiderations as shown in the drawing that follows: Second, after re-reading this entire thread once again, all seven pages, the OP has offered very little and has essentially sat back and waited for someone else to design a track plan to his liking. In fact, the only substantive contribution that the OP has made was the yard layout that he posted, only to be retracted when positive critique was offered. I agree with Paul that it is time for the OP to stop dreaming and step forward with a concrete track plan complete with whatever he wishes to incorporate whether it be a single or double mainline, a freight yard, an engine servicing faciltiy, an industrial siding, or whatever. Rich
Can you clarify which direction the stairs are? Do they enter the basement at the right hand side on Paul's plan or the left?
from the rightthe only things in the way woulf be 2 4x4 posts that hold up the landing other than that there all open
Antag2002 I also admire everyones patience as well i can be difficult to work with, But i have made drawing of more then just the yard and have had them shot down with no explainations just as alco did and you had said he was being unfair as well.As for me to step up to the drawing board i have some elements that I have drawn up and i am trying to get them to connect as soon as this is done i will post it.I am pretty sure i have been prettty clear on what i need and would lik to have right from the begining if i have missed something can someone point it out? i would be happy to fill in the gapHoward
I also admire everyones patience as well i can be difficult to work with, But i have made drawing of more then just the yard and have had them shot down with no explainations just as alco did and you had said he was being unfair as well.As for me to step up to the drawing board i have some elements that I have drawn up and i am trying to get them to connect as soon as this is done i will post it.I am pretty sure i have been prettty clear on what i need and would lik to have right from the begining if i have missed something can someone point it out? i would be happy to fill in the gapHoward
I also admire everyones patience as well i can be difficult to work with, But i have made drawing of more then just the yard and have had them shot down with no explainations just as alco did and you had said he was being unfair as well.As for me to step up to the drawing board i have some elements that I have drawn up and i am trying to get them to connect as soon as this is done i will post it.I am pretty sure i have been prettty clear on what i need and would lik to have right from the begining
if i have missed something can someone point it out? i would be happy to fill in the gapHoward
You say that you can be difficult to work with. Why is that? It just makes it that much more difficult for anyone to help you.
Yes, you have been clear right from the start about what you need and what you like. But, there has to be more interaction than that.
You haven't really addressed either of the two issues that I raised. First, the use of available space is entirely unrealistic, including staging under a descending staircase. Second, having told us what you need and what you like, you have essentially sat back and waited for someone else to design a track plan to your liking. There has to be some give and take here if you are going to get any help and advice.
I actually think staging under the stairs could work and it would be out of the way. Remember the OP said there is 6" between the water heater and the wall. On Paul's plan - the water heater is right against the wall.
Aralai I actually think staging under the stairs could work and it would be out of the way. Remember the OP said there is 6" between the water heater and the wall. On Paul's plan - the water heater is right against the wall.
Oh, it could "work" in the sense of constructing it, but just try operating it. As soon as the first derailment occurs, regret will begin to set in.
hi gentlemen,
six inches allows for a two track staging yard. It's up to the OP if this is sufficient. As is usual Howard does not respond to it. Nor does he with what Rich calls questionable space.
BTW, the height of your layout will be critical under the stairs; i prefer a layout height of about 50". definitely not a 30" high table top.
Just an idea? The second post will make the scenes around it rather tight, with 3,5 feet at both sides it will be possible to work around it.
i have started on my plan and yes it will work i even went and cut some lumber and test fitted it in and there is lots of room even at the end where it wood meet the staircase approx 8 inches.the shotest stagging track would only be 48 inches long but that would still hold approx 8 cars at an avarage of6inches long each.the longest track would be almost 7 feet or 84" long which would hold around 14 carsi hope to have the first draft of the plan up by the end of this week.Howard
just a thought on how the stagging under the stair could go
... but how much headroom do you have at the stub end, if your layout is set at a min. height of, say 42" ?
from the stubb end to the next stair up at 42" would be approx 12 inches but 11" from the stubb end would be about 16 inches.
just went down and took a measuring tape to it actual measurements are 11" 16" 24" wich i can stand up right under them at the 24 inch spot that gives 66" from the floor.............Yes i know im short lol
Sir Madog ... but how much headroom do you have at the stub end, if your layout is set at a min. height of, say 42" ?
If you look at antag's floor diagram that he posted yesterday, he notes a clearance of 46" from the floor to the underside of the stair. With a layout set at a 42" height, that leaves 4", take away 2" for the height of a car and you are left with 2".
Antag2002 i have started on my plan
i have started on my plan
What plan? Therein lies the problem.
Paulus Jas six inches allows for a two track staging yard. It's up to the OP if this is sufficient. As is usual Howard does not respond to it. Nor does he with what Rich calls questionable space. Paul
That is something that I notice with great regularity throughout this thread. Ideas are dismissed or barely responded to. If you go back and look at Paul's various layout plans, and it probably took a few hours at least to develop each one, the OP hardly pays them lip service.
As I ask myself why I continue to follow this thread, my answer is a combination of amusement and morbid curiosity.
Rich The Antagonized - LOL
Antag2002 just a thought on how the stagging under the stair could go
Behind the furnace and water heater? Beautiful. This reminds me of the time that I pondered running a lift out section across my laundry tub before sanity prevailed. I am not sure that will happen here.