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New Layout Help

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Posted by Antag2002 on Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:32 PM

wow 2 days looing for it and itwas right there lol

 

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Posted by Antag2002 on Thursday, January 20, 2011 3:39 PM

here is what my yard plan looks like so far suggestions?


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Posted by Michael6792 on Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:01 PM

Not trying to hi-jack your thread, but is that software fairly easy to use? I tried a trial version of win-rail & didn't like it.

Michael

Never attempt anything you don't want to explain to the EMT

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Posted by Antag2002 on Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:06 PM

yeh its easyer then others that i have tried but there still is a learning curve to it and if you can do it on here it has in my expeirece worked out  with real track.

give it a try the trial version will let you use upto 50 objects to see if you like it.

http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html

and I know your not hi-jacking, you just had a question to me about something you know i have experience with. Some people on these forums can get a lil excited about chiming in on anothers thread im not one of them.

Hope it helps you.

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Posted by Michael6792 on Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:11 PM

Thanks, I'll give it a try & see how I like it.

Michael

Never attempt anything you don't want to explain to the EMT

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:18 PM

Antag2002

here is what my yard plan looks like so far suggestions?


http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g389/Antag2002/train/classyard5.jpg

Antag,

Pretty good looking yard configuration, if you ask me.

A few thoughts based on the discussion in the Help Designing a Yard thread:

The switching lead is a little shorter than the A/D tracks so classifying longer trains could be a problem.

The main line will be blocked as trains are routed from the A/D tracks to the switching lead track.

You could create a switcher pocket by extending the yard ladder.

You could create an escape track to the main line below the classification tracks by installing a right hand turnout before the classification track ladder.

Just some thoughts.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by alco_fan on Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:35 PM

Antag2002

here is what my yard plan looks like so far suggestions?

That does not remotely resemble a typical prototype yard or a well designed HO yard. If you don't know why it doesn't, read Armstrongs Track Planning for Realistic Operation before you spend more time on drawing yards. Sorry to tell you the truth straight up.

Jon

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:41 PM

alco_fan

 Antag2002:

here is what my yard plan looks like so far suggestions?

 

That does not remotely resemble a typical prototype yard or a well designed HO yard. If you don't know why it doesn't, read Armstrongs Track Planning for Realistic Operation before you spend more time on drawing yards. Sorry to tell you the truth straight up.

Jon

Well, that's hardly fair!

How about a little critique or constructive comment?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by alco_fan on Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:54 PM

richhotrain

 

How about a little critique or constructive comment?

 

Honestly, its so far off a "little" critique wont help. The whole thing is designed like a seesaw. You runaround and then run the full length back and forth for every move from the ad to the main yard. Thats not how yards work

It has all the names for a good yard. But the parts are connected as if the draftsman has no idea how yards work at all.

This is all explained in Armstrong. A couple of hours with the book would show anyone why this is wrong. Why try to explain it with a hundred more posts when he could read and learn.

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:06 PM

alco_fan

 richhotrain:

 

How about a little critique or constructive comment?

 

 

Honestly, its so far off a "little" critique wont help. The whole thing is designed like a seesaw. You runaround and then run the full length back and forth for every move from the ad to the main yard. Thats not how yards work

It has all the names for a good yard. But the parts are connected as if the draftsman has no idea how yards work at all.

This is all explained in Armstrong. A couple of hours with the book would show anyone why this is wrong. Why try to explain it with a hundred more posts when he could read and learn.

LOL

C,mon, Alco, take a shot at it.  We would like to see how you might fit a yard in that space.  Even if The Antagonist doesn't get it, the rest of us will.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Antag2002 on Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:33 PM

The switching lead is a little shorter than the A/D tracks so classifying longer trains could be a problem.

ok i do understand what you are saying here but i made the yard lead long enough for the longest train i plan on running.

The main line will be blocked as trains are routed from the A/D tracks to the switching lead track

any suggestions on how to fix that??

You could create a switcher pocket by extending the yard ladder.

Are you suggesting a place to park the the yard goat so its out of the way?

You could create an escape track to the main line below the classification tracks by installing a right hand turnout before the classification track ladder

what would this be used for?

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Posted by Antag2002 on Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:35 PM

Listen Alco.
If you think you are the be all end all of yard design wheres your book on how to do it?

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Posted by Aralai on Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:41 PM

My 2 cents:

The runaround is too short - I have found a longer runaround works better. Of course you can use your A/D tracks if you need to.

If you flipped the stub sidings with the runaround you would save space and the yard would be more efficient and more prototypical.

 

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Posted by Antag2002 on Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:43 PM

hmmm ... ill try it and see what it would look like

 

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Posted by Paulus Jas on Friday, January 21, 2011 12:42 AM

antag,

You could start by showing the place of your yard in your room, the dimensions are different from those you gave earlier.

paul

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Posted by Antag2002 on Friday, January 21, 2011 1:22 AM

first: why does it matter where it goes?

Second:i asked for  suggestions on the yard alone regardles of the rest of the layout.

thanks paul

 

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Posted by Paulus Jas on Friday, January 21, 2011 1:50 AM

hi Antag,

if I like to see a lot of good yard designs i read Andy Sperandeo's book or John Armstrong's. Helping to get one of those designs in your space is what i like.

It starts, besides with a drawing of your room and the place of the yard in it, with setting standards. Like train length, length of the cars and engines, radii and switch-numbers.

Second, what do you want to achieve with that yard, eg splitting up a freight train into 4 blocks for different industrial area's. Is it an engine terminal as well?

A lot is wrong on your design: the placement of the drill the very most. Numerous unnecessary S-curves everywhere and train-lengths that are not clear at all.

Paul 

 

  

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, January 21, 2011 6:26 AM

Antag2002

The switching lead is a little shorter than the A/D tracks so classifying longer trains could be a problem.

ok i do understand what you are saying here but i made the yard lead long enough for the longest train i plan on running.

The main line will be blocked as trains are routed from the A/D tracks to the switching lead track

any suggestions on how to fix that??

You could create a switcher pocket by extending the yard ladder.

Are you suggesting a place to park the the yard goat so its out of the way?

You could create an escape track to the main line below the classification tracks by installing a right hand turnout before the classification track ladder

what would this be used for?

antag,

I agree with Paul that a more complete layout diagram is essential, and the reason is simple.  Aside from any understanding of how you want to use the yard, a more complete layout diagram will give us an idea of your space availability and your space limitations.  None of this is apparent in the partial track plan that you have shown.

In the track plan shown, the entire space is 21' x 2', and the yard itself is 17' x 2'.  If you don't count the last three feet of the switching lead at the left, then the usable yard space is only 14' x 2'.  Within that 2 foot vertical space, you have placed 11 different horizontal tracks.  That is pretty tight.  So, the question remains, what does the rest of your track plan look like, and how much space is available for modifications to the yard plan.

The biggest problem with the current yard plan is the reverse Z shape.  Once a train enters the yard from the left on one of the arrival-departure tracks, the switcher has to come off of the mainline from the left behind the train to begin the switching process and then re-enter the mainline to eventually reach the switching lead track.  If the switcher enters from the right, once it removes the cars from the arrival-departure track, it needs to back onto the mainline, then push the cars to the switching lead track, then pull the cars onto one of the classification tracks, trapping the switcher.   So, that problem needs to be solved.

One solution to that problem would be to move the classification tracks to the left side of the yard.

Another solution, if space permits, would be to place a switching lead track up along the left side of the layout before the arrival-departure track.

The reason that I mentioned an escape track from the switching lead to the mainline is to permit mainline access from a second point for a completed train when the first point is blocked by a switcher assembling or disassembling another train at the arrival-departure tracks.

The switcher pocket suggestion was made since you need flexibility in manuevering the switcher engine around the ladder or simply to park it.

One other point.  You mentioned that the switching lead track is as long as your longest train.  Since the switching lead appears to be shorter than the arrival-departure track, perhaps you can shorten the arrival-departure track somewhat to conserve space.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Antag2002 on Friday, January 21, 2011 8:26 AM

ok i understand i have to head out for a bit when i get back i will tak ethe time to explain everything and post a diagram of what is going on

 

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Posted by Antag2002 on Friday, January 21, 2011 12:21 PM

ok guys Here is my basment area in question.

i was planning on moving the washer and sink but this is impossible as the drain for the sink is here and i dont feel like busting out the floor to move it.

so instead i busted out the wall that was running between the furnace area and the rest of the basment so i could use the dead space as an isle for my layout.



im planning on putting the yard along the 36" aisle that will run between the layout and the stairs.So case in point Paul i made my plan to big.Help? lol i am working on a new design that will fit if any one has some ideas that are intelligent feel free other wize Please save me the annoyance of admins deleting my responses

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, January 21, 2011 1:31 PM

Antag2002

ok guys Here is my basment area in question.

i was planning on moving the washer and sink but this is impossible as the drain for the sink is here and i dont feel like busting out the floor to move it.

so instead i busted out the wall that was running between the furnace area and the rest of the basment so i could use the dead space as an isle for my layout.

im planning on putting the yard along the 36" aisle that will run between the layout and the stairs.So case in point Paul i made my plan to big.Help? lol i am working on a new design that will fit if any one has some ideas that are intelligent feel free other wize Please save me the annoyance of admins deleting my responses

I searched the Smilies catalog for a white flag, but I cannot find one.  I surrender anyhow. 

Paul, he is all yours. 

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Antag2002 on Friday, January 21, 2011 1:37 PM

lol handing me over to paul??

lol rich you had some great suggestions before. why you giving up?lol

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Posted by Aralai on Saturday, January 22, 2011 12:20 AM

Here is my 2 cents.

While you are asking about parts of your layout, to get good advice, people need the big picture. When I came here looking for advice, I learned that quickly and put together a plan showing my whole room with furnace, doors, windows, walls - like you have, but also included the benchwork outline and track layout.

Don't worry if you have not finalized track layout or benchwork yet, but do a preliminary plan anyway. With that AND a good description of what you want to do as far as operating etc - there are people like Paul here that can give you invaluable advice and ideas.

My first layout plan looks little like my final plan - although the basic elements were there. It went through a lot of tweaking and back and forth - thanks to Paul, Stein and others.

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Posted by Antag2002 on Saturday, January 22, 2011 8:03 PM

i guess that would help.

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Posted by CTValleyRR on Saturday, January 22, 2011 8:57 PM

Having read this entire thread and looked at some of the advice offered the OP, as well as his responses to suggestions and criticism, I'm probably a real idiot for signing on to a thread started by someone who seems to be proud to ba called Antagonist.

However, Antagonist, I have to say that I still have no idea what you're trying to do with your layout and what your real limitations and ideas are.  You also seem to be in a huge hurry.  Not only are you in too much of a hurry to type clearly, but you also don't seem to want to take the time to think through your answers.

Since you seem to have Anyrail, can you take about 2 days and post a very, very clear drawing, precisely to scale, with every obstacle, window, door and so forth clearly drawn out?  Take the time to go down there with a tape measure and put everything in its proper place, like you seem to have done with the washer and the sink.  Are the walls in the lower right really tapered, and do they really extend beyond the intersection?  If you've got an area, like the furnace and the water heater area where you really can't build layout, then it's ok to block it off, but you COULD extend staging or something under the stairs, couldn't you?  If you've already built benchwork (I hope not, with your design in such a state of flux), put that in, too. Put the exterior walls in, too.

Here's an example of something I threw together (using Anyrail) based on what one of our members said he was looking for.

If you can put something that detailed together, people can give you some really constructive advice, but really, right now, no one can do much of anything with the barrage of half-developed, poorly expressed ideas that are being thrown out right now.

Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford

"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford

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Posted by Michael6792 on Saturday, January 22, 2011 10:44 PM

CTValleyRR

Having read this entire thread and looked at some of the advice offered the OP, as well as his responses to suggestions and criticism, I'm probably a real idiot for signing on to a thread started by someone who seems to be proud to ba called Antagonist.

However, Antagonist, I have to say that I still have no idea what you're trying to do with your layout and what your real limitations and ideas are.  You also seem to be in a huge hurry.  Not only are you in too much of a hurry to type clearly, but you also don't seem to want to take the time to think through your answers.

Since you seem to have Anyrail, can you take about 2 days and post a very, very clear drawing, precisely to scale, with every obstacle, window, door and so forth clearly drawn out?  Take the time to go down there with a tape measure and put everything in its proper place, like you seem to have done with the washer and the sink.  Are the walls in the lower right really tapered, and do they really extend beyond the intersection?  If you've got an area, like the furnace and the water heater area where you really can't build layout, then it's ok to block it off, but you COULD extend staging or something under the stairs, couldn't you?  If you've already built benchwork (I hope not, with your design in such a state of flux), put that in, too. Put the exterior walls in, too.

Here's an example of something I threw together (using Anyrail) based on what one of our members said he was looking for.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa25/bmanfull63/DennySample1.jpg

If you can put something that detailed together, people can give you some really constructive advice, but really, right now, no one can do much of anything with the barrage of half-developed, poorly expressed ideas that are being thrown out right now.

Not trying to steal anyone's thread, but I like what you have here & it's close to the size room I have available. Would you mind if I based my layout off of it?

Michael

Never attempt anything you don't want to explain to the EMT

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Posted by Antag2002 on Saturday, January 22, 2011 10:59 PM

CTValleyRR

Having read this entire thread and looked at some of the advice offered the OP, as well as his responses to suggestions and criticism, I'm probably a real idiot for signing on to a thread started by someone who seems to be proud to ba called Antagonist.

However, Antagonist, I have to say that I still have no idea what you're trying to do with your layout and what your real limitations and ideas are.  You also seem to be in a huge hurry.  Not only are you in too much of a hurry to type clearly, but you also don't seem to want to take the time to think through your answers.

Since you seem to have Anyrail, can you take about 2 days and post a very, very clear drawing, precisely to scale, with every obstacle, window, door and so forth clearly drawn out?  Take the time to go down there with a tape measure and put everything in its proper place, like you seem to have done with the washer and the sink.  Are the walls in the lower right really tapered, and do they really extend beyond the intersection?  If you've got an area, like the furnace and the water heater area where you really can't build layout, then it's ok to block it off, but you COULD extend staging or something under the stairs, couldn't you?  If you've already built benchwork (I hope not, with your design in such a state of flux), put that in, too. Put the exterior walls in, too.

Here's an example of something I threw together (using Anyrail) based on what one of our members said he was looking for.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa25/bmanfull63/DennySample1.jpg

If you can put something that detailed together, people can give you some really constructive advice, but really, right now, no one can do much of anything with the barrage of half-developed, poorly expressed ideas that are being thrown out right now.



See that to me is a post worth something. You may have got that shot in on the chin but then went on to use intelligence.

 when someone comes on and says, well thats crap are you retarded?. and that is the post yes i get angry. as for what i want i want industries such as produce, livestock, boxed goods, equipment such as tractors and the like .

I plan on having me and at least three friends running this layout.
I want a staging yard a classification yard and industries to serve by the railroad .
My wife wants continuous running so she can turn the trains on and watch it while doing laundry.
and she want a town so she can build the buildings for it.
 So any suggestions?
oh wait you made one and i will work on it.
the drawing of the basement

i will take the time on monday and do just that make a detailed drawing of my basement.

I have on on graph paper but putting it on the computer i have a hard time with.
Anywho

take care

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Posted by Paulus Jas on Sunday, January 23, 2011 2:03 AM

hi,

the fact is you had pretty accurate drawings of your basement, you removed them from your thread. The last drawing is crap indeed, i have been looking back in vain to find the originals.

The list of requirements is clear, though a discussion about the radius is a must. The length of the longest piece of equipment you want to run is important. From previous information IMAO a 30" radius , give or take a few inches, and the use of #6 switches are possible. 

Since we are grown up man, i do not prefer to talk with a guy with no name.

Paul

BTW Michael, i do not think the layout you like so much is well designed, start an own thread with that one as a base, and i could give you some concerns.

 

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Posted by Michael6792 on Sunday, January 23, 2011 6:13 AM

Paulus Jas

hi,

the fact is you had pretty accurate drawings of your basement, you removed them from your thread. The last drawing is crap indeed, i have been looking back in vain to find the originals.

The list of requirements is clear, though a discussion about the radius is a must. The length of the longest piece of equipment you want to run is important. From previous information IMAO a 30" radius , give or take a few inches, and the use of #6 switches are possible. 

Since we are grown up man, i do not prefer to talk with a guy with no name.

Paul

BTW Michael, i do not think the layout you like so much is well designed, start an own thread with that one as a base, and i could give you some concerns.

 

It's not perfect & I realize that, but it's a place to start which is more than I had before. There will also need to be some modifications to fit my space but the first thing I need to do is make a detailed drawing of my space available. See, I'm learning...lol

Michael

Never attempt anything you don't want to explain to the EMT

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, January 23, 2011 8:20 AM

Michael6792

 Paulus Jas:

hi,

the fact is you had pretty accurate drawings of your basement, you removed them from your thread. The last drawing is crap indeed, i have been looking back in vain to find the originals.

The list of requirements is clear, though a discussion about the radius is a must. The length of the longest piece of equipment you want to run is important. From previous information IMAO a 30" radius , give or take a few inches, and the use of #6 switches are possible. 

Since we are grown up man, i do not prefer to talk with a guy with no name.

Paul

BTW Michael, i do not think the layout you like so much is well designed, start an own thread with that one as a base, and i could give you some concerns.

 

 

It's not perfect & I realize that, but it's a place to start which is more than I had before. There will also need to be some modifications to fit my space but the first thing I need to do is make a detailed drawing of my space available. See, I'm learning...lol

In fairness to CTValleyRR who published the drawing that he did on AnyRail, he did indicate that, "Here's an example of something I threw together".

Rich

Alton Junction

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