when i first started laying the track i didnt cut the ends off i just jioned the tracks together add kept going but i the mean time while i was trying to put the end of the rail in the tie's of the opposing piece of track it was cutting my hands a little. so something hit me you have a dremmal why dont you use it to cut the track even then but the end of the new piece of track and go from there i say that took maybe ten minutes off laying a piece of track. i think the extra pieces that i cut off i will use as a junk pile af rails on the layout somewhere. i'm not throing anything away as i found out you might beable to use it on the layout somewhere. i was patient the first night i layed track i layed 16 pieces no cutting the track, cutting my hand. i looked at my hands and thought what have i gotten myself into but my mind started thinking and low and behold my dremmal came into play and i was off. just remember patients is a virtue.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
ChiefEagles wrote:Wow! A roundhouse. Now tha ttakes up a lot of room. Glad you got it in yours. Keep up the good work.
i will try to keep up the good work. these are the last pics of the layout as i have gotten to this point and cant work any more until the rest of the switches that i ordered come in. have any of you guys been told by ross that you can only order 2 switches at a time?
now in the time that it takes for the rest of the switches to get in i think i'm going to do a little wiring and soldering of the wires to the track hope you like.
on these 2 pics below the end of the switches cant be connected to the curves at the top of the pic until the rest of the switches get in.
on this pic below the two tracks to the left cant be finished until the rest of my switches get in
here's my nephew playing with my non powered trains on the track that i have completed he also has a favorite engine and road name. my sd70mac cn.
this is all for now just an update of my progress up to this point. cant finish track until rest of track and track pins get in. now i have to wait patiently for my supplies to finish my layout.
Reggie,
It looks great. Nice progress!
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.
thatboy37,That is one heck of an impressive layout! It is a 'U' or closed loop 'O'?I've been playing around with various configurations for my big layout - which I can't fully design until the new house is built - but I am leaning toward an 'E' configuration... depending on the room size I may be able to get the 'E' plus a decent sized yard, that depends in the depth of the room and if I can configure that track to align with the cabinets. I like the roundhouse! Is that the Atlas Roundtable and Roundhouse?I've been looking at this combo...http://www.bowser-trains.com/oscale/turntables/turntables.htm (32" version)If I can swing it I'll probably go with a 5 stall roundhouse and maybe 4 or 5 additional sidings for engine storage.
rr redneck - the bug has bitten him and bit him hard he has the thomas o scale set and plenty of the kids thomas stuff to.
lionroar88 wrote: thatboy37,That is one heck of an impressive layout! It is a 'U' or closed loop 'O'?I've been playing around with various configurations for my big layout - which I can't fully design until the new house is built - but I am leaning toward an 'E' configuration... depending on the room size I may be able to get the 'E' plus a decent sized yard, that depends in the depth of the room and if I can configure that track to align with the cabinets. I like the roundhouse! Is that the Atlas Roundtable and Roundhouse?I've been looking at this combo...http://www.bowser-trains.com/oscale/turntables/turntables.htm (32" version)If I can swing it I'll probably go with a 5 stall roundhouse and maybe 4 or 5 additional sidings for engine storage.
it is a 4 track closed loop with all four tracks going from track 1 to 4 via the yard from either end. i like that round house you attached with the photo. started to get that but i already had this one so why let it go to waste plus it mates up to the gargraves track easily. if you do get that round house please make sure you post some pics of it would like to see it. it might make me take mine up and go with the one you are talking about getting. thanks for the compliment.
thatboy37 wrote: rr redneck - the bug has bitten him and bit him hard he has the thomas o scale set and plenty of the kids thomas stuff to. lionroar88 wrote: thatboy37,That is one heck of an impressive layout! It is a 'U' or closed loop 'O'?I've been playing around with various configurations for my big layout - which I can't fully design until the new house is built - but I am leaning toward an 'E' configuration... depending on the room size I may be able to get the 'E' plus a decent sized yard, that depends in the depth of the room and if I can configure that track to align with the cabinets. I like the roundhouse! Is that the Atlas Roundtable and Roundhouse?I've been looking at this combo...http://www.bowser-trains.com/oscale/turntables/turntables.htm (32" version)If I can swing it I'll probably go with a 5 stall roundhouse and maybe 4 or 5 additional sidings for engine storage.it is a 4 track closed loop with all four tracks going from track 1 to 4 via the yard. i like that round house you attached with the photo. started to get that but i already had this one so why let it go to waste plus it mates up to the gargraves track easily. if you do get that round house please make sure you post some pics of it would like to see it. it might make me take mine up and go with the one you are talking about getting. thanks for the compliment.
it is a 4 track closed loop with all four tracks going from track 1 to 4 via the yard. i like that round house you attached with the photo. started to get that but i already had this one so why let it go to waste plus it mates up to the gargraves track easily. if you do get that round house please make sure you post some pics of it would like to see it. it might make me take mine up and go with the one you are talking about getting. thanks for the compliment.
Of course I may also go the scratch built route... really depends on how much room I have if I go with a roundhouse or not. I'm considering the scratch built route because I have this itch to build something really different on the train layout. All the roundhouses I've seen have been plastic and I'm not thrilled with that... a scratch built one out of some balsa or bass wood would really add a nice touch to it!
lionroar88 wrote: thatboy37 wrote: rr redneck - the bug has bitten him and bit him hard he has the thomas o scale set and plenty of the kids thomas stuff to. lionroar88 wrote: thatboy37,That is one heck of an impressive layout! It is a 'U' or closed loop 'O'?I've been playing around with various configurations for my big layout - which I can't fully design until the new house is built - but I am leaning toward an 'E' configuration... depending on the room size I may be able to get the 'E' plus a decent sized yard, that depends in the depth of the room and if I can configure that track to align with the cabinets. I like the roundhouse! Is that the Atlas Roundtable and Roundhouse?I've been looking at this combo...http://www.bowser-trains.com/oscale/turntables/turntables.htm (32" version)If I can swing it I'll probably go with a 5 stall roundhouse and maybe 4 or 5 additional sidings for engine storage.it is a 4 track closed loop with all four tracks going from track 1 to 4 via the yard. i like that round house you attached with the photo. started to get that but i already had this one so why let it go to waste plus it mates up to the gargraves track easily. if you do get that round house please make sure you post some pics of it would like to see it. it might make me take mine up and go with the one you are talking about getting. thanks for the compliment.Of course I may also go the scratch built route... really depends on how much room I have if I go with a roundhouse or not. I'm considering the scratch built route because I have this itch to build something really different on the train layout. All the roundhouses I've seen have been plastic and I'm not thrilled with that... a scratch built one out of some balsa or bass wood would really add a nice touch to it!
i might do it later on down the road that is scratchbuild. i'm not really good at scernery yet as i have never done it.
here's 18 pics of my lastest addition didn't know which ones to post so i posted all of them. hope you like
Those gentle curves look great! and the switching area looks impressive! Really nice. For the scenery I have a few suggestions. I've started doing the ground area and the mountains on my layout. The way to build is easy, just cut out vertical stands from wood where the mountains should be, then cover then with a small mesh chicken wire fencing. Then ask the misses for some old bedsheets and drench them in very liquid plaster. It works better when the sheets are cut in 1ft x 1ft squares and are moist before soaking them in the plaster. After it has dried, apply a mixture of wallpaint (latex) with lots of sand and let it dry. Afterwards you can add stones and bushes or anything else you like. The structure is lightweight but solid and the looks are very good thanks to the sand, which dulls the surface and gives it a natural look.
Phase 1: making wooden substructure
Phase 2: covering it with small mesh chickenwire fencing
Phase 3, plastering the wire structure with bedsheets soaked in plaster.
Phase 4, apply mixture of (in my case colored) latex paint with sand.
Phase 5, add stones and bushes etc, whatever you like. The latex/sand mixture can be used as glue, you can apply multiple layers or layers as thick as 1/2" at once. It's ideal to cover up the high tubular tracks or gaps in the layoutsections.
And most of all, just try whatever you feel is worth trying and see what the results are. Scenery is a huge part of the fun that is called layout building.
Reggie: First of all, Happy New Year. I have been following your progress from the start and am impressed. You must have a real "gem" for a bride to let you spend so much time on your layout. Keep up the great work and keep us posted.
PS. I have learned a lot from the 'tips' these guys on the forum have given to you and appreciate this learning experience.
traindaddy1 wrote: Reggie: First of all, Happy New Year. I have been following your progress from the start and am impressed. You must have a real "gem" for a bride to let you spend so much time on your layout. Keep up the great work and keep us posted.PS. I have learned a lot from the 'tips' these guys on the forum have given to you and appreciate this learning experience.
well same to you on the happy new year. well she has said something once before but really never went any farther than when are you coming to bed. i said when i get finished with this last part which turns out to be like 3 or 4 in the morning. she really doesnt care as long as she knows t where i'm at and i'm not out in the streets or clubs and in harms way. she told me she would rather have me at home in the trainroom instead of in the club's with a female in my face. which i could understand greatly. oh yeah she's a gem and a keeper. because she supports me in this hobby and actually tells me to buy what i like and want.
thatboy37 wrote:daan: thats somw nice work you have there, and i like the idea of cutting the boards and placing chicken wire on it. thats quite interesting. i was planning on using card board boxes, cutting them into strips, and instead of using chicken wire or the cloth they sale in the hobby shop that come in the rolls that you unroll an cut into small sheets. i'm going to use coffee filters and do the same process you said do with the sheet with the coffee filters. anyways that part of the layout is not in the near future as i have not got the rest of my switches yet from ross, finished lay track, wiring the track, running trains for at least 3 or 4 monthes to make sure they are running as close to perfect as they can run on the track, then ballasting the track. who knows by the time i get to that point i might have changed my mind and decided to go with something different. if i do i will let you know. again nice work you have done this far on your layout. keep it up.
The cardboard strips is the classical method, but I found it to be too unstable when applying the wet sheets of plaster. The cardboard sucks up the water out of the wet sheets and gets soft. I've had a few occasions where my freshly built mountain collapsed under it's own wheight because of the cardboard getting wet. Chickenwire doesn't have that, but be sure to use a version which doesn't rust, because plaster is agressive. There is also an aluminium meshwire used in windows to keep the flies out, that has a very small mesh and can be used to apply a thicker plaster directly without cloth, but that is not as solid as with the use of sheets and due to the very thick layer of plaster a lot heavier.
Trying to update my avatar since 2020
MartyE and Kodi the Husky Dog! ( 3/31/90-9/28/04 ) www.MartyE.com My O Gauge Web Page and Home of Kodiak Junction!
MartyE wrote:I don't know if this has been mentioned but when using wire mesh or chicken wire, do yourself a favor and attach a ground strap to it before finishing. This way if you run TMCC or thinking about adding it you can attach the ground strap to an earth ground if you have any TMCC signal issues.
That is very good advice, Marty.
WOW, you are doing a great job. Wish I had that much space. Keep up the good work.
First of all, I love the fact that your layout is so big that you cant fit the whole thing in one picture.
Second thing is, I know that you have mentioned that you have 4 main lines that all can connect via the yard area, (which looks amazing in the pics youve posted). I couldnt tell from the pics ( I get lost on your layout since its so big) but, Im assuming that the 4 mainlines dont have to go through the yard? Like they can bypass it on the loop? That way you can have 4 locos running at once?
Third thing is, are you planning on doing any inner loops? Not that it matters i was just wondering. With 4 main lines so big it dosnet really seem necessary. But youve got the room.
Fourth, Your gettin alot of great advice from these guys on everything. It is interesting to see the many different ways they do scenery. Im not an expert by any means (im finding out), but I worry about putting anything on the layout other than track before doing scenery cause its soo messy at least for me. Maybe I should be more careful. I guess you have to set everything up so as to make space for it, but pull it off and do the foam/plaster mess and put it back where it belongs. Some of these guys have posted some really good stuff. I forget who it was that had the pics of his 2" pink foam layout (maybe Buckeye?) but it looked great! I suppose that plaster may be the way to go since your layout is so big, but then again, maybe a combination. Also, youve got so much flat ground to cover, you might wanna consider stapling that green paper "grass" paper they sell for tabletop layouts down on the plywood, you know, cut it to fit around your tracks, you dont have to worry about getting too close to the track, your ballast will cover the transition. (thats what we did on the pics i posted way back) The grass paper is easy to doctor up, it gives you a starting point vs plywood.
Just some thoughts. Thats all I can think of right now.
Keep the pics coming!
We are looking at the future cover of CTT!
thatboy,Do you have a trackplan? Was wondering if you are working off a print-out or just winging it?If you have a trackplan, can you post it so we can see how things are progressing in the different areas?I am going to be building a rather large layout in the near future (as soon as we build the new house, move in, and I claim my space)! I moved the Christmas layout to the basement and have been messing around with different configurations for next year... have the plan done now, so the wife informs me that I have to stop tinkering with the trains and focus on fixing up the house to get it on the market! But in consideration of the big layout, I guess I can make do. BTW - I have a 6% grade on the Christmas layout... sent the Christmas 4-4-0, Berk, and docksider around the loop pulling the 3 new x-mas passenger cars, each pulled them with no problems! I was worried about the 4-4-0 because it is such a light-weight engine, but it pulled those cars just like its heavier brothers!!!
Like the amusement park! That roller-coaster is awesome! First layout I've seen with an amusement park AND a roundhouse!!! That is some awesome space!
Question - 2nd to last pic, what is the accessory in the distance?
# 1 & 2: yes they can go from 1 to 4 via the yard or 4 to 1 via the yard in either direction. one of the trains will go through the yard but the other three will not. i still haven't gotten all my switches from ross. once i get those the pictures will be alot clearer and you will be able to see exactly where the switching will happen to get train 1 to line 4 or 4 to line 1.
# 3: line four will actually be the loop that goes up to level 2 and back down you can see the inclines thats i built for the rises in place a little farther up in the post. level 2 will havethe appereance of 2 trains being on that level running at once. you also can get from track 4 to track 5 via a few switches but i cant do anything until i get the switches. so you will see train four on level 2 and then turn around and see it on level 1. i think that i'm going to have to order the switches from ross instead of having my lhs order them for me and it takes forever to get them in, but i like doing business with my lhs owner as he gives me great deals on everything i buy. there probably want be any other lines on the bottom level as i'm building up and there will be 3 levels total. the 3rd level being the polar express, i hoping to make that level one of the ones that disappear for a long time and then reappear about 5 minutes later. i want that one train to bable to go from level 3 to level 1 on its own mainline. so you will see it on level one then disappear and you want see it until it gets back up to level 3 then you see it for a minute or 2 then back to level 1. hope you understand what i'm saying.
# 4: i greatly appreciate the advice as it has helped me in many ways, plus i wouldnt be this far along with my layout without the helpful advice these great guys on this forum have given me. the scenery part of the layout is the issue i will worry about once i get to that point, i don't know what i'm going to do as of yet with this aspect of the hobby. maybe i will get someone to come in and do it for me, once i have tried to do it and can't get it right. i have some type of idea but not quite sure yet. hope i can get some more great advice when i need it which i'm pretty sure that i will need once the time prevails. if i haven't said it to anybody thus far thanks for the advice and keep it coming, and if i have any advice to share which i will i will do the same.
will definitly post more pics as they come, but for now the progress is on hold until i get the switches. so please think of me as you guys get to work on your layouts as mine is at a stand still for now.
i want to be on the cover just as much as you guys are saying you see a future ctt cover story. so if the publishers are looking at this post please keep me in mind and dont book all the covers yet as i'm trying my best to do a layout to the standards that you guys require, but until now hope you like what i'm doing thus far.
lionroar88 wrote: Question - 2nd to last pic, what is the accessory in the distance?
it is a pedestrian walkover with scale speed sensor that the trains pass under/ or through. you hold the button down as the train passes under it and the speed reads out on an lcd screen that is provided the the accessory. the item # is 6- 14082 hope this answers your question.
lionroar88 wrote: thatboy,Do you have a trackplan? Was wondering if you are working off a print-out or just winging it?I am going to be building a rather large layout in the near future (as soon as we build the new house, move in, and I claim my space)! I moved the Christmas layout to the basement and have been messing around with different configurations for next year... have the plan done now, so the wife informs me that I have to stop tinkering with the trains and focus on fixing up the house to get it on the market! Like the amusement park! That roller-coaster is awesome! First layout I've seen with an amusement park AND a roundhouse!!! That is some awesome space!
thatboy,Do you have a trackplan? Was wondering if you are working off a print-out or just winging it?I am going to be building a rather large layout in the near future (as soon as we build the new house, move in, and I claim my space)! I moved the Christmas layout to the basement and have been messing around with different configurations for next year... have the plan done now, so the wife informs me that I have to stop tinkering with the trains and focus on fixing up the house to get it on the market!
#1 i'm just winging it. because i see something in a magazine that i like and want, or on the forum from you guys pics and i want to put it on my layout.
#2 congrats on the new house, and trainroom. please take the wifes advice on gettting the house on the market, because you messing around is only prolonging you getting to the new house. i think i know what you will do.
#3 that isn't all. there will also be a intermodal yard, try to get a full scale runway so i can put the airport and terminal (there will be a airport regardless though), a small town, drive-in theater, passenger pickup station for acella, passenger pickup for polar express, and maybe either football, or baseball field thats all for now
Awesome work there Reggie. You can obviously see that the GG/Ross combo is much better looking as compared to the FT you had. In good time that layout is gonna really be the best for the space and amount of trains that you have.
I have my dreams of having my ultimate layout, but unfortunately for now that is all it is, a dream. The lack of funds being my biggest barrier and not having a home nor space pretty much kills my dreams for a layout, and im pretty fed up with not having the funds to do anything trainwise.
Anyway, I got two books, one on wiring and benchwork so at least I can get educated on those ends. As for track I plan to go the GG/Ross combo myself, but no LHS in my area carries any of their track so i'll have to order online to get an idea of what the pieces look like in person and how it fits.
Keep up the good work Reggie and keep us updated with the progress of the layout. A big switching yard is very nice indeed. The big yard here in Grand Rapids I saw the other day was just filled with boxcars.....lots of ideas to embark on looking at the real railroads to get more an idea what I'd like to have for my model railroad. Gonna be a long process though.
I also like the roller coasters too.....I have a couple Knex sets that I may somewhat use in the future to complement my railroad...just have to wait and see.
Sorry to be a total rookie, but how does that train house work? Are they for storing Locos and engines only? Is the turn table rotatable remotely? Can whatever you store in there be brought through the yard or onto the mainline without actually touching it with your hands? Is the idea to have a small switcher round up all of the cars, and then pull the big loco out of the house and head out for the mainline? It's a great piece, and looks really great, I just wonder about general track operations, since I don't have much experience with how to "run a train" on a layout with more than just a couple of turnouts. I don't want to hijack your thread on the learning of basic train operations, but seeing that train house sparked some questions.
Thanks,Wes
TheTrainMaster wrote: Awesome work there Reggie. You can obviously see that the GG/Ross combo is much better looking as compared to the FT you had. In good time that layout is gonna really be the best for the space and amount of trains that you have. I have my dreams of having my ultimate layout, but unfortunately for now that is all it is, a dream. The lack of funds being my biggest barrier and not having a home nor space pretty much kills my dreams for a layout, and im pretty fed up with not having the funds to do anything trainwise. Anyway, I got two books, one on wiring and benchwork so at least I can get educated on those ends. As for track I plan to go the GG/Ross combo myself, but no LHS in my area carries any of their track so i'll have to order online to get an idea of what the pieces look like in person and how it fits. Keep up the good work Reggie and keep us updated with the progress of the layout. A big switching yard is very nice indeed. The big yard here in Grand Rapids I saw the other day was just filled with boxcars.....lots of ideas to embark on looking at the real railroads to get more an idea what I'd like to have for my model railroad. Gonna be a long process though.I also like the roller coasters too.....I have a couple Knex sets that I may somewhat use in the future to complement my railroad...just have to wait and see.
Wes Whitmore wrote: Sorry to be a total rookie, but how does that train house work? Are they for storing Locos and engines only? Is the turn table rotatable remotely? Can whatever you store in there be brought through the yard or onto the mainline without actually touching it with your hands? Is the idea to have a small switcher round up all of the cars, and then pull the big loco out of the house and head out for the mainline? It's a great piece, and looks really great, I just wonder about general track operations, since I don't have much experience with how to "run a train" on a layout with more than just a couple of turnouts. I don't want to hijack your thread on the learning of basic train operations, but seeing that train house sparked some questions.Thanks,Wes
http://leesome1226.tripod.com/Pictures/conwayturntablelocos.jpg
http://leesome1226.tripod.com/Pictures/crsd60ilocosconwaytable.jpg
http://leesome1226.tripod.com/Pictures/cr6510tableconway.jpg
This is an image of the Conway yard looking south from East Rochester. Freedom, PA is to the left and the Ohio River to the right. The ramp leads to Conway/Baden, PA. The yard is RARELY this empty! Typically the entire yard is full of cars.
http://leesome1226.tripod.com/Pictures/conwayyardempty.jpg
Hope this helps!
lionroar88 wrote: Wes Whitmore wrote: Sorry to be a total rookie, but how does that train house work? Are they for storing Locos and engines only? Is the turn table rotatable remotely? Can whatever you store in there be brought through the yard or onto the mainline without actually touching it with your hands? Is the idea to have a small switcher round up all of the cars, and then pull the big loco out of the house and head out for the mainline? It's a great piece, and looks really great, I just wonder about general track operations, since I don't have much experience with how to "run a train" on a layout with more than just a couple of turnouts. I don't want to hijack your thread on the learning of basic train operations, but seeing that train house sparked some questions.Thanks,WesWes,Reggie has the Atlas O Turntable and Roundhouse. These are the least expensive versions you will find. Earlier in the thread Reggie and I discussed different TT/RH combinations and the one I suggested (the Bowser) is the more expensive version. The Atlas is by far the easiest to incorporate into a layout.http://www.bowser-trains.com/oscale/turntables/turntables.htm - Bowser TT/RHhttp://www.wholesaletrains.com/OProducts2.asp?Scale=O&Item=151MISC - Atlas TT/RHThe Bowser requires a lot more work to get it done correctly, but their instructions are very clear and easy to follow (I don't own one, but I saw one at a trainshow a year or so ago and was able to read the instruction sheets).Operation:Roundhouses were used by larger railyards to perform maintenance on engines. They were very prevalent during the Steam Era, but some survived into the diesel era and some are around even today (there is a nice example in the Conway, PA railyard on the Norfolk Sounthern (old Conrail) line. The engine would head onto the TT, rotate so it was facing away from the RH stall it had been assigned, then backed into the stall for maintenance. Once maintenance was finished the engine would head back onto the TT, rotated to the track it had been assigned, then head out. Switchers were not used to move the engines around the yard.RH are bigger version of their single and double engine house brothers. They were typically used to work on larger engines, like the UP Big Boy, C&O Alleghenies, PRR Decopods, and SF Cabforwards, these longer engines also required an entension to the rear of the RH stall.TTs were also used, with and without RHs, to transfer engines from one track to another, this could reduce the size of the railyard and reduce the number of switches involved.Another twist would be the Transfer Table. These are straightline TTs that slide an engine from one track to another. Lionel actually made a Transfer Table and extensions a few years ago. There are some on eBay:http://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-350-TRANSFER-TABLE_W0QQitemZ180071479470QQihZ008QQcategoryZ4148QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemhttp://cgi.ebay.com/LIONEL-350-TRANSFER-TABLE-EXTENSION_W0QQitemZ180071482519QQihZ008QQcategoryZ4148QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemhttp://search.ebay.com/transfer-tablePics of surviving TTs/RHs:Conway, PA:Conway was home to the largest yard on the former PRR system and a major locomotive maintenance facility, and it remains an important yard today under Norfolk Southern. Back in 1973, however, the motive power was a little different than it was today. Witness PC C628 6308 taking a spin on the Conway roundhouse turntable on July 1, 1973. Photo by Dennis Bydash.http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/central/pc6308.jpghttp://leesome1226.tripod.com/Pictures/conwayturntablelocos.jpghttp://leesome1226.tripod.com/Pictures/crsd60ilocosconwaytable.jpghttp://leesome1226.tripod.com/Pictures/cr6510tableconway.jpgThis is an image of the Conway yard looking south from East Rochester. Freedom, PA is to the left and the Ohio River to the right. The ramp leads to Conway/Baden, PA. The yard is RARELY this empty! Typically the entire yard is full of cars.http://leesome1226.tripod.com/Pictures/conwayyardempty.jpgHope this helps!
thanks lionroar you said some stuff that i wouldn't have said and you said it a lot clearer.again thanks and wes i hope this helps.
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