New Layout Help

[Hamltnblue]

Howard,

One thing you should do differently in the future is start a new thread if you have a question.  Coming in on the 9th page with a new topic just confuses people and they may think they're answering the original thread the've been following. Also starting a new thread allows you to keep track of answers to your specific questions.

 

[Motley]

Hmm, ok this thing has gone 9 pages, and you still don't have a solid plan? WOW!

[Anonymous]

Howard,

I have been following this thread and I am sorry to see that it has developed a certain touch to it which it should not have. I also shot out a snipe.

We have some folks in here who combine more railroad operation knowledge and track planning expertise than you´d ever find in a book. They are all very helpful and willing to dedicate hours of their time to assist you in developing your track plan. The key word is "assist" they won´t be doing it for you - how could they, without knowing what you have in mind?

It is worthwhile listening to their comments, even if they appear to be  a little rough!

[Aralai]

I think I have said before that when I first came here seeking advice I felt some of the feedback was negative, but it has been invaluable to me. Paul was pretty blunt and I thought negative, but he has taken a lot of time and given me feedback that has saved me a ton of re-work.

I found that by being patient, showing a willingness to listen, and do the work on my end to keep posting a detailed updated layout helped a lot.

The first layout I posted was pretty much laughed off the forum. That's always tough to take, but looking back at it now - I would say the same thing. It was a combination of my inability to use Atlas RTS and not understanding how things all work together. I am getting better at using RTS and understand railroad operation much better. Certainly there are some books that were also a great help.

Seriously - take a read of my original thread here.

The next train show in our area is Feb 19 & 20 at Bradford Greenhouses in Barrie - Hwy 27 & Hwy 90.

I went last year and it was a good show. I'll be going again this year.

Also in November there is a great tour of people's layouts in the Guelph area - it is well worth it.

[Antag2002]

Oh i do most def. need the help. I just dont need the negativity i think as i said will wait till i have a concrete plan in hand before i ask for help or more advice.

there are lots of threads i can creep and learn stuff from and the more i get into this book by armstrong the more and more im understanding.

i do remember however that you do not live far fom me. (Oshawa for me). Do you know of any train shows in our area on in the near future?

i think they would be a great source of in person understanding of HO layouts.

Thank you to everyone for there help suggestions and advice.
I most likely wont be posting for a bit as i have a tonne of materials and ideas to work with to come up with a plan, a track plan and an idea about how it all should operate.

Howard

[Aralai]

Antag2002

Starting an HO Layout. I live in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

I in Spitting distance to the CN/CP/Via/GO transit tracks. I have always been a fan of steam, and of early diesel so naturally I will be modeling somewhere between 1941 -1960.
I have a decent sized space to work with roughley 150 sqft.

Now here in lies my need for help.

 My friends and I who will be operating this layout have the need for lots of switching and industries to haul freight to and from, as well as a yard to sort and prepare the strings of cars to be moved.
But. My wife has the need for simplicity of a continuous loop so she can just set the turnouts and flick a switch and the train will do circuits while she is doing the laundry.

As for scenery I can look in my backyard and see what it looks like now but to do a model between 1941 and 1960 I need to find pictures and route maps, As well as some ideas of what industries where being served by these rails during that time.

Well that’s all I can think of right now.

Any suggestions?

Thank you in advance

Howard.

 

The only actual question you asked was "Any suggestions?"

You didn't specifically ask for pictures or where to find them, nor even for specific layout ideas, although since you did say "here in lies my need for help" followed by your desire for operating ans switching with a "But"  your wife wants a continuous loop - it's natural that people would assume you were looking for layout advice.

I think you may have been too general. Do you want layout advice? Do you want advice on where to find info about industries / pictures from a particular era / area?

Did we jump the gun and were eager to offer advice you did not really want or need?

[Antag2002]

Reply More

Starting an HO Layout. I live in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

I in Spitting distance to the CN/CP/Via/GO transit tracks. I have always been a fan of steam, and of early diesel so naturally I will be modeling somewhere between 1941 -1960.
I have a decent sized space to work with roughley 150 sqft.

Now here in lies my need for help.

 My friends and I who will be operating this layout have the need for lots of switching and industries to haul freight to and from, as well as a yard to sort and prepare the strings of cars to be moved.
But. My wife has the need for simplicity of a continuous loop so she can just set the turnouts and flick a switch and the train will do circuits while she is doing the laundry.

As for scenery I can look in my backyard and see what it looks like now but to do a model between 1941 and 1960 I need to find pictures and route maps, As well as some ideas of what industries where being served by these rails during that time.

Well that’s all I can think of right now.

Any suggestions?

Thank you in advance

Howard.

 

this was my first post in it i asked specifically what industries where around in this area at that time . and if anyone knew where to find pictures of this area during this time.

after that i got some great advice and then i posted my first idea in which i was told i was a fool.
fine im a fool.

maybe when im done fleshing out my plans i will take some pictures of my space so everyone can clearly see what im talking about. I assume this will take some time maybe a week maybe more but i will post my plans regardless if you agree or disagree or even if you wish to bash the ideas or to help and make suggestions

Howard

[Antag2002]

richhotrain

Paulus Jas:

six inches allows for a two track staging yard. It's up to the OP if this is sufficient.    As is usual Howard does not respond to it. Nor does he with what Rich calls questionable space.

Paul

 

That is something that I notice with great regularity throughout this thread.  Ideas are dismissed or barely responded to.  If you go back and look at Paul's various layout plans, and it probably took a few hours at least to develop each one, the OP hardly pays them lip service.

As I ask myself why I continue to follow this thread, my answer is a combination of amusement and morbid curiosity.

Rich The Antagonized - LOL

my response to it was idea of the partial plan i posted. And the questionable space was answered along time ago in which i said it would make a great aisle way.to and from the furnace as well as space to operate the layout.

as for no "lip service about the 2 track plans you posted i said i like the ideas. and im using parts of them while working on my plan.

which leads me into "what plan" i am working on making a plan. 

[Anonymous]

richhotrain

 

Sir Madog:

 

... but how much headroom do you have at the stub end, if your layout is set at a min. height of, say 42" ?

 

 

If you look at antag's floor diagram that he posted yesterday, he notes a clearance of 46" from the floor to the underside of the stair.  With a layout set at a 42" height, that leaves 4", take away 2" for the height of a car and you are left with 2".

Rich

Then he must be either a midget, putting his layout at 20" or he plans to attend his staging yard through the stairs, either which one is most unlikely to work properly.

I wonder why he asking questions to the forum members, apparently he knows much better than the rest of us.

[richhotrain]

Antag2002

just a thought on how the stagging under the stair could go

Behind the furnace and water heater?  Beautiful.  This reminds me of the time that I pondered running a lift out section across my laundry tub before sanity prevailed.  I am not sure that will happen here. 

[richhotrain]

Paulus Jas

six inches allows for a two track staging yard. It's up to the OP if this is sufficient.    As is usual Howard does not respond to it. Nor does he with what Rich calls questionable space.

Paul

That is something that I notice with great regularity throughout this thread.  Ideas are dismissed or barely responded to.  If you go back and look at Paul's various layout plans, and it probably took a few hours at least to develop each one, the OP hardly pays them lip service.

As I ask myself why I continue to follow this thread, my answer is a combination of amusement and morbid curiosity.

Rich The Antagonized - LOL

[richhotrain]

Antag2002

i have started on my plan

What plan?  Therein lies the problem.

 

[richhotrain]

Sir Madog

... but how much headroom do you have at the stub end, if your layout is set at a min. height of, say 42" ?

If you look at antag's floor diagram that he posted yesterday, he notes a clearance of 46" from the floor to the underside of the stair.  With a layout set at a 42" height, that leaves 4", take away 2" for the height of a car and you are left with 2".

Rich

[Antag2002]

just went down and took a measuring tape to it actual measurements are 11" 16" 24" wich i can stand up right under them at the 24 inch spot that gives 66" from the floor.............
Yes i know im short lol

[Antag2002]

[Antag2002]

from the stubb end to the next stair up at 42" would be approx 12 inches but 11" from the stubb end would be about 16 inches.

[Anonymous]

... but how much headroom do you have at the stub end, if your layout is set at a min. height of, say 42" ?

[Antag2002]

just a thought on how the stagging under the stair could go

[Antag2002]

i have started on my plan and yes it will work i even went and cut some lumber and test fitted it in and there is lots of room even at the end where it wood meet the staircase approx 8 inches.

the shotest stagging track would only be 48 inches long but that would still hold approx 8 cars at an avarage of6inches long each.the longest track would be almost 7 feet or 84" long which would hold around 14 cars

i hope to have the first draft of the plan up by the end of this week.

Howard

[Paulus Jas]

hi gentlemen,

six inches allows for a two track staging yard. It's up to the OP if this is sufficient. As is usual Howard does not respond to it. Nor does he with what Rich calls questionable space.

BTW, the height of your layout will be critical under the stairs; i prefer a layout height of about 50". definitely not a 30" high table top.

Just an idea? The second post will make the scenes around it rather tight, with 3,5 feet at both sides it will be possible to work around it.

Paul

[richhotrain]

Aralai

I actually think staging under the stairs could work and it would be out of the way. Remember the OP said there is 6" between the water heater and the wall. On Paul's plan - the water heater is right against the wall.

Oh, it could "work" in the sense of constructing it, but just try operating it.  As soon as the first derailment occurs, regret will begin to set in.

Rich

[Aralai]

I actually think staging under the stairs could work and it would be out of the way. Remember the OP said there is 6" between the water heater and the wall. On Paul's plan - the water heater is right against the wall.

[richhotrain]

Antag2002

I also admire everyones patience as well i can be difficult to work with, But i have made drawing of more then just the yard and have had them shot down with no explainations just as alco did and you had said he was being unfair as well.

As for me to step up to the drawing board i have some elements that I have drawn up and i am trying to get them to connect as soon as this is done i will post it.

I am pretty sure i have been prettty clear on what i need and would lik to have right from the begining

if i have missed something can someone point it out? i would be happy to fill in the gap

Howard

 

You say that you can be difficult to work with.  Why is that?  It just makes it that much more difficult for anyone to help you.

Yes, you have been clear right from the start about what you need and what you like.  But, there has to be more interaction than that.

You haven't really addressed either of the two issues that I raised.  First, the use of available space is entirely unrealistic, including staging under a descending staircase. Second, having told us what you need and what you like, you have essentially sat back and waited for someone else to design a track plan to your liking.  There has to be some give and take here if you are going to get any help and advice.

Rich

 

[Antag2002]

from the right

the only things in the way woulf be 2 4x4 posts that hold up the landing other than that there all open

 

[Aralai]

Can you clarify which direction the stairs are? Do they enter the basement at the right hand side on Paul's plan or the left?

[Antag2002]

richhotrain

I admire the patience of all of those who have contributed to this thread.  This thread has been running for nearly two months with no end in sight.  In fact, it is not even near the end of the beginning.  I jumped into this thread relatively late after the OP posted on another thread that I was following.  What seemed like some small degree of progress was jettisoned when the OP completely and abruptly abandoned a proposed layout and reverted to scratch this past weekend.

I see two problems with this thread.

First, the use of available space is entirely unrealistic.  Although the entire space measures 17' x 23', a significant portion of the space is unusable because it is committed to a laundry area, furnace and water meter, and stairs.  In addtion, additional space, though open, is essentially unusable because it is reserve for access.  This leaves three connected blocks of space which Paul has efficiently utilized in his latest layout diagram.   Any notion of running staging or other track work under the staircase is utter nonsense given the space cpnsiderations as shown in the drawing that follows:

Second, after re-reading this entire thread once again, all seven pages, the OP has offered very little and has essentially sat back and waited for someone else to design a track plan to his liking.  In fact, the only substantive contribution that the OP has made was the yard layout that he posted, only to be retracted when positive critique was offered.  I agree with Paul that it is time for the OP to stop dreaming and step forward with a concrete track plan complete with whatever he wishes to incorporate whether it be a single or double mainline, a freight yard, an engine servicing faciltiy, an industrial siding, or whatever.

Rich

I also admire everyones patience as well i can be difficult to work with, But i have made drawing of more then just the yard and have had them shot down with no explainations just as alco did and you had said he was being unfair as well.

As for me to step up to the drawing board i have some elements that I have drawn up and i am trying to get them to connect as soon as this is done i will post it.

I am pretty sure i have been prettty clear on what i need and would lik to have right from the begining
if i have missed something can someone point it out? i would be happy to fill in the gap

Howard

 

[Antag2002]

Sir Madog

Antag2002:

 

I do like this even said so before but with the furnace being 12 inches from the wall and having around 6 inches to get past the water heater i could put staging under the stairs.

 

I don´t know how tall you are, but putting the staging under the stairs and having to move around a furnace and water heater to access your staging area in a limited clearance zone does not look to be a good choice to me.

 

under the stairs is completely open from the side.

[richhotrain]

I admire the patience of all of those who have contributed to this thread.  This thread has been running for nearly two months with no end in sight.  In fact, it is not even near the end of the beginning.  I jumped into this thread relatively late after the OP posted on another thread that I was following.  What seemed like some small degree of progress was jettisoned when the OP completely and abruptly abandoned a proposed layout and reverted to scratch this past weekend.

I see two problems with this thread.

First, the use of available space is entirely unrealistic.  Although the entire space measures 17' x 23', a significant portion of the space is unusable because it is committed to a laundry area, furnace and water meter, and stairs.  In addtion, additional space, though open, is essentially unusable because it is reserve for access.  This leaves three connected blocks of space which Paul has efficiently utilized in his latest layout diagram.   Any notion of running staging or other track work under the staircase is utter nonsense given the space cpnsiderations as shown in the drawing that follows:

Second, after re-reading this entire thread once again, all seven pages, the OP has offered very little and has essentially sat back and waited for someone else to design a track plan to his liking.  In fact, the only substantive contribution that the OP has made was the yard layout that he posted, only to be retracted when positive critique was offered.  I agree with Paul that it is time for the OP to stop dreaming and step forward with a concrete track plan complete with whatever he wishes to incorporate whether it be a single or double mainline, a freight yard, an engine servicing faciltiy, an industrial siding, or whatever.

Rich

[Paulus Jas]

hi Howard,

now it is time to work, no dreaming anymore. Try to draw a staging-yard under the stairs; IMHO the throat will be behind the furnace, 12 inches width is ample for a 4 or 5 track staging yard. But the very yard itself will be behind the water-heater, with space only 6 inches or 2 tracks wide.

By tilting the yard a bit, the engine-terminal could fit in the corner, labelled now "local industries". Due to length of the throats train-length will turn out to be not much more then one third of the length of the dedicated area. Six feet seems to be a good guess.

It is your turn on the drawing board!!

Paul