sorry but end of the line.

[Wes Whitmore]

Lionroar,

Thanks for all of the effort you put into that post for me.  That was a lot of work getting all of the links for me.  I understand so much better now.  You cleared up the operation for me on the prototypical world.  I assume that you could do the same thing in the modeling world with switches, or DCC so you can have voltage on all sections of the track in the house and just pick the engine you want to use?  I would assume DCC would be the easiest, but maybe not as fun to flip the switch to power the stall that the loco on the turntable is about to enter.

Is there a place that I can find general examples of how you guys move around your trains through the train yards to store cars on certain rails, decouple selective cars, move over to another rail and pick up certain cars, and so on?  The operations are where I could really use some guidence on.  You can do it all remotely with buttons and switches, and not directly use your hands, right?  Maybe not, but that sounds like how I would want to do it.

Wes

[Anonymous]

Lionroar,

Thanks for all of the effort you put into that post for me.  That was a lot of work getting all of the links for me.  I understand so much better now.  You cleared up the operation for me on the prototypical world.  I assume that you could do the same thing in the modeling world with switches, or DCC so you can have voltage on all sections of the track in the house and just pick the engine you want to use?  I would assume DCC would be the easiest, but maybe not as fun to flip the switch to power the stall that the loco on the turntable is about to enter.

Is there a place that I can find general examples of how you guys move around your trains through the train yards to store cars on certain rails, decouple selective cars, move over to another rail and pick up certain cars, and so on?  The operations are where I could really use some guidence on.  You can do it all remotely with buttons and switches, and not directly use your hands, right?  Maybe not, but that sounds like how I would want to do it.

Wes

I don't know of anything providing examples... What I have done is simply hang out on an overlook and watch the train yard!  Take some pictures and video, it helps.  I have done a combination of hand movement and switcher movement.  TMCC and DCS with the coil couplers is the easiest way to move cars around a yard, you really need the entire yard to be powered as one block or you will run into the 'crossing of blocks' problem that lionelsoni is constantly preaching about!  And it makes it easier to move around the yard!

BTW - One of the large layouts I visited a few years ago had a yard set up on 3 sheets of ply!  One of the largest yards I've seen modeled.  They had enough room for 3 guys to jockey switchers around!  That was very impressive.  Their 4 mainlines ran right through the yard as well, right down the middle.  So you would have 3 switchers AND 4 mainline trains going through the yard!  Talk about complex!

Oh and the post - it didn't take very long.  Roundhouses and Turntables have been a passion of mine since I moved to the Pittsburgh area in 1976 and first saw the Conway railyard!  I am one of those oddballs that could actually create an entire yard and just jockey switchers and cars around all day long.

There used to be a magazine that had a 'switcher' test every month, I think it was Trains, but am not sure.  They would give you a sample track with cars each lettered and numbered.  You had one switcher and had to reorganize the cars so they were lined up for the engines to come and retrieve them for hauling... those were really fun!

OMG!  I am a geek! 

[Wes Whitmore]

That would be inpressive, and confusing...

 I was born in 76.

So I should really consider DCC then.  I didn't know people were putting electronic couplers on cars too.  That must be the solution to hands off uncoupling, unless they are really good at lining up an uncoupling track, which I haven't used.  I need to get to some layouts and see how they do it.  I would like to have a large yard, but unless I do it in N scale, it isn't going to happen!

Thanks again,

Wes

[daan]

As to switching cars around, I've seen a couple of layouts which used a card system. Each boxcar had an envelope with it's name on it and there where cards with a load for them written on it. For example, a boxcar had a load of bananas from the harbour which needed to go to the grocery shop, another car had machinery parts from the harbour to the engine workshop, a tankcar picking up load of oil for the fueling area etc. You have to pick up the cars from a yard, switch them to the places where they need to be loaded and then pick them up again. Drive a few rounds across the layout and then switch them to the places they needed to unload. After that the cars had to be taken back to the switchyard.

Before the game starts, you pick a few cards with a purpose out of the box with possibilities and you choose cars you'll need for the purpose. Then put the cards in the envelopes belonging to the cars and start the game.

You can make a nice game out of it which I'm also trying to figure out. Though my layout is far smaller it does have a few spurs for factory's and a small harbour. I like the idea of having a direction and a purpose for the train, which is created by those cards. I don't know exactly how the game is played, but I'll figure out a way to be able to use it. May be someone else knows how that works?

[lionelsoni]

I started with uncouplers on my yard tracks.  But by the time I rebuilt and doubled the yard size, I had figured out how to do without them.  I put a single uncoupler in the yard lead, with a turnout upstream of that leading to a bumper.  So, when I want to shove only part of a cut of cars into a yard track, I open the coupler closer to the locomotive to uncouple at the break, then shove that open coupler into the bumper to close it.  Then back to the yard lead, where I can shove the uncoupled cars, with couplers closed, into the yard track and pull back out with only the remaining cars.

I could use the same uncoupler for a locomotive's coupler to put the entire cut into a yard track; but I have modified many of my locomotives, including the switchers, for uncoupling on command.  I have a little circuit that remembers when a significant track voltage has been present for a while, while the locomotive is in neutral.  Then the next time the locomotive starts up, the couplers open.  So I can shove cars into a yard track (or a siding), stop, turn up the track voltage for about five seconds, then turn it off and back on to go the other direction, whereupon the locomotive's couplers open, leaving the cars behind.  To keep from opening the couplers accidentally when intending simply to reverse, I keep the voltage low in neutral and don't stay in neutral very long.

My impression of prototype yard design is that it is desirable to route the main lines outside and around the yard, so that yard activities don't interfere with through traffic.  A double-track main line can be split with one track on each side of the yard.  A proper yard should have classification tracks, which can be single ended, and some double-ended tracks for arrivals and departures, as well as specialized tracks for storing locomotives, cabooses, bad-order cars, etc.  I have 5 short storage tracks near the yard lead; and half of my 8 main-yard tracks are double-ended, with 2 of them connecting to each of the main lines, which run on either side of the entire area.

[Wes Whitmore]

I have so much to learn, Soni.

Hopefully whatever i do, it's usable. 

Wes

[thatboy37]

I started with uncouplers on my yard tracks.  But by the time I rebuilt and doubled the yard size, I had figured out how to do without them.  I put a single uncoupler in the yard lead, with a turnout upstream of that leading to a bumper.  So, when I want to shove only part of a cut of cars into a yard track, I open the coupler closer to the locomotive to uncouple at the break, then shove that open coupler into the bumper to close it.  Then back to the yard lead, where I can shove the uncoupled cars, with couplers closed, into the yard track and pull back out with only the remaining cars.

I could use the same uncoupler for a locomotive's coupler to put the entire cut into a yard track; but I have modified many of my locomotives, including the switchers, for uncoupling on command.  I have a little circuit that remembers when a significant track voltage has been present for a while, while the locomotive is in neutral.  Then the next time the locomotive starts up, the couplers open.  So I can shove cars into a yard track (or a siding), stop, turn up the track voltage for about five seconds, then turn it off and back on to go the other direction, whereupon the locomotive's couplers open, leaving the cars behind.  To keep from opening the couplers accidentally when intending simply to reverse, I keep the voltage low in neutral and don't stay in neutral very long.

My impression of prototype yard design is that it is desirable to route the main lines outside and around the yard, so that yard activities don't interfere with through traffic.  A double-track main line can be split with one track on each side of the yard.  A proper yard should have classification tracks, which can be single ended, and some double-ended tracks for arrivals and departures, as well as specialized tracks for storing locomotives, cabooses, bad-order cars, etc.  I have 5 short storage tracks near the yard lead; and half of my 8 main-yard tracks are double-ended, with 2 of them connecting to each of the main lines, which run on either side of the entire area.

 

do you have any pics to show of your yard would love to see them

[daan]

@Lionelsony; clever idea with the couplers!

[lionelsoni]

I sent a .jpg file to Reggie and asked him to post it, if he can.

[thatboy37]

I sent a .jpg file to Reggie and asked him to post it, if he can.

 

did you send it to my email, my email is [e-mail]

[lionelsoni]

I did now!  I screwed up and didn't notice that your e-mail address was already available.  So I actually sent you a message through the forum and promptly forgot that that was all I had done!

[thatboy37]

hope this works 

 

i like it alot. i like the way you got all the different spurs running off the mainline, and into different industries. maybe once i get all my track layed, wired, and running right. you can help me plan my industries and maybe we can put a building in honor of you on the layout.

here it is sorry took so long

[Anonymous]

All I see is an red 'X'... you need to save the image on an image host and post from there.

Brent

[thatboy37]

what about now

[Anonymous]

that works!

[thatboy37]

the pic got cut off a little at the bottom, but there is actually a mainline that runs right where the pic cut off at the bottom sorry for that

[HopperSJ]

You got some serious grades there, but it looks like you got the muscle in motive power to get it done.

 Reggie, just wanted to followup on Redneck (am I really agreeing with him?) Anyway, you probably have thought of this, but I wanted to share my "limitted" experience. I have finished laying my track on my smaller layout and was careful not to use anything greater than a 3.5% grade. The trains handle it all just fine (never strain to get up), but they do need constant attention. I am running conventional power and I can't leave the controls when the trains are on the outer loop because it goes up and down the grade. I need to rev up and throttle back too much. I love my layout plan, but wish I knew how the trains would react to the grade. I might have done it differently.

This may not be an issue with TMCC and cruise control and your grades may not be as steep as they look in the pics, but I thought I would mention it. Better to consider it now, than when you are six months down the line (like me!).

[Wes Whitmore]

It's a pretty small picture.  I tried saving it and zooming, but them it gets blurry.  i can sorta make it out though. What are you making all of these great track plans with?  It's awesome.

Do you have any real pictures of the overhead layout.  I'm sure not the whole thing, since it looks pretty big.

Thanks,
Wes

[thatboy37]

You got some serious grades there, but it looks like you got the muscle in motive power to get it done.

 Reggie, just wanted to followup on Redneck (am I really agreeing with him?) Anyway, you probably have thought of this, but I wanted to share my "limitted" experience. I have finished laying my track on my smaller layout and was careful not to use anything greater than a 3.5% grade. The trains handle it all just fine (never strain to get up), but they do need constant attention. I am running conventional power and I can't leave the controls when the trains are on the outer loop because it goes up and down the grade. I need to rev up and throttle back too much. I love my layout plan, but wish I knew how the trains would react to the grade. I might have done it differently.

This may not be an issue with TMCC and cruise control and your grades may not be as steep as they look in the pics, but I thought I would mention it. Better to consider it now, than when you are six months down the line (like me!).

 

well it has been thought out it just looks steep because of the way i took the pic. but the highest point on the incline is 7 inches. so i gave it a nice 233 inches to get from 0 inches to 7 inches. i took the advice of the frank53 and a couple of other guys and they said that should be a nice generous rise to where it want put a strain on the engines. they also gave me the equation to figure out how much room it would take to get a nice incline and the highest point is 7 inches. the grade is 3% if i'm not mistaking. so i'm gone take their advice and go with a rise and run to 7 inches high in 233 inches. i hope they wouldn't steer me wrong as everytime i've asked for advice they came through and the problem was solved. so the advice they gave me i'm going to follow as i'm kind of new to this building a layout. so again to all who have helped me along this process to get me to the point where i am now THANKS THANKS THANKS and THANKS again for all the great advice.

[lionelsoni]

It's a Q-Basic program that I wrote myself, Wes.  It wouldn't be very user-friendly for anyone else, since the layout design is embedded in the program itself as a string of subroutine calls; but I like being able to tinker with the design process at the very lowest level.

The overhead layout is actually a very simple single-track rectangle, with the O72-O27-O72 spirals in the corners.  It, like the main layout, is against the walls of the room; so it has the same outside dimensions.

Thanks for posting it, Reggie.

The large white and brown rectangles are a desk and workbench protruding from under the layout.  Only one of the bascule bridges shown is in place.  The other has a liftout plank filling in for it for now.

[thatboy37]

i finished laying down cork for mainline 4 that goes up to level 2 and will connect to mainline 5.  i'm seeing a total of 5 mainlines thus far and the 5th one's radius being 63 the smallest or i can add one more making six but the radius will be 54 to make it seven. where the polar express will go from level 1 to 3 and be the only train to go to the level 3, as it will disappear and appear on all levels via its own track powered by a cw80. also do you think that will be enough power to power the whole loop for the polar express as long as i have feeders every 6 feet, or being that it is less power and alot of track making up this loop, should i go with a 180 power house brick. dont have many pics as my switches haven't came in yet. but what i'm doing is building my 2nd and 3rd level which are going up and in. i will post a track plan later as i have kind of came up with a core track plan later but it is not definite

[thatboy37]

here's the track plan. hope the pics show up.

this 1st pic shows both levels, and the second level is the bold scribbly lines. it's on top of level one. also cut off on the page the bottom mainline which connects to the yard and a switch that connects that mainline to the roundhouse.

 

just the table configuration of what it's made of. the black on this pic is cut out on the layout.

 

here's just some more work i've done to the layout added the mainline 4 going up to the second level 

 

just one of my custom made braces to support the second level, and  just enough clearance for my tallest rolling stockand placed just right so that the overhang from the longest rolling stock clears it.

 

me standing inside one of the holes that are cut out of the layout 

[thatboy37]

is there a safe way to cut ross switches without bending or damaging to switches. also do you guys recommend cutting them. reason i'm asking is i have to cut 2 switches in my yard to complete it. got more pics will post later.

[otftch]

Just get out your handy dremel. Your layout looks great.

                                                                            Ed

[Anonymous]

Very nice layout!  I can't wait to see even more progress!  Incredible, just incredible.

[Anonymous]

Reggie,
I know this isn't a good time to point this out, but I just noticed your support legs do not have any bracing (angle braces from the legs to the framing), you may want to add some to add additional strength.  You don't have much weight on the framing and legs right now, but once you get further along, or have to get on the benchwork, you could have problems!

BTW - looking good as usual, and congrats again on your CDL!

Brent

[Wes Whitmore]

So what are your plans for the elevated track?  Are you going to connect the roadbed with the bench to make it look like the train is up on the top of a hill, or is it all going to be elevated like an E-train with nothing but exposed track supports?  I'm curious to see how people blend elevated rails into the rest of the layout.

Thanks,
Wes

[thatboy37]

dont know how i'm going to blend it all in yet. will havw to wait till  get all th track down and layed. maybe you guys can give me some suggestions. as scenery i have not tied to do yet.

the framing is pretty sturdy now as i have 5 - 2x4's per sheet of plywood supporting it. plus all the tables are joined together to add even a little more support. i will figure out sooner or later how i'm going to add some additional support.

[Buckeye Riveter]

Looking good!  I love watching layouts like yours being built.  In fact, three years ago I saw something on a new layout that I copied and put on mine.

[wrmcclellan]

Reggie - nice job!