LET'S TRY TO KEEP THE LIONEL/MTH....

[nblum]

I feel better almost all the time :). Thanks for asking.

[Anonymous]

Neil,

I am not sure to what extent the "press" from either side is influencing anyone. I think most of us really just buy what we want and can afford.

I was not suggesting that actual people were "nutcases" I was pointing out the lack of logic with which some people veiw things in some cases (not you, you are as die hard for Lionel as I am for MTH-we are both already lost...).

I was suggesting that those who write under fictitious names might be operating from the lunatic fringe. Z.W. Messengetti, for example, has spent a lot of time and effort in writing "Dawn" and "A Crescent Moon", time which would have been much better spent in therapy...

I am also wondering about Clyde Coil.

I had no idea that I was "Dang Tootin" until I read that in one of his columns (I suppose he was addressing everyone in his audience when he stated "Yer dang tootin!"). I am still trying to figure out how to be "Dang Tootin".

I will work on it. I will make it a personal goal to become "Dang Tootin" in every aspect of my life from now on.

Lionel can do much better than this-like letting you, some of their other good people, and their products speak for themselves.

[AntonioFP45]

Neil,

Whether we agree or disagree, you stated your points quite well and to the point.

There's no denying that MTH produces quality products. No denying that Lionel did screw up; no conspiracy theories.

But hopefully after the smoke and dust from the Lionel and the QSI cases have settled, MTH makes a concerted effort to clean up its image and change some of the business practices that the company currently engages in. I sincerely believe that MTH would gain far more customers if it did. As an intelligent businessman, Mr. Wolfe is very likely aware of this. A great starting point is, as mentioned above, the lack of collegiality and interest in common industry standards..... This is one of the issues that stirred up HO modelers in MTH's refusal to cooperate with the NMRA.

From what I've read Mr. Wolf does occasionally read the threads on this forum as well as the MTH related threads that were on the MRR Forum. It would be great if we no longer had guys flaming each other with extremely opposed views and instead readily support the products offered by manufacturers, including Lionel and MTH.

Or, MTH could continue the "status quo" --business as usual and the negative PR and feelings continue to hang in the air like a dark cloud .

[nblum]

I'm not positive but I believe someone told me that if you listen to "After the Gold Rush" and "Long May You Run" daily, there is no question but that one will be Dang Tootin'.

In any case very creative individuals express themselves in ways that don't always impress all of us more conventional (as opposed to command) folk.

I think as long as MTH acts as if it has declared corporate war on its competitors, there will be unconventional literary output on the subject from various quarters. Is it good for the hobby? Probably not. Is it inevitable given the conditions that exist? Probably.

[Anonymous]

Neil,

I will let George "Gabby" Hayes be the guiding light in my life from now on. "Gaul Dangit!" (did I spell that correctly?).

(I do wonder how all of this will play out 10 years from now).

In the meantime-Happy Holidays!!!

(I think we both need to run trains more!!!)

[Anonymous]

[:D]I am 33 yrs old and have been learning the hoppy all over again with my 5yr old who teaches me everyday things I had forgotten or never took notice of. I work as an engineer and my son is a bit disappointed that I am not a train engineer.[:0]
His recent birthday party of 8 boys reinforced the strength of this hobby. Our 8x10' layout caused half of the boys to literally jump for joy when the engines started. [8)] They could not get enough of taking turns running them. My 8x12' layout as a boy got dusty after 5-10 years. Our goal now is to keep it "new" with a portable takedown layout for use Sept - Dec. so every September will be like Christmas for us.
Growing up with Lionel and Marx I have decided to stick with Lionel for all future purchases and the recent court battle enforces that decision.[^] Long live Lionel![;)]
--Steve
Portland CT

[3railguy]

LIONEL WAS FRAMED BY MTH

LIONEL IS INNOCENT!!!

[RI Jim]

"Lionel was framed by MTH. Lionel is innocent." Yeah, and I've got some swampland in the Everglades to sell 3Railguy. Bet he'd buy it too.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RI Jim

"Lionel was framed by MTH. Lionel is innocent." Yeah, and I've got some swampland in the Everglades to sell 3Railguy. Bet he'd buy it too.

RI Jim, I'm not interested. That swampland is loaded with PCB's because I deep sixed my MTH PS-1 engines there.

[Anonymous]

Let me offer my thoughts:

The allegations of MTH in this matter are that they've lost profits and that's what they're suing for. I've been told that $40 million is only 80% of what they were asking for, and that this affected 20 locomotives that they lost profits on.

Now I am a former Lionel employee... This goes back to when they were producing trains out of Michigan, perhaps even the last years of it.. I know the kind of production volumes Lionel built high-end locomotives at the time, and there's no way that the profit on even 20 locomotives (also a figure I have a hard time buying) could come close to $40 million.. You might get close if you went by total retail sales, but the manufacturer sees maybe half of that, and profit comes after materials and overhead.

Forget about the stolen locomotive design, nobody is more or less clean than the other, and it's not like we're talking about nuclear secrets or the secret to eternal youth here... These are toys that involve basic mechanisms that have been around for decades. Sure, the electronics are new, but correct me if I'm wrong, that isn't even at issue here.

I have a hard time believing that this is really about anything but agressive business practices... The kind they teach you about in junior high civics when they talk about monopoly busting back in the railroad days... Kinda ironic, I guess, if you think about it.

[Back2Trains]

PCBs were illegal before PS-1 came out, so our swampland is still safe.

[3railguy]

QUOTE: Now I am a former Lionel employee... This goes back to when they were producing trains out of Michigan, perhaps even the last years of it..

It is sad that the Michigan plant was shut down. I often reminisce the days of Fundimensions and LTI when trains were made the old fashion way. Magetraction, mechanical reverse, field wound motors, etc. Crude by today's standards but simple, durable, and reliable. Today's trains are fantastic but they can be finicky and are not what I call user friendly when it comes to maintenance and repairs.

[CB&Q]

We needed good p.r. to attract new comers to this great hobby alas this won't help. this reminds me of the great LIONEL-AMERICAN FLYER Battle of years gone by. In a way were part to blame for wanting it cheaper& faster and so the less honorable tried to do it not so honestly. Both sides need to take a breath & do whats honest . If you make a good product & afordable it will be bought. I wonder how well MTH would have done in 40's-50's era? food for thought I wonder if 100-years from now if anyone will even care about this topic?????

[Anonymous]

I believe that the timing of this controversy is unfortunate for the whole hobby and industry. For the first time in several decades, a toy train is one of the current holiday season's most popular toys and the industry is busily bickering over this issue rather than focusing on supplying the marketplace. Both MTH and Lionel need to concentrate on promoting toy trains to as wide an audience as possible. The brave new world of toy trains requires suppliers who are committed to reacting to marketplace conditions quickly and who are also capable of producing large quantities of toys that find favor in the marketplace, not just boutique trains for hobbyists.

[3railguy]

John, I couldn't agree with you more. The magnitude of the misappropriations were blown way out of proportion in my opinion. Too much focus is being put on the issues.

[Buckeye Riveter]

From the Detroit Free Press
Lionel agrees to loans
Model-train firm to borrow $60 million
December 14, 2004 BY TOM BECKER
BLOOMBERG
Lionel LLC, a maker of model trains since 1900, reached agreements to obtain almost $60 million in loans to allow it to remain in business and pay down debt as it tries to reorganize under bankruptcy protection.
The complete story can be seen at:

http://www.freep.com/money/business/lionel14e_20041214.htm

[nblum]

Assuming the bankruptcy court approves these loans and their terms, what this almost certainly means is that the odds of MTH collecting even a penny of their original judgement any time soon is zero. This will enable Lionel to work in the court system to reverse or reduce what was an idiotically large and misconstrued finding in the first place. Good luck to them, and may MTH never see one red cent of this judgement :).

[3railguy]

I have a lot of faith that Lionel will pull throught this. They have done quite well recently with truly outstanding products. Both starter sets and scale equipment. What concerns me is many of the brainchildren who orchestrated this have left the company.