G'day Gents!
Time for another Blast from the Past!
PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #50
Here's something to enjoy regarding the Southern Railway (SOU) from a 1949 advertisement in my personal collection.
<A form of this was initially Posted on Page 200 of the Original Thread>
[Yeah, I know this is a FREIGHT ad - but what the heck!!]
. . . . . . THE SOUTH
Suits to a "T"
WHY has an average of one new factory a day located along the lines of the Southern Railway System during the past three years?
Because industries are discovering that the South served by the Southern is a "gold mine of opportunity"! With a wealth of natural resources and advantages, expanding consumer markets, skilled and willing workers . . . and a bright future . . . the South suits all industries - to a "T".
Look Ahead - Look South!" Earnest E. Norris, President.
SOUTHERN RAILWAY SYSTEM The Southern Serves the South
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Some drumheads of the Southern's passenger trains
Enjoy!
Tom
Hi Tom and all.
A pint of Mauldons please RUTH.
DOUG Great to see you in. Many Thanks for the wishes
ERIC Thanks for the DD1 drawing.
I shall look forward to your models tomorrow, if you are able to take the photos.
Is the CSX train in New England..
Is Lars paying for the $5 cup of coffee
JAN Real glad you are enjoying the banter at the bar, its what makes Our Place special to me.
Really liked the list of Mauldons alesoccasionally we would be able to get Mauldons in Rugby as one of the local pubs would have it as a guest ale. It was a good beer.
We will have to get Allan's opinion on the Mussel Inn beers. I had a look at their web site and found the one that would not appear in your post, it has a great description of the bitter.
Thanks for the photo of the Milwaukee Road 4-4-4 Streamliner.
A photo of a British streamliner ex LNER A4 60007 'Sir Nigel Gresley'
LARS Take care while you are on the roof today.
Fully agree with what you say about the bar.
Yes the Shopping expeditions are to be avoided if at all possible, that why I like Hermann MO when it is cooler, I can sit in the park between the Missouri River and the railway with the pooch and a book while the bride browses the antique shops.
Some good C&NW book covers, the official color photographs looks an interesting book.
CM3 I can't wait until it gets down to 54F in the morning here in Mid Mo.
Talking about elephants, a silly thought came in to my head; I wonder how they transported giraffes by rail in the old days of circus trains.
TOM Hammonds Field in Springfield MO is a modern and a really good stadium; as you say the minor league baseball do try to entertain the crowd between innings. There was some brilliant fielding with some great double plays, which considering the temperature on the field was at least 100F for most of the match, was very good. As you say most of the players seemed quite young.
For the competition I will say August 30th It is quite possible we will reach the 2,000th post around page 100.What does manager Lars think about giving up the Penthouse Suite for a weekend as the prize, Jans beers look well worth having.
Thanks for the Southern Railway ad, it good to see a freight ad, I guess most of the ads for freight were usually posted in trade magazines etc.
The Southern drumheads seem a lot plainer than a lot of the other roads.
The thing about the Southern steam locomotives I have seen in photos is, that the design of the tender seems to compliment the looks of the locomotive.
As to the bar tab, I have taken the attitude of ‘Drink today, pay tomorrow'
Can anyone guess the country this photo was taken in. Clue it is not Britain or Ireland
A pint of New Zealand bitter from Mussel Inn and a round please RUTH
Hi Tom and all in
enclosed with is this note is a crate of steam whsitle brewery beer for all to enjoy from the old roundhouse near Union station.
Arrived here in Toronto OK - my 1st web connection is a free one in a shop where I am with my other half! We are riding the TTC a lot - have booked the Ontario Northalnd trip so report back soon in order. Jet lag enabled an early start to the 1st day to see off The Canadian from Union station - 20 cars - 4 or 5 domes - Budd looking good in the steel! - This shop is just near a CPR east bound line so just seen some good freight action with triple heading! Good stuff. No time to read other posts but thought it good to say hello to all - hope business is good these last few days!
DL
Good day lads, I have returned from the legion of the lost (yet again, seriously i've been TDY to the Aberdeen Proving Grounds and Tucson these past few weeks, what a total grind!) Enough of formalities, set up em on me, got all that per deim money burning a hole in my pocket!
Just wanted to wish natal returns to Pwolf and a substantial wet kiss from Boris in my behalf!!!
Good day to Barndad, Always refreshing to see a man of your talent and abilities around the bar! Capt Tom good to see you about and your usual involvement in the establishment...A special round for you sir!!!
Lars, Keep safe, and don't fall off that roof!!!! The tool/materials are ok to toss, but not oneself...
Well, obviously I feel lower then a snakes belly at my ignorance as to recent events and my inability to proivide a intelligent response to the fantastic postings since my last visit, I shall return as time permits...
Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!
Leon, I think the time is right for Rumpsteak Café de Paris! Tired of it? No way, try it yourself and you will understand why not! Fries, please.
After a night with just a few hours sleep, an extremely powerful and noisy thunderstorm woke me up at 2 AM, I feel kind of tired but I certainly would like to know what happened at "Our" Place today before I hit the sack.
Tom – Two weeks ahead being on the mend is fine! This whole thing, all of a sudden having a triple bypass operation and then being able to recover with hardly any problems or pain at all is like winning the lottery. They discovered the problem before anything happened to my heart. So my heart doesn’t have any damage and I feel great! Not that strong yet, but still great!Thank you for the C&NW info on those “400” trains! 400 miles in 400 minutes! That is not bad!The picture with the CSX freight? I don’t remember exactly where I took it, but it was somewhere between Harpers Ferry and Washington D.C. Sorry I can’t be more precise. But it was 14 years and a couple of weeks ago. Page 100? August 21! Southern Railway System! Interesting! Did their Crescent Sunset Limited have anything to do with SP’s Sunset Limited? Lars – Don’t worry, I am not pushing any limits the doc put up. The only real stupid thing I’ve done so far was when I tried to do some yard work last Sunday. I felt right away that was the wrong thing to do so I gave up after a few minutes. Some very interesting book covers! The diesel on the third one from the top looks exactly like a the model I have! I had hoped to be able to show that model in a picture tonight but the camera battery died before I could take one. So I’ll show it next week instead. CM3 – Slow and easy is what it is! The CSX pix was taken somewhere between Harpers Ferry and Washington D.C. I don’t remember exactly where though. JanOlov – Good grief, how many different kind of beers are there? The most beautiful steam locomotive designed? Wow, that was a tough one. I am afraid I can’t give that answer tonight. But I promise to think about for a day or two. Pete – Sorry, I had problems with the battery in my camera when i was taking my pictures so I was only able to get two pictures taken. Very nice picture of that Class A4! What year did you take it?The other picture is from the Netherlands. ACTS locomotive #6703 is pulling a Mercia Charters cahrter train in Holland. ACTS is normally only running freight trains. Could it be from July 7 this year?DL – Glad to hear you made it safely to Toronto! Hope you will have a good time! Dave – Good to see you again!! Tucson is not that far away! Old SP territory! Looking forward to see you soon again!
This is a (N-scale) Swedish Class Du2 electric (now retired). A type of locomotive I have operated many, many times, usually in multiple.
A SP SD40T-2. HO scale.
At this moment the camera battery died, so this is all for this time.
Eric
<courtesy: www.viarail.ca>
Wednesday's Witticism
Do not desire what you can't acquire.
Petrol dropped again, this time to $2.49 (rounded) - that's $2.48.9 for the arithmetic challenged! <grin>
Hot, hot, ‘n hotter! Record set ‘round here at 103 (F) as August continues to burn us alive in mid-continent USA. <ugh> Only good thing to say is that with each passing day, the FALL gets CLOSER!
Last request - HELP WANTED! Okay guys, this is the time to put up or . . . tomorrow I'm outta here after getting the morning ACKNOWLEDGMENTs out (maybe!). So, let's see if we can muster up some support - especially in the AFTERNOON ‘n EVENING!
CONTEST underway: It's that time again for an "Our" Place test of judgment! WHEN will we reach 100 Pages at the reborn Thread??? Shouldn't be all that difficult to measure, however, getting PARTICIPATION before I close it up is more of the challenge. All we need is the date (day/month) when you think we'll hit the century mark! CM3 Shane sez Monday, Aug 20th - Jan sez Saturday, Aug 25th - Pete says Thursday, Aug 30th - 'n Eric says Tuesday, Aug 21st - what's your pick???? CONTEST SUBMISSIONS END FRIDAY at NOON!!!
Customer Acknowledgments (since my last narrative)
Lars (LoveDomes) at 7:46 AM Tuesday - Aug 14th: A rather early AM visit from our Manager. Pleased to see that you've put us ahead of roof ‘n chimney repair! <grin> That's either dedication, or procrastination! Either way, great to have you "in."!
Nice supplement to the C&NR "stuff" - always like the book cover selections that you come up with.
We've probably gotten some guys on board who weren't exposed to the <star> "thing" back when these Forums used to "award" ‘em for the number of Posts made. 5-stars was the maximum. I've pretty much forgotten what the milestones were - but no matter. Amassing 7,000 plus Posts is nothing more than being active on the Forums. Some guys like to run up "the count" with absolute nonsense, whereas others put forth substantive matter. I'm hoping to remain in the latter category . . .
Your comment on those who "wing it" really brings to mind a few guys who used to do that regularly. It got to the point where I'd send ‘em Emails asking them to consider how they were embarrassing THEMSELVES. Didn't work. Fortunately, they're gone . . .
Thanx for the round, support ‘n covers!
CM3 Shane at 8:27 AM Tuesday - Aug 14th: You're "in" with Aug 20th as your date! That's a Monday, by the by . . . Thanx for being the 1st to sign-up!
Temps here in the AM have been 75 at 6 - 6:30 AM when we take Juneau for his first walkathon through the wilds of the subdivision. Second walk occurs about 2 hours later, and by then it's in the mid-80s. By noon the walks are restricted to around the property in the SHADE of the trees. Too hot for dogs ‘n people. <ugh> Next big walk is in the evening - about 7:30 PM when the sun finally settles below our hills ‘n tree line. <phew>
Figured you'd pick up on those traction book covers provided by Lars! <grin>
I see my "talents' are being exploited once again! This time as "Relay Man" for Email destined to the coal fields of WVA! "Relay Man," Privacy Guardian for those who prefer to remain "anon" in the Ether. Friend to all who give a Rat's Patoot, ‘n Mentor to the likes of Boris ‘n Leon, our less fortunate souls who have found themselves completely at home in "Our" Place! Yeah, that's me - RELAY MAN! Bring ‘em on!! <grin>
Many thanx for the quarters, round, chat ‘n support!
Jan (JanOlov) at 8:45 AM ‘n 9:03 AM Tuesday - Aug 14th: With a string of beer labels like that, we'll reach Page 100 today! <grin>
Much appreciation for the gifts of brew for whoever wins! As mentioned, they are all stowed away up in the Manager's Bar in the Penthouse Suite!
Noted your "edit" ‘n fine addition of that Milwaukee Road streamlined steam loco! Is it a 4-4-2 Hiawatha?? That'll "work"! Also added your Contest entry! <grin>
Think you'll get an argument regarding "THE most beautiful steamlocomotive ever designed." I KNOW for a fact that Wolfman Pete ‘n Manager Lars have their "favorites" - so let's hear about ‘em!!
Pete (pwolfe) at 4:06 PM Tuesday - Aug 14th: Springfie
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. Let's see, today we'll play "Nellie Dean, Head for the Roundhouse Nellie - The Engineer Can't Corner You There, and Barefoot Nellie." Boris does a real good spoons solo on the middle tune.
Gas is at $2.74 here today, temperature was 52 degrees this a.m.
Yankees lost, Sox win (late inning heroics), and the Cards are twitching a little (five games below .500 and in the wild card hunt.) BTW, for those who remember the Scooter, the NY Times website has an excellent slideshow about him.
DL - Glad you made it.
Pete visited
Dave stopped by, too.
Eric - As I said, "Generic B&O country."
The little electric - hmm - I see all kinds of kitbashing possibilities on that one, except that it probably costs a ton of $. The tunnel motor is nice - can't believe it's cleaner than the real ones. When the C&O side had SD50s, they'd be clean entering tunnels over here and look like D&RG units when they came out - Chessie paint was nice when it was clean, but if it got dirty...
Jan Olov - I see lots of billboard cars down at the M&S NG yard. Skyraider was an interesting label. I have several friends who served on the "Sara."
Well, since the gloves have been dropped, I'll jump in first. IMHO, most of the streamlined designs were not all that great and some, in fact, were terrible - NYC Mercury design and the NYC Commodore Vanderbilt are two that come to mind. As for most of the PRR (with the exception of the as-built T class,) I don't think they make the cut either. So I'll cast a vote for the New Haven I5 in terms of looks - remember that mechanical problems don't play a part here. Second place goes to the NYCs Hudsons which were streamlined for the 1938 Century.
OSP sent some Southern material. The SOU advertised in the National Geographic quite a bit. Much of their ad copy was devoted to industrial development (with a bit of moonlight and magnolias thrown in now and then). As for the "Crescent," it depends on which train you are talking about. Boris will have to carry the lantern again while we adjourn to the vault.
Here's some information about the Crescent as it was about 1930. I posted this awhile back, but why not?
This was an L&N/A&WP/SOU/PRR operation
Northbound
Lv. New Orleans 9:00 p.m. - L&N
Lv. Mobile 1:15 a.m. - L&N
Arr. Montgomery 6:25 a.m. - L&N
Arr. Atlanta 11:40 a.m. - A&WP
Arr. Spartanburg 5:30 p.m. - SOU
Arr. Charlotte 7:25 p.m. - SOU
Arr. Lynchburg 12:40 a.m. - SOU
Arr. Washington 5:20 a.m. - SOU
Arr. Baltimore 6:35 a.m. - PRR
Arr. W. Phila. 8:43 a.m. - PRR
Arr. No. Phila. 8:55 a.m. - PRR
Arr. New York 10:45 a.m. - PRR
Southbound
Lv. New York 8:40 p.m. - PRR
Lv. No. Phila 10:34 p.m. - PRR
Lv. W. Phila. 10:49 p.m. - PRR
Lv. Baltimore 12:57 a.m. - PRR
Lv. Washington 2:10 a.m. - SOU
Lv. Lynchburg 6:52 a.m. - SOU
Lv. Charlotte 12:01 p.m. - SOU
Lv. Spartanburg 1:50 p.m. - SOU
Lv Atlanta 6:05 p.m. - A&WP
Lv. Montgomery 11:30 p.m. - L&N
Lv. Mobile 4:22 a.m. - L&N
Arr. New Orleans 8:30 a.m. - L&N
Flag stops were at Bay St. Louis, Pass Christian, Gulfport, Edgewater Park, Biloxi, Ocean Springs, and Pascagoula "to take on passengers to or from Atlanta and points east."
"The Crescent Limited will carry northbound from Mobile, and southbound to Mobile, only passengers to and from destinations beyond Alabama; south of Montgomery will carry Montgomery passengers only from or to New Orleans and points west."
EQUIPMENT
Club Car: New Orleans - New York (Valet service, movable chairs, two sofas, four double seats, buffet, magazines, writing desk and accessories, shower bath.)
Dining Cars - All meals en route
10 sect/2 compt/1 dr. room sleeper: New Orleans - New York
10 sect/2 dr. room sleeper: New Orleans - New York (2 cars)
14 section sleeper: New Orleans - New York (at least one car)
10 sect/2 dr. room sleeper: New Orleans - Washington
2 dr. room/3 compartment/observation car: New Orleans - New York (women's lounge room, shower bath, maid and manicure service, sofa, movable chairs in the observation end, magazine, writing desk and accessories.)
No coaches.
Work safe
Ahoy Cap'n Tom ‘n fellow travelers at the bar!
Ruth my deAH, you are a marvelous sight this day - and ANY day!! How about a mugga Joe with a jolt, a couple of those Danish from the bakery case ‘n a round for the gang! Change is YOURS my lovely! <blush>
Boris, the crittAHs are ready for feedin' - so let's get with the program, mate! And yes, the small jar of PPF is yours once finished.
HEY GUYS, stop by Tom's other thread - there's a great post from a guy that I think you'll enjoy. Why not invite him to stop in over HERE?????
For Da Boss: I'll take Monday, August 27th for reaching page 100!
Good stuff on the Southern!
For Jan: No way do I think your Milwaukee Road streamlined steamer was the best. My vote goes to the New York Central's J3 Hudson with streamlined casing designed by Henry Dreyfuss.
In 1934, NYC J1E Hudson 5344 was the world's first streamlined locomotive. The "bathtub" shroud was designed by the Case School of Science at Cleveland, OH.
Many more - but let's see what the guys have to offer!
For Pete: The Larsman does NOT pay for five dollar coffee! Furthermore, I'd be very cautious with commentary regarding the use of the Penthouse Suite, especially since there's EVIDENCE of Sonia being a visitor! You wouldn't know anything about THAT wudja??? <uh oh>
I'll go with Da Boss and his guess regarding your "mystery pix."
For Dave: Thanks for the cautionary comments. Yes, I was careful up there while getting several shingles replaced. The chimney requires a bit more attention and looks like we'll have some tuck pointing done. Thought I could handle it, but the wear ‘n tear is more extensive than it first appeared. <arrrrgggghhhh> Anyway, great to see ya again! Hope the gaps aren't as long as the last one. Otherwise, Da Boss will have to put you back in the Legion! <tdn>
For Dan: Toronto and having fun - now that's the idea! Very nice of you to think about us while on holiday. There's two of us who do such things!! Should say three - as the Cap'n does it all the time. Anyway, hope the ONR trip works out ‘n we'll be waiting for a report!
For Eric: Ok, have it your way! Just glad to know you're mending well, feeling good ‘n back to speed. Nice looking model trains - now all ya need is a LAYOUT! <grin>
For Shane: The loss of the "Scooter" has shaken many baseball fans in this area. The man was an icon in New York City ‘n will remain so for quite awhile. Didn't realize he spent 40 years BROADCASTING! I can still see him turning double plays at shortstop for the Yankees on the way to those 7 WS championships. Yeah, an icon for sure! RIP Phil!
Good "stuff" on the Crescent . . . .
Southern Serves the South!
C'mon Ruth, we've gotta get that <ahem> admin work squared away! Boris, do your thing!
Until the next time!
Lars
Fellas.....
Here's my Top 6 of favorite streamlined steamer....
It's a shame that only the SP Daylight and N&W J is the only one of these that are preserved....
Who remember DL&W winged Pacific?
Ahoy Cap'n Tom!
I think it's time again to remind a few of the "basics" from Page One . . . .
History: "Our" Place began on April 12th, 2005 on the General Discussion (Classic Trains) Forum.Concept: An adult bar & grill for all who are interested in and familiar with "Classic Trains." The conversations are as they would be in a neighborhood bar, where people know one another and share stories, photos and other information relevant to the idea of the Forum - Classic Trains. All of this with some humor thrown in and the rest is simple.Objective: Have fun!Ground rules: Leave ALL emotional baggage and "attitudes" on the front porch. Be inclusive with your comments through the acknowledgment of the other guy's efforts. Hit ‘n run Posts are not welcome.Greet the bartender upon entering and order a drink or food. Pretty easy, eh
History: "Our" Place began on April 12th, 2005 on the General Discussion (Classic Trains) Forum.
Concept: An adult bar & grill for all who are interested in and familiar with "Classic Trains."
The conversations are as they would be in a neighborhood bar, where people know one another and share stories, photos and other information relevant to the idea of the Forum - Classic Trains.
All of this with some humor thrown in and the rest is simple.
Objective: Have fun!
Ground rules: Leave ALL emotional baggage and "attitudes" on the front porch.
Be inclusive with your comments through the acknowledgment of the other guy's efforts. Hit ‘n run Posts are not welcome.
Greet the bartender upon entering and order a drink or food. Pretty easy, eh
So, here's the deal - you don't get <tweeted> 'n we go on with our info exchanges, free from the stress 'n strain of Da Boss' wrath! <grin>
For Jan: Fine looking machines . . . have a drink on me!
Landlord Tom and gentlemen.....
Slamming and rattling in the kitchen....pommpommhummtadadadaammm....
Sorry fellas, just being bored and thought that I'd scramble something together to kill time.
There's already a few plates up on the counter, so help yourself. I hope that some spicy chili will rub your stomachs the right way....
Lars, that drink (extra cold Guinness please) will come in just fine thanks. It's mighty hot in here.....
I hope that I haven't overstepped the line according to the rules , if I have I offer you my humble apologies.
I hope that you all enjoy a nice morning or evening wherever you might be, reading the morningpaper with a cuppa.
Gotta go..... before something get burnt...
Good day Tom and all present or not. Drinks for all as usual. I just finished lunch so a pint of Guinness only for me. As I mentioned a while back, one of my many interests is cooking. I rarely eat out and only if it's prime rib or a seafood buffet. Down here in Mississippi, everything is all-you-can-eat buffets. It's a great deal. You can eat at a buffet at one of the casinos here and for $18.95(used to be $9.95), you can partake of all the Alaska King crab and shrimp you can eat. Also on the buffets are steak, mussels, oysters, fried chicken and countless other items. All Chinese restaurants do the same thing at a cost of $5.95 to $7.95. It's easy to gain weight here. I don't know if other parts of the country do the same thing. When I travelled up to N.Y. last year, I did find most Chinese restaurants did have buffets.
My guess for when we reach the 100 page mark is Aug 21. That's my guess and I'm sticking to it.
For Eric: I'm happy to hear your recovery from heart surgery is going so well. The medical arts have come a long way from even just 20 or so years ago. Pain management pretty much has eliminated all pain. (I don't like pain). Just as an example of how painless most procedures are (unlike Dr. House), When I go in for a colonoscopy, (I've had 3 so far) the nurse numbs the area for the IV. Then I'm given an antibiotic and a sedative, all before being put to sleep. It's actually less painfull than a haircut. I'm scheduled for another one next month.
I liked the models. That Swedish engine especially is one of my favorites. Am I to understand you were an engineer in Sweden and drove one of those electrics? Maybe you can relate some of your impressions. It's not too often that a real engineer is on this forum.
Thanks for the link to DD-1 data. It does have some usefull data and every bit helps.
My vote for the most beautiful locomotive ever built has to go to the GG-1 in it's original Pennsy colors. I usually don't think of locomotives as objects of beauty. I look at them in terms of brute force power. A Rottweiler vs a poodle. That's why I'm into heavy electric traction and some steam and diesel power also.
For all: I came across the following piece as I was surfing for DD-1 information.
A Tale of Two Memos:
Charles Lindbergh and the Pennsylvania Railroad
by James Alexander Jr.
A version of this was published in Locomotive and Railway Preservation Magazine in January 1994 under the title of Two Memos and Two Machines: Lindbergh and the Pennsylvania Railroad, and in Milepost, the Journal of the Friends of the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania.
From The Memos:
1927: A special train for the International News Reel Corporation was operated from Washington, June 11, 1927, for the transportation of motion picture films of the reception of Colonel Charles A. Lindbergh at Washington ...
1950: E6s No. 460, out of service awaiting Class 3 repairs since April 2 this year, is the locomotive that hauled to New York the motion pictures of the Lindberg (sic) Reception in Washington after his Trans-Atlantic Flight.
Do not include this locomotive in any list of locomotives to be scrapped or sold. When it is retired from active service, arrange to have it retained as a relic for historical and exhibition purposes.
Pennsylvania Railroad Memorandum, Philadelphia, June 13, 1927, from D. M. Sheaffer, Chief of Passenger Transportation, to M. W. Clement, Vice President, Operations:
A special train for the International News Reel Corporation was operated from Washington, June 11, 1927, for the transportation of motion picture films of the reception to Colonel Charles A. Lindbergh at Washington....
Waiting with a full head of steam on track eight at Washington's Union Station, PRR Atlantic No. 460 was coupled to B-60-B baggage car No. 7874 and P-70 passenger coach No. 3301. Extra 460 East was ready to go!
In the quest to be the first to bring the historic film of the Lindbergh ceremonies to New York City's Broadway theaters, other newsreel companies had chartered planes to fly film northward. But the International News Reel Corporation was determined to transport its film by train, as it had successfully done after President Coolidge's inauguration two years earlier.
To make a long story short, the PRR E6 beat the airplanes to New York by 1 hour. The E6 was uncoupled from the two coaches and replaced by a DD-1 to finish the trip under the Hudson river to Pennsylvania Station.
Not only does the E6 no.460 have a historical background, it seems the DD-1 does also.(The number of the DD-1 used was mentioned, but I forget to include it.)
BTW If anyone needs a special scale made up for use in scaling drawings from books and magazines, don't hesitate to ask. I can make a special scale just from one dimension using Autocad®.
A bit of banter going on between Jan 'n Lars! Also some fine "shrouds" from our Swedish Scot in the UK!
Also just caught that fine Post from Ron down in Mississippi!
Now for a change of pace . . .
OPTIONAL Toy 'n Model Trains Day!
Here's something that a few of you may remember from days gone by when pouring through those model RR magazines - TT scale!
Frequently Asked Questions About TT Scale To the TT Scale On-Line Home pageWhat is TT scale? TT scale is a model railroad scale whose size falls in between HO and N scale. It's actual scale measurement is 1/120, or 0.10 inch = one foot, or one inch = ten feet. It's track gauge was set at 0.471 inch or 15/32. 12mm is currently the accepted gauge, which is 0.472 inch. TT scale was once the smallest practical model railroad scale available, and quite popular, even though it was (and is) primarily a craftsman's scale (Almost everything was assembled from kits or scratch built.). You could say that TT scale is close to HOn3. So you can have a main line model railroad in the same space as an HO narrow gauge railroad. Where did it come from? TT scale was the invention of an engineer by the name of Hal Joyce around 1940, who also created HP Products, but commercial production was delayed until 1945 because of the war. HP brought out an extensive line of locomotives, cars, track, and accessories. Other manufacturers also joined the ranks of TT scale producing items. Gandy Dancer, Jewel, Craftsman, Star-Line, Kemtron, and Christoph Products just to name a few. TT was a fairly popular scale through the 1950's. Why haven't I heard of TT scale before this? TT scale has very few followers or modelers in the United States today. Most of the major model railroading publications do not even acknowledge that it exists. When N scale made it's appearance in the 1960's, and using better manufacturing processes that made superior detailing possible, as well as cheap ready to run equipment, TT scale declined rapidly. But because of the Internet, TT'ers have started to come together for modeling discussions, and to voice their needs and wants. Thus, more modelers are hearing about TT scale today. Is TT scale popular anywhere? Yes. TT scale is very popular in the European countries. Rokal, in Germany, started manufacturing some items in 1949, and by 1952 had a full line of engines, cars, track, and accessories available. Other manufacturers in Germany and other countries also started manufacturing TT scale items. TT scale in Europe is second only to HO scale, and is gaining. What is available in TT scale? If you want to model European railroads, everything is available, ready to run. If you want to model North American railroads, items are available as well, but not in the variety and quantity that they are for European model railroads. Locomotive types are limited, as are cars, buildings, and accessories, and all are in kit form. But things are getting better. Since the track is the same gauge for European TT and American TT, it is readily available and is a very good quality product. Tillig (in Germany) has the most complete line of track and turnout items including curved turnouts and double-slip switches. These are available from Euro Train Hobby who has an extensive web site. Most other American items are from left over stock of the original TT scale manufacturers, or from cottage industries casting items in resin. European and Australian locomotive drive kits can be used for engines, but they are still kits. What is the minimum radius for TT scale? The accepted minimum radius is 14 inches, although you can possibly go down to 12 inches, but you will be limited on some equipment that can be used. The NMRA has a section or list of Recommended practices for TT scale. These can be seen at the NMRA web site. Where can I get TT scale items? European TT scale trains can be gotten from Europe of course, but also from importers such as Euro Train Hobby in New Jersey. American TT items can be gotten from some of the old timers that are selling off their excess stock, such as Larry Sayre formerly LarCo Models, and John Harmon, formerly Allegheny Model Products. Also, some of the newer manufactures / modelers have a good variety of items from engines, cars, buildings, and other accessories, all in kit form. These items can be found through searches on the Internet. The primary web site for these items is http://www.ttscale.com. However, there are also a few other small manufacturers out there that have TT scale items available who are not associated with ttscale.com such as BTS and Sleepy Hollow Models, so a good Internet search of TT scale will certainly produce some good results. Also, eBay seems to have TT scale items on there quite regularly. You must search in Model Railroading, "other scales" and "TT" to bring up the list. Also you can search "120" as well. An NMRA type standards gauge and a TT scale ruller are available from Coastal Engineering, who has a listing on www.ttscale.com. Is TT scale more expensive than other scales? TT scale trains and kits are priced about the same as HO and N scale items. Some items may be less, some more. Because TT scale in America today is supported solely by a cottage industry, some items may be produced and sold in limited numbers. The older and original TT scale items may be more expensive, as some are starting to view them as collectable. However, there are still some good running original HP steam locomotives available for a reasonable price. Wher Happy Railroading! Siberianmo JanOlov Member sinceDecember 2001 From: GB 376 posts Posted by JanOlov on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:17 PM Master Tom and fellow forum travellers....DD1, I have to say that I do enjoy electrics as well, indeed I do, may it boxcabs, bipolar, GG1 you name it. But I'm heavy into steam , I used to work as fireman occasionally. I enjoy early and second generation diesel and as mentioned above electrics though.Just run across Big Liz for the first time today and I thought Eric, I'm slightly embarrassed here to have missed your heartsurgery and I sincerely apologise for that. My deepest and most sincere well wishes for a speedy recovery goes out to you.My dad have a heart problem too, which has caused me some scary moments here in Glasgow, since they still live in my native Sweden. So here's to your health Eric...For all, I hope that you all are enjoying a good day/night. All the best! Jan JanOlov Member sinceDecember 2001 From: GB 376 posts Posted by JanOlov on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:33 PM Sir Tom,You can't beat a good friendly banter between two friends, it's all in good fun. Which reminds me of a serious banter I had with one of my best friends in Sweden who's DL&W, Erie and EL fanatic.Anyhoo, we were at one of the local stores to pick some stuff for dinners etc, as during this time I helped him with the house and modelrailroad.As we had walking around picking up things to use, the devil flew into us and we started arguing severely with some language and namecalling etc."if you weren't so stupid this wouldn't be so diffcult for you to understand. But since your parents dropped you heardfirst into the floor, I guess that it's something I have to put up with.... "This went on for the rest of time in the store until we reached the checkout. We were still going on back and forth.The poor lady sitting at the checkout looked worried and said: now, now boys you should argue....blah blah and all that.Then we couldn't keep our straight faces and began laughing whereupon she looked somewhat confused. We felt rather guilty and explained it all to her.... All the best! Jan Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:47 PM I just thought I would stick my head in the door again rather than edit my previous post. Drinks as usual and a quicky for me.For Jan: I was brought up alongside electrics on the LIRR. At that time in my life, motive power on the LIRR was composed of DD-1's operating on the electrified portion of the RR. E6 Atlantics took trains on the non-electrified routes. Some routes were handled by MU. Alco and Fairbanks Morse diesels were the first ones to work on the line and handled all the freight traffic. The Sunnyside yards were handled by B-1 electrics and the Alco's and FM's. The electrics were finally phased out except for the trip under the East river to Penn station. Today, they have diesels that convert to electric power alone for the tunnel trips. How I miss that ozone smell of the DC engines when the speed control contactors would make and break. Edit siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "Our" Place reborn! 3rd Year of adults 'n REAL Classic Trains in a special environment! Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:01 PM G'day Gents!Thought I'd get a leg up on the Acknowledgments since I may not have time in the 'morrow . . .CONTEST underway: It's that time again for an "Our" Place test of judgment! WHEN will we reach 100 Pages at the reborn Thread??? Shouldn't be all that difficult to measure, however, getting PARTICIPATION before I close it up is more of the challenge. All we need is the date (day/month) when you think we'll hit the century mark! (1) CM3 Shane sez Monday, Aug 20th(2) Jan sez Saturday, Aug 25th(3) Pete says Thursday, Aug 30th(4) Eric says Tuesday, Aug 21st(5) Lars says Monday, August 27th(6) Ron says Tuesday, Aug 21st (sorry, but only 1 winner for "ties" <frown>; changes permitted!)what's YOUR pick????CONTEST submissions end at noon FRIDAY!!PLEASE check out my "other Thread" for a rather interesting Post from a guy who would "fit in" quite well over here. As Lars mentioned, why not stop by, read what he had to say, then invite him HERE??!! That's how it's done, Gents, IF we want to keep the bar up ‘n running . . . Customer Acknowledgments (since my last narrative)CM3 Shane (coalminer3) at 8:34 AM Wednesday - Aug 15th: I know I'm OLD when the ball players from my youth pass on to the diamond in the hereafter. The "Scooter" was a fine player ‘n broadcaster - but more importantly a person. Looking back to "my" Boys of Summer - Gil Hodges is gone - Jackie Robinson is gone - Roy (Campy) Campanella is gone - Carl (Skoonj) Furillo is gone - and on it goes. From the "enemy"Mickey (the Mick) Mantle is gone - Casey Stengel is gone - Hank Bauer is gone - Elston Howard is gone - and now Phil (Scooter) Rizutto. <sad>Cardinals are in no way out of it, but that's ONLY because they are in the Central Division. Still haven't gotten excited about his latest attempt to regain respectability. The super stars will have to become super, the kids keeping on keeping on and the pitching steady as she goes. If all of that falls into place, I'm a believer. <grin>That's quite an impressive amount of material regarding the Southern's Crescent! I haven't found the time to dig into my RR book archives to do further research on the Sunset Ltd. Anyway, thanx! Quarters, round, juke box selections ‘n conversation most appreciated! Lars (LoveDomes) at 10:29 AM Wednesday - Aug 15th: Figured you'd "hit" on at least one NYC streamlined locomotive! But TWO of ‘em!! Nice selections.You're "in" for the Contest, Aug 27th is the pick - thanx for playing along! I like this one from the Pennsy:PRR Q1 #6130 4-6-4-4 (1948) (fair use)We had tuckpointing done some years ago and man oh man was it expensive. Got the 3 estimates and so on - but still wound up costing a handful of bucks. Whatchagonnado when the chimney begins to fall apart?? Been there done that, good luck! Glad your roofing problem worked out . . . Some fine book covers for the Southern! I tried to find some, but you hit the "mother lode!"!!! Email received ‘n responded to - thanx!Round appreciated along with your continued support of "Our" Place!! Jan (JanOlov) at 11:03 AM Wednesday - Aug 15th: Nice looking "shrouded" steamers! Can't say that I'm enamored with any, but they surely introduced railroading to what was to come. Once the diesel era arrived, well it was Katy bar the door! I'm a diesel kinda fan, so perhaps ‘tis better to yield to those who have more going on the steam side than I. I see the Manager gotcha! <uh oh> Lars (LoveDomes) at 11:39 AM Wednesday - Aug 15th: Yeah, probably not a bad idea to "remind" every now ‘n then . . . that's what Manager's "do"! <grin>Jan (JanOlov) at 12:59 PM ‘n 2:17 PM 'n 2:33 PM Wednesday - Aug 15th: I see you "turned us to Page 96 ‘n heading to 100! We haven't had a Chief Chief ‘round here since Happy Railroading! Siberianmo JanOlov Member sinceDecember 2001 From: GB 376 posts Posted by JanOlov on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:25 PM Gentleman Tom and other gentlemen,Maybe we can have a trial period in the kitchen....Maybe I should point out that I prefer the OLD electrics, not much of a fan of the modern ones. The GG1 IS one grand looking lassie to say the least, how can you not like them?The only questions is though......Red or Green?Everybody, I'm off to my nightshift now, so everybody play nice and take care. All the best! Jan pwolfe Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: mid mo 1,054 posts Posted by pwolfe on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:36 PM Hi Tom and all.A pint of one of Mauldon's Summer ale please RUTH on this hot Mid Mo day.DL Glad you arrived in Toronto OK and great to get the postcard to the bar. You will have to tell us more about the Steam Whistle brewery in that old roundhouse, complete with tasting notes on the beer. DAVE Great to see you in, hope you can get a break from the hard work you have been doing lately.Many thanks for the drink and the wishes, although the wet kiss from BORIS.ERIC Many thanks for the great model photos you were able to take. How long did those Du2 electric locomotives remain in service with Swedish Railways. There is a good weathered look to the SP # 8326, I'm sure Dave will enjoy it. I will look forward to more photos when you can.The picture of the A4 was taken last year on the North Yorks Moors Railway; it was taken by Alan at one of their galas. Well done with the photo quiz, yes indeed it was taken the Netherlands on July 7 this year. Alan went on the trip. The photo was taken on the OOSTERHOUT WESTSTAD freight branch, it I have read Als notes right. I would be glad if you could have any details on the locomotive #6703, it looks like a variation of the German V200 diesels. I have a few more Alan took on the trip; I will try to post them Saturday.I see in the paper today, they have sailed a replica Viking longboat from Scandinavia to Dublin, although it was towed part of the way, as the wind would not co-operate, they sailed and rowed the boat most of the way. http://www.kansascity.com/news/world/story/232218.htmlCM3 Some paint schemes, like some locomotives, looked marvelous when clean but worse than awful when they were dirty.Have you ever seen a photo of the streamlining the Great Western applied to just a single King and Castle class It mainly consisted of a bulbous nose over the smokebox and a continuous splasher over the driving wheels. It did not suit the engines at all IMHO.JAN Thanks for the streamliner photos, they are good looking locomotives. I am greatly enjoying the talk and the favorites of the streamliners. In the UK, what streamlining there was, was removed soon after WWII apart from the A4s and they lost the valance over the wheels. O.V.S. Bullied of the Southern Railway of England produced the Merchant Navy and West Country/ Battle of Britain Pacifics, which had a casing, and they termed them ‘Air Smoothed' not streamlined. I have heard the reason for the casing was that an automated carriage washer could clean the locos at the same time as the cars, but whether this was done in practice I am not sure. All of the MNs and half of the WC/BBs were rebuilt in BR days with a traditional appearance.At the present time a preserved LMS Duchess class loco is having a streamline casing reapplied, when its is done the loco will be in the condition it toured parts of North America in the late 1930sIt would be great if you could tell us some of fireman experiences.LARS Evidence Evidence. I knew all these treats you give to the Mascots would be my undoing.Commodore Vanderbilt looks a fine locomotive and thanks for the Southern bookcovers. I thought that the Southern locomotive in the Smithsonian is a good-looking engine.I will have a look in at the other thread.RON Yes we have all you can eat buffets around here as well, it is so easy to eat too much in one of them.Enjoyed reading about the E6 No 460 and the DD-1s used in beating the airplanes in 1927. I wonder if 460 was saved as the 1950 memo and where she is today.TOM Yes still learning the language. In the UK Cricket is always a match whereas Football (soccer or rugby can be both I guess, as in "are you going to the game" or "are you going to the match") Do they call Boxing a Contest here.Many thanks for the link to the Mercia Charters tour in Luxemburg. They certainly had a good and interesting selection of locomotives as well as traveling over some interesting lines Gunneral Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: NZ 242 posts Posted by Gunneral on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:23 PM Hi Tom and all,Ruth a round please for all the crew, whatever they like!To all the crew, many thanks for all the birthday wishes mates`, I think it is now time to pull the "Reverse" lever, the numbers are getting way too high!We arrived back home from Auckland last night, Wednesday 15th Aug, we had to extend our trip due to my wife`s sister insisting on them doing a "Shop till you drop" outing "PLUS"!Have now got to catch up on all the posts` i`ve missed since being away, so I will get back in the groove ASAP! Did not have a chance to get on a PC at all!Good to see our missing buddies back on deck again, Jan mines a Glenfiddich mate.Just to remind everyone that New Zealand is one day ahead , we are 12hrs ahead of GMT, so each new day starts right here in little old NZ.Anyway, my best wishes to you all and I will get the chance to acknowledge you in my next post. It`s good to get back on board again.See ya soon, Allan JanOlov Member sinceDecember 2001 From: GB 376 posts Posted by JanOlov on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 11:33 PM Chief Tom and gentlemen.....Thursdays special: Haggis.Or: Swedish meatballs.With this you can choose either wine, beer or soft drinks. All the best! Jan JanOlov Member sinceDecember 2001 From: GB 376 posts Posted by JanOlov on Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:41 AM Brother Tom and gentlemen,Just to humour our electric following and myself of course....And some Swedish "stuff"...Forgot to mention as well that we've open a nice "salladsbar" in the corner, for those of us that are vegetarian.Well, I'm to bed after a hard days nightshift..... Have a pleasant day/evening everybody. All the best! Jan EricX2000 Member sinceDecember 2002 From: Phoenix, AZ 683 posts Posted by EricX2000 on Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:49 AM Good morning Captain Tom and Gentlemen!!Leon, I'll have an early breakfast, coffee and a big, fat Cheese Danish! Mmmm, that is good stuff!Quite an active day here today! Now we have to make sure to keep mit that way tomorrow while the Captain is busy doing other things!Tom – Thanks for the info on Sunset LImited/Crescent! I checked Wikipedia but they did not mention anything about running Sunset Limited on Southern’s tracks or any other connection to Southern. Interesting article about the TT scale! I’ve never had anything in TT scale though, but they were popular in Europe in the 60’-70’s as I recall. I remember Tri-ang model trains very well! CM3 – I bought that Tunnel motor as is for $25! A bargain. Runs real nice and I like that dirty apperance. Thanks for the info on Southern’s Crescent! 1930? That was a long time ago! PRR run it Washington - New York. Lars – I don’t need a layout, I need room for one! That is the problem I’ll try to solve when I retire. Good choice of book covers! Southern Railway! It is amazing how much admin work this place is creating for our manager! Maybe he needs more help? JanOlov – Very nice pictures of those streamliners! But I don’t know, pesonally I am not big on streamlined steam locomotives. I like locomotives showing their brutal force just by the way they look. Goes for all locomotives. So I am still thinking about my favorite.No reason was an apology! My heart surgery happened so fast and so unexpected that I still have a hard time to believe it really happened. Thanks for the nice words!GG1 is one of my favorites too. Nice pictures!I’ll take those Swedish Meatballs! They look very good! Including the lingonberries. Ron – I agree that the medical arts have come a long way the last 20 years. The way I have recovered after my surgery is just amazing. Never thought it was possible. But obviously it is and today I started my cardiac rehab. Yes, I used to work as a locomotive engineer, instructor and road foreman for many years. That was in the old country though. I spent about one year with Amtrak when they leased the X2000 for tests in 1992-93. Class Du2 (originally D) was designed in the 1920’s. The first ones were built in 1925. They remained in service until 1988. Several of them have been preserved. As an engineer I liked to operate Class D electrics over shorter distances. You knew you were running a train when sitting in one of them. Whatever you did, applying the brakes, adding more power, you could feel it, you could hear it and you could smell it. On longer distances they were tiresome though. Noisy and uncomfortable. A Class Du2 in 1975.Interesting story about those two memos! So a DD-1 was the finisher of that “race”! Pete – Class Du2, originally class D, were in service 1925-1988. 333 of them were built. A number of them have been preserved. Locomotive #6703 was originally a Belgian Railways Class 62. 1150 hp diesel engine. Traction effort, 212 kN. Built 1961 for passenger service but used for freight the last years of service. #6703 now belongs to a Dutch railroad, ATSC.Allan – Good to see you back again! No, there is no reason to pull the “Reverse” lever because the numbers are getting high. You are not older than you feel you are. According to my birth certificate I am 64 years old, but I feel like 27. So when people ask my age I am telling them 27. But since people tend to not quite believe me, because of some gray hairs and some wrinkles in my face, I tell them I am 27+. That is not a lie! Eric EricX2000 Member sinceDecember 2002 From: Phoenix, AZ 683 posts Posted by EricX2000 on Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:54 AM Ooops, I just discovered that JanOlov posted a whole bunch of electric locomotives! Some real nice ones. I'll be back later today and will make some comments then! Eric JanOlov Member sinceDecember 2001 From: GB 376 posts Posted by JanOlov on Thursday, August 16, 2007 4:51 AM Lord Tom and gentlemen.....Eric, you are most welcome. Also I know what you're talking about, I was once given the chance to drive the T-21 during transfer and switching in and around Stockholm. Whenever you accelerated or anything, you always ended up on the other side of the cab from where you started. I loved those D, Da, Du, Ma and F's ... They were alive more than any electrics today, beside the Dm-3 of course. I even miss that old SJ brown color that they had. Probably because back in the day , SJ was a safe employer, you had your "free" tickets for yourself and the family and I don't know how many summer holidays I spent in some old station or whatnot beside the tracks . The summers up north on the Malmabanan were the best with the long and heavy oretrains and midnightsun.Probably some of the reasons why my dad worked for them for over 40 years.... Sorry for the short trip down the memory lane folks. All the best! Jan siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts "Our" Place reborn! 3rd Year of adults 'n REAL Classic Trains in a special environment! Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, August 16, 2007 6:11 AM <courtesy: www.viarail.ca>G'day Gents! Mid-week report from HOT mid-continent USA! <phew> Crank the A/C down a bit, wudja Boris - we gotta get this joint back to long sleeves! Set another record with 105 (F) <40.56 (C)> on Wednesday <yuck> . . . .Just a matter of hours when Pete ‘n I will be riding the rails again. You'd think I'd have learned my lesson in Canada, eh Well, this is one of our "special" trips where we watch the Missouri landscape pass by, enjoying the conversation (every 3rd word for me!), the company ‘n the brew! <grin> I board at Kirkwood ‘n two hours later, Pete climbs on at Jefferson City. Another 3 hours ‘n we're in KCity, MO. A couple of hours there, and it's turn around time. I believe this is our 5th round-trip together aboard the "Mules." Anyway, looking forward to it . . . business class in the café car, ahhhh, life is good (IF the A/C is working ‘n the UP track work doesn't prevent us from being overly delayed!)Been quite awhile since I've made any positive comments about my Red Birds. But all of a sudden they are 3 games under .500 and within striking distance of the division leader. Last night the "MV3" of Pujols - Rolen 'n Edmonds came thru with homers. That along with outstanding starting pitching will tell the tale . . . Next few days will prove to be make or break . . . <verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting!> CONTEST underway: WHEN will we reach 100 Pages at the reborn Thread??? All we need is the date when you think we'll hit the century mark! (1) CM3 Shane sez Monday, Aug 20th(2) Jan sez Saturday, Aug 25th(3) Pete says Thursday, Aug 30th(4) Eric says Tuesday, Aug 21st(5) Lars says Monday, August 27th(6) Ron says Tuesday, Aug 21st (sorry, but only 1 winner for "ties" <frown>; changes permitted!)what's YOUR pick????CONTEST submissions end at noon TOMORROW!!Customer Acknowledgments (since my last narrative)Pete (pwolfe) at 4:35 PM Wednesday - Aug 15th: I'm hoping that the air conditioning in the business class ‘n café car sections of our train is running full bore! <phew> Been a hot couple of weeks, eh Don't know WHY I've remained in this part of the continent, for the heat overtakes me year after year . . . Whose turn to buy the beer?? <grin>Way back before I was born, my father went a few rounds in the ring as a prize fighter. In fact, as a kid I recall seeing a poster with his name on it - somewhere way down on the listings of preliminary bouts for a Jack Dempsey main event. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying - he didn't fight Jack,he was on the same fight card. Anway getting to yoru question, we always referred to them as "the fights," but I do recall hearing people referring to prize fights as boxing matches. But that was long, long ago - don't know in this day ‘n age.Glad you found the TT scale Post of interest . . . Interesting link on the Viking ship . . . wonder how many voyages were blown off course resulting in who knows what to those on board back in the days of the invaders from Scandinavia?!?!I wasn't sure about Jan accepting the job as Chief Chef, but as you'll see - he's jumped into the kitchen! Visit, chat ‘n round most welcome! See ya in a few hours . . . Allan (Gunneral) at 10:23 PM Wednesday - Aug 15th: Another "victim" of the shop-til-you-drop syndrome! <yikes> Glad you're back with us, Mate! Fill ‘er up - it's on the house! Round appreciated - regardless of the hour! <grin> Jan (JanOlov) at 11:33 PM Wednesday - Aug 15th: Appears that you've taken on the duties as Chief Chef with quite an offering for a Thursday Special - that's the way to go!! Just don't tell the guys what Haggis really IS. <ugh> <grin>As you'll note, we have "fixed' menus for Thursday - Friday ‘n Saturday. However, the Chief Chef is always encouraged to come up with specials . . . < Happy Railroading! Siberianmo pwolfe Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: mid mo 1,054 posts Posted by pwolfe on Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:36 AM Hi Tom and all.A quick bacon sarnie and a cup of coffee please RUTH.Just off in a while to catch the Amtrak to Kansas City and meet up with Tom.Looks some great posts since I was in last I shall enjoy reading them when I get backI thought I would do a post from a while back.NAMED LOCOMOTIVE OF THE BRITISH BIG FOUR RAILWAY COMPANIES.(Part 1)The many British railway companies were formed into was became known as the big four in 1923.As we talked about a while back at the bar the British companies had a way of naming their passenger locomotives. Before the grouping some railways were quite prolific in naming locos whereas others did not name them at all, but the big four all had named locomotives.GREAT WESTERNThe Great Western was the most unaffected by the grouping and they had always had a policy of naming their passenger locos.Apart from a solitary pacific built in the 1900s the GWR had no passenger loco bigger than a 4-6-0, and they named even their mixed traffic locos.The largest class of these was the 4900 Hall and 6959 Modified Hall, these engines totaled 329 locos and all were named after the stately homes although towards the end a lot of the Halls were nowhere near GW territory.A larger express passenger class was the 4073 class Castles there were 167 of these. As the name suggests the majority were named after Castles mainly in GW territory. The Great Western in 1936 needed some light locos to work on the ex Cambrian lines in Wales so they mated a Duke class type boiler with a Bulldog outside frames, these were much older classes and they looked it. Anyway they named these locos after Earls but it is said that when the noble gentlemen found out that there names were on such old fashioned looking locomotives they objected and the GWR rapidly applied their names to brand new Castle class locomotives. Also some Castles were named after aircraft used by the RAF in WWII, and a couple named Isambard Kingdom Brunel and Sir Daniel Gooch from the GWR's earliest days. The last Castle was a named Swindon after the works where the locos were built. The locos not named after Castles had as small plate below the main name that read ‘Castle Class'The largest GWR Express passenger locomotives were the 6000 class, which had the largest tractive effort of a loco in Britain at the time of their building. I have read that the strong rumour was that the 30 locos were the named after Cathedrals as a logical step from Castles, but from what I have read at the bar it seems the 'King' name was chosen for the class when the first loco of the class was to appear at the B&O Centennial celebration in the U.S.A.The locos were named from the King of the time, King George V in a descending order. The last two engines of the class were renamed as two new Kings of England ascended to the throne as the 6000s were in service. The last named Great Western locomotive class was the ‘County' a total of 30 engines introduced in 1945, these locos had straight nameplates where the others were curved. As the name suggests the class of 30 was named after Counties of England and Wales. F.W. Hawksworth who had followed C.B Collett as Chief Mechanical Engineer designed these locos. The Great western only had 7 CMEs from 1837 until nationalisation in 1948Other GWR Mixed traffic named locos was, the 1936 introduced Grange class of 80 locos and the 1938 Manor a class of 30.A GWR nameplate on a 'Hall' class 4-6-0 mixed traffic locomotive.SOUTHERN RAILWAY (SR).The SR was a bit more imaginative with their naming policy. The N15 class were named after characters from the King Arthur legends, the SR served lines in Cornwall where much of King Arthur's deeds are said to have taken place.Another class Lord Nelson was another great choice as the SR served Portsmouth and Plymouth to have famous British seafarers for this class of 16.The Southern built a class of Britain's most powerful 4-4-0s as late as 1930 the locos were named after famous English Public Schools. There were 40 locos in the class.Another link to the sea were O.V.S. Bullied's 1941 Merchant Navy class of 30 pacifics. These were named after shipping lines that served the ports connected to the SR, like Southampton. These were probably the most handsome nameplates, with the Shipping lines flag in the center of the nameplate. The nameplates were left and right handed so that the flag always appeared to be flying towards the rear of the locomotive. With a weight of 94 ¾ tons the MNs were too heavy for some routes and the West Country/ Battle of Britain class were introduced in 1945, with a weight of 86 tons. These 110 locos were basically the same with the West Countries named after towns in the West serving that area and the Battle of Britain serving the SR lines in Kent. These locos were named after Squadrons, Air Fields, Aircraft and people involved in the Battle of Britain. Often the West Countries had the crest of the town and the BBs the squadron badge above the nameplate to make another handsome plate.Pete. coalminer3 Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: WV 1,251 posts Posted by coalminer3 on Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:39 AM Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee please (New England Four Seasons Blend if you have it); round for the house and $ for the jukebox. We are supposed to be back on the hot side of things today, followed by thunderstorms, and maybe "cooler" tomorrow. Gas holding at $2.74.O.K. Here goes in no particular order.DD1 - Be watching your snailmail box for an envelope. I enjoyed rereading the story of the Lindbergh films. If you are interested in reading more about PRR E Class locomotives, try and get hold of a copy of Apex of the Atlantics.Jan Olov - Big Liz was way ahed of her time. She raised all kinds of !@#$ with running gear on freight cars; pulled drawheads, broken knuckles, etc. I'll take a GG1 in any color - red, green, or silver. Incidnetally, the book thread you have going is inetersting. Here's another MUST have for you. Metropolitan Corridor - simply excellemt!Yes I remember DL&W streamlined Pacifics - not in the flesh, but I have seen pictures of them. The NYC Hudson shot you posted was probably made at Harmon, although it is kind of hard to tell from the angle where the picture was made. The NH I5 was shot at the coal dock at Cedar Hill (New Haven). The coal dock is still there although much of the surrounding area has changed. You can see it coming into New Haven either from Springfield or Boston. NH 0312 was shot at New Haven, the station building which is right behind the locomotive still stands, has been refurbished and is used, OMG, as a railroad station - it's truly a busy place. NH0352 was also photographed at New Haven, in the "motor storage area" just west of the station. Look carefully at the 0352s running gear - look familiar?Lars Has visited with wide-ranging commentary. Hope you got to check out the Rizzuto slide show on the NYT site. Good coverage of SOU books - see end of this post.Allan - Good to hear from you. Pete - I have seen the picture you mentioned.Eric - You are right; PRR handled the segment between New York and Washington. The sample schedule I included shows who did what. Good deal on the electric and the tunnel motor. OSP sent information about T gauge. I remember that being the "minority" gauge when I started dabbling with model trains. "O" was still at the top, with "HO" coming up fast. "N" hadn't even been thought of. I made the jump from O to N in the late 60s when it first became readily available in the U.S. "Postage Stamp" trains, IIRC. They had a fine looking (for the time) C&O F unit which attracted my attention. BTW, you "did good" with your relay service as noted above - many thanks!Safe travels and have one (or five) for me! Know what you mean abiut a/c. Nearly expired in DC one evening when the air on 66's sleeper crapped out - it was like being in the "birdy boiler." They got it fixed but we were late getting out of town.Now, let's take a look at the "Sunset Crescent." This took a little time to sort out as there were several Crescents. We have already covered the Crescent Limited.Another train was the "Queen and Crescent Limited." The Queen and Crescent Route went back to a time before the formation of the Southern Railway, which, like many lines in that part of the country, was put together from a lot of different roads. The "Queen and Crescent" operated between Cincinnati and New Orleans. SOU handled it from Cincinnati to Meridian, MS. The Y&MV (Illinois Central) carried cars from Meridian to Shreveport, and the rest of the train ran to New Orleans from Meridian. Pullmans were available between Cincinnati and New Orleans, Birmingham and New Orleans, and Birmingham and Shreveport. Coaches and diner operated between Cincinnati and New Orleans.Looking around some more I came up with some advertising copy which said, "Across the Continent to California - via the Washington-Sunset Route." A 1930 ORG had the answer."Washington-Sunset Route Pullman Tourist Sleeping Car Daily Washington D.C. to Los Angeles, California via Atlanta, Montgomery, New Orleans, Houston, San Antonio, El Paso." Here is where it got interesting. The westbound car ran on the Southern's "Piedmont Limited" to New Orleans. SP's "Argonaut" carried it from New Orleans. Eastbound the car ran on the "Argonaut" to New Orleans and then on the "Atlanta-Washington Express." Interline routing was as follows: SOU: Washington-Atlanta; West Point Route: Atlanta-Montgomery; L&N: Montgomery-New Orleans; SP: New Orleans-to destination.The Southern also made much of "Crescent Limited/Sunset Limited" connections at New Orleans. I hope that gets things sorted out. I think Tex and I will go exploring on the Y&MV side - it's too hot for Frostbite, and Boris doesn't do well in the daylight.Work safe JanOlov Member sinceDecember 2001 From: GB 376 posts Posted by JanOlov on Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:40 AM Lord Tom and fellow gentlemen,As above mentioned.....Thursdays: Fish & chips....Fridays: Pizza with all the toppings imaginable...Saturdays: Fair sized steaks....And the rest of the time there'll always be a plate or two out with freshly made sanwiches...Occasionally We'll make something from the cookbooks of beloved but sadly gone railroads..... NP, Milw, GN, IC, NYNH&H, NYC, PRR......the list goes on. All the best! Jan JanOlov Member sinceDecember 2001 From: GB 376 posts Posted by JanOlov on Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:51 AM Greetings Master Tom and fellow railway connoisseurs....New plans for Fridays. I was thinking that the last Friday we'll have as earlier mentioned a railway speciality. This Month it'll be Northern Pacifics Great Big Baked Potato.Of course the NP's own dessert comes with it.May the FORCE be with you. All the best! Jan « First«61626364656667»Last » SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter Submit More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
To the TT Scale On-Line Home page
What is TT scale? TT scale is a model railroad scale whose size falls in between HO and N scale. It's actual scale measurement is 1/120, or 0.10 inch = one foot, or one inch = ten feet. It's track gauge was set at 0.471 inch or 15/32. 12mm is currently the accepted gauge, which is 0.472 inch. TT scale was once the smallest practical model railroad scale available, and quite popular, even though it was (and is) primarily a craftsman's scale (Almost everything was assembled from kits or scratch built.). You could say that TT scale is close to HOn3. So you can have a main line model railroad in the same space as an HO narrow gauge railroad.
Where did it come from? TT scale was the invention of an engineer by the name of Hal Joyce around 1940, who also created HP Products, but commercial production was delayed until 1945 because of the war. HP brought out an extensive line of locomotives, cars, track, and accessories. Other manufacturers also joined the ranks of TT scale producing items. Gandy Dancer, Jewel, Craftsman, Star-Line, Kemtron, and Christoph Products just to name a few. TT was a fairly popular scale through the 1950's.
Why haven't I heard of TT scale before this? TT scale has very few followers or modelers in the United States today. Most of the major model railroading publications do not even acknowledge that it exists. When N scale made it's appearance in the 1960's, and using better manufacturing processes that made superior detailing possible, as well as cheap ready to run equipment, TT scale declined rapidly. But because of the Internet, TT'ers have started to come together for modeling discussions, and to voice their needs and wants. Thus, more modelers are hearing about TT scale today.
Is TT scale popular anywhere? Yes. TT scale is very popular in the European countries. Rokal, in Germany, started manufacturing some items in 1949, and by 1952 had a full line of engines, cars, track, and accessories available. Other manufacturers in Germany and other countries also started manufacturing TT scale items. TT scale in Europe is second only to HO scale, and is gaining.
What is available in TT scale? If you want to model European railroads, everything is available, ready to run. If you want to model North American railroads, items are available as well, but not in the variety and quantity that they are for European model railroads. Locomotive types are limited, as are cars, buildings, and accessories, and all are in kit form. But things are getting better. Since the track is the same gauge for European TT and American TT, it is readily available and is a very good quality product. Tillig (in Germany) has the most complete line of track and turnout items including curved turnouts and double-slip switches. These are available from Euro Train Hobby who has an extensive web site. Most other American items are from left over stock of the original TT scale manufacturers, or from cottage industries casting items in resin. European and Australian locomotive drive kits can be used for engines, but they are still kits.
What is the minimum radius for TT scale? The accepted minimum radius is 14 inches, although you can possibly go down to 12 inches, but you will be limited on some equipment that can be used. The NMRA has a section or list of Recommended practices for TT scale. These can be seen at the NMRA web site.
Where can I get TT scale items? European TT scale trains can be gotten from Europe of course, but also from importers such as Euro Train Hobby in New Jersey. American TT items can be gotten from some of the old timers that are selling off their excess stock, such as Larry Sayre formerly LarCo Models, and John Harmon, formerly Allegheny Model Products. Also, some of the newer manufactures / modelers have a good variety of items from engines, cars, buildings, and other accessories, all in kit form. These items can be found through searches on the Internet. The primary web site for these items is http://www.ttscale.com. However, there are also a few other small manufacturers out there that have TT scale items available who are not associated with ttscale.com such as BTS and Sleepy Hollow Models, so a good Internet search of TT scale will certainly produce some good results. Also, eBay seems to have TT scale items on there quite regularly. You must search in Model Railroading, "other scales" and "TT" to bring up the list. Also you can search "120" as well. An NMRA type standards gauge and a TT scale ruller are available from Coastal Engineering, who has a listing on www.ttscale.com.
Is TT scale more expensive than other scales? TT scale trains and kits are priced about the same as HO and N scale items. Some items may be less, some more. Because TT scale in America today is supported solely by a cottage industry, some items may be produced and sold in limited numbers. The older and original TT scale items may be more expensive, as some are starting to view them as collectable. However, there are still some good running original HP steam locomotives available for a reasonable price.
Wher Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
Master Tom and fellow forum travellers....
DD1, I have to say that I do enjoy electrics as well, indeed I do, may it boxcabs, bipolar, GG1 you name it. But I'm heavy into steam , I used to work as fireman occasionally. I enjoy early and second generation diesel and as mentioned above electrics though.
Just run across Big Liz for the first time today and I thought
Eric, I'm slightly embarrassed here to have missed your heartsurgery and I sincerely apologise for that. My deepest and most sincere well wishes for a speedy recovery goes out to you.
My dad have a heart problem too, which has caused me some scary moments here in Glasgow, since they still live in my native Sweden.
So here's to your health Eric...
For all, I hope that you all are enjoying a good day/night.
Sir Tom,
You can't beat a good friendly banter between two friends, it's all in good fun.
Which reminds me of a serious banter I had with one of my best friends in Sweden who's DL&W, Erie and EL fanatic.
Anyhoo, we were at one of the local stores to pick some stuff for dinners etc, as during this time I helped him with the house and modelrailroad.
As we had walking around picking up things to use, the devil flew into us and we started arguing severely with some language and namecalling etc.
"if you weren't so stupid this wouldn't be so diffcult for you to understand. But since your parents dropped you heardfirst into the floor, I guess that it's something I have to put up with.... "
This went on for the rest of time in the store until we reached the checkout. We were still going on back and forth.
The poor lady sitting at the checkout looked worried and said: now, now boys you should argue....blah blah and all that.
Then we couldn't keep our straight faces and began laughing whereupon she looked somewhat confused. We felt rather guilty and explained it all to her....
I just thought I would stick my head in the door again rather than edit my previous post. Drinks as usual and a quicky for me.
For Jan: I was brought up alongside electrics on the LIRR. At that time in my life, motive power on the LIRR was composed of DD-1's operating on the electrified portion of the RR. E6 Atlantics took trains on the non-electrified routes. Some routes were handled by MU. Alco and Fairbanks Morse diesels were the first ones to work on the line and handled all the freight traffic. The Sunnyside yards were handled by B-1 electrics and the Alco's and FM's. The electrics were finally phased out except for the trip under the East river to Penn station. Today, they have diesels that convert to electric power alone for the tunnel trips. How I miss that ozone smell of the DC engines when the speed control contactors would make and break.
Thought I'd get a leg up on the Acknowledgments since I may not have time in the 'morrow . . .
CONTEST underway: It's that time again for an "Our" Place test of judgment! WHEN will we reach 100 Pages at the reborn Thread??? Shouldn't be all that difficult to measure, however, getting PARTICIPATION before I close it up is more of the challenge. All we need is the date (day/month) when you think we'll hit the century mark!
(1) CM3 Shane sez Monday, Aug 20th
(2) Jan sez Saturday, Aug 25th
(3) Pete says Thursday, Aug 30th
(4) Eric says Tuesday, Aug 21st
(5) Lars says Monday, August 27th
(6) Ron says Tuesday, Aug 21st (sorry, but only 1 winner for "ties" <frown>; changes permitted!)
what's YOUR pick????
CONTEST submissions end at noon FRIDAY!!
PLEASE check out my "other Thread" for a rather interesting Post from a guy who would "fit in" quite well over here. As Lars mentioned, why not stop by, read what he had to say, then invite him HERE??!! That's how it's done, Gents, IF we want to keep the bar up ‘n running . . .
CM3 Shane (coalminer3) at 8:34 AM Wednesday - Aug 15th: I know I'm OLD when the ball players from my youth pass on to the diamond in the hereafter. The "Scooter" was a fine player ‘n broadcaster - but more importantly a person.
Looking back to "my" Boys of Summer - Gil Hodges is gone - Jackie Robinson is gone - Roy (Campy) Campanella is gone - Carl (Skoonj) Furillo is gone - and on it goes. From the "enemy"Mickey (the Mick) Mantle is gone - Casey Stengel is gone - Hank Bauer is gone - Elston Howard is gone - and now Phil (Scooter) Rizutto. <sad>
Cardinals are in no way out of it, but that's ONLY because they are in the Central Division. Still haven't gotten excited about his latest attempt to regain respectability. The super stars will have to become super, the kids keeping on keeping on and the pitching steady as she goes. If all of that falls into place, I'm a believer. <grin>
That's quite an impressive amount of material regarding the Southern's Crescent! I haven't found the time to dig into my RR book archives to do further research on the Sunset Ltd. Anyway, thanx!
Quarters, round, juke box selections ‘n conversation most appreciated!
Lars (LoveDomes) at 10:29 AM Wednesday - Aug 15th: Figured you'd "hit" on at least one NYC streamlined locomotive! But TWO of ‘em!! Nice selections.
You're "in" for the Contest, Aug 27th is the pick - thanx for playing along!
I like this one from the Pennsy:
PRR Q1 #6130 4-6-4-4 (1948) (fair use)
We had tuckpointing done some years ago and man oh man was it expensive. Got the 3 estimates and so on - but still wound up costing a handful of bucks. Whatchagonnado when the chimney begins to fall apart?? Been there done that, good luck! Glad your roofing problem worked out . . .
Some fine book covers for the Southern! I tried to find some, but you hit the "mother lode!"!!!
Email received ‘n responded to - thanx!
Round appreciated along with your continued support of "Our" Place!!
Jan (JanOlov) at 11:03 AM Wednesday - Aug 15th: Nice looking "shrouded" steamers! Can't say that I'm enamored with any, but they surely introduced railroading to what was to come. Once the diesel era arrived, well it was Katy bar the door!
I'm a diesel kinda fan, so perhaps ‘tis better to yield to those who have more going on the steam side than I.
I see the Manager gotcha! <uh oh>
Lars (LoveDomes) at 11:39 AM Wednesday - Aug 15th: Yeah, probably not a bad idea to "remind" every now ‘n then . . . that's what Manager's "do"! <grin>
Jan (JanOlov) at 12:59 PM ‘n 2:17 PM 'n 2:33 PM Wednesday - Aug 15th: I see you "turned us to Page 96 ‘n heading to 100!
We haven't had a Chief Chief ‘round here since
Gentleman Tom and other gentlemen,
Maybe we can have a trial period in the kitchen....
Maybe I should point out that I prefer the OLD electrics, not much of a fan of the modern ones.
The GG1 IS one grand looking lassie to say the least, how can you not like them?
The only questions is though......Red or Green?
Everybody, I'm off to my nightshift now, so everybody play nice and take care.
A pint of one of Mauldon's Summer ale please RUTH on this hot Mid Mo day.
DL Glad you arrived in Toronto OK and great to get the postcard to the bar. You will have to tell us more about the Steam Whistle brewery in that old roundhouse, complete with tasting notes on the beer.
DAVE Great to see you in, hope you can get a break from the hard work you have been doing lately.
Many thanks for the drink and the wishes, although the wet kiss from BORIS.
ERIC Many thanks for the great model photos you were able to take. How long did those Du2 electric locomotives remain in service with Swedish Railways. There is a good weathered look to the SP # 8326, I'm sure Dave will enjoy it. I will look forward to more photos when you can.
The picture of the A4 was taken last year on the North Yorks Moors Railway; it was taken by Alan at one of their galas.
Well done with the photo quiz, yes indeed it was taken the Netherlands on July 7 this year. Alan went on the trip. The photo was taken on the OOSTERHOUT WESTSTAD freight branch, it I have read Als notes right. I would be glad if you could have any details on the locomotive #6703, it looks like a variation of the German V200 diesels. I have a few more Alan took on the trip; I will try to post them Saturday.
I see in the paper today, they have sailed a replica Viking longboat from Scandinavia to Dublin, although it was towed part of the way, as the wind would not co-operate, they sailed and rowed the boat most of the way.
http://www.kansascity.com/news/world/story/232218.html
CM3 Some paint schemes, like some locomotives, looked marvelous when clean but worse than awful when they were dirty.
Have you ever seen a photo of the streamlining the Great Western applied to just a single King and Castle class It mainly consisted of a bulbous nose over the smokebox and a continuous splasher over the driving wheels. It did not suit the engines at all IMHO.
JAN Thanks for the streamliner photos, they are good looking locomotives. I am greatly enjoying the talk and the favorites of the streamliners. In the UK, what streamlining there was, was removed soon after WWII apart from the A4s and they lost the valance over the wheels. O.V.S. Bullied of the Southern Railway of England produced the Merchant Navy and West Country/ Battle of Britain Pacifics, which had a casing, and they termed them ‘Air Smoothed' not streamlined. I have heard the reason for the casing was that an automated carriage washer could clean the locos at the same time as the cars, but whether this was done in practice I am not sure. All of the MNs and half of the WC/BBs were rebuilt in BR days with a traditional appearance.
At the present time a preserved LMS Duchess class loco is having a streamline casing reapplied, when its is done the loco will be in the condition it toured parts of North America in the late 1930s
It would be great if you could tell us some of fireman experiences.
LARS Evidence Evidence. I knew all these treats you give to the Mascots would be my undoing.
Commodore Vanderbilt looks a fine locomotive and thanks for the Southern bookcovers. I thought that the Southern locomotive in the Smithsonian is a good-looking engine.
I will have a look in at the other thread.
RON Yes we have all you can eat buffets around here as well, it is so easy to eat too much in one of them.
Enjoyed reading about the E6 No 460 and the DD-1s used in beating the airplanes in 1927. I wonder if 460 was saved as the 1950 memo and where she is today.
TOM Yes still learning the language. In the UK Cricket is always a match whereas Football (soccer or rugby can be both I guess, as in "are you going to the game" or "are you going to the match") Do they call Boxing a Contest here.
Many thanks for the link to the Mercia Charters tour in Luxemburg. They certainly had a good and interesting selection of locomotives as well as traveling over some interesting lines
Hi Tom and all,
Ruth a round please for all the crew, whatever they like!
To all the crew, many thanks for all the birthday wishes mates`, I think it is now time to pull the "Reverse" lever, the numbers are getting way too high!
We arrived back home from Auckland last night, Wednesday 15th Aug, we had to extend our trip due to my wife`s sister insisting on them doing a "Shop till you drop" outing "PLUS"!
Have now got to catch up on all the posts` i`ve missed since being away, so I will get back in the groove ASAP! Did not have a chance to get on a PC at all!
Good to see our missing buddies back on deck again, Jan mines a Glenfiddich mate.
Just to remind everyone that New Zealand is one day ahead , we are 12hrs ahead of GMT, so each new day starts right here in little old NZ.
Anyway, my best wishes to you all and I will get the chance to acknowledge you in my next post. It`s good to get back on board again.
See ya soon, Allan
Chief Tom and gentlemen.....
Thursdays special: Haggis.
Or: Swedish meatballs.
With this you can choose either wine, beer or soft drinks.
Brother Tom and gentlemen,
Just to humour our electric following and myself of course....
And some Swedish "stuff"...
Forgot to mention as well that we've open a nice "salladsbar" in the corner, for those of us that are vegetarian.
Well, I'm to bed after a hard days nightshift..... Have a pleasant day/evening everybody.
Leon, I'll have an early breakfast, coffee and a big, fat Cheese Danish! Mmmm, that is good stuff!
Quite an active day here today! Now we have to make sure to keep mit that way tomorrow while the Captain is busy doing other things!
Tom – Thanks for the info on Sunset LImited/Crescent! I checked Wikipedia but they did not mention anything about running Sunset Limited on Southern’s tracks or any other connection to Southern.
Interesting article about the TT scale! I’ve never had anything in TT scale though, but they were popular in Europe in the 60’-70’s as I recall. I remember Tri-ang model trains very well! CM3 – I bought that Tunnel motor as is for $25! A bargain. Runs real nice and I like that dirty apperance. Thanks for the info on Southern’s Crescent! 1930? That was a long time ago! PRR run it Washington - New York. Lars – I don’t need a layout, I need room for one! That is the problem I’ll try to solve when I retire. Good choice of book covers! Southern Railway! It is amazing how much admin work this place is creating for our manager! Maybe he needs more help? JanOlov – Very nice pictures of those streamliners! But I don’t know, pesonally I am not big on streamlined steam locomotives. I like locomotives showing their brutal force just by the way they look. Goes for all locomotives. So I am still thinking about my favorite.No reason was an apology! My heart surgery happened so fast and so unexpected that I still have a hard time to believe it really happened. Thanks for the nice words!GG1 is one of my favorites too. Nice pictures!I’ll take those Swedish Meatballs! They look very good! Including the lingonberries. Ron – I agree that the medical arts have come a long way the last 20 years. The way I have recovered after my surgery is just amazing. Never thought it was possible. But obviously it is and today I started my cardiac rehab. Yes, I used to work as a locomotive engineer, instructor and road foreman for many years. That was in the old country though. I spent about one year with Amtrak when they leased the X2000 for tests in 1992-93. Class Du2 (originally D) was designed in the 1920’s. The first ones were built in 1925. They remained in service until 1988. Several of them have been preserved. As an engineer I liked to operate Class D electrics over shorter distances. You knew you were running a train when sitting in one of them. Whatever you did, applying the brakes, adding more power, you could feel it, you could hear it and you could smell it. On longer distances they were tiresome though. Noisy and uncomfortable.
A Class Du2 in 1975.Interesting story about those two memos! So a DD-1 was the finisher of that “race”! Pete – Class Du2, originally class D, were in service 1925-1988. 333 of them were built. A number of them have been preserved. Locomotive #6703 was originally a Belgian Railways Class 62. 1150 hp diesel engine. Traction effort, 212 kN. Built 1961 for passenger service but used for freight the last years of service. #6703 now belongs to a Dutch railroad, ATSC.Allan – Good to see you back again! No, there is no reason to pull the “Reverse” lever because the numbers are getting high. You are not older than you feel you are. According to my birth certificate I am 64 years old, but I feel like 27. So when people ask my age I am telling them 27. But since people tend to not quite believe me, because of some gray hairs and some wrinkles in my face, I tell them I am 27+. That is not a lie!
Ooops, I just discovered that JanOlov posted a whole bunch of electric locomotives! Some real nice ones. I'll be back later today and will make some comments then!
Lord Tom and gentlemen.....
Eric, you are most welcome. Also I know what you're talking about, I was once given the chance to drive the T-21 during transfer and switching in and around Stockholm. Whenever you accelerated or anything, you always ended up on the other side of the cab from where you started.
I loved those D, Da, Du, Ma and F's ... They were alive more than any electrics today, beside the Dm-3 of course. I even miss that old SJ brown color that they had. Probably because back in the day , SJ was a safe employer, you had your "free" tickets for yourself and the family and I don't know how many summer holidays I spent in some old station or whatnot beside the tracks . The summers up north on the Malmabanan were the best with the long and heavy oretrains and midnightsun.
Probably some of the reasons why my dad worked for them for over 40 years....
Sorry for the short trip down the memory lane folks.
Mid-week report from HOT mid-continent USA! <phew> Crank the A/C down a bit, wudja Boris - we gotta get this joint back to long sleeves! Set another record with 105 (F) <40.56 (C)> on Wednesday <yuck> . . . .
Just a matter of hours when Pete ‘n I will be riding the rails again. You'd think I'd have learned my lesson in Canada, eh Well, this is one of our "special" trips where we watch the Missouri landscape pass by, enjoying the conversation (every 3rd word for me!), the company ‘n the brew! <grin> I board at Kirkwood ‘n two hours later, Pete climbs on at Jefferson City. Another 3 hours ‘n we're in KCity, MO. A couple of hours there, and it's turn around time. I believe this is our 5th round-trip together aboard the "Mules." Anyway, looking forward to it . . . business class in the café car, ahhhh, life is good (IF the A/C is working ‘n the UP track work doesn't prevent us from being overly delayed!)
Been quite awhile since I've made any positive comments about my Red Birds. But all of a sudden they are 3 games under .500 and within striking distance of the division leader. Last night the "MV3" of Pujols - Rolen 'n Edmonds came thru with homers. That along with outstanding starting pitching will tell the tale . . . Next few days will prove to be make or break . . . <verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting!>
CONTEST underway: WHEN will we reach 100 Pages at the reborn Thread??? All we need is the date when you think we'll hit the century mark!
CONTEST submissions end at noon TOMORROW!!
Pete (pwolfe) at 4:35 PM Wednesday - Aug 15th: I'm hoping that the air conditioning in the business class ‘n café car sections of our train is running full bore! <phew> Been a hot couple of weeks, eh Don't know WHY I've remained in this part of the continent, for the heat overtakes me year after year . . . Whose turn to buy the beer?? <grin>
Way back before I was born, my father went a few rounds in the ring as a prize fighter. In fact, as a kid I recall seeing a poster with his name on it - somewhere way down on the listings of preliminary bouts for a Jack Dempsey main event. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying - he didn't fight Jack,he was on the same fight card.
Anway getting to yoru question, we always referred to them as "the fights," but I do recall hearing people referring to prize fights as boxing matches. But that was long, long ago - don't know in this day ‘n age.
Glad you found the TT scale Post of interest . . .
Interesting link on the Viking ship . . . wonder how many voyages were blown off course resulting in who knows what to those on board back in the days of the invaders from Scandinavia?!?!
I wasn't sure about Jan accepting the job as Chief Chef, but as you'll see - he's jumped into the kitchen!
Visit, chat ‘n round most welcome!
See ya in a few hours . . .
Allan (Gunneral) at 10:23 PM Wednesday - Aug 15th: Another "victim" of the shop-til-you-drop syndrome! <yikes> Glad you're back with us, Mate! Fill ‘er up - it's on the house!
Round appreciated - regardless of the hour! <grin>
Jan (JanOlov) at 11:33 PM Wednesday - Aug 15th: Appears that you've taken on the duties as Chief Chef with quite an offering for a Thursday Special - that's the way to go!! Just don't tell the guys what Haggis really IS. <ugh> <grin>
As you'll note, we have "fixed' menus for Thursday - Friday ‘n Saturday. However, the Chief Chef is always encouraged to come up with specials . . .
<
A quick bacon sarnie and a cup of coffee please RUTH.
Just off in a while to catch the Amtrak to Kansas City and meet up with Tom.Looks some great posts since I was in last I shall enjoy reading them when I get back
I thought I would do a post from a while back.
NAMED LOCOMOTIVE OF THE BRITISH BIG FOUR RAILWAY COMPANIES.(Part 1)
The many British railway companies were formed into was became known as the big four in 1923.
As we talked about a while back at the bar the British companies had a way of naming their passenger locomotives. Before the grouping some railways were quite prolific in naming locos whereas others did not name them at all, but the big four all had named locomotives.
GREAT WESTERN
The Great Western was the most unaffected by the grouping and they had always had a policy of naming their passenger locos.
Apart from a solitary pacific built in the 1900s the GWR had no passenger loco bigger than a
4-6-0, and they named even their mixed traffic locos.
The largest class of these was the 4900 Hall and 6959 Modified Hall, these engines totaled 329 locos and all were named after the stately homes although towards the end a lot of the Halls were nowhere near GW territory.
A larger express passenger class was the 4073 class Castles there were 167 of these. As the name suggests the majority were named after Castles mainly in GW territory. The Great Western in 1936 needed some light locos to work on the ex Cambrian lines in Wales so they mated a Duke class type boiler with a Bulldog outside frames, these were much older classes and they looked it. Anyway they named these locos after Earls but it is said that when the noble gentlemen found out that there names were on such old fashioned looking locomotives they objected and the GWR rapidly applied their names to brand new Castle class locomotives. Also some Castles were named after aircraft used by the RAF in WWII, and a couple named Isambard Kingdom Brunel and Sir Daniel Gooch from the GWR's earliest days. The last Castle was a named Swindon after the works where the locos were built. The locos not named after Castles had as small plate below the main name that read ‘Castle Class'
The largest GWR Express passenger locomotives were the 6000 class, which had the largest tractive effort of a loco in Britain at the time of their building. I have read that the strong rumour was that the 30 locos were the named after Cathedrals as a logical step from Castles, but from what I have read at the bar it seems the 'King' name was chosen for the class when the first loco of the class was to appear at the B&O Centennial celebration in the U.S.A.
The locos were named from the King of the time, King George V in a descending order. The last two engines of the class were renamed as two new Kings of England ascended to the throne as the 6000s were in service.
The last named Great Western locomotive class was the ‘County' a total of 30 engines introduced in 1945, these locos had straight nameplates where the others were curved. As the name suggests the class of 30 was named after Counties of England and Wales. F.W. Hawksworth who had followed C.B Collett as Chief Mechanical Engineer designed these locos. The Great western only had 7 CMEs from 1837 until nationalisation in 1948
Other GWR Mixed traffic named locos was, the 1936 introduced Grange class of 80 locos and the 1938 Manor a class of 30.
A GWR nameplate on a 'Hall' class 4-6-0 mixed traffic locomotive.
SOUTHERN RAILWAY (SR).
The SR was a bit more imaginative with their naming policy. The N15 class were named after characters from the King Arthur legends, the SR served lines in Cornwall where much of King Arthur's deeds are said to have taken place.
Another class Lord Nelson was another great choice as the SR served Portsmouth and Plymouth to have famous British seafarers for this class of 16.
The Southern built a class of Britain's most powerful 4-4-0s as late as 1930 the locos were named after famous English Public Schools. There were 40 locos in the class.
Another link to the sea were O.V.S. Bullied's 1941 Merchant Navy class of 30 pacifics. These were named after shipping lines that served the ports connected to the SR, like Southampton. These were probably the most handsome nameplates, with the Shipping lines flag in the center of the nameplate. The nameplates were left and right handed so that the flag always appeared to be flying towards the rear of the locomotive. With a weight of 94 ¾ tons the MNs were too heavy for some routes and the West Country/ Battle of Britain class were introduced in 1945, with a weight of 86 tons.
These 110 locos were basically the same with the West Countries named after towns in the West serving that area and the Battle of Britain serving the SR lines in Kent. These locos were named after Squadrons, Air Fields, Aircraft and people involved in the Battle of Britain. Often the West Countries had the crest of the town and the BBs the squadron badge above the nameplate to make another handsome plate.
Pete.
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee please (New England Four Seasons Blend if you have it); round for the house and $ for the jukebox. We are supposed to be back on the hot side of things today, followed by thunderstorms, and maybe "cooler" tomorrow. Gas holding at $2.74.
O.K. Here goes in no particular order.
DD1 - Be watching your snailmail box for an envelope. I enjoyed rereading the story of the Lindbergh films. If you are interested in reading more about PRR E Class locomotives, try and get hold of a copy of Apex of the Atlantics.
Jan Olov - Big Liz was way ahed of her time. She raised all kinds of !@#$ with running gear on freight cars; pulled drawheads, broken knuckles, etc. I'll take a GG1 in any color - red, green, or silver. Incidnetally, the book thread you have going is inetersting. Here's another MUST have for you. Metropolitan Corridor - simply excellemt!
Yes I remember DL&W streamlined Pacifics - not in the flesh, but I have seen pictures of them. The NYC Hudson shot you posted was probably made at Harmon, although it is kind of hard to tell from the angle where the picture was made. The NH I5 was shot at the coal dock at Cedar Hill (New Haven). The coal dock is still there although much of the surrounding area has changed. You can see it coming into New Haven either from Springfield or Boston. NH 0312 was shot at New Haven, the station building which is right behind the locomotive still stands, has been refurbished and is used, OMG, as a railroad station - it's truly a busy place. NH0352 was also photographed at New Haven, in the "motor storage area" just west of the station. Look carefully at the 0352s running gear - look familiar?
Lars Has visited with wide-ranging commentary. Hope you got to check out the Rizzuto slide show on the NYT site. Good coverage of SOU books - see end of this post.
Allan - Good to hear from you.
Pete - I have seen the picture you mentioned.
Eric - You are right; PRR handled the segment between New York and Washington. The sample schedule I included shows who did what. Good deal on the electric and the tunnel motor.
OSP sent information about T gauge. I remember that being the "minority" gauge when I started dabbling with model trains. "O" was still at the top, with "HO" coming up fast. "N" hadn't even been thought of. I made the jump from O to N in the late 60s when it first became readily available in the U.S. "Postage Stamp" trains, IIRC. They had a fine looking (for the time) C&O F unit which attracted my attention. BTW, you "did good" with your relay service as noted above - many thanks!
Safe travels and have one (or five) for me! Know what you mean abiut a/c. Nearly expired in DC one evening when the air on 66's sleeper crapped out - it was like being in the "birdy boiler." They got it fixed but we were late getting out of town.
Now, let's take a look at the "Sunset Crescent." This took a little time to sort out as there were several Crescents.
We have already covered the Crescent Limited.
Another train was the "Queen and Crescent Limited." The Queen and Crescent Route went back to a time before the formation of the Southern Railway, which, like many lines in that part of the country, was put together from a lot of different roads. The "Queen and Crescent" operated between Cincinnati and New Orleans. SOU handled it from Cincinnati to Meridian, MS. The Y&MV (Illinois Central) carried cars from Meridian to Shreveport, and the rest of the train ran to New Orleans from Meridian. Pullmans were available between Cincinnati and New Orleans, Birmingham and New Orleans, and Birmingham and Shreveport. Coaches and diner operated between Cincinnati and New Orleans.
Looking around some more I came up with some advertising copy which said, "Across the Continent to California - via the Washington-Sunset Route." A 1930 ORG had the answer.
"Washington-Sunset Route Pullman Tourist Sleeping Car Daily Washington D.C. to Los Angeles, California via Atlanta, Montgomery, New Orleans, Houston, San Antonio, El Paso." Here is where it got interesting. The westbound car ran on the Southern's "Piedmont Limited" to New Orleans. SP's "Argonaut" carried it from New Orleans. Eastbound the car ran on the "Argonaut" to New Orleans and then on the "Atlanta-Washington Express." Interline routing was as follows: SOU: Washington-Atlanta; West Point Route: Atlanta-Montgomery; L&N: Montgomery-New Orleans; SP: New Orleans-to destination.
The Southern also made much of "Crescent Limited/Sunset Limited" connections at New Orleans.
I hope that gets things sorted out. I think Tex and I will go exploring on the Y&MV side - it's too hot for Frostbite, and Boris doesn't do well in the daylight.
Lord Tom and fellow gentlemen,
As above mentioned.....
Thursdays: Fish & chips....
Fridays: Pizza with all the toppings imaginable...
Saturdays: Fair sized steaks....
And the rest of the time there'll always be a plate or two out with freshly made sanwiches...
Occasionally We'll make something from the cookbooks of beloved but sadly gone railroads..... NP, Milw, GN, IC, NYNH&H, NYC, PRR......the list goes on.
Greetings Master Tom and fellow railway connoisseurs....
New plans for Fridays. I was thinking that the last Friday we'll have as earlier mentioned a railway speciality. This Month it'll be Northern Pacifics Great Big Baked Potato.
Of course the NP's own dessert comes with it.
May the FORCE be with you.
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