"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[Anonymous]

Good morning Tom ... I'll have coffee grounds on whole-wheat toast please.
As promised, I took another goof-off-day from work to do some REAL work on our U30C at IRM. (Did I mention I have my own keys?) The only problem with working during the week is that our diner is not open, and that means that this cyclist has to bike into town for lunch. That's not all bad though, as The Checkers II tavern on Union Rd. has an excellent menu!
This may be the last really warm day we have in Chicagoland. It's been warm and muggy recently, with spectacular thunder storms and downpours recently. My Halloween decorations are up ... are yours?
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7191/2005halloweendeck2fg.jpg
Have a great day!

[siberianmo]

G'mornin' Gang!

It's gonna be 90 (F) here in mid-continent USA, then drop like a rock in a day or two - back to fall. That's just the way it IS 'round these parts. I'm not a "wooly worm" follower, but the indications are we are in for yet another mild winter with below normal precipitation and little snow. Yuck.

I noticed that we had 24 Posts recorded on the Tuesday's Summary - not bad for a Monday gathering. Seems like there were very looooooooong periods of nothing, then the crunch. Happens. Keep 'er going guys. [tup]

I'm still a bit overwhelmed by the outpouring from a couple of the guys yesterday - kinda puts things in a different light. I'll have to watch myself in the future ....... [swg]

pwolfe Pete Email has been responded to .........

barndad Doug Nope, we're not "into" outside decorations for Halloween. Although, what you've done looks great! [tup] Now IF that was your front door, the kids would have a problem getting to ya! [swg]

I suppose now we can refer to you as the "Key Man" at IRM, eh [?] Whaddyamean the Checkers II Tavern [?]! We are the place for you to eat, not the competition. Geesh! [tdn] Oooooooops, there I go again, mixing the real 'n cyber worlds. Weird, isn't it [?]

Think about what you'll Post for Sunday's Photo Posting Day! Looks like our once per week pix review is working fine and we appreciate your contributions.

For all: By the by - as I stated a couple of times yesterday - Cindy will have the bar from about 9 AM 'til 5 PM, then Leon the Night Man takes over. That's the schedule for this week. I'll stop in to check the Posts and "bunch" my replies accordingly.

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Baltimore & Ohio (B&O)

Headquarters: Baltimore, MD

Mileage in 1950: 10,000

Locomotives in 1963: Diesel: 491

Rolling stock in 1963: Freight cars – 59,152 Passenger cars – 654

Principal routes in 1950:

Jersey City, NJ (New York)-Baltimore, MD-Pittsburgh, PA-Chicago
Washington, DC-Point of Rocks, MD
Cumberland, MD-Cincinnati, OH-St. Louis, MO
Detroit, MI-Toledo, OH-Cincinnati
Hamilton, OH-Beardstown, IL
Pittsburgh-Buffalo & Rochester, NY
Akron-Cleveland, OH
Midland City, OH-Columbus, OH-Pittsburgh

Passenger trains of note:

Ambassador (Baltimore-Detroit)
Capitol Limited (Jersey City-Washington-Chicago)
Cincinnatian (Detroit-Cincinnati; later, Baltimore-Washington-Cincinnati)
Columbian (Washington-Chicago)
Diplomat (Jersey City-Washington-St. Louis)
Metropolitan Special (Washington-St. Louis)
National Limited (Jersey City-Washington-St. Louis)
Royal Blue (Jersey City-Washington)
Shenandoah (Jersey City-Washington-Chicago)

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

More on the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad (B&O) of the Fallen Flags from The Official Guide of the Railways - Aug 1956

Thrilled travelers tell us “There’s nothing like the view from B&O’s STRATA-DOME” ….. Route your passengers via B&O and they’ll sing your praises too

Passengers traveling in a B&O Strata-Dome marvel at the thrilling panorama and natural beauty of the ever-changing scenery.

FLOODLIGHTS AT NIGHT

Powerful floodlight beams provide a novel view of the landscape after dark.

This exclusive B&O service between Washington and Chicago is offered at no charge!

Strata-Dome Dieseliners between

CHICAGO – AKRON – PITTSBURGH – WASHINGTON

The Capitol Limited (All Pullman) – The Columbia (Deluxe-Coach) – The Shenandoah* (Pullman and Coach)

THROUGH SERVICE TO AND FROM BALTIMORE, WILMINGTON, PHILADELPHIA AND NEW YORK.

*On the Shenandoah, Strata-Dome is operated on alternate dates. Available only to Pullman passengers on the Shenandoah.

BALTIMORE & OHIO RAILROAD

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Outstanding! I'm just now catching my breath from scrolling previous posts, new pix, and visiting new "sites" made available by our stalwart membership.[^] Tom, what can I say about the Kcity "album" that hasn't already been lauded by all who have seen it? To say that it jarred my memory banks would be the "understatement of the year." I don't have the words to descibe my full appreciation. Let me say only, thanks friend for a "job well done." This is really "my day" because 4 of the B. & O. trains listed on Fallen Flags are "runs" that I made several times (Baltimore- -Chicago). What (premarital) memories!!! Cindy, make it a Wurtzburger Lager in my personal Stein; the one with the brass double eagle and hinged pewter cover, if you will please.[tup] You're lookin' great kiddo. Oh, hi [C=:-)] Nick, back from rehearsal so soon?[:-^]

Glad to hear that Saturdays (October) will continue to hono(u)r a great old tradition. It would be a shame to allow that eerie feeling of someone "looking-over-your-shoulder" to spoil "time honored" traditions and the attending fun. Rob, I'm not trying to rush anything on more pix. I just let my enthusiasm over-run my good manners from time to time. Dave, some great ideas and meaningful dialogue you send our way. The mid week photo session of layouts, etc. should be of interest to modelers and non modelers alike. Who among us can't appreciate the labo(u)rs of our Colleagues? Of course, this means that I must embark on an assingment about which, I know next to nothing...DUH![:I] Also, I need to update with new pix of changes and "improvements" I've made. My Pike will never be "finished" as such.[:O] Some "apparition from the past" will invaraiably over take my interest for something already "finished" and: CRASH! "There goes the neighborhood!"[swg]

Pete, just a thumbnail on the Santa Fe's history may provide some answers to your question. The Spanish Mission and trading post (Santa Fe, N.M.) was well established long before the U.S. claimed it in 1846 after the War with Mexico. Even before Cyrus Holliday ever began building his railroad (Charter 1859, construction 1886) the "Santa Fe Trail" was an established trade route west from Independence, MO. to Santa Fe, Old Mexico. Two cities in Kansas, Atchison and Topeka were the original name for the "R.R." but with further government land grants and private financing, the name "Santa Fe" was added thus: A.T. S.F.[tup] Nearly all of this "action" was near and around the present K.C., MO. area. There is much more colorful history including R.R. (shooting) wars between A.T.S.F. Southern Pacific and the D. & R.G. (later D. & R.G.W.) for ROW through New Mexico. It makes for a very good "read."[:D]

Okay, I know I'm leaving some replies op-end but I'll catch you up on later posts, okay?[swg] Right Boris, go ahead...Go ahead! BINK, tinkle tinkle. OUCH! Gadfrey Daniel, oh well, its not his fault. I forgot my Stein was resting on the bell frame![:(!] No Cindy, I'll clean it up.[bow] See you's soon.

[West Coast S]

Golly good for Tom .. We are mission critical...Morning Nick, TrolleyBoy and all the rest of the gang.

There was specific quiries to my post of yesterday , so permit me to address thm first.
Who in tarnation made this coffee? Boris, you haven't been experminting with fire and dirt again? Spot of the real Juan Valdez please......

Nick..
Indeed the AT&SF orginally termintated in, of all places, Santa Fe, NM. The line was reduced to branch line status when the line was extended west around 1890 or so, bypassing its namesake in favor of a shorter, more direct route. Unsure of its current status, or if still intact, even money that , BNSF is no longer the owner due to SF selling or abandoning most secondary trackage in Arizona and New Mexico during the 1980s. A number of years the Spanish Style depot in Santa Fe was torched by vandals while awaiting a reuse decision, it had just been nominated for Historical Status, shame indeed.

TrolleyBoy.... That video producer is a new one to me, thought, I hunted them down pretty good. I've got a co-worker who has considerable video editing experience, i'll need his services to transfer several hours of raw, 16mm footage of the Sacramento Northern, near as I can determine it was taken in the late 40s. To real, my first venture into the world of railfan medium.

Tom.. Glad to see you back in the spirit, I knew that Boris hug was just what you needed.

Casino news, Tom I blew your eight to get one hundred at the Rio, is that ok? I suspect some questionable young female was vying for my attention at the blackjack table.. the kind that enjoys the men paying for her eveing.....I'm a astute person so I don't know why she thought I was so guilible to fall for her sad tell of woe....


Lunch on me for the next three hours, belly up and enjoy.. Bong..bong..clang, I see Boris is awake

Catch you again at the conclusion of my staff meeting
Dave [8D]

[siberianmo]

Encor – Encor – Encor! Just for Ted ……… [swg] [tup][tup][tup]

More on the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad (B&O) of the Fallen Flags from The Official Guide of the Railways - Aug 1956


B&O DIESEL-ELECTRIC FEATURE TRAINS

CAPITOL LIMITED – COLUMBIAN – SHENANDOAH
Between Chicago, Pittsburgh, Washington and the East

NATIONAL LIMITED – DIPLOMAT – METROPOLITAN
Between St. Louis, Cincinnati, Washington and the East

THE AMBASSADOR
Between Detroit, Washington and Baltimore

THE ROYAL BLUE
Between Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia and New York

STRATA-DOME CARS*
On 3 Fine Trains

CAPITOL LIMITED – COLUMBIAN – SHENANDOAH
Chicago – Akron – Pittsburgh – Washington
Baltimore – Wilmington – Philadelphia – New York

(* In service between Chicago and Washington)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day Boyz!

I've been in the back room, checking out the Cardinals beating up on the Padres 8-2 in the 8th inning of their first of five Playoff Game. 'Round mid-Continent USA, the St. Louis Cardinals are in a word - adored. There's something about baseball in St. Louis - really mean that. I've lived in a lot of places; grew up in NYC when we had three - count 'em - three major league teams (Dodgers - Giants - Yankees) - lived in Boston - called Cincinnati my "home of record" for most of my military career - final assignment was in SoCal with the Dodgers - Angels and Padres. Just never have seen the likes of the spirit for the game in these parts. It's truly something special. [tup]

Ted How pleased I am that you found this iteration of Fallen Flags so special! My hope has been to at least "flick the switch" of at least one of our number with these Posts. Your happiness made MY day! Thanx ...... [swg] [tup][tup]

Also, the album pix for the KCity trip with Pete was a labor, but worth it. As can be seen, I enjoyed the day, got some railroadin' in and of course made a new friend! [tup][tup]

Dave Are you saying that "my fiver" got you one hundred on number 8 [?] [wow][yeah] Awwwwwwwright. We'll take you up on the free lunch until 4 PM (Central). [tup][tup]

I recall one time in one of the Casino's in Laughlin, NV - back in the days BEFORE it got over developed - I was at a Blackjack table, paying more attention to the gal next to me than the cards in front of me (happens!). It was about 2 AM - we were having a great conversation. She was winning big time, me holding my own. Oh well ...... no point in discussing this kinda stuff here! [}:)][:-,] Perhaps I'll fini***he story up in Toronto in May at our Rendezvous! [swg]

I'm going back to watch the game .... see ya later! [tup]

Cindy has the bar 'til Leon gets here - at 5 ......

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Trainnut484]

Good afternoon Tom and rest of the regulars. Cindy, I'll have my usual and a round for the house[:)]. Tom, another great pick for a fallen flag [tup]. The B&O has the prestigous place in history as the nation's first railroad to carry both passengers and freight. It was chartered on February 28, 1827, and completed in 1830. The B&O was an instant success, because freight rates were cheaper than the turnpike's (dirt roads of course), and offered faster service than the canals. It wasn't cheaper, but the shallow waters froze during the winter months thus handicapping canal service. Then, believe it or not, the B&O operated everyday EXCEPT Sunday, which was observed as the Sabbath day. I think all businesses operated thay way back then. Just a footnote, and I'm going [#offtopic] just a leeetlle bit, but I think this List of Rules of Store Clerks dated 1905 fills us in on operating practices then for businesses. Some of them are humorous. I think Rule 3 was shared in some form by the railroads.

1. This store must be opened at sunrise. No mistake. Open at 6:00AM summer and winter. Close about 8:30 or 9PM the year round.

2. Store must be swept and dusted, doors and windows opened, lamps filled and trimmed, chimneys cleaned, counters, base shelves, and showcases dusted, pens made, a pail of water and the coal must be brought in before breakfast, if there is time to do it and attend to all the customers who call.

3. The store is not to be opened on the Sabbath day unless absolutely necessary and then only for a few minutes.

4. Should the store be opened on Sunday the clerks must go in alone and get tobacco for customers in need.

5. Clerks who are in the habit of smoking Spanish cigars, being shaved at the barber's, going to dancing parties and other places of amusement, and being out late at night will assuredly give the employer reason to be overly suspicious of employee integrity and honesty.

6. Clerks are allowed to smoke in the store provided they do not wait on women while smoking a "stogie."

7. Each store clerk must pay not less than $5.00 per year to the church and must attend Sunday school regularly.

8. Men clerks are given one evening a week off for courting and two if they go to the prayer meeting.

9. After the 14 hours in the store, leisure hours should be spent mostly in reading.

Hard to imagine a world like that today.

Cindy, I'll have another Miller Lite, thanks.

Russell

[West Coast S]

Tom.... Ok I think i'm up to speed....

B&O, first charter railroad in America...Some of the cleanest-efficient steam designs, perveyers of the USRA series of standard steam, first USRA 2-8-2 was built for the B&O. Among the first to sample diesel power for passenger use. Aware of the importance of perserving it's history by founding the B&O museum, but alas, scrapped a set aside T Class Mountain and EM1 2-8-8-4 by mistake. Great choice Tom, brings back memories of being trackside and witnessing GP30's working coal up the Westside, just before complete Chessie takeover.


Today's topic is bit different then my usual:

Let's revisit Mission Bay on the SP in the days of steam


Mission Bay was located just south of the Southern Pacific's Third & Townsand Street station in San Francisco. Located within a wye, SP located a 110 foot turntable, garden tracks and six stall roundhouse and complete service facalities. Mission Bay was responsible for light repairs and running repairs for all motive power assigned to the commute fleet and served as a overflow shop for non- commute power and in addition, to being home base for several switchers that worked local industries

Mission Bay is best known as the home of the Daylights, GS-2,3,4,5's assigned to trains 98 & 99 the Coast Daylights, were serviced, washed and stagged on specially designated service tracks, Mission Bay was upgraded and improved specifficaly to service the new GS class in 1937.

Daylight crews had a crew lounge built to blatently announce to all their selection to Daylight service next to the garden tracks, complete with plant beds, fruit trees and paved brick walkways. Mission was capable of performing any level of repair, despite the demuntive surroundings and sparse resources. Once servicing was complete locomotives could be held or dispatched to storage tracks located at seventh and Harris Streets, at the approach to the station.

Skilled, selected personal would inspect each arriving GS or other power , perform any required service or running repairs. Hot wash with a kerosene bath, wipe down, steam clean the running gear, turn said engine via turntable or wye and be made ready to depart within three hours. Power used for other coast passenger trains, Lark and the mails for example, were likewise attended to by a assigned pool of Pacifics and Mountains in addition to the GS 4-8-4s that were kept in reserve.

The Mission Bay switcher was unique on the system and deserves mention:
One S12 0-6-0 assigned to hostler duties, was distingushed from all others by a unique Royal Blue boiler jacket, nickle plated rods and other refinements and was renowned for always being immaculate until replaced by diesels in 1942.

Mission Bay and the commute pool became a holdout for displaced steam by the mid 50s, power not normally associated with the Bay Area migrated off traditional districts
now assigned to diesels, to work off the remaining boiler time before retirement and scrapping. Displaced Cotton Belt 4-8-4's, MT2 class 4-8-2s, GS-1 4-8-4's were such examples of exotic power. Cab Forwards and SP Type 4-10-2's were assigned to Mission after Bayshore converted to diesel exclusively and West Oakland was reducing their facalities. The first time freight power was assigned to Mission.



Mission Bay performed it's final steam class 4 backshop repairs in 1957. Later that year the roundhouse was converted to maintain the Trainmasters.. By 1960 Mission Bay roundhouse would be closed with nearby Bayshore assuming maintaince responsibilities for the commute fleet. In 1961 the Mission Bay complex would be leveled and all trackage, except for the wye were removed. Today, the location of Mission Bay is buried under a mass of highway cloverleafs, Third & Townsand station and its associated trackage was torn out in 1975, fallen victim to the same highway project that forever erased any traces of Mission Bay, replaced by a more asture prefab station at Fourth & Townsand.

Dave

[Trainnut484]

Hello again Tom and all. Darn, I think my suspenders must've caught on to my stool again[:D]. Cindy, another Miller Lite please, and another round for the house...why not [:D]

A couple of more historical notes for the B&O. One of the first signs of the Civil War was on the B&O at Harper's Ferry Maryland on October 17, 1859. Captain Anderson, also known as John Brown, along with one hundred fifty men, stopped a train, and kept it from crossing the Potomac River.

President Lincoln had a passenger car built specially for him, BUT the only time he used it was during his own funeral. Lincoln's funeral train traveled on the B&O, departing Washington on April 21, 1865, and during the week long trip it stopped in Baltimore, Harrisburg, Philadelphia, New York, and other major cities along the way. At each stop, Lincoln's casket was removed from the car so mourners could pay their last respects. The funeral train's final stop was Springfield, Illinois.

Another Miller Lite please Cindy

Russell

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom Cindy and all.

A pint of Bathams and just in time for the free lunch [:)][tup].

Thanks TED and DAVE for the info on the SANTA FE. Any more on the railroad wars would be much appriciated.

My wife to be took me to Santa Fe in November 2002. As a suprise she had booked us on the railroad in Santa Fe. I think it must be a tourist railroad. We had a trip out in a DOME CAR to milepost 2 and returned to Santa Fe on a Flat Car. The locomotive was Santa Fe Southern Diesel #93. I am afraid I do not know what type [*^_^*] I have my notes but can't find the photos over here(I know where the set is in England[%-)].)
The scenery was something very new to me.

TROLLEYBOY ROB I have some more info on the Immingham Electric Tramway .It opened in 1912 and closed in1961.I have not been able to find who built the cars,but I have found this web-site that has some photos.
http://www.leytransport.i12.com/imtram.htm
One car has been saved and is at the National Tramway Museum in Crich Derbyshire.
http:www.tramway.co.uk/smx/cms/home
I hope this is helpful.
[tup].

TOM I wonder if there is any photos of the Floodlights on the B& O in action on a moving train[?]. Reading these Fallen Flags it is amazing how many named trains called at St Louis.

Well the lunch was delicious thanks DAVE[tup].
See you soon PETE.

[Trainnut484]

Darn suspenders..aaarrrgghhhhh!

Ok Cindy I guess I'll have another one....this time a sandwich too.

Hello again Tom et all

Pete, the tourist railroad you rode on there in Santa Fe was the Santa Fe Southern. It is or was partly owned (I don't know if he still has part ownership) by TV actor Michael Gross (Family Ties, Tremors, and other shows). He is a Santa Fe fan and an award winning HO modeler. This site tells more about the Santa Fe Southern and Michael Gross's affection for the Santa Fe in greater detail:

http://members.aol.com/shadoemagic/mgross/mgtrains.htm

Now, let's try this leaving thing again...sheesh.

Russell

[Anonymous]

And the good input on the B. & O. just keeps rolling in, doesn't it? Its certainly well deserved recognition from a historical view, and a whole lot more. First, Tom, let me "wet my whistle" with a Crown 'n' fresh soda, please. So long Cindy, see ya tomorrow. Yes, the B. & O. was the "road" of preference in the early days of passenger service. Their schedules to St. Louis and Chicage, et al. were not the fastest but (believe it or not) speed was not the primary value from the "turn of the century" until well after W.W. I. No, it was luxury: personal services, customer courtesy, dining excellence, cleanliness and even artistic appointments in natural woods, leather, fine carpentry, etc.

People of those times still attended Symphony concerts, cooked gourmet meals at home, hand polished their flatware and maintained their homes and private pocessions so they should last for generations to come. If you read Russell's Post on the 9 commandments for employees, you will see for yourself just what a different world that was. Employers (for good or ill) took on the duties of moral "chaperons" toward their staff. They wanted nothing to "tarni***heir good name" in the community. The railroads were no exception toward their employees and maybe even a "touch" more severe.

Hold the presses[:O], I need to make a "correction." Sorry Nick, the mistake of suggesting "mid-week" photos of member's layouts was unintentional. That was to your credit. Tom, thanks for the encore.[tup] Those blue and gray streamlined beauties have a special place in my rememberances of much better trains in a much, much better time to be traveling.[^] I guess we are all anticipating October 12th for our 6 month celebration. It isn't the number of Posts or even that "Our" Place has prospered for as long as it has. No, we celebrate because each of us finally found "safe refuge" from the bombast and bitterness from threads bent on false prestige, snobbery and "nit picking" to the extreme.[V] The strength of this "thread" isn't measured in numbers. I hope it never will be. The "elegance is in its simplicity," we all love our trains and just enjoy the heck out of sharing with those who desire the same.[2c] Okay Boris, I purchased a new Stein and all is forgiven and forgotten.[^] However, to be on the safe side, I'll ring the bell this time...ping, ping...you changed out the clapper again, I see[:(!] G'night all.

[Anonymous]

Oh my gosh, I plumb forgot! I was looking for "The Clock" in Union Station and saw a new one but not the old traditional one of "Meet you under the Clock" fame. Russell and Tom probably recall the landmark I refer to? See ya tomorrow.

[passengerfan]

Good evening Tom Tom for a quick CR and a round for the house. Have to get ready for mid-term exam on Friday.
Just had to add a note on the lights atop the B&O domes they were actually locomotive headlights not floodlights. Their were four headlights placed ahead of the dome at different angles to provide the widest lighted area possible. When the trains entered populated areas at night the dome lights were turned off so as not to startle motorists or the drunks staggering home from the local bars. They were the only domes equipped with lights for night time viewing. The five B&O domes were three Budd built those operated in the CAPITOL LIMITED and SHENANDOAH and two Pullman Standard buit domes for the COLUMBIAN. On the forward bulkhead of the P/S domes at the head of the aisle was a speaker a speedometer, clock, temperature gauge and Barometer. These were the only domes to have all of these features. Thw Budd domes were originally built for the C&O CHESSIE the train that never was and would have been used as family room cars on this daylight streamliner. The B&O remodeled the cars for sleeping car use after purchase and they featured 5 Roomettes 1 single bedroom and 3 compartments. The COLUMBIAN domes were 5550 HIGH DOME and 5551 SKY DOME. The Budd domes were 7600 MOONLIGHT DOME assigned to SHENANDOAH and 7601 STARLIGHT DOME and 7602 SUNLIGHT DOME assigned to the CAPITOL LIMITED.

[siberianmo]

Evenin’ Guys!

Looks like I’ve got quite a bit to catch up and comment on, eh [?] What a complete afternoon and early evening this has been for ”Our” Place. Great interaction, the “return” of some familiar names, and of course, inclusiveness in thet Posts (well, for the most part!).

Let me address the last, first:

passengerfan Al Nice of you to stop by. We’ve had quite a few Fallen Flags and other interesting “stuff” since you were last in. Just “plug” in the page number you want to “go” to in the URL (above) and you can catch up really fast ….

Now – the information I Posted regarding the B&O advertisement was taken verbatim from my source of information, The Official Guide of the Railways – Aug 1956. To quibble over whether one should call the lights “headlights” or “floodlights” seems to trivialize the point of the Post. I seriously doubt whether the people who put that ad together were all that bothered ….

What you provided regarding the amplifying information, as always, provides a greater depth than is possible from the sources I have available, and perhaps anyone else who frequents this place of ours! You, Sir, are the Oracle of this Thread! Thanx! [tup]

Boris Ring that Bell – with the “proper” clapper! Al is buying! [yeah][wow]

Now to the beginning:

Trainnut484 Russell Nice to see you again. One thing I must ask right off, is did you see the Fallen Flag on the AT&SF that I posted this weekend [?] I don’t recall a comment from you – if you did, my apologies.

Thanx for the additional info on the B&O, no doubt you are making Ted’s ancient heart go pitty-patter! [swg]

That list of rules for store clerks is great! It’s surely something worth hanging on to. Some of us recall the times when Sundays really were cherished – and legally restricted for business activity. Of course there were exceptions, like Pharmacies and movie theatres! No doubt a few others – but I’m a “late comer,” in that all the changes quickly overtook us in the 1950’s to present times. Back in the 40’s however, Sundays were “hands off.” Something quite nice about that, in my opinion, that is! [swg]

West Coast S Dave

Thanx to you too regarding the additional B&O info …. Seems this particular Fallen Flag has really struck a positive note. [tup]

That’s quite a bit of information on Mission Bay, you are to be commended (again!). Well done. Didn’t have the foggiest that it is home of the Daylights …. But now we all know! [swg] You guys from California are really providing some wonderful insights ….. the differences in “styles” are actually complimentary. If I were an “editor,” I’d have the two of you working together, with me in the middle – just to keep it “on track!” [swg]

Russell [yeah] That “attraction” between one’s suspenders and bar stools has caused many a man some “grief” at home – late for supper, etc. [swg]

Thanx for the “history lesson” regarding President Lincoln’s funeral train, et al. Nicely done. [tup]

pwolfe Pete

Appreciate those URL’s that you provided. Some nice looking “stuff” and undoubtedly Rob will salivate over all of ‘em! [swg]

My guess is that Al will know the whereabouts of photo’s of the B&O floodlights/headlights …….

Theodorebear Ted

This has been a Banner Day hasn’t it [?] The B&O surely has resonated well with the guys. I think this Fallen Flag has generated by far the most responses and additional info of the 15 that I’ve Posted thus far. [yeah] 15 of ‘em!

Your comments are very much appreciated and in a way pretty much along the lines of what we read from BudKarr BK yesterday. [yeah] We’ve got a special bunch of guys ‘round here and it’s fine with me if we remain “as is.” But, no one or nothing stays the same. We just have to roll with the changes and ensure that our “core interests” remain uppermost with the Postings. The idea is and has been, Classic Trains while having some fun discussing them! [tup]

I have to yield to Russell regarding the clock you referred to at KCity’s Union Station. I’m not sure that I’ve ever seen it or know where it “should” be.

Okay – looks like I caught up …..

So, I’m gonna watch the Yankees and Angels in their opening playoff game on one of the three large screen TV’s in the back…..

Leon has the bar! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Trainnut484]

Hello again Tom and all. Leon, I'll have my usual. This time I'm sans suspenders so a belt is doing well. Kinda hard to catch it on my stool [;)]. Tom, nice info on the Santa Fe. They operated more passenger trains than what you listed, and I would be here all night and two pages on the thread talking about them. Too bad I came along at the end of a great era in Santa Fe service. The Santa Fe ran their varnish with great pride and service up to the last day. I believe I did mention several pages back about Santa Fe prohibiting Amtrak from using "Chief" in the train name until they improved service.

Ted, I'm sure that is the original clock in it's appropiate place in Union Station. It's probably the best condition than it has ever been [(-D]. The 9 commandments of store clerks in 1905 came from my Business class book. It was mentioned as how businesses operated back then in the Human Resources chapter. I'm glad they don't work that way today. The B&O history info I mentioned above is from a research report on the history of American railroads I did for an English class (yes I did get an A for the grade). The whole report itself would take up four or five pages here in the thread, but I'll spare everyone[:D]

Another ML please Leon. No Boris, you can't use my suspenders for bungy jumping from the roof. I don't think that's listed as workman's comp in Tom's employee's benefit package. Thanks Leon.

Russell

[pwolfe]

Hi tom and all.

A pint of Bathams. and a round please for the great posts today .

Many thanks RUSSELL for the Web- Site on Michael Gross and the Santa Fe [tup].

The part on well known people who are Model Railroaders was very interesting. I never knew Winston Churchill was a fan.It reminded me of a story about his funeral train.He was buried at the family home in Oxfordshire. He was taken there by special train hauled by his namesake locomotive Battle of Britain class #34051 from London Waterloo. Now the normal station for Oxford is the Great Western's Paddington.
The legend is that if the French leader Charles de Gaulle died before Churchill .Churchill's funeral train would depart from Paddington but if De Gaulle outlived him Churchill would make him go through Waterloo(named after the site of France's defeat to the British) . I do not how much truth is in this.

I'll have one for the road LEON thanks PETE.

[nickinwestwales]

Mornin` Gents-on the fly again I`m afraid,somebody seems to have stolen several hours out of my day.......how that work ? PETE-got a pic of the Mogul,just need to edit-Had also heard the Churchill anecdote-beieve it true as he was known for deep dislike of De Gaulle, back to U.S loco`s in Britain-will try and find pix of narrow gauge war-surplus Baldwins and Alco`s plus Southern 0-6-0 Yankee tanks BK-got pix of A.P.T & T.G.V,[4:-)]TOM-set the boys up with whatever they want-I`m off to take layout pix,look up traditional Canadian recipes--oh yes,also dig out 100` of hedge-bank and hump 80 half-round fence posts across the property [^] oh frabjous day ! will get back to the rest of you when time permits,be lucky,nick[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Mornin’ Guys! Mid-week already and it’s time again for the “countdown” to the weekend! [yeah] Looks like The Mentor Village Bakery pastry case is chock full of fresh goods – the coffee’s hot ‘n fresh, and the light breakfast menu just needs orderin’ …. [swg]

Info for the Day:

Comin’ Events:

Saturday, Oct 8th : OKTOBERFEST!
Sunday, Oct 9th Sunday Photo Posting Day!
Wednesday, Oct 12th: The 6th month Anniversary of the creation of ”Our” Place.

INDEX

Index pages for Fallen Flags, etc.

Generic URL: Just insert the index page in place of “106,” copy ‘n paste ‘n “go,”

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=106&TOPIC_ID=35270

-or- insert the index page in the address portion of this page (at the top).

106 – SP
106 – MoPac
108 – WP
109 – Frisco
112 – CNR (passenger ops)
112 – CNR Super Continental Time Table
112 – Heralds of the Fallen Flags
113 - Passenger Train Nostalgia #1 “Start ups” 1800’s & early 1900’s
114 – ACL
115 – SCL
116 - D&RGW
117 – Passenger Train Nostalgia #2 Vista-Dome sleeper observation-lounge
118 – RI
119 – D&H
120 - PRR
121 – Passenger Train Nostalgia #3 Canadian Pacific Hotels & Lodges
122 – NYC
124 – A Tale of Classic Trains – BC Rail RDC trip
124 – UP (passenger ops)
125 – AT&SF
127 – B&O
127 – B&O Strata-Dome ad
127 – B&O Encor! ad

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 00:47:04 (126) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(2) barndad Doug Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 06:16:54 (126)

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: -04 Oct 2005, 07:28:27 (127) reply to barndad, etc.

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 07:34:21 (127) Fallen Flag B&O

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 10:42:08 (127) Fallen Flag B&O – Strata-Dome

(6) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 12:32:35 (127)

(7) West Coast S Dave Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 12:47:29 (127)

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 14:03:08 (127) Fallen Flag B&O – Encor!

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 14:29:30 (127) reply to Theodorebear & West Coast S

(10) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 15:37:43 (127) B&O and Rules for Store Clerks

(11) West Coast S Dave Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 15:46:22 (127) B&O and Mission Bay

(12) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 16:03:22 (127) B&O, cont’d

(13) pwolfe Pete Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 16:13:45 (127)

(14) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 16:39:57 (127)

(15) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 18:08:54 (127)

(16) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 18:27:31 (127)

(17) passengerfan Al Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 18:50:14 (127) B&O info

(18) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 19:53:18 (127) Catch up

(19) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 04 Oct 2005, 20:24:45 (127)

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Mornin' Guys!

Some catching up I see for the late night and early morning visitors....

Trainnut484 Russell [yeah] Undoubtedly there's a wealth of info out there regarding the AT&SF. Go ahead and Post some of it ... that's the idea of these Fallen Flags - to generate interest and discussion. [tup] The info contained in the majority of the Fallen Flags comes from my library of hardcovered RR books (modest collection, really). If you'll note the "headings," the passenger trains are listed as

QUOTE: Passenger trains of note:

Thereby leaving the door open for further elaboration ....

I can relate to that comment about coming along a bit too late .... although we have a difference in generations, I too have those days when I "wish" that my adulthood could have occurred back when the streamlilners were commonplace. But then again, given the world's situation, perhaps I'd never have made it back from Normandy or an island invasion in the Pacific. Something to ponder, eh [?]

pwolfe Pete Love that story regardng Sir Winston and General De Gaulle! I'd prefer to think of it as absolutely "on the mark," given what history has told us about either character. Very humorous indeed. Thanx! [tup][tup]

Nick [C=:-)] Good to see ya 'round here at the start of the day - yes - we open at 6 AM, but that's for All time zones - (don't ask me how we do that! [swg]) Anyway, you were properly entered ..... [tup]

Just so we're on the same wavelength regarding pix - I'd prefer to keep 'em all for Sunday Photo Posting Day!. Layout dialogue is another thing and as you indicated, we can make it mid-week - your call. Problem with Posting pix at other times is that we always have a few who (a) don't read - and - (b) don't care to read! Follow me on this [?] [swg]

Good luck with the photo's and I'm sure that my Email will "signal" the arrival! [tup]

Okay guys - Cindy will have the bar (don't you just love that thought [?]) [:-,][}:)] at 9 AM, until 5 PM, when Leon the Night Man comes in. I'll be 'round, just to check on the Posts and keep things rollin'

See y'all later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific (CM&StP) – The Milwaukee Road

Headquarters: Chicago, IL

Mileage: 1950: 10,664

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 803
Electric: 93

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 42.325
Passenger: 588

Principal routes in 1950:

Chicago-Minneapolis via Milwaukee and Columbus, WI
New Lisbon-Woodruff, WI
Minneapolis-Seattle & Tacoma via Spokane, WA
Minneapolis & St. Paul-Calmar, IA via Austin, MN
La Crescent, MN-Wessington Springs, SD
Rondout, IL (Chicago)-Madison, WI
Watertown, WI-Rapid City, SD
Chicago-Omaha
Manilla, IA-Sioux Falls, SD
Marion-Ottumwa, IA
Sturtevant, WI-Kansas City
La Crosse, WI-Sabula, IA
Des Moines-Spencer, IA
Chicago-Terre Haute, IN
Milwaukee-Ontonagon, MI via Green Bay, WI

Passenger trains of note:

Afternoon Hiawatha (Chicago-Milwaukee-St. Paul & Minneapolis)
Arrow (Chicago-Omaha & Sioux Falls)
Chippewa-Hiawatha (Chicago-Channing, MI)
Copper Country Limited (Chicago-Green Bay-Calumet, MI jointly with DSS&A railroad)
Midwest Hiawatha (Chicago-Omaha & Sioux Falls)
Morning Hiawatha (Chicago-Milwaukee-Minneapolis)
Olympian (Chicago-Twin Cities-Seattle & Tacoma)
Olympian Hiawatha (Chicago-Twin Cities-Seattle U& Tacoma; replaced Olympian)
Pioneer Limited (Chicago-Milwaukee-St. Paul & Minneapolis)
Sioux (Chicago-Madison-Rapid City, SD)
Southwest Limited (Milwaukee & Chicago-Kansas City
Tomahawk (Chicago-Minocqua, WI)
Varsity (Chicago-Madison)

Of note: From 1955-1971, Milwaukee Road operated the Chicago-Omaha segment of UP’s “Overland” streamliners including the City of Denver, City of Portland, City of Los Angeles, City of San Francisco and the Challenger.


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[nickinwestwales]

Well,Lady Luck,she smile today-can`t get fence posts `til tomorrow-so looks like I can steal some of that time back[^], -Looks like I`ve pulled down the breakfast shift,so-coffee`s hot,fresh & untouched by Boris-the tea urn is showing about 80psi,Mentor Bakery have outdone themselves on the pastries and the hot traysare groaning beneath the weight of bacon,sausages,devilled kidneys,black pudding et al. Tuck in fella`s-winter draws on (?) O.K-whilst you lot are quietly grazing I`ll try and decipher the jumble of hieroglyphs,random cursives and disjointed scrawl that constitutes my list of reply points,apologies to anyone overlooked MANAGER TED-ta for Calvin+Hobbes-The more things change the more they stay the same..! Designated Drivers are without doubt chosen men and as you know,revered by dipso muso`s everywhere. Hope your other diversions don`t prove too troublesome-now get that camera rolling [swg] [4:-)]TOM,again-fine camera work-has taken time to work through,hence delay in mention-absolute ton of top-notch "urban rail" detail for modelling refs. as well as fine train portraits-will have to zoom in on googlearth map thingy -see how close I can get-It`s not real-time so might even find you & PETE.....cute little depot building too PETE-data on M.R yankees slow but sure-apparently 57 in total from Baldwin & Schenectady (?)-Ordered due to lack of domestic capacity-poss. due to foundrys etc starting to re-gear for munitions work (WW1 anticipated well before the event) Seem to remember reading that they were delivered to Derby Works as "kits of parts" and assembled on site. Have it in mind that they were used in mineral traffic around the Nottingham-Derby coal fields but not reliable memory. Other "negative exports" were the 0-6-0t designed by U.S.Army transportation corps purchased by S.R. in 1946 (13 listed in 1962 with 1 break in number seq.) At least one 60cm gauge Alco 2-6-2t (Ffestiniog Rly`s "Mountaineer") and poss. as many as 2 dozen Baldwin 60 cm 4-6-0t,of which there are survivors--More as I get it ROB-nice stuff on operations around SW Ontario[tup][^]-you know the way to a chaps heart !! (straight through his ribcage according to missisnick..hmm.) have a postcard pic of Southern Ontario #4200 ( ex S.P GP9e ) at Cainsville ,Nov2001-lovely clean machine and quietly stylish livery-also enjoyed T.H & B selection-must find a way of sneaking a diverted working onto my C.N metals-that livery is to good to miss[swg] right the next 2 notes make no sense whatsoever,so onto-DOUG-man,that car looks to be a major labour of love-does everything have to be fabricated to order ?--Easy ,even for enthusiasts like ourselves,to overlook the sheer volume of effort required to get these old ladies up and about again,and keep them that way RUSSELL & DAVE -thanks for opening up those Western roads for us-I know precious little about my road of choice and less again about the others Good Stuff[tup][tup] O.K-that looks like most of it,best be about my chores for a bit,Boris is due for a scrape down and the barmaids require oiling & polishing N.B-will you please stop leaving boxes of live bait in the fridge-you`ve all seen the quality of the help round here. Back for more later,time permitting ,with some manner of layout profile (History-there to here seems a promising start-point) enjoy the day guys,nick[C=:-)]

[nickinwestwales]

[4:-)]TOM-crossed in the ether again !! Concur R.E photo`s-might try to scan in some track diags. see if they take,take care,nick[C=:-)]

[Anonymous]

That's what we like to see, plenty of action. And, early in the week makes it really a "red letter" start for the promise of setting a 7 day record. Just a "light breakfast" today with plenty of "Joe" and a rasberry Danish, please.[^] PHATTH! Not that kind of "rasberry" Boris...Cretin![alien] Passengerfan Al, I would be the last to add or subtract on your commentary. Now, I may be mistaken but I seem to remember flood head lights on the Great Northern Empire Builder dome cars through the Cascades. As I recall, it was a black, rainy night and the "lights" did little more than amplify the sheets of rainfall, "cascades" indeed.[:D] I've no doubt that B. & O. was the first, however. Wow, the 3 trains you mentioned are the trains I enjoyed so much while traveling home for Xmas leave while in the service. That's a real "warm and fuzzy" for me. All too soon it fell into an endurance marathon with trains running as much as 6 to 7 hours late, both ways. When the diner's cupboards are bare and club car libations spent; its time to make other plans.[:(]

Hey Rob, how 'bout pwolfe's URL and the really neat links? I must've been an hour or more scrolling, surfing and savouring this data.[tup] Thanks Pete, this is a treaure trove and a "keeper." Trainnut, you are probably correct about the "Clock" being the original. I was looking for the very ornate casting from which it was suspended. It looked nearly like a vest pocket watch fob. Hey, The Kansas City Star October 31, 1999 ran a "special edition" (section 'U') on the reopening of Union Sta. on Nov. 10, 1999. There are 8 full pages of memorabilia on the rehab and history. Perhaps it is available from the Paper's archives? BTW Pete, you don't have to spare me from your essay on the B. & O., when and if you can find the time.[:-^] And yes, I agree, those days of nearly dictatorial powers of management over labor were "over-the-top" even then. However, did the pendulum swing too far later? Moot point![:O]

Barndad, it won't be long before even the diesel shop will be "colder than a well digger's..." What then? Your place looks inviting for the lil' Gobblins come Halloween. You can always tell them the treats are around back.[}:)] Nick, replacing a hedge with a privacy fence are you?[V] Will the Village "covens" allow such an insult to the environment? I had to "moonlight" a clandestine meeting with a landscape man to remove an orange tree from my own back yard. Hate orange juice! Its the worse thing ever happened to Stolichanya.[(-D] BTW, what are a "Southern Yankee 0-6-0 tanks?" Sounds like a "contradiction in terms."

Yes Tom, BK's comments are "along the lines" of many a statement made since before this thread's inception. I rather imagine we will hear variations on this theme for quite sometime in the future. I gotta "hit the road Jack!" Its Fall cleaning time now and soon the house windows will be thrust wide-open after 5 months of being sequestered in A.C.![xx(] Boris, outstanding job of standing on my Florsheims with your Boondoggers all morning. Now, if you will go "out standing," I'll take my leave, thanks.[:(!] Happy rails all.

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

Another fine start I see. Perhaps I should get to the responses, before they “stack up” on me ….

First – the Email

Thanx for your notes, Ted & Dave. Appreciate the support and as always, your interest in keeping this bar ‘n grill functioning the way it was intended. Thanx again! [tup][tup]

The Posts

Nick [C=:-)] Lady Luck may have smiled in your direction, but I had to mow the “south forty” this early AM and man was it ever wet. Made for a great time trying to bag it all. Oh well, what’s retirement for if one can’t complain about “duty” ‘round the home, eh [?] [swg]

Sorry, but I’ve lost a few pounds (18) these past several weeks – by design, and because of “meds.” Anyway, I’m trying to maintain my “new” waistline – so I’ll pass on those “heavy” menu choices, thanx! [swg]

I like that reference to Manager Ted and Calivn ‘n Hobbs! Works for me! [swg] Our local “bird cage liner” – AKA: local newspaper – has just begun reruns of the little brat ‘n his tiger. They say it will run about a month until they find something else to insert. They are all reruns, of course, but really entertaining stuff. The Cartoonist, Bill Watterson, appears to be the kinda guy that would fit in quite nicely ‘round here. Of course, we don’t know whether he has the foggiest regarding Classic Trains! [swg]

I’ve never really mastered the camera, whether it be 35mm or this digital thing of ours. Still locked in that “point ‘n shoot” mode, which of course is the kiss of death for digital photography – at least with my zillion dollar model. One nice thing is that if they don’t turn out the first time – zap ‘em – and try again. Now that’s the PLUS for digital as far as I’m concerned – given there is TIME for a “do over.”

Track plans would be an idea to pursue. I’d love to know HOW to create one of those for publication here. I’ve seen so many great looking ones, but don’t know how to do it. Sure, throw some bucks at it and I guess it could be accomplished. But I’m more interested in finding something simple and available on the net before investing money into something that is really a one time venture. Any ideas [?]

Manager Ted

Nice isn’t it [?] A crowded bar with the guys in synch, now that’s a good environment to be in. Only thing better would be to put some steel wheels on the place, hoist it onto the mainline, and call this a Tavern Car! [yeah][tup][tup]

Found this little “blurb” for you in one of my railroad books (The American Passenger Train):

QUOTE: One of the most widely appreciated improvements to passenger trains of the early 1930s was neither structural nor cosmetic, but “atmospheric.” Air-conditioning had made its Pullman Debut aboard 12-1 sleeper McNair in September 1929,and found another early proponent in the Baltimore & Ohio. B&O diner Martha Washington was the first mechanically air-conditioned car, and the B&O’s Columbian became America’s first completely air-conditioned train on May 24, 1931.

Being just my anal self, I researched the terms “railroad floodlights” and “railroad headlights.” The conclusion [?] Floodlights are for illuminating scenery and are in use with many dinner trains and referred to as such. Headlights are at the head of the train and illuminate what is up ahead. THE END! [swg]

Glad to see that Boris has taken such a “liking” to you and Dave Kinda keeps the bugger away from me ‘n the gals! [swg]. Those boondockers have steel toes, by the by, so watch out for ‘em. From the looks, it’s time to find him another pair (both LEFT) that are made for Cloven feet. [:O] [alien] I’ll have to check over at the Mentor Village Shoe Barn & Athletic Supporter Emporium, they seem to cater to the “odd ball” request.[;)]

Time to get back to the chores at hand ……..

See y’all later! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Knock,Knock.
Hello everyone.Tom.You may be surprised to see my face at the door but I need some help from one of your regulars.
I believe that Trolleyboy frequents this bar and it's his help I'm after.
Is it possible for you to find me some photos of a PCC car that cover 360 degrees.This will hopefully be my next G scale scratchbuilding project.Anyone that follows my scratchbuild pursuits will know that I build only from pictures (it's more fun).If a figure is in the picture,all the better(scale).
Thankyou,Troy.
ps. any chance of a quick Guinness?

[siberianmo]

Hello troybetts Troy and [#welcome] to "Our" Place. First drink is on us, so Guiness it is. [tup] Haven't had a word with you since our jousting match over on the Garden Railways forum .... [swg] Good for the system, now 'n then.

No, I'm not suprised by anyone who comes through either of our front doors - always welcome 'round here - we just ask 'em to check the 'agendas' on the porch! [swg]

trolleyboy Rob is not only of of our regulars, but he's a Charter Member of our cyber bar 'n grill and also has taken on the awesome responsibilitiies of Chandler of the Bar. I'm sure he will pick up on your inquiry and follow through with the information you've requested. Rob is by far the most interesting, entertaining and knowledgeable young man when it comes to the subject he loves the most - trolleys. You've made a friend, mate .... [tup]

Stop by any time .....

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Agenda has been checked and understood.The people here are proper train people anyway. I think Trolleyboy has visited my website before so he knows were I'm coming from!
Cheers.