Target is now selling Lionel Lines Train sets.

[mgmlodi]

Will Target repair Lionel trains, or sell StandardO items? When that happens Hobby shop owners may well be in Chapter 11

[underworld]

Good to see electric trains back in department stores!!!

 

underworld

[csxt30]

to the forum Bob !! Congratulations on your purchase & I believe you got a great deal & a nice starter set !! Hope you can locate your old set too, someday !!  Let us know how you like it when you do get it going !!

Thanks, John

[Anonymous]

I had seen the sets at Target but wasn't really ready to put out the $249.99 for one. My son is only three right now and I thought it might be a bit too early for him to play with. My daughter is six and would enjoy running the train but both kids together tend to fight over everything.

On a return trip to the store after Christmas they still had 3 sets on the shelf and they were marked down to $174.99. I figured this price was be about as good as I might ever see so I bought a set. I opened it up when I got home just to look it over and was very pleased with the set overall. I've boxed it up for now and stored it away out of sight so it'll be a surprise later. (I really wanted to run it and bring back those memories of the Lionel set I had as a kid but my better judgement took over and I packed it up. I wish I knew what happened to my old set, I can still smell the smoke. Maybe we'll wait just a few months instead of the whole year...)

In the meantime, I can start putting together some additional track and switches for a bigger layout when we set it up for the first time.

Bob

[Deputy]

 In the case of Target, at least they did promote the train set in their circular advertising.... something that hasn't happened for Lionel (or anyother major train maker) in many many years. Save for Jeff Cohen's (of K-Line) appearances on the Home Shopping Network promoting K-Line train sets.

We discussed this previously. We all had/have tons of common sense merchandising ideas for Lionel that are obvious to everyone interested in trains BUT Lionel. Things like putting the NASCAR sets and addons on the QVC program that does NASCAR diecasts. I don't know what idjit at Lionel is in charge of advertising, but I would sure put a lump of coal in his sock this year. If Lionel WANTS to sell their stuff, they have to AGGRESSIVELY merchandise it with a PLANNED merchandising program. How many times have we seen that new Wii ad and the ads for all those cartridge games on TV? HUNDREDS of TIMES is the answer. I dunno about everyone else, but anything I didn't send or ask for that I get in the mail, automatically goes in the "junk mail" catagory and heads straight for the garbage. Especially at this time of year. So an ad in the Target flyer would never be seen by me or anyone else that is sick of junk mail.

I think the simple fact is, Target and any other store is gonna advertise and display stuff based on how well it sold LAST YEAR or how big the demand is THIS year. Their bottom line is $$$, not trying to get toy trains into every household in the country. It's up to LIONEL to create the demand among the kids for their product. A few ads in a Target flyer just before Christmas or a quickly forgotten blurb/TV newspot are NOT going to cause any major boost in Lionel sales. Like anything else in the business world, you have to SPEND money to MAKE money.

Dep

 

[brianel027]

Sounds to me if the Lionel sets don't move, it might be as much due to store placement as anything else. Retailers have long known that placement of items is as much a key to selling them as is price.

Something I have seen other companies do with products and that Lionel might consider next time around - in light of a lack of a display layout - is some kind of promotional video/DVD showing the specific product and others in layout settings a beginning buyer might hope to reasonably attain. I know I have been in stores and seen small TV's playing videos promoting some kind of new product.

Since most of us older guys do remember those days of display layouts and know the effect they can have, seems to me some kind of promotional product video might be something of a modern answer to the display layout. Of course, nothing can replace the desire of the retailer. If they don't promote or place the products well, there's probably little that can be done. In the case of Target, at least they did promote the train set in their circular advertising.... something that hasn't happened for Lionel (or anyother major train maker) in many many years. Save for Jeff Cohen's (of K-Line) appearances on the Home Shopping Network promoting K-Line train sets.

[ChooChooMan2]

I was in Target last night and saw two sets.  Every time I have gone in there I have seen sets in stock.  Hopefully they are selling well.  When they were on sale a week or two ago they had a display of them on an end cap.

 

Jeff

[anjdevil2]

I've been to 2 Target here and have seen nothing!  I might be brave tomorrow, maybe on the 26th....

[Anonymous]

Theres 4 Target stores  near me and Ive been to 2. But I havent seen any train sets. Of course from the sounds of it I might have not looked in the right spot.  I havent asked any of the employees either.

[MartyE]

I have seen them at the store we visit.  There were 4 yesterday with one of them heading out the door.  The same Target has had 2 to none out before so they must be restocking at least at this location.

[jimhaleyscomet]

My target store has them on the bottom isle in the toy department.  They are still on the shelves (unless they have been purchased and re stocked).  Too bad they do not have room for a layout.  They would sell more that way.

 

Jim H 

[Deputy]

I'm not sure how this topic strayed from Lionel trains at Target to prototype railroad bridges and engineering, but in an effort to steer things back on course, I wonder how many folks have seen those Lionel sets still on Target shelves in these closing days before Christmas.

I haven't had a chance to visit my local Target in the past week or so, but I imagine others here have visited these stores in the frenetic final selling/buying period, so perhaps they can provide some insight. 

I was wondering the same thing. I have NO Target stores in my small town...just Wallyworld. And no Lionel or any other trains for sale there. I wonder if the stores themselves actually made any effort to put the trains out front were prospective buyers might see them, or concentrated on the latest Nintendo/Playstation displays at the expense of everything else?

Dep

[sessal]

A few weeks ago my local Target had two sets, stacked on top of one another, on the bottom shelf at the end of the toy aisle. They were turned that you could not see that the box contaioned a train set. (I don't know how many sets the store initially had.)

When I returned to Target this past Wednesday night, I could not find the sets. I was curious to know if they were sold or moved to a different location. Sure enough, they were stacked on the very top shelf, out of the normal line of sight, not in the toy aisle, but the aisle with some DVD players and other electronic gizmos. You would not see the sets if you were not looking for them.

My shopping is done, and I have no intention of returning to Target just to check on the status of the sets, at least until after Christmas.

Lou 

[pbjwilson]

The three Target stores near me didnt have them at all. Maybe because there are alot of hobby shops nearby. I asked at one store and the reply was, " We dont have anything like that".

But switching the topic again, the Target stores in my 'hood have toy soldiers made by "Forces of Valor". Really nice toy soldier sets with lots of extras. They also have really nice tanks and halftracks that go along with the sets. They are 1/32 scale.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure how this topic strayed from Lionel trains at Target to prototype railroad bridges and engineering, but in an effort to steer things back on course, I wonder how many folks have seen those Lionel sets still on Target shelves in these closing days before Christmas.

I haven't had a chance to visit my local Target in the past week or so, but I imagine others here have visited these stores in the frenetic final selling/buying period, so perhaps they can provide some insight. 

[laz 57]

Target has some pretty good Corgi diecast stuff too.

laz57

[Anonymous]

Drat!!! I took the dang bait again.

I still haven't learned that when certain people speak...NOBODY can disagree.

Dep

Dep, just do a bit of research before posting something like that... The reason train traffic East of the Alleghenies has dwindled is because all of the tunnels through the Appalachians are too short for double-stack intermodal trains.  Congress has just passed legislation to help the railways raise the roof on many, if not all, rail tunnels so they can accomodate double-stack intermodal trains.  The only one that I can remember that is not slated for raising is the CSX Tunnel under Baltimore - that would be nearly impossible to raise, lower maybe.  The first to be raised is on the Norfolk-Southern Line somewhere in West Virginia.

Any how, there have been numerous articles about this all over the web.

It is still cheaper, and faster to haul freight across the US in trains than it is via truck or ocean liner.  Ocean liners have to route through the Panama Canal (which it too narrow for modern intermodal ships), or they have to go all the way around South America... a trip that still takes over a month.

You are free to disagree with people, just do some research to back up what you are saying... especially when it is so easily refuted!

Lionroar88, has said some things that I am intimately familiar with since this last summer I was out working in the field on five bridge projects in Ohio that are directly related to the NS Heartland Project.  (Photos for your viewing pleasure are below.) The ORDC has put a little money into the $90,000,000 pot to increase clearances for the Ohio bridges.  

The tunnel clearance problem is in West Virginia. Needless to say, just lowering the floor of a tunnel to increase clearances can cause many other problems including the lowering of adjacent railroad bridge decks that then can affect the hydraulics of a stream.  Track lowering can also require the reconstruction of the rock protection fence, track signal interface. (Some rock fences are designed such that a rock slide that contacts the fence can send the track signals to red.) 

I was told, and you can take this as second hand knowledge, that the longshoreman's strike at Long Beach several years ago diverted many ships to the Port of Norfolk.  For some reason they found that this was a desirable alternative to Long Beach for the Asian market.  The shortest rail route from Norfolk to Chicago is through Columbus, Ohio, but the tunnels and bridges prevented the safe passage of the double stacks.  The line has significant miles of single track and with long coal trains and with containers cars not double stacked, it gets very crowded.  The states, I think led by Virginia went to Congress to get the money to increase the capacity of the NS Heartland Corridor and low and behold I found myself walking the rails across some very big bridges this last summer.

CSX is also in on the action with the containers in Ohio.  The last I heard they are in the preliminary stages of the tunnel study through the eastern mountains.  I might be walking some of their bridges in 2007.  Who knows!?

Of course, a much more interesting project to me is the Midwest High Speed Rail Plan where Ohio is a participant along with Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and New York.  I would say we are 20 years away from seeing high speed in the Midwest.  Remember it is not an engineering problem, but a political-economics problem.  You can download a 13 page executive summary about high speed rail in Ohio at the ORDC website. 

As to research for information about the real thing, AREMA , FRA and the AAR are about as good as you are going to get on the web for free. 

New engine technology, GPS and computers are all changing the future of the railroads.  You ain't seen nothing yet!

(How did I do on my research Lionroar?) Was it too much )

BTW, if you click on the highlighted refernces it should link to the documenation.

 

Thanks Buckeye!  See the Big Ten (eleven) can get a long! :)

What I found really interesting when I heard about the NS Heartland Project was how up in arms people are about this.  They are viewing it as a $90,000,000 subsidy to the RR industry, but they have no proble with $1,000,000,000.00+ subsidies to Big Oil and Coaling Industries.  By upgrading the bridges and tunnels the Fed will be reducing the shipping costs for just about every product.  The truckers don't like it because their services will not be as much demand.  But in the long run, the general populous will be much safer because of reductions in diesel exhaust and trucking accidents.  Diesel RR Engines are cleaner and are more fuel efficient than trucks, even trucks being run with bio-diesel.

[csxt30]

. . . Also, that 1st. picture of the bridge looks a lot like my Atlas bridge !! Thanks, John

I didn't find that a bit funny... Cute, but not funny.

John,  Take good care of MY ATLAS BRIDGE............I will enjoy it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You better believe I will !! Got yours all covered up in garbage bags & stored in the garage !! You will have plenty of work when I finally get it to you !! Not everyday you run across a pair of these babies for 25 bucks !! Thanks Mr. Segull !! LOL !! Thanks, John

[Blueberryhill RR]

. . . Also, that 1st. picture of the bridge looks a lot like my Atlas bridge !! Thanks, John

I didn't find that a bit funny... Cute, but not funny.

John,  Take good care of MY ATLAS BRIDGE............I will enjoy it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fwright]

Living out on the Left Coast, I have seen the main lines struggling to keep up with the growth in traffic. In the meantime, the more rural areas are having rail service disappear. But that's always been the nature of railroading in the U.S. (or most basic businesses for that matter). The nature, locations, and infrastructure of the business change to meet the changing conditions. Those that don't change eventually go bankrupt.

Most of our infrastructure is not planned to last more than 50 years because things will have changed too much by then. Areas where the infrastructure is not replaced in the 50 year time span have the most trouble with change. The old infrastructure won't support the new demands, and the cost to replace has grown too high.

In Oakland and Richmond, the railroad yards are being modified (new track laid, old track removed) on an almost daily basis to meet the changing needs of the port. With the DOD facilities along the waterfront closed down, the port of Oakland has significantly expanded and needed the railroads to expand, too. LA/LB is in crisis operation with I-110 being a gridlock of trucks from ship unloading. If there were a way to expand rail operations to the port, it would be done because of the costs of those trucks sitting in gridlock.

I recently drove to Cheyenne from San Francisco on I-80 which parallels the UP for much of the way. Donner Pass and the other mountain grades in Nevada must be quite an operations bottleneck. East of Ogden, UT the trains were twice as long as in Nevada and California. But the whole route was trains in each direction at what seemed like 40 minute intervals. That's some heavy railroading!

Railroading is definitely changing, but certainly not dying.

Fred W

[Buckeye Riveter]

. . . Also, that 1st. picture of the bridge looks a lot like my Atlas bridge !! Thanks, John

I didn't find that a bit funny... Cute, but not funny.

[Jumijo]

. . . Also, that 1st. picture of the bridge looks a lot like my Atlas bridge !! Thanks, John

 

[csxt30]

That was really a good post Buckeye !! Also, remote control of locos, eliminating the job of engineer, have been banned in some towns. There were several deaths caused by that when they first started it up. They were also hot on the idea of a 1man crew & no crew at all running trains through the west. Also, that 1st. picture of the bridge looks a lot like my Atlas bridge !! Thanks, John

[Deputy]

Good stuff Buckeye. I LIKE being wrong about this

Dep

[Buckeye Riveter]

Drat!!! I took the dang bait again.

I still haven't learned that when certain people speak...NOBODY can disagree.

Dep

Dep, just do a bit of research before posting something like that... The reason train traffic East of the Alleghenies has dwindled is because all of the tunnels through the Appalachians are too short for double-stack intermodal trains.  Congress has just passed legislation to help the railways raise the roof on many, if not all, rail tunnels so they can accomodate double-stack intermodal trains.  The only one that I can remember that is not slated for raising is the CSX Tunnel under Baltimore - that would be nearly impossible to raise, lower maybe.  The first to be raised is on the Norfolk-Southern Line somewhere in West Virginia.

Any how, there have been numerous articles about this all over the web.

It is still cheaper, and faster to haul freight across the US in trains than it is via truck or ocean liner.  Ocean liners have to route through the Panama Canal (which it too narrow for modern intermodal ships), or they have to go all the way around South America... a trip that still takes over a month.

You are free to disagree with people, just do some research to back up what you are saying... especially when it is so easily refuted!

Lionroar88, has said some things that I am intimately familiar with since this last summer I was out working in the field on five bridge projects in Ohio that are directly related to the NS Heartland Project.  (Photos for your viewing pleasure are below.) The ORDC has put a little money into the $90,000,000 pot to increase clearances for the Ohio bridges.  

The tunnel clearance problem is in West Virginia. Needless to say, just lowering the floor of a tunnel to increase clearances can cause many other problems including the lowering of adjacent railroad bridge decks that then can affect the hydraulics of a stream.  Track lowering can also require the reconstruction of the rock protection fence, track signal interface. (Some rock fences are designed such that a rock slide that contacts the fence can send the track signals to red.) 

I was told, and you can take this as second hand knowledge, that the longshoreman's strike at Long Beach several years ago diverted many ships to the Port of Norfolk.  For some reason they found that this was a desirable alternative to Long Beach for the Asian market.  The shortest rail route from Norfolk to Chicago is through Columbus, Ohio, but the tunnels and bridges prevented the safe passage of the double stacks.  The line has significant miles of single track and with long coal trains and with containers cars not double stacked, it gets very crowded.  The states, I think led by Virginia went to Congress to get the money to increase the capacity of the NS Heartland Corridor and low and behold I found myself walking the rails across some very big bridges this last summer.

CSX is also in on the action with the containers in Ohio.  The last I heard they are in the preliminary stages of the tunnel study through the eastern mountains.  I might be walking some of their bridges in 2007.  Who knows!?

Of course, a much more interesting project to me is the Midwest High Speed Rail Plan where Ohio is a participant along with Illinois, Indiana, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and New York.  I would say we are 20 years away from seeing high speed in the Midwest.  Remember it is not an engineering problem, but a political-economics problem.  You can download a 13 page executive summary about high speed rail in Ohio at the ORDC website. 

As to research for information about the real thing, AREMA , FRA and the AAR are about as good as you are going to get on the web for free. 

New engine technology, GPS and computers are all changing the future of the railroads.  You ain't seen nothing yet!

(How did I do on my research Lionroar?) Was it too much )

BTW, if you click on the highlighted refernces it should link to the documenation.

 

[Anonymous]

 GEEZER !  Who's a Geezer ? Did you say geezer or gooser DEP ? Yea I look almost exactly like that lil pic to the left --- even wear that type hat . I look good to myself in the mirror without my glasses though ! My hearin's failin --- I've goosed a few women in my time hummmm come to think of it quite a few ----  LOL  

[palallin]

Understood; that sort of thing has been known to happen .  Your graciousness is much appreciated.

[RR Redneck]

Hey dep, things have really picked up at western. Over 175 posts.

[Deputy]

lion:Point taken. My apologies to Palallin. It's just that where I lived (which USED to be known as the rail hub of the USA), the tracks are quickly disappearing (along with all the rail names).

Palallin: Understand my opinion (and that's what it was) was based on my limited experience from my area of the USA. Sorry if I had a distorted viewpoint. I gotta learn to get control of these two fingers. They get me in trouble too easily.

Dep 

[palallin]

We shall see I guess. I just think ANYTHING negative about the logo OR the name is NOT needed right now. Lionel is trying to become recognized again and they don't need folks saying things like "geez that LIONEL train game is sure a piece of crap". It puts a negative connotation on the name they don't need.

 

FWIW (watch out for falling temperatures), I agree with Dep here.  The gaming crowd will associate the problems they perceive in the game with the Lionel name.  Trains are already seen by too many as being boring.  A low-rent game like this will reinforce that unfortunate image.